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Thread: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

  1. #1
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Taken w the A7R tripod mounted @ f8
    I'll give a real test in the coming days.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Got out to one my favorite test spots today.
    I'm impressed.
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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Got out to one my favorite test spots today.
    I'm impressed.
    I am, too. Both by the photograph and by your "test spot". Beats the hell out of my backyard.

    Joe
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    And here is one more from the same location.
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    I am, too. Both by the photograph and by your "test spot". Beats the hell out of my backyard.

    Joe
    I don't know where you live Joe but thanks a lot for the compliment.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Great shots, but to really really see, I like a longer shot with distant details at edges and at least one corner. That's when the Sony sensors struggle most.

    But the lens sure looks great in these

    A close look shows some softness in the corners, but impossible to really tell without a direct from RAW (no pp), long shot, at infinity.
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Great shots, but to really really see, I like a longer shot with distant details at edges and at least one corner. That's when the Sony sensors struggle most.

    But the lens sure looks great in these

    A close look shows some softness in the corners, but impossible to really tell without a direct from RAW (no pp), long shot, at infinity.
    All these were shot @ f8 tripod mounted w remote release.
    Still learning. Slot canyons w this range of light are not easy subjects.

  8. #8
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Just one more for today.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Great shots, but to really really see, I like a longer shot with distant details at edges and at least one corner. That's when the Sony sensors struggle most.

    But the lens sure looks great in these

    A close look shows some softness in the corners, but impossible to really tell without a direct from RAW (no pp), long shot, at infinity.
    Here's a couple from Atlantic City yesterday, no sharpening, just adjusted the exposure, both at 5.6, the second image is cropped a bit unfortunately.
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    One more from my continuing test drive of the Batis 25.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    One more from my continuing test drive of the Batis 25.

    Any processing from RAW for all the images?

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Any processing from RAW for all the images?
    No. Just some processing of the jpegs so far.
    Increases in sharpness and saturation mostly.
    I use Topaz adjust for most of my post processing.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    No. Just some processing of the jpegs so far.
    Increases in sharpness and saturation mostly.
    I use Topaz adjust for most of my post processing.
    Thanks, I was wondering how they got so sharp and rich.

    What I've noted though is that the lens is really so sharp that even SOOC it is very impressive.

  14. #14
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Here's a macro shot wide open.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Thanks, I was wondering how they got so sharp and rich.

    What I've noted though is that the lens is really so sharp that even SOOC it is very impressive.
    The files seem highly malleable. Leaves you w all sorts of options.

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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Pradeep and "The Ute", thanks for posting these photos. Very sharp corner-to-corner, edge-to-edge. It'll be interesting to see how this lens performs on the a7R II. In the meantime, keep the shots coming.

    Joe
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Pradeep and "The Ute", thanks for posting these photos. Very sharp corner-to-corner, edge-to-edge. It'll be interesting to see how this lens performs on the a7R II. In the meantime, keep the shots coming.

    Joe
    You're welcome. The pleasure is all mine.
    I could not afford both the 7rII and the Batis so I decided to just go w the lens.

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    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Well, it is a bit disappointing, but maybe not a deal breaker.

    It has what appears to be excellent hyperfocal performance in the landscapes. It doesn't feel like there is anything more you can get out of images like those.

    However, in the last shot (the macro flower nead/far shot), the lens exhibits disturbing nervousness in the OOF areas about midway back in the field. You can see rendering halos in the field.

    So, a Mandler-rendering-style lens, this is not. I'm not sure if absolute optical correction for color and sharpness in modern lenses is mutually exclusive of smooth bokeh, but neither Leica nor Zeiss appear to be trying to maintain a smooth transition to OOF areas in their lenses, and I find it somewhat disappointing.

    That said, I am running a Sony/Minolta 24mm A lens on the a7r and was hoping that the Batis would be a good replacement for that (I want native FE mount lenses). I still think it might, but I'll have to do a bit more image evaluation before I decide to make the purchase. At this point, it's clearly not an improvement over my existing available lens.


    Keep up the great shots, I think the images a very useful to see the capabilities, and you certainly can't beat the subject matter an location!


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    Well, it is a bit disappointing, but maybe not a deal breaker.

    It has what appears to be excellent hyperfocal performance in the landscapes. It doesn't feel like there is anything more you can get out of images like those.

    However, in the last shot (the macro flower nead/far shot), the lens exhibits disturbing nervousness in the OOF areas about midway back in the field. You can see rendering halos in the field.

    So, a Mandler-rendering-style lens, this is not. I'm not sure if absolute optical correction for color and sharpness in modern lenses is mutually exclusive of smooth bokeh, but neither Leica nor Zeiss appear to be trying to maintain a smooth transition to OOF areas in their lenses, and I find it somewhat disappointing.

    That said, I am running a Sony/Minolta 24mm A lens on the a7r and was hoping that the Batis would be a good replacement for that (I want native FE mount lenses). I still think it might, but I'll have to do a bit more image evaluation before I decide to make the purchase. At this point, it's clearly not an improvement over my existing available lens.


    Keep up the great shots, I think the images a very useful to see the capabilities, and you certainly can't beat the subject matter an location!


    ---Michael
    Perhaps it was just poor technique on my part ?
    I am not really a Macro guy.
    I'll try to post some others when I get a chance.
    And you are welcome.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Perhaps it was just poor technique on my part ?
    I am not really a Macro guy.
    I'll try to post some others when I get a chance.
    And you are welcome.
    No, I don't think it is technique. It is in the optical formula for the lens. There are lots of examples of this in modern lenses if you go out and look for it.

    The effect may be reduced with aperture changes, so it may be an example of avoiding the larger apertures for smoother results possibly.

    This is all opinion, though. Some people don't find the OOF areas objectionable and others will. My feeling is that I don't wan the optical characteristics to create so strong of a signature that they detract from the image composition. For most cases, that means I want a smooth bokeh in the OOF areas.

    Overall, I think the images look great, and I am tempted to get the lens to test and see if it will meet my expectations.

    I have the 16-35mm zoom, so I don't really need this focal length independently, but I do suspect the Batis will outperform the zoom at that focal length. That's about the point where the performance falls off on the zoom. I really bought it for the 16-20mm range, figuring I would get the 25mm (or continue using the 24mm Minolta A lens I have).


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Senior Member mjm6's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Here's a very good comparison of the effect that optical design has on the way various lenses render. One is the new FE 28mm, another a Zeiss 28, and two older Minolta 28's.

    http://phillipreeve.net/blog/old-new...inolta-mc-228/

    Scroll through and you can see that the Sony lens has clearly smoother bokeh, but there are trade-offs associated.


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    No, I don't think it is technique. It is in the optical formula for the lens. There are lots of examples of this in modern lenses if you go out and look for it.

    The effect may be reduced with aperture changes, so it may be an example of avoiding the larger apertures for smoother results possibly.

    This is all opinion, though. Some people don't find the OOF areas objectionable and others will. My feeling is that I don't wan the optical characteristics to create so strong of a signature that they detract from the image composition. For most cases, that means I want a smooth bokeh in the OOF areas.

    Overall, I think the images look great, and I am tempted to get the lens to test and see if it will meet my expectations.

    I have the 16-35mm zoom, so I don't really need this focal length independently, but I do suspect the Batis will outperform the zoom at that focal length. That's about the point where the performance falls off on the zoom. I really bought it for the 16-20mm range, figuring I would get the 25mm (or continue using the 24mm Minolta A lens I have).


    ---Michael
    I hope folks will use this thread as place to show their Batis 25 photos.
    I intend to keep placing mine here.
    If it serves as more then that is an added bonus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    No, I don't think it is technique. It is in the optical formula for the lens. There are lots of examples of this in modern lenses if you go out and look for it.

    The effect may be reduced with aperture changes, so it may be an example of avoiding the larger apertures for smoother results possibly.

    This is all opinion, though. Some people don't find the OOF areas objectionable and others will. My feeling is that I don't wan the optical characteristics to create so strong of a signature that they detract from the image composition. For most cases, that means I want a smooth bokeh in the OOF areas.

    Overall, I think the images look great, and I am tempted to get the lens to test and see if it will meet my expectations.

    I have the 16-35mm zoom, so I don't really need this focal length independently, but I do suspect the Batis will outperform the zoom at that focal length. That's about the point where the performance falls off on the zoom. I really bought it for the 16-20mm range, figuring I would get the 25mm (or continue using the 24mm Minolta A lens I have).


    ---Michael
    I hope folks will use this thread as place to show their Batis 25 photos.
    I intend to keep placing mine here.
    If it serves as more then that is an added bonus.
    Since my primary interest is Landscape the lens should work well for me.
    On the A7r it feels nice and light which is also what I was after.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    PP = "Increases in sharpness and saturation mostly"?

    May we please see examples without sharpening and saturation? There's no need to sharpen images with a large sensor and with no AA filter. And if the question is how the lens itself performs on a given sensor, sharpening and saturation adjustments undo the point of posting. I wish we could see images with even the LR/ACR default sharpening turned off.

    Sharpening messes with bokeh, so the bad bokeh attributed to the lens in the macro shot could just be sharpening?


    Kirk

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    PP = "Increases in sharpness and saturation mostly"?

    May we please see examples without sharpening and saturation? There's no need to sharpen images with a large sensor and with no AA filter. And if the question is how the lens itself performs on a given sensor, sharpening and saturation adjustments undo the point of posting. I wish we could see images with even the LR/ACR default sharpening turned off.

    Sharpening messes with bokeh, so the bad bokeh attributed to the lens in the macro shot could just be sharpening?


    Kirk
    Sorry but that's the way I handle my photos and I like some sharpening and saturation added.
    Saying no sharpening is needed is just an opinion not a statement of fact.
    I actually found that offensive.
    Perhaps someone else will post them the way you prefer.
    It won't be me.
    When you start contributing some photos then maybe you can criticize.
    How arrogant on your part.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Here is one at the local park. SOOC except for a little brightening. No sharpening or lens corrections of any sort. f8, ISO 160, 1/90s

    I must say, I tend to leave the default sharpening in LR as it is - in my case it is 25, 1.0, 25 usually. However, here I've disabled it.

    What is interesting for me is that there is not much distortion with this lens. I do find it has some LoCA which disappears by f5.6 and slight vignetting wide open, otherwise it is close to perfect. I also like the bokeh a lot (will post some examples later).
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    This was shot while walking around my backyard doing some test shooting with the Batis 25mm.
    The gallery also has versions shot at F4 and F5.6 of essentially the same view.
    The gallery also has some other shots in the yard. I also went to the lake shore nearby and made a shot with the lens autofocusing on the horizon line.

    The link to the gallery is: Zeiss 25mm Test Images - David M Ward Photographer - Chicago, IL

    Last edited by dmward; 27th July 2015 at 21:43.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    "Sorry but that's the way I handle my photos and I like some sharpening and saturation added.
    Saying no sharpening is needed is just an opinion not a statement of fact.
    I actually found that offensive.
    Perhaps someone else will post them the way you prefer.
    It won't be me.
    When you start contributing some photos then maybe you can criticize.
    How arrogant on your part."

    Sorry in turn, Ute, less for what I said than for the way you've taken it. We have multiple threads for posting our expressive images, Sony and otherwise, be they stitched, HDR-ed, sepia-toned, or whatever PP suits our taste. I assumed, more or less reasonably, that this is a thread to show what a new lens does, and that it'll be viewed by a number of members who are more interested in the lens than in individual post-processing preferences. From that standpoint it would be helpful if you folks who've already acquired the lens would post some more-or-less SOOC images on this particular thread, where where the lens itself is the subject. (Many thanks, Pradeep and David, for going ahead and doing so!)

    IMO mine was in the ballpark of reasonable requests. You're of course welcome to refuse or disagree, but why take offense?

    (BTW, You apparently decided I don't post images here without bothering to search. Again, you might reconsider a hasty opinion.)

    Kirk
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 27th July 2015 at 23:02.

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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    "Sorry but that's the way I handle my photos and I like some sharpening and saturation added.
    Saying no sharpening is needed is just an opinion not a statement of fact.
    I actually found that offensive.
    Perhaps someone else will post them the way you prefer.
    It won't be me.
    When you start contributing some photos then maybe you can criticize.
    How arrogant on your part."

    Sorry in turn, Ute, less for what I said than for the way you've taken it. We have multiple threads for posting our expressive images, Sony and otherwise, be they stitched, HDR-ed, sepia-toned, or whatever PP suits our taste. I assumed, more or less reasonably, that this is a thread to show what a new lens does, and that it'll be viewed by a number of members who are more interested in the lens than in individual post-processing preferences. From that standpoint it would be helpful if you folks who've already acquired the lens would post some more-or-less SOOC images on this particular thread, where where the lens itself is the subject. (Many thanks, Pradeep and David, for going ahead and doing so!)

    IMO mine was in the ballpark of reasonable requests. You're of course welcome to refuse or disagree, but why take offense?

    (BTW, You apparently decided I don't post images here without bothering to search. Again, you might reconsider a hasty opinion.)

    Kirk
    I started this thread so I ought to be in an excellent position to judge it's purpose.
    And just so we're clear it is to post Batis 25 photos for all to see. Plain and simple.
    It is not designed as a teaching or technical thread per se.
    If you want that Pradeep has an excellent one that might suit your needs better.
    And finally, unless I violate the terms of use for this site I'll post what I want, when I want.
    If you don't like what I have to offer skip my posts or go to another thread.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    Sorry in turn, Ute, less for what I said than for the way you've taken it. We have multiple threads for posting our expressive images, Sony and otherwise, be they stitched, HDR-ed, sepia-toned, or whatever PP suits our taste. I assumed, more or less reasonably, that this is a thread to show what a new lens does, and that it'll be viewed by a number of members who are more interested in the lens than in individual post-processing preferences. From that standpoint it would be helpful if you folks who've already acquired the lens would post some more-or-less SOOC images on this particular thread, where where the lens itself is the subject. (Many thanks, Pradeep and David, for going ahead and doing so!)

    IMO mine was in the ballpark of reasonable requests. You're of course welcome to refuse or disagree, but why take offense?

    (BTW, You apparently decided I don't post images here without bothering to search. Again, you might reconsider a hasty opinion.)

    Kirk
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    I started this thread so I ought to be in an excellent position to judge it's purpose.
    And just so we're clear it is to post Batis 25 photos for all to see. Plain and simple.
    It is not designed as a teaching or technical thread per se.
    If you want that Pradeep has an excellent one that might suit your needs better.
    And finally, unless I violate the terms of use for this site I'll post what I want, when I want.
    If you don't like what I have to offer skip my posts or go to another thread.
    It's clear that the original intent of this thread was to post images from a lens, the Zeiss Batis 25mm, that very few of us have seen, touched or shot with. "The Ute" was gracious enough to take some shots in his gorgeous "test spots" and share them with us. Others have joined in and done the same. Very few members of GetDPI, including Guy Mancuso, are capable of lens testing that would satisfy those looking for the absolute performance limitations of any lens. Even SOOC images that have been reduced to Web-sized JPEGs are no more than indicative of lens performance, not entirely useful for scientific lens comparisons and evaluation. Let's leave that to other threads and DxO. In the meantime, let's keep this thread civil, respecting the intent of the OP and those who have kindly shared their images with the rest of us (who are still waiting on the lens to arrive, or are trying to make a purchase decision). Just my two cents.

    Joe
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Well, that escalated quickly?!
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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  31. #31
    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    [QUOTE=Joe Colson;651825]It's clear that the original intent of this thread was to post images from a lens, the Zeiss Batis 25mm, that very few of us have seen, touched or shot with. "The Ute" was gracious enough to take some shots in his gorgeous "test spots" and share them with us. Others have joined in and done the same. Very few members of GetDPI, including Guy Mancuso, are capable of lens testing that would satisfy those looking for the absolute performance limitations of any lens. Even SOOC images that have been reduced to Web-sized JPEGs are no more than indicative of lens performance, not entirely useful for scientific lens comparisons and evaluation. Let's leave that to other threads and DxO. In the meantime, let's keep this thread civil, respecting the intent of the OP and those who have kindly shared their images with the rest of us (who are still waiting on the lens to arrive, or are trying to make a purchase decision). Just my two cents.

    Joe[/QUOTE

    Thanks for the kind words of support Joe. Much appreciated.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    SOOC - 25 Batis... Boring subjects

    Batis 2 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    SOOC - 25 Batis... Boring subjects

    Batis 2 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
    Boring perhaps, but nevertheless "kekke schoenen", Tre

    Yes, go on google it ...

    All the best.
    Bart ...

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Boring perhaps, but nevertheless "kekke schoenen", Tre

    Yes, go on google it ...

    All the best.
    Thanks and I will have to Google what I assume is Dutch for "something shoe..."
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    I have 3 prime lenses between 24mm and 28mm that will fit my A7II; Sony 28/2.0, Ziess 25/2.0 and Canon 24 F1.4L.

    I took them out into the backyard and made a series of exposures, from wide open to minimum aperture. With the two E mount lenses I let them find focus using the center focus bracket for each shot. Interestingly, with both E mount lenses, from about F11 to F22 the LCD screen image would pulse when the lens was focusing. Then make the exposure, apparently without a problem. The Canon 24mm L was mounted on a Fotodiox adapter and manual focused at the same center area. I used the greatest focus assist magnification. I did not change focus from shot-to-shot.

    Here are full sized JPGs from the camera.
    Apparently this forum software will accept the full sized image. Feel free to download the JPGs for to look at them more closely on your computer.

    Will be interesting to hear what people think.

    This one is the Zeiss 25/2.0 at F2. Camera was on a tripod, cable release with Av set and ISO 400. (EXIF is embedded in each image.)



    This is the 28/2.0 Sony lens at F2. All camera settings remain the same throughout.



    Canon 24 F1.4L at F1.4.



    And finally, Canon 24 F1.4L at F2.0 for direct comparison with the two E mount lenses.

    Last edited by dmward; 28th July 2015 at 13:13.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Now that I've determined that I can link to full sized JPGs, if anyone would like to see an image at a specific aperture let me know and I'll put the link in a post so all can share.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    I have 3 prime lenses between 24mm and 28mm that will fit my A7II; Sony 28/2.0, Ziess 25/2.0 and Canon 24 F1.4L.

    I took them out into the backyard and made a series of exposures, from wide open to minimum aperture. With the two E mount lenses I let them find focus using the center focus bracket for each shot. Interestingly, with both E mount lenses, from about F11 to F22 the LCD screen image would pulse when the lens was focusing. Then make the exposure, apparently without a problem. The Canon 24mm L was mounted on a Fotodiox adapter and manual focused at the same center area. I used the greatest focus assist magnification. I did not change focus from shot-to-shot.

    Here are full sized JPGs from the camera.
    Apparently this forum software will accept the full sized image. Feel free to download the JPGs for to look at them more closely on your computer.

    Will be interesting to hear what people think.

    This one is the Zeiss 25/2.0 at F2. Camera was on a tripod, cable release with Av set and ISO 400. (EXIF is embedded in each image.)



    This is the 28/2.0 Sony lens at F2. All camera settings remain the same throughout.



    Canon 24 F1.4L at F1.4.



    And finally, Canon 24 F1.4L at F2.0 for direct comparison with the two E mount lenses.

    Batis seems to have more microcontrast, warmer tones, and smoother bokeh in comparison to the other two (even in the web sized photos.) I'm sure the difference is even clearer in full sized prints. I'm still trying to decide (in my limited time with the lens) if I like it above the 35 Distagon which has been the best all around performing FE lens so far IMO.

    The Canon bokeh seems nervous when stopped down even just one stop on this particular subject. The 28/2 punches above it's "weight class" and between it and the 35/2.8 I'd choose the 28 all day which says a lot about it if you understand how I feel about the 28mm focal length.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    I ran the Ziess 25/2.0 F2 image through two processing routines that I use with regularity.

    This version was all done in Lightroom. Includes sharpening, clarity, a vignette to open the focus point a bit (.6EV) from the background and then saved as a JPG for the web with LR output sharpening set to screen/low.




    This version was exported from Lightroom to Photoshop CC. Sharpening was turned off. I then ran a process action that includes sharpening, mid-tone contrast enhancement, some dynamic range extension. The PSD file was saved back to the Lightroom catalog and then exported as a JPG with the same export settings as the Lightroom Processed version.



    Will be interesting to see observations.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    I have 3 prime lenses between 24mm and 28mm that will fit my A7II; Sony 28/2.0, Ziess 25/2.0 and Canon 24 F1.4L.


    Will be interesting to hear what people think.
    My thoughts:

    1) Sony appears the sharpest centrally, has neutral contrast, a neutral color rendering, and has the smoothest Bokeh.

    2) Batis appears less sharp than Sony, but has higher contrast, has a slightly warm color rendering, and has slightly busier back Bokeh.

    3) Canon appears perhaps as sharp as the Sony, with neutral contrast and color rendering, but has a very busy/streaky Bokeh.

    * IF I were buying from these images, I would take the Sony. In fact, if anybody here is buying a Batis and wants to sell their Sony 28, please tag me first.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Batis seems to have more microcontrast, warmer tones, and smoother bokeh in comparison to the other two (even in the web sized photos.) I'm sure the difference is even clearer in full sized prints. I'm still trying to decide (in my limited time with the lens) if I like it above the 35 Distagon which has been the best all around performing FE lens so far IMO.

    The Canon bokeh seems nervous when stopped down even just one stop on this particular subject. The 28/2 punches above it's "weight class" and between it and the 35/2.8 I'd choose the 28 all day which says a lot about it if you understand how I feel about the 28mm focal length.
    Looking at the images with your observations in mind, I see to what you're referring. The thing is, that micro contrast and color are so easy to tweak in Lightroom I don't think they are critical when evaluating a lens. Having no experience with 35mm other than a Canon L, I'll still agree that the Sony 28mm/F2 way outperforms its price point. It will be interesting to compare it with the 35 F1.4. I expect that it will be a lot closer than price suggests.

    The Canon 24 is version one. I think there is now a version II which is likely to be a better performer. Although I have no complaints with my copy. I think I understand your term "nervous book". Its impact depends on the subject. If I were shooting a similar scene I'd either use a longer lens for more separation or a smaller F stop for deeper focus. i.e. I've never had a real concern for the bokah. It is what it is.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Another one of my favorite test spots.
    This one is going to hurt your eyes so eye protection is advised before viewing.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Snow Canyon State park.
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    My thoughts:

    1) Sony appears the sharpest centrally, has neutral contrast, a neutral color rendering, and has the smoothest Bokeh.

    2) Batis appears less sharp than Sony, but has higher contrast, has a slightly warm color rendering, and has slightly busier back Bokeh.

    3) Canon appears perhaps as sharp as the Sony, with neutral contrast and color rendering, but has a very busy/streaky Bokeh.

    * IF I were buying from these images, I would take the Sony. In fact, if anybody here is buying a Batis and wants to sell their Sony 28, please tag me first.
    I don't think I agree with either #1 or #2...

    Hard to tell from the images, and you may be right, but I feel like I am seeing more in the Batis in the central focus area, and it also appears to have a slightly less "double image" character to the bokeh.

    However, I do agree with #3!

    This composition doesn't have many strong pinpoint highlights to easily evaluate the bokeh, but it does clearly show differences in the lenses, and my initial impression is that the Batis feels smoother.

    I'm a strong disliker of the 28mm focal length, so would go for the 25mm (and wish it were actually a 24mm!).

    Thanks for the images David! Really helpful, and make me feel better about the Batis' rendering, although it still isn't perfect for my tastes.


    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post

    I'm a strong disliker of the 28mm focal length, so would go for the 25mm (and wish it were actually a 24mm!).

    Thanks for the images David! Really helpful, and make me feel better about the Batis' rendering, although it still isn't perfect for my tastes.


    ---Michael
    You're welcome.
    I was looking at the three images after reading John's comments and noticed something interesting about the field of view.

    The Batis image shows more on all sides than the 24mm Canon. I'm basing this on the fact that I can see more of specific flower or stem elements on each edge. Not sure why. The Canon lens front element, given its size and the need for an adapter, was a bit closer to the scene. Not sure that was sufficient to create the difference in field of view.

    I guess the best test would be to use a focus rail on the tripod so that the front element of each lens is at the same distance from the focus point.

    I also realized after doing this that I could have included the Canon TSE 24 II, its slower but probably the sharpest of the group. If I get a change I'll do a bit more playing later this week. I'll also try to find a more appealing scene.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Well I can't judge anything with LR, hate that program on just about every level. But that's me. I'll take the Batis over anything except the Canon 24 TSE. Having the 35 1.4 even though a nice lens the 28 just does not fit in. I'm first and foremost a lens cap 35mm FOV guy. So 28 just does not gap well. Having the Batis 85 I'm pretty happy with how they function.

    I'll make this very clear, you don't like your Batis 25 I'll buy it right now for full price.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Another one of my favorite test spots.
    This one is going to hurt your eyes so eye protection is advised before viewing.
    Very nice
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well I can't judge anything with LR, hate that program on just about every level. But that's me. I'll take the Batis over anything except the Canon 24 TSE. Having the 35 1.4 even though a nice lens the 28 just does not fit in. I'm first and foremost a lens cap 35mm FOV guy. So 28 just does not gap well. Having the Batis 85 I'm pretty happy with how they function.

    I'll make this very clear, you don't like your Batis 25 I'll buy it right now for full price.
    Guy,
    Just a reminder; the four original images I posted were the camera JPGs. No processing applied outside the camera. The second two were to illustrate Lightroom and Photoshop processing options on the image shot with the Batis. No intention to say that Lightroom, or Photoshop was required to improve the file. My guess is that C1 or other processing software would do a good job. The best part is starting with a quality raw file.

    Lightroom takes getting used to.
    I think of using Lightroom for processing like a commercial lab that runs everything through a machine. Acceptable for the middle 80% but not going to get it done for the outer 10% at either end. That's why the CC package is so useful for my purposes.

    Since you use MF, I expect you've become comfortable with C1. That's a program I can't get my head into. I've used it when working on projects with other photographers who had it as their primary software, but its just not an interface that I can get my head around.

    I've done print projects with color management from the raw file through the press proofs and the final printing. Lightroom to Photoshop to Indesign to printer. Smooth as silk. Its what one gets used to.

    As for the 28mm field of view. I agree wholeheartedly. My favored prime kit for years was 24, 35, 90 or 105.

    I like the Batis build, its light, smooth functioning and makes nice images. The 28 is REALLY small but not a lens I crave. It's probably the one to do. Although at its price point it may be work keeping in the case "just in case".
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Another one of my favorite test spots.
    This one is going to hurt your eyes so eye protection is advised before viewing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ute View Post
    Snow Canyon State park.
    Nice. Love the sharpness and DOF. Thanks for posting.

    Joe
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    Senior Member The Ute's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Nice. Love the sharpness and DOF. Thanks for posting.

    Joe
    You're welcome. My pleasure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Very nice
    Thanks. Much appreciated.

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    Re: Zeiss Batis 25 photos

    Pine Valley Utah in bloom.
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