Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 37 of 37

Thread: Wide angle battle

  1. #1
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Wide angle battle

    Other than for weight considerations why would you purchase the new
    Zeiss Batis 25mm over the Sigma 24mm 1.4 Art, or even the Zeiss 24mm f2 ?

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Being able to AF across the whole frame and having a lens optimized for these sensors are a huge reason I'd think. I guess the big question is do you need a wide angle now or can you wait about 2 months?

    If you need it now then I'd go for what's available and reassess if the Batis is a better fit later. That was my rationale with eventually going with the 35 Distagon and putting my 35 Sigma Art up for sale soon.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Being able to AF across the whole frame and having a lens optimized for these sensors are a huge reason I'd think. I guess the big question is do you need a wide angle now or can you wait about 2 months?

    If you need it now then I'd go for what's available and reassess if the Batis is a better fit later. That was my rationale with eventually going with the 35 Distagon and putting my 35 Sigma Art up for sale soon.
    I very much doubt that the Batis will be any sharper than of the other
    two, and they both can be had for about 400/500 less.

    Is it going to be 400/500 better ?

    FWIS the chief reason would be the considerable weight savings.
    Last edited by The Ute; 8th May 2015 at 08:46.

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I very much doubt that the Batis will be any sharper than of the other
    two, and they both can be had for about 400/500 less.

    Is it going to be 400/500 better ?

    FWIS the chief reason would be the cosiderable weight savings.
    Absolute sharpness isn't everything. I care more about character and rendering for example. Functionality and a consistent look would be my next priority for example. A reasonable amount of sharpness is expected but when you have to go to 2-400% to tell a difference then it's nitpicking. Weight is of the least concern behind optics that perform at a satisfactory level for me. I've learned that it's far cheaper to buy the lens you really want from the jump than to try to find secondary or tertiary substitutes.

    Just goes to show we all have different needs/desires.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Absolute sharpness isn't everything. I care more about character and rendering for example. Functionality and a consistent look would be my next priority for example. A reasonable amount of sharpness is expected but when you have to go to 2-400% to tell a difference then it's nitpicking. Weight is of the least concern behind optics that perform at a satisfactory level for me. I've learned that it's far cheaper to buy the lens you really want from the jump than to try to find secondary or tertiary substitutes.

    Just goes to show we all have different needs/desires.
    And different pocketbooks.

  6. #6
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    The Zeiss 25 F2 Ze or Zf.2 is about the nicest 25mm on the market . Used it in both the Sony and the Nikon. Now having said that you still need the adapter in Canon buying a Metabones is 400 dollars so really no cost savings same with Nikon but Nikon you get no electronic data. Regardless now your down to a big lens with adapter and no AF. AF I can ignore myself in this focal length but if the Batis 25 fully compatible with ALL AF points full exif and in a lighter smaller package is a advantage. Question will be for me is does it match the Zf and Ze models. Given the MTF charts it looks it and if it renders like it than I'm all over it like a cheap suit. Lol but first things first I need the 85mm yesterday. Funny I sold my 85 1.4 ZA a couple weeks ago and since than had 3 gigs that I needed it. But I have a Minokta 200mm to cover me until I get that 85. Yea need to knock walls down to use it. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Bottom line for me is I want to get away from adapters but I still use the Sony LAe4 until I find those lens replacement in FE mount
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    So I guess the new perfect Wide Angle combo would be the A7rII w IBIS and 25mm Batis.
    Lord let me just hit lotto.

  9. #9
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    It just maybe the ticket. But we need to see what this Batis 25 can do. I'm going to wait on this one at least until I can rent it and test it first.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    So I guess the new perfect Wide Angle combo would be the A7rII w IBIS and 25mm Batis.
    Lord let me just hit lotto.
    Have you not considered the Samyang 24/1.4 and just for discussion (though you might say that it is out of your price range) the Leica Summilux 24/1.4 and the Canon 24/1.4 II (similar in price to the Batus)

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    And different pocketbooks.
    True but buying a Sigma Art 24 and a LA-E4 gets you right back near the price of the Batis. If speed and affordability are concerns then I'd look at the Rokinon/Samyang/Bowers lenses. They're great for the price if you can live with manual focus only. If AF is wanted/needed then you're in the $8-1300 range... Or more.

    The last 5-10% of performance is always a exponential price increase be it cars, audio equipment, photography, computers, etc. Never proclaimed any of it to be the best value as that's a relative term. One persons treasure is another's junk.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  12. #12
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Well said Tre
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Have you not considered the Samyang 24/1.4 and just for discussion (though you might say that it is out of your price range) the Leica Summilux 24/1.4 and the Canon 24/1.4 II (similar in price to the Batus)
    I have the 14 2.8. I use it for Astrophotography.
    The Leica is definitely out my range.
    I have the sony 28 f2 which I consider a bargain and like very much.
    Thank you for the tips.
    I'm inclined to go w the Sigma despite the weight as I already have the adapter and the dock.
    or I might go w the Zeiss f2 ZA.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  14. #14
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    True but buying a Sigma Art 24 and a LA-E4 gets you right back near the price of the Batis. If speed and affordability are concerns then I'd look at the Rokinon/Samyang/Bowers lenses. They're great for the price if you can live with manual focus only. If AF is wanted/needed then you're in the $8-1300 range... Or more.

    The last 5-10% of performance is always a exponential price increase be it cars, audio equipment, photography, computers, etc. Never proclaimed any of it to be the best value as that's a relative term. One persons treasure is another's junk.
    Thanks for your input.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    231
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    The best wide in the 24-25 range for me is the Canon 24 TS-E. With the evf, articulated screen and focus peaking it is a superb combo on the 7r.
    David
    Auckland, NZ.

  16. #16
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Samyang/Rokinon definitely wins on "bang for the buck". I too have the 14 2.8 and it is a winner (at least my copy). I am currently expanding my collection of Canon FD primes which are currently selling at reasonable (to me) prices well below the cost of the Rokinon equivalent (except for the 55mm f/1.2 - there is no Rokinon version of that) and they render very nicely on the A7II + Fotodiox Pro adapter.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  17. #17
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    ... because it is a native FE mount lens?

    ... because weight is important?

    ... because it looks kewl? (not really, only joking).

    Having said that I get excellent results from my Voigtlander Ultron 21/1.8 - especially now there is a lens profile in LR6. It will be interesting to see if I can justify having both once I receive the Batis 25/2 I have pre-ordered.

    LouisB
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    ... because it is a native FE mount lens?

    ... because weight is important?

    ... because it looks kewl? (not really, only joking).

    Having said that I get excellent results from my Voigtlander Ultron 21/1.8 - especially now there is a lens profile in LR6. It will be interesting to see if I can justify having both once I receive the Batis 25/2 I have pre-ordered.

    LouisB
    Honestly, I am getting excellent results w my Sony 28mm F2.
    It's a great lens especially for the money.
    I needed a 35 mm prime so I went w the Sigma 1.4 Art ( got it at a super price)
    The A mount Zeiss 24mm f2 is an excellent lens and can be had for almost
    half the price of a comparable Batis.
    Unfortunately, I have not hit Lotto yet.
    I'm going to spend most of my spare cash on the new A7rII.

  19. #19
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Honestly, I am getting excellent results w my Sony 28mm F2.
    It's a great lens especially for the money.
    I needed a 35 mm prime so I went w the Sigma 1.4 Art ( got it at a super price)
    The A mount Zeiss 24mm f2 is an excellent lens and can be had for almost
    half the price of a comparable Batis.
    Unfortunately, I have not hit Lotto yet.
    I'm going to spend most of my spare cash on the new A7rII.
    Ute, I can understand your reasoning.

    There are three main attractions to me of 25/2

    - f2 aperture
    - AF
    - weight

    I was also thinking of the ZM 25/2 before the Batis was announced but its a no-brainer for me to get a dedicated FE lens over one I have to adapt.

    LouisB
    -----
    My new book "Whitechapel in 50 BUildings", Flikr Stream, www.louisberk.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #20
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Honestly, I am getting excellent results w my Sony 28mm F2.
    It's a great lens especially for the money.
    I needed a 35 mm prime so I went w the Sigma 1.4 Art ( got it at a super price)
    The A mount Zeiss 24mm f2 is an excellent lens and can be had for almost
    half the price of a comparable Batis.
    Unfortunately, I have not hit Lotto yet.
    I'm going to spend most of my spare cash on the new A7rII.
    Why not buy the A7II now and put the extra $1000 or so towards a lens or lenses?
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  21. #21
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Why not buy the A7II now and put the extra $1000 or so towards a lens or lenses?
    Because I don't think the A7II will touch the new A7RII.
    If The new A7R is too costly and/or does not contain significant improvements
    that directly affect image quality I might just take your suggestion.
    I already have some pretty good lenses.

  22. #22
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    All I want is a bigger MPX than the A7II. Don't really need anything else added. I really like the A7II.


    Seriously if you don't need the higher MPX than its not going to get that much better in the A7r or put it another way it won't be any better except for the higher MPX. There not going to add anything extra.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Should have our questions answered within 2 weeks.
    Not making any moves w respect to camera bodies till then.

  24. #24
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    All I want is a bigger MPX than the A7II. Don't really need anything else added. I really like the A7II.


    Seriously if you don't need the higher MPX than its not going to get that much better in the A7r or put it another way it won't be any better except for the higher MPX. There not going to add anything extra.
    I'm hoping the new A7RII will come w IBIS and either EFCS, or silent shutter.
    I actually hope they keep it at 36MP.
    I'm actually after those other features AND 36MP.

  25. #25
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Those are a given. If they go to the A7II body than IBIS and EFSC. My point was the only difference would be the sensor.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  26. #26
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Just sold one of my A7R's so if there's a new II version soon I'll grab one. Like Guy though I really like the super versatility of the A7II and for the situations where I use it 24mp is ... 'Sufficient'!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  27. #27
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Those are a given. If they go to the A7II body than IBIS and EFSC. My point was the only difference would be the sensor.
    I prefer that sensor too unless the cost is prohibitive for me.
    So I'll wait see how they price it.

  28. #28
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Hopefully we will know something next week. I sold my A7r the other day so I'm down one cam. I'm not in a huge hurry though. More just want to know what I'm buying next. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  29. #29
    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,127
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Why not buy the A7II now and put the extra $1000 or so towards a lens or lenses?
    I came to the conclusion some time back that the best investment is in glass. That's why I'm sticking with my A7R for at least 3 years (the depreciation cycle as far as I am concerned) but investing any spare cash in lenses.

    I can appreciate it is probably different if you are a pro-shooter reliant on camera body and lens.

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Michiel Schierbeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam/Normandy
    Posts
    4,058
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    762

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I came to the conclusion some time back that the best investment is in glass. That's why I'm sticking with my A7R for at least 3 years (the depreciation cycle as far as I am concerned) but investing any spare cash in lenses.

    I can appreciate it is probably different if you are a pro-shooter reliant on camera body and lens.

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB
    Sounds very sensible to me, but may be hard to do.

  31. #31
    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    743
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Indeed, it's hard not to scratch that gear itch =)

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    590
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Other than for weight considerations why would you purchase the new
    Zeiss Batis 25mm over the Sigma 24mm 1.4 Art, or even the Zeiss 24mm f2 ?
    Or why not just get a proper thin cover glass and shoot the best wides in the world?

    E.G. A7.mod and 24SEM. The sensor mod also vastly improved my Canon 24/2:


    Bridge in to Blue by unoh7, on Flickr
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  33. #33
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    955
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    I like to print big and also pixel peep.
    I hope A7r does not disappoint, and is also affordable.
    I'd like to stay at 36MP and above.
    The location looks familiar.
    Is that the old bridge over the Virgin River in Rockville ?

  34. #34
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    iiiNelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Or why not just get a proper thin cover glass and shoot the best wides in the world?

    E.G. A7.mod and 24SEM. The sensor mod also vastly improved my Canon 24/2:


    Bridge in to Blue by unoh7, on Flickr
    If he's not fascinated about spending $1300 for the 25 Batis then he will be less elated about spending more on a 24 Elmar plus pay the $400 or so for a sensor conversion.

    I think we all get it. You like your sensor mod. Some prefer native lenses optimized for these sensor with AF capability. Let's be honest if it takes zooming in to 200%+ to see the difference them it may not be a worthwhile mod for most.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bruce Peninsula, Canada
    Posts
    2,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    184

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I came to the conclusion some time back that the best investment is in glass. That's why I'm sticking with my A7R for at least 3 years (the depreciation cycle as far as I am concerned) but investing any spare cash in lenses.

    I can appreciate it is probably different if you are a pro-shooter reliant on camera body and lens.

    Just my two cents.

    LouisB
    You are clearly far too sensible to suffer from GAS, Louis!

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Wide angle battle

    OK, I have to put in my $0.02 for the Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 lens:


    University of Georgia - Sanford Stadium by Carlos Echenique, on Flickr
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    etrigan63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Earth, Sol System (near Miami, FL)
    Posts
    2,501
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Wide angle battle

    Just picked up a Canon FD 20mm f/2.8 from the 'bay. When that gets in I will have more to contribute to this discussion.

    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •