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Thread: Upcoming A7rII

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Upcoming A7rII

    I'm hoping the new A7r stays w the 36MP sensor and just upgrades to IBIS, better AF and ergonomics like the A7II.

    That way the cost will stay more affordable.

    Let Sony produce a new A9 w 56MP sensor for those born wealthy.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Well, maybe add a silent shutter, or at least an EFCS option.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Yes. Absolutely.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Interestingly enough more high res files appear in flickr, size 9400 x 6300 is downloadable

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lokuochin/17191810710/

    Did my usual sniffing with unix "strings" command to find text like below still in highest res downloadable jpg. Not that this proves anything as anything can be faked, but the sharpness in the girls cool contact lens is quite ok.


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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Well, maybe add a silent shutter, or at least an EFCS option.
    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    Interestingly enough more high res files appear in flickr, size 9400 x 6300 is downloadable

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/lokuochin/17191810710/

    Did my usual sniffing with unix "strings" command to find text like below still in highest res downloadable jpg. Not that this proves anything as anything can be faked, but the sharpness in the girls cool contact lens is quite ok.


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    Don't want to pay 3 grand for the new body.


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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    It would be an instant buy for me IF Sony comes up with an upgrade program like Leica.

    A7r to A7r M2 will be just very easy and less painful. Otherwise, I will look for prices to drop at least 33% (~ 3-6 months after all the online reviewers hail it as the BEST ever! ).

    These product cycles are very very taxing and there is absolutely no enthusiasm at the moment.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It would be an instant buy for me IF Sony comes up with an upgrade program like Leica.

    A7r to A7r M2 will be just very easy and less painful. Otherwise, I will look for prices to drop at least 33% (~ 3-6 months after all the online reviewers hail it as the BEST ever! ).

    These product cycles are very very taxing and there is absolutely no enthusiasm at the moment.
    True.
    I'm all in if the price is 2k or less.
    I don't think their will be a trade-in program of that nature.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It would be an instant buy for me IF Sony comes up with an upgrade program like Leica.
    eBay offers a better trade-in program than Leica
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    These product cycles are very very taxing
    Wish-fulfillment fatigue?

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    Wish-fulfillment fatigue?
    Yes and no.

    I am very appreciative of what Sony have been doing since they entered the mirrorless arena. They did make real progress but it did also cost me a lot.

    Anything that builds on the superb A7s is welcome.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    eBay offers a better trade-in program than Leica
    There are some real people (like me) who simply are not very capable of selling stuff. For me, a trade-in is a better option.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Trade-in program has been done several times in the US. I don't know if they ever bring that to Europe.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by hiepphotog View Post
    Trade-in program has been done several times in the US. I don't know if they ever bring that to Europe.
    What kind of % of original retail price did they offer on digital camera bodies? Maybe I should offer to buy minty A7Rs.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    What kind of % of original retail price did they offer on digital camera bodies? Maybe I should offer to buy minty A7Rs.
    I would have bought 5 A7s at $300/piece.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    I just wish they get on with the announcements. I need to make some decisions on my game plan. Seriously if it's a A7II with a 36mpx sensor and same speed or better both my A7r and A7II are on the block. I'll back it up with a A6100 for a extra body. I actually liked the A6000 quite a bit.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I just wish they get on with the announcements. I need to make some decisions on my game plan. Seriously if it's a A7II with a 36mpx sensor and same speed or better both my A7r and A7II are on the block. I'll back it up with a A6100 for a extra body. I actually liked the A6000 quite a bit.
    My sentiments exactly. Get on w it.
    Hopefully next week.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Well my A7 is on the block no matter what. My A7R is already modded and its a keeper for those purposes.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    [QUOTE=HiredArm;639929]Well my A7 is on the block no matter what.

    My A7r is gone.
    I'm hoping I can afford the new version.
    If not I might go w the A7II.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Not sure about 59 Mp camera. I do most shootings hand held, the 59 MP is going to make this very tough. I would love an improved 36 MP camera primarily for this reason.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    Not sure about 59 Mp camera. I do most shootings hand held, the 59 MP is going to make this very tough. I would love an improved 36 MP camera primarily for this reason.
    Practically same pixel size as 24 MP APS-C, many people do just fine with those handheld. IBIS (assuming this hypethetical camera has one) will help too.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    Practically same pixel size as 24 MP APS-C, many people do just fine with those handheld. IBIS (assuming this hypethetical camera has one) will help too.
    Actually not. Try any 36 mp camera and its equivalent aps-c sensor camera.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It would be an instant buy for me IF Sony comes up with an upgrade program like Leica.

    A7r to A7r M2 will be just very easy and less painful. Otherwise, I will look for prices to drop at least 33% (~ 3-6 months after all the online reviewers hail it as the BEST ever! ).

    These product cycles are very very taxing and there is absolutely no enthusiasm at the moment.
    Vivek-I was not aware of a sensor degradation issue with Sony A7 sensors. What are you talking about?

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Vivek-I was not aware of a sensor degradation issue with Sony A7 sensors. What are you talking about?
    Lou, The sensor stack is too thick for any corrosion. It is the shutter. Nikon got the new and improved 36mp sensor with EFCS for their D810 from Sony. Usually, 2 years after Nikon get their sensor, it comes to Sony's own bodies. The new twist now is SSS (aka "IBIS").
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    Actually not. Try any 36 mp camera and its equivalent aps-c sensor camera.
    I have, quite extensively actually. I have about 8K shots on Nex-6 (16 MP APS-C) and over 12K on A7R that is pretty much exactly same pixel size. Other than mechanical shutter and longer shutter delay on the A7R no difference. Given that A7R sensor effectively is pretty much just placing 2 x Nex-6 sensors on vertical orientation next to each other how could there be any real difference? Even the sensor tech/generation in this case is pretty close.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    I have, quite extensively actually. I have about 8K shots on Nex-6 (16 MP APS-C) and over 12K on A7R that is pretty much exactly same pixel size. Other than mechanical shutter and longer shutter delay on the A7R no difference. Give that A7R sensor effectively is pretty much just placing 2 x Nex-6 sensors on vertical orientation next to each other how could there be any real difference? Even the sensor tech/generation in this case is pretty close.

    In theory, there should not be, but with 6 photogs who work for my company and my own personal experience shows that there is a difference. Even A7R shows shake more often than we care for, of course when used hand held. None of us are older than 40 before someone someone suggests age as a reason. Whatever be the case,in my personal opinion, I prefer an improved A7R than just an increase in MP. If you feel that everything is fine and need more MP, then great, it is what is likely going to be offered by Sony. I am just stating my personal preference and opinion.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    In theory, there should not be, but with 6 photogs who work for my company and my own personal experience shows that there is a difference. Even A7R shows shake more often than we care for, of course when used hand held. None of us are older than 40 before someone someone suggests age as a reason. Whatever be the case,in my personal opinion, I prefer an improved A7R than just an increase in MP. If you feel that everything is fine and need more MP, then great, it is what is likely going to be offered by Sony. I am just stating my personal preference and opinion.
    There is a real difference but it is not caused by pixel size; if everything else was equal a 16 MP APS-C shot is just center crop of the 36 MP FF shot. What is not equal then? Mechanical shutter and its vibration/lag are a big difference; I decided a year ago that A7R is gonna be my very last camera without the EFCS. I also have the A6000 and it is an easier camera to get tack sharp shots handheld without flash despite smaller pixel size due to vibration-free EFCS and way smaller shutter lag.

    Given the heat Sony has taken from shutter shock most people seem to assume that no matter the resolution a fully mechanical shutter is just not gonna do anymore. I'd take 36 MP EFCS camera rather than a 59 MP one with a mechanical shutter but if both have EFCS I see nothing that different in 59 MP sensor from the 24 MP APS-C I already have.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    Practically same pixel size as 24 MP APS-C, many people do just fine with those handheld. IBIS (assuming this hypethetical camera has one) will help too.
    Actually, with a smaller sensor you would use a shorter focal length for the same field of view so if pixel pitch is the same then field of view per pixel is wider which means less impact of any unsteadiness. I think. Did I get that right?

    I would love a 59 Mpx A7r2, simply for the reason that it's a configuration that today doesn't exist. More choice, more pressure on lens makers, more pressure on the competition. A lens that is reasonably good at resolving 59 Mpx would be awesome on 24 Mpx.

    Sony creating a trade-in program? Not likely. Leica is unique on the market in terms of customer loyalty, Sony is just a maker of consumer goods.

    An option to upgrading would be, you know, don't always get the latest camera.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    What kind of % of original retail price did they offer on digital camera bodies? Maybe I should offer to buy minty A7Rs.
    It would depend on the camera store that you do the trade-in. Sony would just give $250-$350 extra on top of what the store is going to pay you. I paid $2100 for my A7s new from Amazon last September by trading in a very old, very beaten up Canon 40D (got $150 for that camera+$350 on top I believe).

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Even if the price for a new A9 - which is the probably name for a 59 Mpix "A7R" - would cost 3k to 3,5k € I would buy it immediately. It is too tempting for me to get this res on a small chip , maybe even with 5 axis stabilization.
    And if the DR is ahead of Canon´s 5Ds/r (which I think it will be) then this is a winner.

    Just imagine what this camera will do with ART or Otus lenses, or our Zeiss Hartblei stuff (the 4/40 has 200 lp/mm, that will do).

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post

    An option to upgrading would be, you know, don't always get the latest camera.


    I would be very sceptical of a higher MP camera from Sony. The NEX-7 (A6000 is far better) and the A7r (host of issues not allowing the high MP to be taken advantage of).

    I upgraded from the A7r to the A7s- the best FF camera from Sony to date, for me.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Just imagine what this camera will do with ART or Otus lenses, or our Zeiss Hartblei stuff (the 4/40 has 200 lp/mm, that will do).

    Regards
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    In theory, yes. The bulk of the set up would make it very unappealing. Why not then use a Nikon that give better output from the same sensors than a less than optimal Sony camera? The Otii are available in Nikon F mount and none are available for Sony.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Actually, with a smaller sensor you would use a shorter focal length for the same field of view so if pixel pitch is the same then field of view per pixel is wider which means less impact of any unsteadiness. I think. Did I get that right?
    "Normalized" this way yes, that is correct. On the other hand if one maintains the same framing by taking picture from the longer distance would mean pitch/yaw shake would have bigger effect on smaller sensor etc.

    But since this line of convcersation started from 59 vs 36 MP FF things are even more clear. Unless there is a big negative side-effect like the lack of EFCS (Canon 5DS has no EFCS, but given their more analog sensors without on-sensor ADCs that is not very surprising) or big drop in per pixel quality in the increase of resolution the bigger is better: if all else fails downsample 59 MP to 36 MP and any discussion on the shake effects etc go away. And while downsampling you get a pile of nice side effects: eliminate/decrease Bayer-sensor artifacts, decrease noise, increase DR so the downsampled picture is likely to be better than "native" 36 MP one.

    To my the megapixels are like number of CPU cores in a PC or 420+ horsepower in my M3. Not needed daily, but nice to have in reserve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I would love a 59 Mpx A7r2, simply for the reason that it's a configuration that today doesn't exist. More choice, more pressure on lens makers, more pressure on the competition. A lens that is reasonably good at resolving 59 Mpx would be awesome on 24 Mpx.
    Fully agree. There already is a pile of lenses that can easily resolve more than 36 MP and higher res sensors push glass manufacturers out of their comfort zone to look for better solutions. For example for years there was this mantra on how awesome/supersharp almost all the Canon L glass or much all Leica glass are. Now put these in front of a higher res sensor, in comes reality check and R&D departments are more awake again.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    In theory, yes. The bulk of the set up would make it very unappealing. Why not then use a Nikon that give better output from the same sensors than a less than optimal Sony camera? The Otii are available in Nikon F mount and none are available for Sony.
    Otus + OVF-DSLR equals a serious pain to focus handheld wide open. I'm currently using APO Sonnar 135/2 smart-adapted on my A7R and it already works nice, supernice to focus. Now give me IBIS with stabilized EVF-zoom and a 59 MP sensor + EFCS; that would be even better.

    Yes there is bulk, but there would be even more bulk if I had the APO on a DSLR. As for 36 MP Nikons on a tripod, the lack of tilt screen is also big usability minus for anyone with back issues.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Hi Vivek

    I use the Sony A7R with these lenses already (right now doing an ART test for digit! magazine here in Germany) and I cannot state "problems" which are more than the same res 40Mpix from my P45+ I used for years. The output is pretty much on par, but the Sony is 5x faster and giving me all the needed modern camera features.

    Nobody knows what the new body will use for Soft - and Firmware, Probably Sony will use a much faster Imageprocessor and will drive this body into the 12-14 bit uncompressed range with a new arw format extension. (that´s what I would do before I´d launch such a camera).

    It will still be cheaper to make than a Nikon with all the mirror stuff (which is useless for focusing anyway at that res, because nobody will be able to do that manually with an optical viewfinder.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi Vivek

    I use the Sony A7R with these lenses already (right now doing an ART test for digit! magazine here in Germany) and I cannot state "problems" which are more than the same res 40Mpix from my P45+ I used for years. The output is pretty much on par, but the Sony is 5x faster and giving me all the needed modern camera features.

    Nobody knows what the new body will use for Soft - and Firmware, Probably Sony will use a much faster Imageprocessor and will drive this body into the 12-14 bit uncompressed range with a new arw format extension. (that´s what I would do before I´d launch such a camera).

    It will still be cheaper to make than a Nikon with all the mirror stuff (which is useless for focusing anyway at that res, because nobody will be able to do that manually with an optical viewfinder.

    Greetings from Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    Otus + OVF-DSLR equals a serious pain to focus handheld wide open. I'm currently using APO Sonnar 135/2 smart-adapted on my A7R and it already works nice, supernice to focus. Now give me IBIS with stabilized EVF-zoom and a 59 MP sensor + EFCS; that would be even better.

    Yes there is bulk, but there would be even more bulk if I had the APO on a DSLR. As for 36 MP Nikons on a tripod, the lack of tilt screen is also big usability minus for anyone with back issues.
    Agree with manual focus being easier with an EVF (the smart folks at Zeiss overlooked that while issuing Otii for EOS and F mounts) however, what is the pleasure in hand holding such a bulky setup?

    Tripod mounted with T/S lenses and such, one can always avail of the liveview from the EOS/Nikon cams either on the screen itself or with an external viewer, ignoring the OVF. Tilt is convenient for a portable/handheld set up.

    The question of a few hundred cheaper does not bode well in the long run. It actually becomes a burden on the buyer/user (me an example). Crap load of NEX cams and now the A7 series (slightly better, FWIW, but also cost a lot more) piling up, not to mention the useless APS-C lenses.

    I think in the next few years it be clearer. Leica, perhaps, would be the only camera company that pays attention to compactness/portability and Sony going hulk- hopefully with a metal mount.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Hi Vivek
    so the Nikon is about twice the size and weight and that is not bulky ? :-)
    Also a Mirror is simply complicated and useless now. And expensive to make.
    If Sony would do a pricing with margins like the Nikon (probably costs much more to make) the camera could be probably become half the price (which they do now as an end sale for the now old versions A7 and A7R and probably still make money from it).
    and third: so you won´t use an Otus on a Nikon because it´s big ? Really ?

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Hi Stefan,

    I would certainly use the Otii on Nikons and Canons, especially, if I am given those for "testing". Real life use, actual buying with real cash is out of question (OTOH, an AA Summicron 50/2 or a Summliux 28/1.4, despite their very steep price tags are still enticing).

    Your point about the pricing of the A7/A7r is exactly my understanding.

    I would be a fool (again) to be buying a new Sony FF camera at its debut price.

    I am quite proud that I paid the price that I set for the A7s and not the mafia price set by Sony.eu Far cheaper than what I paid for the A7r and it even does not have a plastic mount.

    I really would like to see dramatic improvements in hardware (more robust, less plastic), processors and such.
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Agree with manual focus being easier with an EVF (the smart folks at Zeiss overlooked that while issuing Otii for EOS and F mounts) however, what is the pleasure in hand holding such a bulky setup?
    It is about 1.6 kg with Metabones adapter and it get's me shooting the best fast 135 mm on the planet; beautiful long throw manual focus ring with "wide open focus regardless of selected aperture" (smart-adapted ZE version) means absolutely surgical level of focus placement. It is the best and the lightest shooting experience possible for such a stellar fast lens, I enjoy shooting with the APO 135 a lot. So much fun that I'm actually looking into purchasing other focal lengths of Zeiss ZE lenses even when there is equally good native FE option available.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    It is about 1.6 kg with Metabones adapter and it get's me shooting the best fast 135 mm on the planet; beautiful long throw manual focus ring with "wide open focus regardless of selected aperture" (smart-adapted ZE version) means absolutely surgical level of focus placement. It is the best and the lightest shooting experience possible for such a stellar fast lens, I enjoy shooting with the APO 135 a lot. So much fun that I'm actually looking into purchasing other focal lengths of Zeiss ZE lenses even when there is equally good native FE option available.
    I am sorry, makes no sense, but get it that its your personal thing.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    I am sorry, makes no sense, but get it that its your personal thing.
    Care to open this "makes no sense" statement a bit? That someone does not think 1,6 kg is always too heavy? That view would mean nobody could ever enjoy shooting Otus handheld for example. A7-series is the lightest and most compact FF setup for any such lens. I've seen more than a few people raving how good Otus is on A7R, quess they do not make any sense either.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    That view would mean nobody could ever enjoy shooting Otus handheld for example.
    After the dozen or so testers, the dozen more who bought them (knowing the bulk and heft) surely enjoy it.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    I have to admit , I didn´t buy the Otus either.

    But mostly because I´m so happy with the results of my old FD lenses that I use now on the A7R, the 1,2/85mm FD-L, the 2,0/135 FD-N and the 2,0/100mm FD-N, plus my Vivitar 1,2/55mm.

    And I am pretty sure these will nicely work on 50 Mpix plus - which I can test next week in Cologne when we have a test shooting with the new Canon 5Dr (maybe an S instead of R , not quite clear yet) and I have remounted all these with ED Mika EF mounts so that will be pretty nice to see them performing on the newest digital Body.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Did you see this - I hope this will not delay the new high MPix Sony:
    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-...camera-launch/
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I have to admit , I didn´t buy the Otus either.

    But mostly because I´m so happy with the results of my old FD lenses that I use now on the A7R, the 1,2/85mm FD-L, the 2,0/135 FD-N and the 2,0/100mm FD-N, plus my Vivitar 1,2/55mm.

    And I am pretty sure these will nicely work on 50 Mpix plus - which I can test next week in Cologne when we have a test shooting with the new Canon 5Dr (maybe an S instead of R , not quite clear yet) and I have remounted all these with ED Mika EF mounts so that will be pretty nice to see them performing on the newest digital Body.

    Regards
    Stefan
    Why would you purchase the Otus when you can get practically the same
    performance from the much cheaper 55 1.8, and also have it be a fraction of the weight ?

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Did you see this - I hope this will not delay the new high MPix Sony:
    http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-...camera-launch/
    I hope not too.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Exactly about the difference between the Otus 55mm and the smaller FE 1,8 I have interviewed Dr. Nasse/Zeiss on last Photokina.
    I have tested both lenses and for me I saw the FE was really good, BUT there was something in the Otus images which is hard to decribe - maybe best as an unbelievable clarity and definition.
    Dr. Nasse explained to me, that the normal ISO measurements and MTF are not made to see this and as such both lenses will perform very similar on paper, while in reality you do SEE a significant difference.
    That may not be a reason for amateurs to buy the otus, but if you need to squeeze out every bit of information from an image for filmmaking, stereography and optical measurements, color definition and especially forthcoming highres cameras with smaller pixel pitch, you will see it and the people who buy it also need it.
    Like the last 5-10 % of a highend audio equipment, most people will just not want to pay for this, but there are others who buy the 10000 $ power amp to finally hear that little noise in the background.....

    And BTW the Otus line sells very well, there are huge backorders.

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Must be nice to have that much extra cash lying around.

    Unfortunately I don't. Got a budget.
    I think the extra weight comes into play me too as I photograph Landscapes and frequently need to hike
    to get places.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    That may not be a reason for amateurs to buy the otus, but if you need to squeeze out every bit of information from an image for filmmaking, stereography and optical measurements, color definition and especially forthcoming highres cameras with smaller pixel pitch, you will see it and the people who buy it also need it.
    I understand professions like film making and testing (probably a bigger money maker than film making). What is stereography?

    But most of all, why hang it on a sub optimal A7r and the like when there are better cameras (for which they are optimised) out there? Zeiss went to lengths to explain how the Lotus and Batii are optimised for Sony.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Oops! Loxii and not Lotus.

    Coming to think of it, Zeiss have a proper set of high end lenses for film makers made in Oberkochen, Germany.

    So, that pretty much leaves out the testing part in that list.

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    Re: Upcoming A7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    But most of all, why hang it on a sub optimal A7r and the like when there are better cameras (for which they are optimised) out there? Zeiss went to lengths to explain how the Lotus and Batii are optimised for Sony.
    For handheld use currently the A7R is the optimal platform; slightly better sensor performance of a Nikon is more than offset by the huge handheld focus advantage of an A7-series camera. Given that Otii are DSLR lenses (small ray angle) so they do not need to be optimized for A7-series specially.

    Otus 85 + 36 MP Nikon gets following verdict in terms of a focusing (Ming Thein):

    On the subject of focusing, I think this is going to be the biggest hurdle for most users: even with my custom focusing screens, calibrated mirror and finder magnifier, it’s extremely challenging to consistently hit critical focus wide open. The viewfinder system is simply inadequate. The only optical finder-based method I’ve found that can nail focus involves racking it slowly while shooting a burst – disastrous for critical timing, but just fine for static subjects. Live view and a tripod is of course highly advisable.

    Personally I do not have trouble understanding why someone would want to use it in a camera where focusing handheld is quite trivial.
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