The Definitive Sony B&W Images Thread

[Vivek]

This was put through the latest RAWtherapee with no demosaicing (which warned that it will show the sensor pattern). Rawtherapee also starts with this RAW as one from a Bayer sensor. The image shows dots at ~200% and above. The output was a mono green. I removed that while resizing in PS.

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

A7rII(m), Zony 55/1.8​

 

[Vivek]

Thanks, Carl. May be they interpolate?

I think that Sandy may be correct about this artifact being the actual pixel pattern on the sensor, but the question is what are other raw apps doing to suppress it that AccuRaw (and also Rawtherapee, see image in my post below) do not.

 

[scho]

Thanks, Carl. May be they interpolate?

I think so, perhaps treating the pixels as a Bayer pattern rather than a linear array. I tried running AccuRaw Monochrome with the CFA removed box un-checked and it did smooth out some, but not entirely. RawTherapee seemed to do better in your example.

 

[Vivek]

Carl, Lot more (42mp) tiny pixels. May be that is the reason? We will continue to investigate this.

Have you tried darktable?

 

[Knorp]

Both of these images are really nice Bart. What lens did you use? The only wide angle I have for my Sony cameras is the 16-35/4. I've been happy with it, but of course there might be others I should consider too.

Gary

Thanks, Gary. It's the Sigma ART 20mm F1.4 DG HSM (FE-mount).

 

[scho]

Carl, Lot more (42mp) tiny pixels. May be that is the reason? We will continue to investigate this.

Have you tried darktable?

The higher pixel density of the RII and III compared to the 24 MP 6000 certainly would give a smoother appearance. I also tried Rawtherapee demosaicing using other settings and the default Amaze and IGT seemed best. Both the none and mono options produce the sensor pixel pattern. I haven't tried darktable yet, but will do so. I may just stay with either Irident or LR if none of these 3rd party raw processing apps can do any better. Looking forward to see how my A7r (36mp) does after the conversion.

 

[Vivek]

Carl, Interestingly, the mono option, in my case, is exactly the same as AMAZE and others! No patterns at all at any magnification!

Yes, it will be interesting to compare your A7r output.

There are some programs from astro area that would do un interpolated raw conversions. A bit pricey though.

 

[bensonga]

They look great, but I wish someone would provide identical side-by-side comparisons of raw files at 100%, made with a tripod-mounted camera. Because contrast, sharpening, compression and resolution are inter-related, isn't anything less what we might call "anecdotal" evidence ? I'd love to see some on the Monochrome Imaging Services web site.

Hi Ken. My impressions and thoughts on the A7(m) are certainly anecdotal and subjective, simply based on my own experience with converting images to B&W with my original A7 and seeing the results in the dozen or so images I've taken with the monochrome A7. I was not unhappy with the B&W conversions from my original A7 at all, I simply wanted to try a monochrome sensor camera. I thought there might be some IQ improvements. The differences are subtle, but noticeable to me. I also simply enjoy the experience of shooting exclusively B&W again, as I did with B&W film for so many years.

With the current $500 rebate on the A7 II (now available in the USA for $1,098), I've decided to get one. When it arrives (7-10 days) and I have time, I will take some side-by-side comparison shots from the A7 II and A7m, as you suggested. I can't promise that they will meet your expectations for an objective comparison, but it would at least be a reference point.

Gary

 

[scho]

I downloaded DarkTable and tried again. Just ran demosaicing with passthrough option (no additional processing in DarkTable) and exported a Tif to LR. Looks cleaner up to 100%, but probably some residual processing artifacts at higher magnification, but no pixel pattern that I could see.

 

[Vivek]

Carl, I use the uncompressed RAW option to record the images. This results in fewer lossy artifacts. Only A7rII and newer cameras have this option, I think.

 

[KenLee]

When converting an uncompressed RAW Sony A7RII color image to monochrome with Adobe Camera Raw, if I simply lower the Blue channel to darken the sky, I get ugly artifacts around foliage and noise in the sky. Sharpening makes them worse of course. This limits the use of the camera for making landscape images.

Is this due to the Bayer Array ? On a converted camera, I'd have to use a yellow or orange filter (or polarizer) to darken the sky, but there would be no artifacts ?

Not to mix apples and oranges, I can't help but admire the low noise level of the Leica Monochrome RAW files posted here. Unfortunately, the camera is only 24 MP and way out of my price range.

 

[pegelli]

Ken, I've seen the same in some of my colour pictures.

I have attributed it to a slight unsharpness or CA around the leaves where the pixels aren't blue anymore but grey or some transition towards the green foilage. Therefore they are not impacted by the blue slider moving down and stay as bright as the sky originally was.

Maybe looking at the same spot in a colour version will give away if this is your problem as well.

 

[Vivek]

I managed to find the right version of Dark Table. Here is that image run through their mono (experimental) demosaicing option with all the default settings as with Rawtherapee. I add the Rawtherapee for comparison. The Dark Table output only starts to show vestiges of squares at >300%. and the common demosaicing pattern (more like noise) is absent. Obviously the curves of these two outputs are very different. I will have to work on the Dark table parameters (it isn't a very friendly app) to come to some balance but I think this is more preferrable at the moment.

Dark TableUntitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

RawTherapee
Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

 

[KenLee]

Ken, I've seen the same in some of my colour pictures.

I have attributed it to a slight unsharpness or CA around the leaves where the pixels aren't blue anymore but grey or some transition towards the green foilage. Therefore they are not impacted by the blue slider moving down and stay as bright as the sky originally was.

Maybe looking at the same spot in a colour version will give away if this is your problem as well.

Good advice

Apparently these halos are already present in the image due to in-camera sharpening of edges. If we sharpen further - and the lower the noise reduction - they become even stronger. If later we darken the blue sky, they really pop out.

 

[KenLee]

Ken, I've seen the same in some of my colour pictures.

I have attributed it to a slight unsharpness or CA around the leaves where the pixels aren't blue anymore but grey or some transition towards the green foilage. Therefore they are not impacted by the blue slider moving down and stay as bright as the sky originally was.

Maybe looking at the same spot in a colour version will give away if this is your problem as well.

Good advice

Apparently these halos are already present in the image due to in-camera sharpening of edges. The more we sharpen - and lower the noise reduction - the more evident they become. Once we darken the blue sky, they become even more evident.

 

[Vivek]

Another Dark Table output. It was a high ISO (ISO1250) capture and exposure was upped a bit in the post. The noise is very much like that of the Leica MM now. "Grain like" (no wormy stuff).

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Sony A7rII(m), Ultraviolet Capture, The Hague​

 

[KenLee]

Perhaps these Dark Table images are missing a Gamma adjustment.

 

[gandolfi]

Sail away in the Venice Naval Museum.

 

[Vivek]

Perhaps these Dark Table images are missing a Gamma adjustment.

They are. They are linear outputs. The mid tone needs to be stretched to make them look brighter.

Working on it..

 

[scho]

Shot at Buttermilk Falls today with the A6000m+Zony 35/2.8

Darktable processing to 16 bit Tiff using passthrough demosiacing option. Still has some patchy pattern noise.



Irident Developer Monochrome processing



and a 2 shot pano stitched from ARW files imported directly into LR and processed to monochrome.