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[Godfrey]

Ironically that sort of why I got rid of my M. Great body to work with within the strengths of the system (focal lengths from 24-90mm) but once you need to do more outside of that there are other choices that are more befitting. Mirrorless or DSLR are your main choices to fill the needs.

I chose mirrorless for the ability to have more capable sensors than Leica currently offers and flexibility to mount the lenses I choose so that I'm not tied to Canon/Nikon exclusively. Yes I could've gone Micro 4/3 but as the saying goes - been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and moved on to Full Frame sensors only.

Whatever works for you is best.

The Leica M-P allows me to use my Nikon (or Leica R) lenses when I want to do macro or other work outside the range of Leica M lenses (copy work, long tele work, etc). And when I want a more automation oriented solution, I have my Olympus E-M1 system with lenses from 20mm to 600mm EFOV available with full automation, image stabilization, WiFi remote control, full-function wired tethering, etc.

No one system does everything best. For me, the complementary nature of the Leica M-P and the Olympus E-M1 work very well for the majoriy of what I want to do.

If I want a FF DSLR for fast sports work with a long lens, well, I have all the lenses (for use with my F6, 18mm to 800mm) and just rent the appropriate Nikon DSLR body du jour.

I simply wasn't happy working with the Sony A7 system. It didn't do what I wanted as well as the M-P does for full frame, and felt crude and annoying to me, compared to the E-M1. That said, I found it quite capable of producing very high quality photos and don't want to be thought of as disparaging it ... It just wasn't right for me.

G

 

[iiiNelson]

I didn't take it that way at all Godfrey and I agree that Sony has some ways to go in refinement compared to more established systems. I find them going in the correct direction generally and seem to be learning from some past mistakes. No they don't have the prestige of Leica, the heritage of Canon/Nikon, the purely photographic vision of Fuji, the compactness of Micro 4/3, but they do have innovation/technology/responsive nature to the desires of customers on their side more than many other brands.

 

[mazor]

For me this camera is more about the fixes I needed. I don't expect to change anytime soon to be honest. This looks to be it for me.

I'm done chasing pie in the sky and big rainbows. I just want a good working system.

I think consumerism has a way to making one change or update their cameras but adding irresistible features or fixes. Time will tell when an A7r iii comes out in the future....

 

[mazor]

Devil's advocate here.

I've jumped off the Sony Ride entirely now. I felt the A7 was a good sensor and a decent EVF in a clunky body. The II model doesn't make me feel any different. It let me use my Leica R lenses, but I never really loved using it. I don't see that changing given Sony's pell-mell rush to introduce new products every seven months.

All my Sony stuff is sold and gone. Paring the kit down to the specifics I really like to work with, one thing at a time, is making me much happier.

G

So, it was the feel and the controls that put you off the a7 series cameras? Or was the the sure romance of the Leica that allured you back .

Appearance wise, in my opinion, both the a7 style mark i and mark ii designs do not really appeal to me, especially with regards to the fake prism hump iteration on the mark i. The mark ii's fake hump is better but still not as well implemented as the Olympus E-M1 aesthetic wise. I would have personally preferred the A7 to follow similar form factor to the a6k, maybe slightly larger with the viewfinder tucked into the left corner. As the rumours have it, the a9 is meant to sport this type of formfactor.


Specification wise, there is not much to fault, the A7 series sensors and EVF do not disappoint, and it seems the mk ii's further add to an already feature packed ILC.

 

[Godfrey]

Specifications do little for me.

It is the feel, the controls, and the fact that I see better quality photos even with my M9 compared to the A7. Remember that I already had the "romance of the Leica" in hand when I bought the A7. I was looking for more, but the A7 didn't deliver the "more" I was looking for.

I don't know about anyone else, but the best cameras to me have been serviceable lumpkins that fit in the hand well. Of course, they all have to meet the minimum level of performance that I want too. Hasselblad, Nikon, Leica, Olympus, Linhof, and Rollei have all made cameras that had the kind of in-hand utility and performance that I look for. The Sony A7, for me, is simply awkward to hold, awkward to use, and I quite frankly like the files that come out of my Olympus E-M1 and (now) Leica M-P more.

The fact that the Leica M-P is modestly attractive, in a utilitarian sort of way like the Nikon F6 and Hasselblad SWC, is a minor plus. I don't spend a lot of time looking at my cameras...

G

 

[4season]

From my perspective, time and familiarity have reduced my "old" Sony A7 to the picture-taking instrument that it is. And that's been true of every other camera that I've owned to date. (Then again, I've never tried a Pignons Alpa--oh hey there's an idea...)

Considered purely as a picture-taking machine, I got no complaints about the A7, though I wish it retained the flatter shape of the NEX-7 rather than the current pseudo-SLR shape.

I discovered the writings of Deyan Sudjik a number of years ago and in light of this discussion, I figure that one of his more recent works might be worth a read:

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/detail.aspx?ID=12224

 

[Chuck Jones]

For € 3.500 this is sure an expensive baby.
Not sure if I am willing to pay the extra € 1.400 compared to the then new A7r.
Anyway not a first buyer this time, I think.

+1 for me this time around as well.

I like everything I'm seeing about the A7RII, EXCEPT the price. Sony sure is proud of this puppy, eh? I'm not an early buyer this time either until I actually use one.

Will one of you early buyers please have a close look when you get yours, and see if they are sporting a red dot or at least a POLISHED red 7? I mean, that Hasselblad rebranding at ten times the Sony price must have gone to someones head... :roll eyes:

I am often critical about the cost of high tech gadgetry when first announced. So often I've paid the initial prices as an early adopter only to end up disappointed with the cost, the performance after some testing, and the low resale value. Sony tech is never cheap, but lately in the camera arena Sony (full frame 35mm), Samsung (APS-C), and Olympus (M43) have been on fire. I don't know of any other cameras from any other manufacturers that deliver the same overall value.

I was a critic of the A7S pricing on announcement, even to the point of writing a critical article about the price on my blog. I had to eat my words. After actually using one, I found the A7S for my work is the best all around camera I've ever owned. So the value is very much there for my professional work. I suspect the same will be true of the replacement A7S Mark II when it comes. If they bump it just a few MP like the A7RII, hold the excellent high ISO, add IBIS and internal 4k recording, I'll try to buy two. And yea, I am resigned to the likelihood that it will also cost over $3k this time around.

Between my A7R and this new little Olympus OM-D EM-5 Mark II (it has a fabulous multi-shot high Megapixel mode) my high MP needs are well covered, and both are already paid for. Shooting fees being what they are these days, there isn't any room in my budget for carrying camera debt anymore.

I spoke with my Congressman the other day and asked them why not consider adding a camera replacement benefit to Social Security here in the USA if they wanted to do something in this election year that people would really love? I mean, they could hide it under Obamacare by defining GAS as a Medicare covered condition for the elderly, right? I got told that ridiculous benefits are strictly reserved for banks, oil companies, car manufacturers and other large corporations. :face smack:

Power to the people!

 

[Vivek]

Oh brother! I will not add to your fire by disclosing the price I paid for my new A7s. :lecture:

Early birds always get the worms and only the worms. :lecture:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I bought 5 Medium format backs. Talk about feeling violated. This is nothing, it's almost comical.

Seriously I know price feels a little high but end of day I'm buying about 95 percent perfect when buying the A7r it was 75 percent. I want that 95 percent so I can stop looking over my shoulder and just get on with my life. I'm seriously really tired of the game.

 

[Chuck Jones]

Thanks.
At this early stage I am not aware or reviews - only of, let's call them, infomercials for lack of a better word and Sony press releases.
Could you please point me to publications that deserve the description review? TIA.

The closest thing I know of in the way of an honest "review" is what Brian Smith wrote up as his Field Test trial here: http://briansmith.com/field-test-sony-a7rii/ Full disclosure, Brian is a Sony Artisan of Imagery, so he is compensated by Sony to use and write about their products.

But Brian is an excellent "A List" commercial portrait and event photographer who I am proud to recommend and have known personally for over fifteen years to be honest and trustworthy in his photography advice as well as an excellent judge in his ability to critique camera gear.

I trust Brian's opinion both from his experience and also from his technical chops. Brian's access allowed him to literally "write the book" on the original A7R: http://thecameraforum.com/sony-a7-a7r-snapshots-great-shots/ Brian is a photographers photographer, a Pulitzer Prize winner. Photography sources don't come any better than Brian, in my opinion. Am I a Brian Smith fanboy? You bet I am. I think he is one of the best modern day portrait photographers going, but he is my friend so you would probably expect that. Judge for yourself by his work on his website.

Brian Smith is the only one of the bloggers I know of that has a close enough trust relationship with Sony that they work with him in developing their new camera gear. This gives Brian insights into the latest Sony technology and thinking the rest of us who only get a quick look at new tech before writing our initial impressions don't have.

Google rewards greatly those who get news out online first, so the rest of us have to rely on outside sources, our own contacts information, and yes, very much on the Sony and others press releases. This goes for myself, Huff, Petapixel, DpReview, F-Stoppers, Luminous, and all the rest who have already written something on the A7RII. We try our best as journalists, but nothing beats being an actual insider when it comes to writing about a particular manufacturer's new announced, but still unreleased, technology.


Have a GREAT day!

Chuck Jones

 

[Vivek]

As I already pointed out, these "Artisans" have to be handled with a glove online.

As for the "honesty". Hmm... there are several shades. When Sony had few lenses for the FE, it is the same artisan who recommended a ZM 18/4 for A7r (!!!) and the NEX 10-18 f/4 zoom.

Soviet union had an official newspaper called "Pravda". LOL

The first "artisan" who writes an article critical of the crap load of NEX' and other blue labelled stuff that Sony churned out would make me believe.

 

[Godfrey]

From my perspective, time and familiarity have reduced my "old" Sony A7 to the picture-taking instrument that it is. And that's been true of every other camera that I've owned to date. (Then again, I've never tried a Pignons Alpa--oh hey there's an idea...)

Considered purely as a picture-taking machine, I got no complaints about the A7, though I wish it retained the flatter shape of the NEX-7 rather than the current pseudo-SLR shape.

I discovered the writings of Deyan Sudjik a number of years ago and in light of this discussion, I figure that one of his more recent works might be worth a read:

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/detail.aspx?ID=12224

That looks like an interesting book! thank you..

G

 

[k-hawinkler]

The closest thing I know of in the way of an honest "review" is what Brian Smith wrote up as his Field Test trial here: http://briansmith.com/field-test-sony-a7rii/ Full disclosure, Brian is a Sony Artisan of Imagery, so he is compensated by Sony to use and write about their products.

But Brian is an excellent "A List" commercial portrait and event photographer who I am proud to recommend and have known personally for over fifteen years to be honest and trustworthy in his photography advice as well as an excellent judge in his ability to critique camera gear.

I trust Brian's opinion both from his experience and also from his technical chops. Brian's access allowed him to literally "write the book" on the original A7R: http://thecameraforum.com/sony-a7-a7r-snapshots-great-shots/ Brian is a photographers photographer, a Pulitzer Prize winner. Photography sources don't come any better than Brian, in my opinion. Am I a Brian Smith fanboy? You bet I am. I think he is one of the best modern day portrait photographers going, but he is my friend so you would probably expect that. Judge for yourself by his work on his website.

Brian Smith is the only one of the bloggers I know of that has a close enough trust relationship with Sony that they work with him in developing their new camera gear. This gives Brian insights into the latest Sony technology and thinking the rest of us who only get a quick look at new tech before writing our initial impressions don't have.

Google rewards greatly those who get news out online first, so the rest of us have to rely on outside sources, our own contacts information, and yes, very much on the Sony and others press releases. This goes for myself, Huff, Petapixel, DpReview, F-Stoppers, Luminous, and all the rest who have already written something on the A7RII. We try our best as journalists, but nothing beats being an actual insider when it comes to writing about a particular manufacturer's new announced, but still unreleased, technology.


Have a GREAT day!

Chuck Jones

Thanks Chuck for confirming my point.

 

[jfirneno]

Google rewards greatly those who get news out online first, so the rest of us have to rely on outside sources, our own contacts information, and yes, very much on the Sony and others press releases. This goes for myself, Huff, Petapixel, DpReview, F-Stoppers, Luminous, and all the rest who have already written something on the A7RII. We try our best as journalists, but nothing beats being an actual insider when it comes to writing about a particular manufacturer's new announced, but still unreleased, technology.
Chuck Jones

Hi Chuck:

When you handled the A7RII were you able to tell how good the autofocus was? I've been wondering when Sony would reach parity with a DSLR for both static and moving subjects.

Would love to hear your opinion.

 

[weinschela]

For me this camera is more about the fixes I needed. I don't expect to change anytime soon to be honest. This looks to be it for me.

I'm done chasing pie in the sky and big rainbows. I just want a good working system.

Guy, you should print out this post and hang it on your monitor. I cannot tell you the number of times I have said something similar. But then I weaken. Always happens. I do have a three year old D800E. Everything else is newer. But what's so bad about having some fun too?

 

[Godfrey]

The closest thing I know of in the way of an honest "review" is what Brian Smith wrote up as his Field Test trial here: http://briansmith.com/field-test-sony-a7rii/ Full disclosure, Brian is a Sony Artisan of Imagery, so he is compensated by Sony to use and write about their products.
...

I enjoyed reading his article. One little detail I found ironic and amusing. When talking about "5-Axis Image Stabilization Optimized for 42.4 MP", he suggested that Sony had shoehorned it into the A7 keeping size to a minimum and said, "..Great news is the a7RII body is a mere 10mm deeper than it’s predecessor."

At least one fellow on this forum, when I pointed out that a Leica M-P body was only 4mm thicker than a Leica M4-2 body (a dimension change of 11%), continued to insist that the M-P was fat and bloated compared to the film Ms. It'll be amusing to see how this fellow reacts to an A7RII that's a whole 10mm thicker (25% fatter; and never mind 160g (34%) heavier) than the one he's using now.

The A7RII looks like a fine piece of technology. I hope it's as good a camera as its specifications indicate. I look forward to hearing user reports by people who aren't in the review-blogger community.

G

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Even though bigger the A7II over the A7 and heavier also, it seems to fit me better for some reason. I heard this both ways though, some like the A7 body style better than the new one as well. Just depends what feels good in the hands. But let's be honest here too we are not talking real weight and real size here. When we get to pounds and inches than it really starts to count. Read many arguments over a few millimeters and a few grams that make my head spin. Not you but on the net it gets really nuts reading this stuff. It's kind of funny especially us film guys that came from 8x10 / 4x5 film days. Now that was a size and weight issue. LOL

 

[iiiNelson]

As I already pointed out, these "Artisans" have to be handled with a glove online.

As for the "honesty". Hmm... there are several shades. When Sony had few lenses for the FE, it is the same artisan who recommended a ZM 18/4 for A7r (!!!) and the NEX 10-18 f/4 zoom.

Soviet union had an official newspaper called "Pravda". LOL

The first "artisan" who writes an article critical of the crap load of NEX' and other blue labelled stuff that Sony churned out would make me believe.

Blue labeled or not the 55FE and 35FE Distagon are great lenses by most standards. Whether the NEX cameras were crap or not I can't say for certain. They did exhibit a tangible improvement to sensor technology that was available in the Micro 4/3 cameras at the time... So much so that Olympus andPanasonic incorporate custom versions of them now.

 

[iiiNelson]

I enjoyed reading his article. One little detail I found ironic and amusing. When talking about "5-Axis Image Stabilization Optimized for 42.4 MP", he suggested that Sony had shoehorned it into the A7 keeping size to a minimum and said, "..Great news is the a7RII body is a mere 10mm deeper than it’s predecessor."

At least one fellow on this forum, when I pointed out that a Leica M-P body was only 4mm thicker than a Leica M4-2 body (a dimension change of 11%), continued to insist that the M-P was fat and bloated compared to the film Ms. It'll be amusing to see how this fellow reacts to an A7RII that's a whole 10mm thicker (25% fatter; and never mind 160g (34%) heavier) than the one he's using now.

The A7RII looks like a fine piece of technology. I hope it's as good a camera as its specifications indicate. I look forward to hearing user reports by people who aren't in the review-blogger community.

G

The M may be many things but physically bloated isn't among them. When people say things like the M is too large I just dismiss rational thought from being associated with that person. Desire from a more svelte body is one thing... Calling it too large is another.

Sometimes people are too sensationalist regarding their personal desires. I enjoyed my M's in the past and the Monochrom (a product I was extremely wrong about initially) always interests me.

 

[ohnri]

Digital M's too large? Perish the thought.

Unless one has just been shooting with one's pristine M3 with DR Summicron.

Then they are fat and bloated.

Just my experience. YMMV

-Bill