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Thread: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

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    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    The Sony A7 series has cured me of the Leica sickness, but I have to admit this new one is somewhat interesting...

    Jono reviews the Leica Q

    Leica Q First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

    Leica Q

    Last edited by MikeEvangelist; 10th June 2015 at 07:30.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I see it as a more expensive RX1 with an EVF and slightly wider lens.

    No question it will deliver great photographs, but for me it isn't worth the price (btw neither was or is the RX1 for me)
    My Pics
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I see the attraction to these types of cameras but for me its not smart money spent. I need interchangeable lenses.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I see the attraction to these types of cameras but for me its not smart money spent.
    I agree, but as someone commented on DPR, 'it's like buying a 28mm Summilux and getting a camera thrown in for free.'

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Cons: 28mm, fixed lens, $1500 too expensive.

    Sign me up for the interchangeable m-mount version for $3K.
    Brad Husick
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    The hopes and aspirations expressed in Huff's review (one has to read his reviews carefully- he is quite sophisticated!) of the Q is correct.

    I am waiting for the RX2. I am hoping it will truly be a pocketable compact.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    I agree, but as someone commented on DPR, 'it's like buying a 28mm Summilux and getting a camera thrown in for free.'
    I will take (not that I can afford one now- not my priority) the 28/1.4 Lux for this price.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    As a every-day carry around camera it has a lot of promise. First native resolution and 28mm are pretty good for general street shooting especially with the built-in macro mode.
    The digital zoom bit is puzzling since one can always crop, except the instant production of pre-cropped jpegs has a certain attraction. Better than a phone for sure at maximum zoom.
    I am really enjoying my M240 since re-entry to Leica, so this might be a logical extension.
    So the M240 for interchangeable lenses and the Q for every-day stuff makes some sense to me.
    -bob

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Cons: 28mm, fixed lens, $1500 too expensive.

    Sign me up for the interchangeable m-mount version for $3K.
    I am surmising that that won't happen to prevent canibalization of their M line.
    But it is usually better to eat your own lunch before someone else eats it for you.
    -bob

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I am surmising that that won't happen to prevent canibalization of their M line.
    But it is usually better to eat your own lunch before someone else eats it for you.
    -bob
    Ahem... Never say never.

    I assume that the mirrorless market is a niche that Leica wouldn't mind having a piece of no matter how small. As you said they that you buy a cheap lunch from them than you eat in another establishment.

    Look how many M shooters bought into the FE system hoping/praying it would work with M lenses for a less expensive backup/ability to AF lenses when the mood strikes.

    Look how many more are lying to themselves about the overly expensive Leica T... and yes I've handled one in the store. Fun novelty but I'd never personally invest that sort of money into what is just a novelty.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    The Sony A7 series has cured me of the Leica sickness, but I have to admit this new one is somewhat interesting...

    Jono reviews the Leica Q

    Leica Q First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

    Leica Q

    I'm more interested in seeing/getting this new higher resolution EVF into other cameras personally. I'm sure the Q is great though but too limiting for the price for me.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I'm sure the Q is great though but too limiting for the price for me.
    Did you see the snap of how carefully they place the red logo!

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Did you see the snap of how carefully they place the red logo!
    Gawd no and I wont' bother looking until it's late enough to drink whisky to drown out the anger of the chronicling of pretentiousness.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I did not link that picture so that it does not upset your dinner plans.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    It looks like a really nice camera.

    Leica fans have something to cheer about.

    Considering how great my RX1 is I can now only imagine what the RX2 might have in store.

    -Bill

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Looks lovely, I'm sure image quality is superb. But and it's a big factor ... will it develop any of the faults (sensor or otherwise) of it's M digital counterparts?. Time will tell.
    I still have fond memories of my M days, but sadly now out of my price/performance bracket.
    Good luck to them, I hope it's a huge success.
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Mike E, you can never be cured of Leica lust. Leica is the gift that keeps on giving, sort of like.....never mind.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I did not link that picture so that it does not upset your dinner plans.
    Happy hour plans... Pre dinner...
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Sonys announcement just cured my Leica disease. LOL

    Seriously this looks like a nice little cam to trow in the pocket. Just not in the cards for me though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    So Leica now has Q, S and T products. Do they realize a letter is missing from this sequence?
    Doug Herr http://www.wildlightphoto.com
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    So Leica now has Q, S and T products. Do they realize a letter is missing from this sequence?
    Doug, very funny!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    So Leica now has Q, S and T products. Do they realize a letter is missing from this sequence?
    Yea a U. squat

    It just had to be said.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sonys announcement just cured my Leica disease. LOL
    But is Sony Disease any cheaper to treat?

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I see nothing about Sony's announcement that interests me.
    -bob

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I see the attraction to these types of cameras but for me its not smart money spent. I need interchangeable lenses.
    The whole camera weighs about what that Zeiss E 35/1.4 does. Gives you what looks to be best in the world 28 image quality, excepting Vivek's Lux, and maybe my Cron.

    It's a no-brainer if you have the change lying around. I would not want this as my only camera, but as second body to A7x or M, it is great, great, great. However, I will have to wait to steal a used one

    BTW the new sensor on the r2 may play better with M wides, if so, that would be huge.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Im not going to even comment on that one. Be a rats nest I don't want to get into.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    The whole camera weighs about what that Zeiss E 35/1.4 does. Gives you what looks to be best in the world 28 image quality, excepting Vivek's Lux, and maybe my Cron.

    It's a no-brainer if you have the change lying around.
    The price in Australia has just been announced ... $6000. Not sure about your pockets but mine aren't big enough to hold that much change. Either way, I would much rather buy the A7RII with 3 year newer technology and a couple of Zeiss lenses for the same money.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I have to say that just as I was about to totally leave the leica fold (apart from a couple of longer lenses) along comes the Q which actually of me ticks so many of the boxes I need for my sort of photography and especially street and documentary work that the Sony A7 and FE lenses don't
    1. A auto/manual lens with a proper DOF scale which I find vital for street photography and zone focussing. As good as the new FE 28 is (especially for what it costs) the lack of DOF scale makes it hard to use consistently.
    2. Analogue shutter speed and aperture controls that I can adjust and see without having to look at the screen
    3. Almost silent leaf shutter.
    4.More control over auto iso settings

    So my order is in and it is goodbye to the Leica M and 28 summicron both of which haven't had much use lately and whose sale will cover the cost of this acquisition. I will keep most of my other Leica lenses as they are all ones that perform well on the Sony's apart from the lux 50 which will probably go as well.
    The A7rII looks like an amazing bit of kit but I don't need that amount of MP's and am actually somewhat P***sed off with Sony that the A7II which is only 6 months old doesn't have the silent shutter function and some of the other updates the the rII has.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The hopes and aspirations expressed in Huff's review (one has to read his reviews carefully- he is quite sophisticated!) of the Q is correct.

    I am waiting for the RX2. I am hoping it will truly be a pocketable compact.
    better reviews here
    http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/06/10...ica-q-typ-116/
    http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/...1296362/review
    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-..._medium=E-Mail

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    It looks like a great camera and may tick some people's boxes perfectly, but my view is that:

    1. It is too expensive to be a huge success in the context of digital camera renewal cycles and the limitations of a fixed lens camera. I'd love one, but not at that price. For a 28mm walkaround I have a GR which is tiny by comparison. If it won't fit in a pocket, the A7 series will do nicely (for me). The GR has a slower, but even higher performing lens (according to Reid). Of course they are very different cameras in other ways.
    2. The 28 f1.7 lux is very good, but its too early to claim it matches the Summilux-M 28 lux. Reid showed that edge performance is noticeably behind the RX1.
    3. It will soon have competition in the form of an updated RX1 it seems. This could hurt Leica Q sales considerably, for those who would consider 35mm instead of 28.

    I feel the Q is Leica's future, but with interchangeable lenses. I think it would kill the M and should indeed be developed hard so that it does so. Looking at many comments, I think this is the unsaid verdict quite a few people have: 'the Q hits the sweet spot, but most of us need to change lenses'. The T was too 'revolutionary' and missed the mark, but the Q... well, it hits very close to bullseye and interchangeable lenses would give people the camera many hoped the Sony FE system was going to be and the natural successor to the Leica M. I love my Monochrom, but the platform needs renewal IMHO and as EVFs improve, the optical finder and RF mechanism - what made the M stand out - will ultimately have to go. I feel the Q shows us that this is not only tolerable, but perhaps even for diehards... desirable.

    The other feeling I have from looking at recent launches is that the following are in big trouble:

    Canon - No real innovation and ancient sensor technology.
    Nikon - No real innovation but at least they have cracking sensors.
    M43 - Brilliant FF and APS-C are not much bigger now. Great cameras, but the FE system will be dragging away a lot of interest from high end OMD E-M1 type bodies (I suspect).
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Thanks but too pricey for me for what it can do. I'll pass. Hope Leica does well. I would like them to be around.

    I am just so taken with the new RX100 iv (yeah, I know only 1 inch sensor and a zoom). Totally new tech with awesome capabilities and pocketable.

    That gets my money.

    When the RX2 shows up, I will likely grab one of those as well.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Thanks but too pricey for me for what it can do. I'll pass. Hope Leica does well. I would like them to be around.

    I am just so taken with the new RX100 iv (yeah, I know only 1 inch sensor and a zoom). Totally new tech with awesome capabilities and pocketable.

    That gets my money.

    When the RX2 shows up, I will likely grab one of those as well.
    Yes the RX100IV looks great but for the time being I will hang onto my MkIII as my pocket camera as it is still a little marvel

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    It looks like a great camera and may tick some people's boxes perfectly, but my view is that:

    1. It is too expensive to be a huge success in the context of digital camera renewal cycles and the limitations of a fixed lens camera. I'd love one, but not at that price. For a 28mm walkaround I have a GR which is tiny by comparison. If it won't fit in a pocket, the A7 series will do nicely (for me). The GR has a slower, but even higher performing lens (according to Reid). Of course they are very different cameras in other ways.
    2. The 28 f1.7 lux is very good, but its too early to claim it matches the Summilux-M 28 lux. Reid showed that edge performance is noticeably behind the RX1.
    3. It will soon have competition in the form of an updated RX1 it seems. This could hurt Leica Q sales considerably, for those who would consider 35mm instead of 28.

    I feel the Q is Leica's future, but with interchangeable lenses. I think it would kill the M and should indeed be developed hard so that it does so. Looking at many comments, I think this is the unsaid verdict quite a few people have: 'the Q hits the sweet spot, but most of us need to change lenses'. The T was too 'revolutionary' and missed the mark, but the Q... well, it hits very close to bullseye and interchangeable lenses would give people the camera many hoped the Sony FE system was going to be and the natural successor to the Leica M. I love my Monochrom, but the platform needs renewal IMHO and as EVFs improve, the optical finder and RF mechanism - what made the M stand out - will ultimately have to go. I feel the Q shows us that this is not only tolerable, but perhaps even for diehards... desirable.

    The other feeling I have from looking at recent launches is that the following are in big trouble:

    Canon - No real innovation and ancient sensor technology.
    Nikon - No real innovation but at least they have cracking sensors.
    M43 - Brilliant FF and APS-C are not much bigger now. Great cameras, but the FE system will be dragging away a lot of interest from high end OMD E-M1 type bodies (I suspect).
    All probably true but for me there is nothing quite like this camera even considering it's price. I know the Gr is fantastic but I need FF to be able to get subject separation at wider apertures

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viramati View Post
    Yes the RX100IV looks great but for the time being I will hang onto my MkIII as my pocket camera as it is still a little marvel
    I am sure it is. But the Mk4 has something else. Ultrafast video (and 4K as well). This is totally insane. If this goes up another order, every kid out there will be making discoveries in science.

    Many might have witnessed Sodium explosions in school demos. Only recently it has been found why it does that, with the help of high speed video.

    Check this: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/20...sion-explained

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Exactly. It matches your alignment of stars, in which case, great!

    Quote Originally Posted by Viramati View Post
    All probably true but for me there is nothing quite like this camera even considering it's price. I know the Gr is fantastic but I need FF to be able to get subject separation at wider apertures

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    So I just spent nearly an hour or so playing with the Q in the Leica Store, Mayfair.

    1. On the whole this is a very well finished machine with some fantastic features and good manual controls as you would expect from Leica. My main concerns with the camera (which haven't stopped me selling my M and ordering it) could be fixed mostly in firmware updates
    1. I found it a pain to have to delve into the menu system to have to make changes to the focus setting which for me need to be much more accessible and should really be in the function menu
    2. It would be great if the focus spot could be made to recenter after a shot as you can with Sony A7 series by pressing the delete button.
    3. In touch screen focus alone once the point is set to an area it doesn't refocus if you move and do a half press of the shutter. I found this annoying
    4. Unfortunately the focus scale jumps from 6' to infinity in a very small throw of the ring, it would have been nice and more convenient if the focus throw had matched the 28 summicron asph more
    5. The grip really adds to the ease of handling and will be the first and only extra I feel I need to buy for it.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I think Leica deserves some credit for getting this thing out, and it's got quite a buzz going.

    4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.

    I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet

    But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    I think Leica deserves some credit for getting this thing out, and it's got quite a buzz going.

    4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.

    I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet

    But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
    For me a camera having interchangeable lenses isn't a feature but rather a requirement once we are talking prices north of $1500. This is pretty much the same reason I passed up on the RX1 (besides it not having a built in EVF.) the RX1 could've solves my desire for a great 35 a long time ago except I'm not willing to part with that kind of money for a limiting camera.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    I think Leica deserves some credit for getting this thing out, and it's got quite a buzz going.

    4200 with the great glass....the R2 will be body only for 3200, and we know which is going to hold value better.

    I know, "interchangeable", is a nice feature, but I think for those who like 28 this thing is pretty sweet

    But, I'm not rich, so I will make due with M9 and 28 cron.
    How do you know which will hold it's value better??

    In Australia, the M9 sold for $9000 new, with used prices now sitting at $3k. All digital cameras depreciate, Leica included.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    For me it's about spending 4200 dollars. That would be both Batis 25,85, 35 distagon and maybe another lens. Or a 42 MPX cam and a Batis 25mm. Not as small and pocketable but certainly more functional with my other gear. I just don't have 4200 dollars laying around like that not being used as real gear to shoot gigs with. Problem I have being a PRO. There is no disposable gear you can buy or maybe better said fun gear. Sometimes that really just pisses my off.

    This certainly fits in my category of fun camera. Not so much a production camera. Now as a gift sure you can buy me one. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    For me, I doubt any camera at that price point that fails to provide a good 4K video option will ever be tempting enough to buy.

    I expect to pre-order the new A7Rii but if Samsung announces a pro quality wide lens soon I will pass. My NX1 has such good AF and will go 15 fps and is a better everyday camera for me.

    The RX10 iv is an unexpected option though.

    -Bill
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    ......I feel the Q is Leica's future, but with interchangeable lenses. I think it would kill the M and should indeed be developed hard so that it does so.....

    ...... 'the Q hits the sweet spot, but most of us need to change lenses'.... the platform needs renewal IMHO and as EVFs improve, the optical finder and RF mechanism - what made the M stand out - will ultimately have to go........
    Tom - I have used rangefinders for over 30 years and chose them for their scale and lens-design advantages; Plaubel Makina, Fuji 6x9, Mamiya7, digital M Leica. But I have always thought that rangefinder framing was the weakest part of these cameras; a post II World War solution in drastic need of improvement.

    I think the Q is a wonderful camera deliberately handicapped with the But... But... But caveats you mention. But time will probably force Leica from it's protectionist strategies with the M camera and a non-rangefinder M-lens platform needs to be offered; I see that as being in Leica's, and 'our' interest. Possibly it could kill the M-rangefinder, maybe not. However not offering an M-lens alternative platform may well kill M rangefinders anyway.

    For anyone with 'M-fit' lenses, the Q hints at what is possible if the protectionist shackles are taken off the current M-lens digital platform.

    ............. Chris
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
    Tom - I have used rangefinders for over 30 years and chose them for their scale and lens-design advantages; Plaubel Makina, Fuji 6x9, Mamiya7, digital M Leica. But I have always thought that rangefinder framing was the weakest part of these cameras; a post II World War solution in drastic need of improvement.

    I think the Q is a wonderful camera deliberately handicapped with the But... But... But caveats you mention. But time will probably force Leica from it's protectionist strategies with the M camera and a non-rangefinder M-lens platform needs to be offered; I see that as being in Leica's, and 'our' interest. Possibly it could kill the M-rangefinder, maybe not. However not offering an M-lens alternative platform may well kill M rangefinders anyway.

    For anyone with 'M-fit' lenses, the Q hints at what is possible if the protectionist shackles are taken off the current M-lens digital platform.

    ............. Chris
    That was my thinking as well and an interchangeable lens Q could have been a TRUE R solution, provide a FF AF solution, and could offer support for those with M lenses. I'd say that 2/3 of the people initially interested in the FE system did so exclusively for a reasonably priced backup for their M or for a "35mm digital back" for their abandoned platforms. Many came and left when they realized it was optimized for Sony lenses but SLR lenses worked excellently.

    Leica completely missed the boat on that opportunity and alienated a lot of people invested in the R system - even if it was a good move to produce the S as well. I'm sure that many of those people that didn't sell their stock would have bought a body or two though the day of the announcement... if it provided a lens mount.
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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I guess Leica didn't want to kill the M...

    Here is unbaked raw image from Leica Q which can be seen in raw therapee (exif f/8):


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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Hi Chris, I enjoy the RF framing system, but rarely shoot long lenses on any rangefinder due to the postage stamp frame lines issue (I can only enjoy 50mm on a 0.85 body). But seeing as I shoot 90% of my work with rangefinders at 35mm and wider, it has not been a real impediment. As silly as it may sound, when shooting my long term Afghanistan projects, I settled into carrying my Leica M ready to go (usually with 28 or 35mm attached) and a heavy Eos 1n with 85mm 1.2 L II set up in my Domke bag. I could not have shot the portraits in that series had I been trying to mess around with 75/90mm Leica M lens focusing!

    I think we're all in agreement really: the Q shows what can be done and an interchangeable Q (which I have seen stated online by someone claiming to know, is in development and about 12-18 months behind the Q). I would also imagine that any snags with the Q will translate into improvements in the interchangeable model before release, resulting in a fairly well finished product. I wonder if Leica got a lot of help from Panasonic with the Q as this would explain why the electronic side of things seems to be impressing people. In the meantime, the Q will do nicely one suspects, as it deserves to.

    If there isn't an interchangeable Q, I fear the M platform will run out of puff and Leica will be in trouble five years from now. I think they will need to take that leap of faith and figure out how to position the ongoing M platform in light of a Q.

    Just one example of the problems with the M is that I thought to myself (as a MM1 owner) what would also owning a M240 or 246 entail? Then I thought how some of my gear needed significant adjustment when I got the MM1 and wondered what the chances were of everything being adjusted to work perfectly on both bodies... then thought how absurd it is that one has to even think about such things these days. I have no interest in back and forth with Leica and fiddling.

    Lots of people said Sony was no threat to Leica because they are different customers, but I beg to differ. I am a customer of both and will always select the equipment that meets my needs best and could not care less about labels. My money has gone to Sony of late, because Leica has not innovated beyond the finicky and expensive M platform, which was far better suited to film than digital tolerances. I still want a M246 though. And the future new M!

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    I am quite a well experienced single lens camera user.
    I've been using a GR, X100 and the Sigma Merrills for a few years.
    For me one very important factor of a fixed lens camera is size.
    If you are going to give up interchangeable lenses then I must have some size improvement.

    Look at this line up to get and idea where the Leica sits. -
    Compact Camera Meter

    I suppose the IQ might be so stellar its worth it but over a M9 or M240 with 28?
    I am warming to the camera but its price puts it in the not worth it for my images category.
    Anyone know if the files are 12 or 14 bit or other?
    Last edited by Tim; 13th June 2015 at 01:53.

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    Re: I thought Sony had cured my Leica disease...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Anyone know if the files are 12 or 14 bit or other?
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/55...ica-q-mtf.html

    14 bit.

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