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Zeiss Batis 25 photos

PP = "Increases in sharpness and saturation mostly"?

May we please see examples without sharpening and saturation? There's no need to sharpen images with a large sensor and with no AA filter. And if the question is how the lens itself performs on a given sensor, sharpening and saturation adjustments undo the point of posting. I wish we could see images with even the LR/ACR default sharpening turned off.

Sharpening messes with bokeh, so the bad bokeh attributed to the lens in the macro shot could just be sharpening?


Kirk
 

The Ute

Well-known member
PP = "Increases in sharpness and saturation mostly"?

May we please see examples without sharpening and saturation? There's no need to sharpen images with a large sensor and with no AA filter. And if the question is how the lens itself performs on a given sensor, sharpening and saturation adjustments undo the point of posting. I wish we could see images with even the LR/ACR default sharpening turned off.

Sharpening messes with bokeh, so the bad bokeh attributed to the lens in the macro shot could just be sharpening?


Kirk
Sorry but that's the way I handle my photos and I like some sharpening and saturation added.
Saying no sharpening is needed is just an opinion not a statement of fact.
I actually found that offensive.
Perhaps someone else will post them the way you prefer.
It won't be me.
When you start contributing some photos then maybe you can criticize.
How arrogant on your part.
 

Pradeep

Member
Here is one at the local park. SOOC except for a little brightening. No sharpening or lens corrections of any sort. f8, ISO 160, 1/90s

I must say, I tend to leave the default sharpening in LR as it is - in my case it is 25, 1.0, 25 usually. However, here I've disabled it.

What is interesting for me is that there is not much distortion with this lens. I do find it has some LoCA which disappears by f5.6 and slight vignetting wide open, otherwise it is close to perfect. I also like the bokeh a lot (will post some examples later).
 

Attachments

dmward

Member
This was shot while walking around my backyard doing some test shooting with the Batis 25mm.
The gallery also has versions shot at F4 and F5.6 of essentially the same view.
The gallery also has some other shots in the yard. I also went to the lake shore nearby and made a shot with the lens autofocusing on the horizon line.

The link to the gallery is: Zeiss 25mm Test Images - David M Ward Photographer - Chicago, IL

 
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"Sorry but that's the way I handle my photos and I like some sharpening and saturation added.
Saying no sharpening is needed is just an opinion not a statement of fact.
I actually found that offensive.
Perhaps someone else will post them the way you prefer.
It won't be me.
When you start contributing some photos then maybe you can criticize.
How arrogant on your part."

Sorry in turn, Ute, less for what I said than for the way you've taken it. We have multiple threads for posting our expressive images, Sony and otherwise, be they stitched, HDR-ed, sepia-toned, or whatever PP suits our taste. I assumed, more or less reasonably, that this is a thread to show what a new lens does, and that it'll be viewed by a number of members who are more interested in the lens than in individual post-processing preferences. From that standpoint it would be helpful if you folks who've already acquired the lens would post some more-or-less SOOC images on this particular thread, where where the lens itself is the subject. (Many thanks, Pradeep and David, for going ahead and doing so!)

IMO mine was in the ballpark of reasonable requests. You're of course welcome to refuse or disagree, but why take offense?

(BTW, You apparently decided I don't post images here without bothering to search. Again, you might reconsider a hasty opinion.)

Kirk
 
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The Ute

Well-known member
"Sorry but that's the way I handle my photos and I like some sharpening and saturation added.
Saying no sharpening is needed is just an opinion not a statement of fact.
I actually found that offensive.
Perhaps someone else will post them the way you prefer.
It won't be me.
When you start contributing some photos then maybe you can criticize.
How arrogant on your part."

Sorry in turn, Ute, less for what I said than for the way you've taken it. We have multiple threads for posting our expressive images, Sony and otherwise, be they stitched, HDR-ed, sepia-toned, or whatever PP suits our taste. I assumed, more or less reasonably, that this is a thread to show what a new lens does, and that it'll be viewed by a number of members who are more interested in the lens than in individual post-processing preferences. From that standpoint it would be helpful if you folks who've already acquired the lens would post some more-or-less SOOC images on this particular thread, where where the lens itself is the subject. (Many thanks, Pradeep and David, for going ahead and doing so!)

IMO mine was in the ballpark of reasonable requests. You're of course welcome to refuse or disagree, but why take offense?

(BTW, You apparently decided I don't post images here without bothering to search. Again, you might reconsider a hasty opinion.)

Kirk
I started this thread so I ought to be in an excellent position to judge it's purpose.
And just so we're clear it is to post Batis 25 photos for all to see. Plain and simple.
It is not designed as a teaching or technical thread per se.
If you want that Pradeep has an excellent one that might suit your needs better.
And finally, unless I violate the terms of use for this site I'll post what I want, when I want.
If you don't like what I have to offer skip my posts or go to another thread.
 

The Ute

Well-known member
It's clear that the original intent of this thread was to post images from a lens, the Zeiss Batis 25mm, that very few of us have seen, touched or shot with. "The Ute" was gracious enough to take some shots in his gorgeous "test spots" and share them with us. Others have joined in and done the same. Very few members of GetDPI, including Guy Mancuso, are capable of lens testing that would satisfy those looking for the absolute performance limitations of any lens. Even SOOC images that have been reduced to Web-sized JPEGs are no more than indicative of lens performance, not entirely useful for scientific lens comparisons and evaluation. Let's leave that to other threads and DxO. In the meantime, let's keep this thread civil, respecting the intent of the OP and those who have kindly shared their images with the rest of us (who are still waiting on the lens to arrive, or are trying to make a purchase decision). Just my two cents.

Joe[/QUOTE

Thanks for the kind words of support Joe. Much appreciated.
 

dmward

Member
I have 3 prime lenses between 24mm and 28mm that will fit my A7II; Sony 28/2.0, Ziess 25/2.0 and Canon 24 F1.4L.

I took them out into the backyard and made a series of exposures, from wide open to minimum aperture. With the two E mount lenses I let them find focus using the center focus bracket for each shot. Interestingly, with both E mount lenses, from about F11 to F22 the LCD screen image would pulse when the lens was focusing. Then make the exposure, apparently without a problem. The Canon 24mm L was mounted on a Fotodiox adapter and manual focused at the same center area. I used the greatest focus assist magnification. I did not change focus from shot-to-shot.

Here are full sized JPGs from the camera.
Apparently this forum software will accept the full sized image. Feel free to download the JPGs for to look at them more closely on your computer.

Will be interesting to hear what people think.

This one is the Zeiss 25/2.0 at F2. Camera was on a tripod, cable release with Av set and ISO 400. (EXIF is embedded in each image.)



This is the 28/2.0 Sony lens at F2. All camera settings remain the same throughout.



Canon 24 F1.4L at F1.4.



And finally, Canon 24 F1.4L at F2.0 for direct comparison with the two E mount lenses.

 
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dmward

Member
Now that I've determined that I can link to full sized JPGs, if anyone would like to see an image at a specific aperture let me know and I'll put the link in a post so all can share.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I have 3 prime lenses between 24mm and 28mm that will fit my A7II; Sony 28/2.0, Ziess 25/2.0 and Canon 24 F1.4L.

I took them out into the backyard and made a series of exposures, from wide open to minimum aperture. With the two E mount lenses I let them find focus using the center focus bracket for each shot. Interestingly, with both E mount lenses, from about F11 to F22 the LCD screen image would pulse when the lens was focusing. Then make the exposure, apparently without a problem. The Canon 24mm L was mounted on a Fotodiox adapter and manual focused at the same center area. I used the greatest focus assist magnification. I did not change focus from shot-to-shot.

Here are full sized JPGs from the camera.
Apparently this forum software will accept the full sized image. Feel free to download the JPGs for to look at them more closely on your computer.

Will be interesting to hear what people think.

This one is the Zeiss 25/2.0 at F2. Camera was on a tripod, cable release with Av set and ISO 400. (EXIF is embedded in each image.)



This is the 28/2.0 Sony lens at F2. All camera settings remain the same throughout.



Canon 24 F1.4L at F1.4.



And finally, Canon 24 F1.4L at F2.0 for direct comparison with the two E mount lenses.

Batis seems to have more microcontrast, warmer tones, and smoother bokeh in comparison to the other two (even in the web sized photos.) I'm sure the difference is even clearer in full sized prints. I'm still trying to decide (in my limited time with the lens) if I like it above the 35 Distagon which has been the best all around performing FE lens so far IMO.

The Canon bokeh seems nervous when stopped down even just one stop on this particular subject. The 28/2 punches above it's "weight class" and between it and the 35/2.8 I'd choose the 28 all day which says a lot about it if you understand how I feel about the 28mm focal length.
 

dmward

Member
I ran the Ziess 25/2.0 F2 image through two processing routines that I use with regularity.

This version was all done in Lightroom. Includes sharpening, clarity, a vignette to open the focus point a bit (.6EV) from the background and then saved as a JPG for the web with LR output sharpening set to screen/low.




This version was exported from Lightroom to Photoshop CC. Sharpening was turned off. I then ran a process action that includes sharpening, mid-tone contrast enhancement, some dynamic range extension. The PSD file was saved back to the Lightroom catalog and then exported as a JPG with the same export settings as the Lightroom Processed version.



Will be interesting to see observations.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I have 3 prime lenses between 24mm and 28mm that will fit my A7II; Sony 28/2.0, Ziess 25/2.0 and Canon 24 F1.4L.


Will be interesting to hear what people think.
My thoughts:

1) Sony appears the sharpest centrally, has neutral contrast, a neutral color rendering, and has the smoothest Bokeh.

2) Batis appears less sharp than Sony, but has higher contrast, has a slightly warm color rendering, and has slightly busier back Bokeh.

3) Canon appears perhaps as sharp as the Sony, with neutral contrast and color rendering, but has a very busy/streaky Bokeh.

* IF I were buying from these images, I would take the Sony. In fact, if anybody here is buying a Batis and wants to sell their Sony 28, please tag me first.
 

dmward

Member
Batis seems to have more microcontrast, warmer tones, and smoother bokeh in comparison to the other two (even in the web sized photos.) I'm sure the difference is even clearer in full sized prints. I'm still trying to decide (in my limited time with the lens) if I like it above the 35 Distagon which has been the best all around performing FE lens so far IMO.

The Canon bokeh seems nervous when stopped down even just one stop on this particular subject. The 28/2 punches above it's "weight class" and between it and the 35/2.8 I'd choose the 28 all day which says a lot about it if you understand how I feel about the 28mm focal length.
Looking at the images with your observations in mind, I see to what you're referring. The thing is, that micro contrast and color are so easy to tweak in Lightroom I don't think they are critical when evaluating a lens. Having no experience with 35mm other than a Canon L, I'll still agree that the Sony 28mm/F2 way outperforms its price point. It will be interesting to compare it with the 35 F1.4. I expect that it will be a lot closer than price suggests.

The Canon 24 is version one. I think there is now a version II which is likely to be a better performer. Although I have no complaints with my copy. I think I understand your term "nervous book". Its impact depends on the subject. If I were shooting a similar scene I'd either use a longer lens for more separation or a smaller F stop for deeper focus. i.e. I've never had a real concern for the bokah. It is what it is.
 

The Ute

Well-known member
Another one of my favorite test spots.
This one is going to hurt your eyes so eye protection is advised before viewing. :)
 

mjm6

Member
My thoughts:

1) Sony appears the sharpest centrally, has neutral contrast, a neutral color rendering, and has the smoothest Bokeh.

2) Batis appears less sharp than Sony, but has higher contrast, has a slightly warm color rendering, and has slightly busier back Bokeh.

3) Canon appears perhaps as sharp as the Sony, with neutral contrast and color rendering, but has a very busy/streaky Bokeh.

* IF I were buying from these images, I would take the Sony. In fact, if anybody here is buying a Batis and wants to sell their Sony 28, please tag me first.
I don't think I agree with either #1 or #2...

Hard to tell from the images, and you may be right, but I feel like I am seeing more in the Batis in the central focus area, and it also appears to have a slightly less "double image" character to the bokeh.

However, I do agree with #3!

This composition doesn't have many strong pinpoint highlights to easily evaluate the bokeh, but it does clearly show differences in the lenses, and my initial impression is that the Batis feels smoother.

I'm a strong disliker of the 28mm focal length, so would go for the 25mm (and wish it were actually a 24mm!).

Thanks for the images David! Really helpful, and make me feel better about the Batis' rendering, although it still isn't perfect for my tastes.


---Michael
 
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