A7RII game plan

[4season]

My goal is to sit back and let you guys do all of the initial purchasing I want to pick up the new 90/2.8 macro lens, but beyond that (shrug) I don't know.

Video: I do occasional video snapshots. But I have a broadcast television background and a pretty good idea of what the workflow's like for more ambitious works where most of the time is spent in post-production. I'm thinking there are not enough hours in a day for me to go too deeply down that perfectionist rabbit hole. On the upside, besides your familiar friends Adorama and B&H, you can make new ones like Markertek and Sweetwater Sound: Heh heh, welcome to the other 90% of your expenditures.

 

[miska]

The main question for me is should I, on the long run, "invest" (ahem, you know what I mean ) more in Sony-compatible or Canon-compatible gear.

For the moment, I use my A7R as a Canon body (with Metabones adapter), for my landscape stuff. I cannot completely dump Canon though (I have the original 7D and a 1DsIII), because I also do wildlife. For that I need long lenses (I have the 500mm f/4 II, which I love), with fast-ish AF (I'm not into birds in flight in particular, so the AF doesn't need to be super-duper fast, not gonna upgrade just to get the latest and greatest AF).

For bodies, it's 5DsR vs A7RII. Both have pros and cons.

For the lenses, it's native Sony (Zeiss Batis, and other AF lenses for the Sony), vs. Canon / Sigma / Zeiss primes.

The nice thing with Sony, is you can use lenses on Canon mount. You lose fast AF, but with the A7RII, perhaps the AF will be even useful on adapted lenses (it's not really currently, too slow for anything that moves even a bit).
Canon - well it has a much better AF, and it is better suited to work with super telephotos from a handling POV.

Another option would be A7RII (for landscapy stuff) + Canon 6D (to have a FF option for the 500mm). Perhaps not a bad choice, actually ?

Choices, choices. But now, I think I will just sit tight, and wait for reviews, and especially "Battle of the pixel giants" kinds of things, comparing different options.

It will be very very interesting to see, how an A7RII with the 25mm Batis fares against a 5DsR with either Sigma 24mm or Zeiss ZE 25mm f/2. I think it will be the Batis (as it's a newer design and the MTF looks very very good), but who knows ?

Interesting times. Canon better wake up now.

 

[thompsonkirk]

Since I read the A7RII announcement, I've been thinking about my game plan. I don't usually rush in as an early adapter of new models, but this seems different because the II isn't all that new. It's second generation, and it fixes things that held me back, especially the vibrating shutter.

I use an A7 for my little bit of color work. I bought it back when we were too optimistic about how well it would work with Leica lenses. But most of my work is BW landscapes with Leica MM, and I've found it annoying to see/guess what will end up in the frame when using wide lenses + external finders, instead of live view. I'd been waiting for clues about which next-generation body would suit me best, M246 or A7RII.

All of the sites I've read suggest the M246 offers only modest improvement in IQ at base ISO. Its greatest advantage seems to be its high ISO range, but I do very little work in 'available darkness.' I had been reading about the M246 but decided to pre-order an A7RII (for $4K less!). If for some reason I don't like it, I can sell it at a modest loss and go for the Leica. Experimenting the other way around would be costly/risky.

I'll continue to use the same lenses, usually Leica WATE and MATE (which are retrofocus) for BW landscapes. I'm expecting to sell/trade my 24mm Elmarit for a 25 Batis or older 25 C/Y Distagon, because there's little reason to think the the Elmarit would cover a Sony sensor's corners without tinting/smearing.

I'll demote the A7 that I've been using for color to be the camera that lives in the car. I'll also keep some lovely Zeiss C/Y lenses, 28, 50, and 35-70, that I bought when I realized most of my M lenses had trouble lighting up the corners of A7/R sensors.

I've already tested to be sure the present A7R's BW conversions can pretty closely march MM image quality in the size of BW prints I make (never over 17x22"); so I'm pretty confident that files from the RII sensor will be adequate for my purposes. And I'll appreciate, besides the live view, the chance to use the LR/ACR BW conversion sliders again. With MM files I've missed the chance to create different tonal balances, especially when converting greens and blues.

My main uncertainty: Would I like a 25mm Batis? (One of the questions that Miska just asked). I love the less clinical and more 3D rendering of the older Zeiss C/Y lenses, and the slight flare of the older coatings; so I might be happier with a 25mm C/Y Distagon. I'm not sure which would be the better bridge, 25 Batis or 25 Distagon, between 16-21 WATE and 28-35 MATE. The Tri-Elmars are sort of midway between Mandler lenses and the current Karbe ones, and for sure I'll stick with them, especially because they give me 6 Leica focal lengths in 2 barrels. I'm getting too old to carry more.

I've been puzzling over this game-plan and would like help if anyone spots mistakes/loopholes. I should add that the omission of focal lengths over 50 isn't an oversight, though I do have the 35-70 Zeiss to add a little more focal length.

Kirk

 

[k-hawinkler]

Kirk,

Have you tried Nik with Silver Efex Pro 2 for B&W conversion?
That would give you another tool that I find very useful.
The Nik package interfaces excellently with CS6 and LR.
One can also use Nik standalone.

 

[danlindberg]

Being a diehard tech cam shooter for everything I do professionally, I will not be preordering.
I have an A7R but use it only for familysnaps so I havn't even invested in modern lenses but use my Canon FDn's (20/2.8 35/2 50/1.4 85/1.2L) with better than expected results for my usage.

Having said that, this R mark II seems absolutely amazing and I will probably end up with one, just not buying the first batch.

If I was to invest in modern glass then for me the 25 and 85 Batis are a no brainer.

Then my wish would be for a 45 Batis to complement the other two. (can never forget this focal length with many years of shooting with Contax G1 and the 45)

And ofcourse......a killergood native tilt/shift 18......:thumbs:

With those four lenses I would be able to do what I do in my style of photography and it would be a reasonably light load to bring everything all the time!

However, I will continue to reach for my tech setup not only for end result but the photographic process. To me it is pure and gets me creative.......:angel:

 

[miska]

The thing that makes this very difficult, is that it's not just a choice of a camera. It's the system that counts: Choice of lenses, AF system / Adapter, Body.

 

[jagsiva]

Re: A7rIi game plan

I have used the Nikon 14-24/2.8 with a double adapter on my A7R and the results were great but it was a very fiddly setup, with no idea of the aperture and of course manual focusing.

Pradeep

A small trick for knowing approximate aperture...

On my A7R w/Novoflex adapter, I use the 14/24 in A priority. Starting wide open, if you start rotating the aperture ring on the adapter, everytime the shutter speed halves, it's one stop. So at f2.8, if you were at 1/800, and you are now at f8.

Granted, when using auto ISO in combination, it gets more complex, but for landscape, I'm usually at base ISO anyway, and I have never really liked auto ISO on the A7 to begin with.

Otherwise, I really like the 14/24 on the Sony.

 

[RiversPhoto]

Re: A7rIi game plan

I'm buying , I figured that out in about 5 minutes reading the feature sets. My game plan on how and what goes and stays is a moving target. The 35mm stays for sure. I want the 85 no doubt about it. I do want the 25 but to do that the 16-35 goes and I lose my extreme wide angle. Than if I did that I would want one of several choices Tri-elmar or Leica 18 if it works or go back to the 17mm TSE which I'm leaning towards.

Another great wide option is the Voightlander 15mm MkIII. The pictures on the internet were good enough that I bought one recently and find it is fantastic on the A7II and my Leica ME. Batis 25mm will be a great, fast wide (although I am hoping for a Loxia 25mm soon), and you have multiple choices at 35mm, mine being the Loxia 35 F2.0.

That will be a pretty spread out set of three wide angle primes on a high megapixel camera which will allow a bit of cropping. Much cheaper than a WATE, and Photoshop can mimic the 17mm TSE.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Like to see more of the Voigtlander 15mm. I had one years ago .

Glad to hear it's good. Got mixed reviews

 

[Pradeep]

Re: A7rIi game plan

That doesn't have to be fiddly if you use the camera light meter to adjust the aperture of a Nikkor G lens. By counting factors of 2 in exposure time changes while adjusting the lens aperture one can get exactly the desired aperture I find.

I agree, it is not impossible to get the aperture correct (exposure wise), but it is not the same as having the ability to 'dial it in' or change it quickly on the fly.

With the Nikon to Canon and then Canon to Sony adapter on, the whole thing becomes bulky too. The aperture ring can only be set at 'widest' or 'smallest', there is really no way to control the in-between stops without a lot of back and forth adjustments. The ring itself is not smooth in operation and there are no indents either, so closing down by 1 or 2 stops is quite cumbersome. Of course one needs to compromise when using adapted lenses but would much rather have had an auto-focus, aperture-controllable lens in the first place. Willing to pay good money for it too.

Hopefully Sony will come out with one - until then perhaps primes will have to do.

Pradeep

 

[Saxbike]

Re: A7rIi game plan

I will have to just drool over the A7rII for the foreseeable future. Too rich for my blood, unfortunately with other spending priorities at the moment. I will stick with my A7 for the time being. If I can sell it and upgrade to the A7II for $300 net or less, I might consider that for the IBIS/AF/handling improvements.

I am in the same boat and actually look forward to purchasing someone's gently used a7r or a7II bodies at a fire sale price, of course. At present my a7 will continue as the work horse. I am very pleased with my current set of lenses. My basic kit includes 35mm f2.8, 16-35mm f4, Contax G 90mm f2.8, and several A-mount lenses with the LA-E4 adapter. The Minolta 100mm f2 and the Sony 50mm f1.4 get the most use. My Sony 70-300mm seems to be permanently attached to my a850.

In the end, this camera (a7rII) is an exciting leap forward for the E-mount. It also appears that Sony is actually listening to user critiques and has made the upgrades/changes that have been requested. I know that down the road I will buy one or a very similar featured camera in the future.
Henry

 

[AndyPtak]

Chris - use the 17-40 much?

Doesn't seem to be in the same league as your others.

 

[Jim DE]

Guy, I will be a "wait and see" buyer for this camera ..... I have been bit before with being a early adopter on new technology. It is hard not to get swept up in the buying panic but I have learned and wear the scars.

I have been waiting for a "A9 variant" of the full frame mirrorless line (if it ever becomes a reality) but like you this a7RII checks many of the boxes I have been looking for. $3300 and a collection of $1500 a piece glass to go along with it is a sizable investment so I want no mistakes or regrets. Too many I see jump into the early adopter fires, rave about them, then oddly within a few weeks or months they are jumping on yet the next new wave widget while bad mouthing the one they just left. If one follow's their recommendations they are likely not getting any truly reliable user info, just new buyer hype and justification for their buying habit.

I will wait, watch, and draw info from as many reliable sources as I can find, and try and get one in my hands, before hitting the "buy" button and committing to a complete change in lens mount glass. Who knows while waiting a new a99II may be released that may suit my needs as well as reducing my overall investment costs by letting me stay with unadapted A mount glass which I own a boatload of.

 

[Vivek]

Too many I see jump into the early adopter fires, rave about them, then oddly within a few weeks or months they are jumping on yet the next new wave widget while bad mouthing the one they just left. If one follow's their recommendations they are likely not getting any truly reliable user info, just new buyer hype and justification for their buying habit.

I never come across anyone like that here or anywhere else!

Have you seen one drawback reported on the A7r ii or the Baitii lenses and such? None. Flawless stuff.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy, I will be a "wait and see" buyer for this camera ..... I have been bit before with being a early adopter on new technology. It is hard not to get swept up in the buying panic but I have learned and wear the scars.

I have been waiting for a "A9 variant" of the full frame mirrorless line (if it ever becomes a reality) but like you this a7RII checks many of the boxes I have been looking for. $3300 and a collection of $1500 a piece glass to go along with it is a sizable investment so I want no mistakes or regrets. Too many I see jump into the early adopter fires, rave about them, then oddly within a few weeks or months they are jumping on yet the next new wave widget while bad mouthing the one they just left. If one follow's their recommendations they are likely not getting any truly reliable user info, just new buyer hype and justification for their buying habit.

I will wait, watch, and draw info from as many reliable sources as I can find, and try and get one in my hands, before hitting the "buy" button and committing to a complete change in lens mount glass. Who knows while waiting a new a99II may be released that may suit my needs as well as reducing my overall investment costs by letting me stay with unadapted A mount glass which I own a boatload of.

Your not alone here and a lot of folks are taking the wait and see approach which is perfectly a very smart thing to do. How I look at it for me is I am buying my way out of the A7r issues that it had and I accept that as the cost of doing business. I want a near flawless camera and not have to supplement it with other bodies to get certain work done. I feel this will handle about 95 percent of what I do , so for me its a done deal. But I totally respect folks decision to wait and actually encourage it, let us guinea pigs figure it and than make a call. I have been here way too often myself. LOL

 

[msadat]

what i want are the following
sony a7rii
third party grip a7rii
28 and 85 ziess lenses
90 macro

i don't know how its going to happen yet. no pre orders for me. looking in oct nov time frame and let the dust settle a bit. may be some will show up on the used market. may be i should wait for guy to sell his stuff since the new batch sony cameras will be out real soon

 

[k-hawinkler]

Re: A7rIi game plan

I agree, it is not impossible to get the aperture correct (exposure wise), but it is not the same as having the ability to 'dial it in' or change it quickly on the fly.

With the Nikon to Canon and then Canon to Sony adapter on, the whole thing becomes bulky too. The aperture ring can only be set at 'widest' or 'smallest', there is really no way to control the in-between stops without a lot of back and forth adjustments. The ring itself is not smooth in operation and there are no indents either, so closing down by 1 or 2 stops is quite cumbersome. Of course one needs to compromise when using adapted lenses but would much rather have had an auto-focus, aperture-controllable lens in the first place. Willing to pay good money for it too.

Hopefully Sony will come out with one - until then perhaps primes will have to do.

Pradeep

I use a single Novoflex adapter and have not experienced the issues you describe.

 

[uhoh7]

The question I think will determine if the A7R2 is simply "the next Sony" or a ground breaker which will become a classic like the 5D or M6, is: will the incredible Leica RF wides perform well with the new sensor technology, (which there is some reason to hope) ?

This would put the camera in the bag of many great shooters who would not otherwise consider it and push the buzz to critical mass, I think.

My current kit is M9, A7.mod and a lot of glass. And I really like it. So, A7r2 will not be pre-ordered here. I have no lust for M240 either. However, if, in the long run, the A7r2 proves fantastic with M glass, I will grab a used one someday maybe

 

[Jim DE]

One thing I just noticed on the auction site...... used A7R prices have tanked. many listed around or below $1k. The great escape has started .......

 

[iiiNelson]

The question I think will determine if the A7R2 is simply "the next Sony" or a ground breaker which will become a classic like the 5D or M6, is: will the incredible Leica RF wides perform well with the new sensor technology, (which there is some reason to hope) ?

This would put the camera in the bag of many great shooters who would not otherwise consider it and push the buzz to critical mass, I think.

My current kit is M9, A7.mod and a lot of glass. And I really like it. So, A7r2 will not be pre-ordered here. I have no lust for M240 either. However, if, in the long run, the A7r2 proves fantastic with M glass, I will grab a used one someday maybe

I wouldn't bank or base my decision of buying an A7RII on whether it performs with M mount wide. There are some great native lenses now.