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Thread: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Without ado and after about 100 frames, therefore highly provisional...

    I like it but it is a bit noisier than I was expecting. There's even a hint, tiny, of banding at mid (3200) ISO but that might be an exposure issue, because the 'blinkies' panic much much too early, encouraging one to underexpose. In general, using the multi meter seems never to actually overexpose but often to warn you that it has.

    Files don't respond well to Clarity in LR - they quickly break up in not-a-good-way.

    For some weird reason I find that 60/0.7/70/20 for sharpening works well but that even at lower ISO, a touch of NR seems to clean the files up without removing significant detail. I need to do a lot more exploration on this.

    WB seems to me more than usually tricky and I will use a WB card when it matters.

    It shows the weakness in lenses like crazy. Even my treasured 16-35 looks asymmetrical and a bit stressed in ways I never noticed before. But the 55mm F1.8 works superbly.

    It feels great and the shutter is SO much nicer.

    More to come, if anyone is interested, as I explore - though I do think that these things take weeks rather than days to clarify in one's mind....

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I like it but it is a bit noisier than I was expecting.
    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Files don't respond well to Clarity in LR - they quickly break up in not-a-good-way.
    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    WB seems to me more than usually tricky and I will use a WB card when it matters.
    Tim, thanks for the RAW files.

    How would you compare each of these characteristics with the Nikon D810 (which as I recall, you have in the gear closet)? I'll get my a7R II tomorrow and also have a D810. I'm curious about how the two cameras compare wrt noise, file malleability and WB accuracy.

    I have used the 60/0.7/70/20 sharpening preset since early days. Thanks for that recipe.

    Joe

    P.S. Always good to have a "Tim Ashley sighting".
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Even my treasured 16-35 looks asymmetrical...
    How does a lens look "asymmetrical", and what does that mean ?

    - Leigh

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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
    How does a lens look "asymmetrical", and what does that mean ?

    - Leigh
    I think he means decentered, aka some corners looks sharper than others.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    i would love to see these high MP sensor stress Otus and ZF/ZE 135mm. but probably not there yet.
    Keep It Simple.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    @ Joe, nice to hear from you!

    I have been resisting the temptation to take out the D810 and try to shoot them side by side with the same lens because in a way, though I too want the answer, you'd have to take so many shots under so many circumstances to 'prove' anything and even then, you'd likely have proven that thing only to yourself. My first impression being that the files were a little noisier and a little sensitive to the clarity slider do seem to have been because of the panicking blinkies. I totally get the 'expose to the right' school of thought but frankly, until these cameras have RAW histograms and highlight warnings, I will always tend to underexpose on the basis that you can generally save a shadow or lose it to darkness but you can never save a non-specular blown patch.

    Now I've got that under consideration as I shoot, the files are very nice. I would say that at a pixel level and from ISO 800 onwards, there may be a tiny touch more noise than the D810 but that DR seems better. I would also say that that with the exception of the video features, I still feel that the D810 has a better feature set and better ergos but that it's size and weight outweigh those advantages so I provisionally prefer the Sony. But honestly, this is angels on pinheads. The IQ on both is fabulous.

    As for WB I'd need to shoot it a lot more to have a view. But it feels a touch trickier maybe?

    @Leigh, as Anna says, I am referring to a lens which has some de-centered element or group which manifests as files with one side of the sensor being in less sharp focus than the other on a planar target. It's a lot more complex than that in real life though...
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    I would be most interested in side by comparisons with a D810. There are rumors that the (A7R II) DR suffers with longer exposures and continuous use.

    I want to be convinced that it (A7R II) is really a 3500 Euro camera and not a 2500 Euro camera with marginal improvements over the A7R.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I would be most interested in side by comparisons with a D810. There are rumors that the (A7R II) DR suffers with longer exposures and continuous use.

    I want to be convinced that it (A7R II) is really a 3500 Euro camera and not a 2500 Euro camera with marginal improvements over the A7R.

    And in a way, I think that's why I don't want to run the comparison. It sounds so simple but the exact methodology would be disputed along more or less 'religious' lines and even then, there would be things 'left out' such as long exposure, continuous use, processing both in camera and in post, pre-cooking of RAW, concepts of the meaning of base ISO, etc etc ad infinitum and then rapidly ad nauseum. It would be a foolhardy person who put themselves in that firing line.

    Maybe I should?

    But one thing that people are overlooking somewhat is that the A7RII has a base ISO of 800 and the D810 has a base ISO of 64. That means that there is no such thing as apples to apples here: the sensors are fundamentally rather different animals. That's around a three and a half stop difference - and if base ISO is the ISO at which a camera has the most DR (is it?) then one might even find that the Sony has its best DR at an ISO which doesn't optimise its noise performance. Just thinking out loud here....
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Tim I have to agree with you. Honestly I would not do it, it really has gotten so weird in the industry with reviewers. People are listening to some real inexperienced players, bloggers and taking some of the junk they are throwing out as Gospel and the few experienced players not getting a cut from it all are being ignored and put on the back burner. Honestly I have yet to see anyone do a in depth review of anything. It's more come down to one hit wonder posts. To be honest from my seat it's really frustrating to watch really bad info being passed around like gospel. I'm so furious right now at the lack of reporting Canon lenses after 2006 can really only be used and that data just came out a couple days ago. Where the hell was those reviews last week or older not reporting this critical data. That's irresponsible reporting.

    From me personally as a guy that does very good reviews , not sure I want my name associated with this anymore. I love doing them for our members but after our doors I have zero interest. i will still do what I think our readers need to know but no manufacture has knocked on my door to even thank me. My rant could be very long here but I'll head for that second espresso instead.

    Glad to see you hanging out again with your friends here.
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Thanks for the welcome back Guy, and I totally agree. There's no test as useful as a well developed personal opinion based on seeing zillions of files from many many cameras and lenses. But that opinion takes a while to develop and has to be formed within the context of a pretty subtle understanding of a whole load of parameters and criteria.

    Having said that, and for within these doors only, and with no opinion given, and because frankly someone's gotta do it. I shot some comparisons at ISO 64, 1600 and 3200 and from them I learned enough to know whether I should knock out my D810 and lenses while prices are still good.

    A7RII with 55 FE
    D810 with Sigma Art

    I could have used the same lens on both but I didn't because I can't find my adaptor. Such is real world testing. That means that, assuming we are looking not for resolution but for noise and malleability, the only possible significant variable is the T stop. DXO says their T stops at max aperture are within 0.1 of each other. Who knows what they are at the aperture I used here - I trust my nose. But I won't give my conclusions, just links to the RAW files.

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    Anyone is free to draw their own, or no, conclusions from this but please don't have a go at me about the methodology: I am pretty well aware of what the 'test' means and doesn't mean. It's useful to me, I am sharing it for that reason and not because I think it should mean anything in particular to anyone else or in general....
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Tim I have to agree with you. Honestly I would not do it, it really has gotten so weird in the industry with reviewers. ....................
    There is almost always an inherent bias in any review. It is in the nature of human beings to be biased, it is hard-wired into our brains. I could go on about all the different biases we live with in our daily life but keeping it to camera gear, I agree with you completely.

    It is often difficult for an average user to look at reviews and make up their minds. Most have already made the decision to buy or not to buy, which is largely based on affordability and lust for new gear and much less on need.

    Even looking at RAW files on the net does not really provide an ideal environment, IMHO.

    Yes, there truly are very few, completely independent reviewers who are not in some way influenced by their own pre-conceived notions or by financial gain.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    And in a way, I think that's why I don't want to run the comparison. It sounds so simple but the exact methodology would be disputed along more or less 'religious' lines and even then, there would be things 'left out' such as long exposure, continuous use, processing both in camera and in post, pre-cooking of RAW, concepts of the meaning of base ISO, etc etc ad infinitum and then rapidly ad nauseum. It would be a foolhardy person who put themselves in that firing line.
    First, Tim, thanks for your impressions and the RAW files! All very interesting and helpful. Second, as someone who from time to time tries to do these kinds of tests and reviews, I've learned to pretty much ignore the disputees. It's impossible to do a perfect test, and doubly impossible to do a test the way everyone wants it done. So I do tests and reviews that I find interesting, put them out there, and let the criticism roll off my back.
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    I personally don't see an issue with reviewers, good or bad, it's the people reading them that are the problem! Haha.

    Honestly though, everyone has opinions, some people will believe one person, some another but it's only foolish people who make decisions based on what they read and not how a piece of equipment works in their own hands shooting their own favourite subjects, and that's down to them, doesn't bother me!

    Looking at jpegs on a forum says nothing, never has done really, pointing the camera at a boring view of your garden, street or wherever with one camera and then another and putting the shots online, what on earth does that mean? Nothing, apart from how slightly sharper or more contrasty the boring scene is from a newer camera or lens. But then I think a fair percentage of people are sensible enough to buy a piece of kit they are interested in, shoot it, look at the results and see if for them the upgrade is worth while, if not just pass it on. Reviews are entertaining at best and ridiculous at worst, having to pay someone for their opinion is firmly in the ridiculous camp for me. Those that put their opinions online I can choose to read or not, I know from my own testing that it can take time but I see little point in showing it to anyone else, it's just pointless because it only relates to my needs and desires.

    What I'm waiting to see from the A7rII are shots that couldn't have been produced from another camera, the only way I can do that is to buy one and see what I can get it to do, no offence to the millions of pictures that will soon be uploaded of a cat or a living room or a garden but a jump in dynamic range or sharpness on a boring shot is still going to produce a boring shot, lets see something breathtaking, original, unachievable with other equipment.

    Just my opinion of course, enjoy!

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Tim, Thanks!

    (FWIW, so much preamble was not necessary given the fact that you are not new here and my query was not a bait-it was sincere. As for the review industry, web outfits, blogs, etc, if it is worthwhile for them well and good. )

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Tim, not sure what you mean by the base ISO of the A7rII is 800. The specs say 100?
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Tim..... thanks so much for the raw files. Sony vs Art (assuming both are good samples) is hard to find. Much appreciated.....

    Victor
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    @ Vivek, the reason I say that is that the SLog2 video picture profile has a minimum ISO of 800 and that is generally set at the base ISO of the sensor. I have read this in several places too. The official 'non-pull' ISO range starts at ISO 100 but my understanding is that the ('Native' might be a better word than 'Base') ISO is 800...
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Thanks for posting all these files! I will work on them today.

    I have a question. Is it fact that the base iso of the A7RII for still images is 800? instead of 64 or 100?

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    @ Vivek, the reason I say that is that the SLog2 video picture profile has a minimum ISO of 800 and that is generally set at the base ISO of the sensor. I have read this in several places too. The official 'non-pull' ISO range starts at ISO 100 but my understanding is that the ('Native' might be a better word than 'Base') ISO is 800...
    Tim, Sony has been implementing a conversion switch tactic to squeeze the best DR out at low ISO and high ISO and it has to do with video too I guess. The switch is not exactly at ISO 800. Here is a couple of articles Jim Kasson just made:

    Sony a7RII engineering dynamic range | The Last Word
    a7RII read noise with EFCS on and off, plus silent, continuous | The Last Word

    Edit: In a way, we have at least 2 base ISOs (or 3)
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Hiep, I agree with that. The video requirements complicate the factors.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    @Leigh, as Anna says, I am referring to a lens which has some de-centered element or group which manifests as files with one side of the sensor being in less sharp focus than the other on a planar target. It's a lot more complex than that in real life though...
    OK. I just didn't understand the terminology.

    I'm certainly familiar with the de-centering issue.
    There's an active thread on that topic.

    Thanks.

    - Leigh

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by hiepphotog View Post
    Tim, Sony has been implementing a conversion switch tactic to squeeze the best DR out at low ISO and high ISO and it has to do with video too I guess. The switch is not exactly at ISO 800. Here is a couple of articles Jim Kasson just made:

    Sony a7RII engineering dynamic range | The Last Word
    a7RII read noise with EFCS on and off, plus silent, continuous | The Last Word

    Edit: In a way, we have at least 2 base ISOs (or 3)
    Fascinating! Thank you! So as I read that, base ISO is either 50 or 100 (both have the same DR) and then just under 800, presumably in order to make the video work as it needs to. Maybe I need to update my assumptions!

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    ...the A7RII has a base ISO of 800 and the D810 has a base ISO of 64.
    That's backwards.

    The lowest ISO is determined by the number of samples that are averaged together.
    It can be whatever number the designers want it to be.

    The sensor "base" sensitivity is given by its highest ISO rating.
    That defines what information can be captured in a single sample.

    - Leigh

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Posts 19 and 22 clarified that issue.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Without ado and after about 100 frames, therefore highly provisional...
    Tim,

    Your raw files are very informative especially image #84 shot with the Sony 55 at f5.6. That image shows the weakness/strength of that lens and camera combination. I would probably look elsewhere but that's just me.

    Victor

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Posts 19 and 22 clarified that issue.
    Those posts did not even address the issue, much less clarify it.

    My earlier comments about high ISO and sensor function are correct as presented.

    - Leigh

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Tim,

    Your raw files are very informative especially image #84 shot with the Sony 55 at f5.6. That image shows the weakness/strength of that lens and camera combination. I would probably look elsewhere but that's just me.

    Victor
    Hi Victor,

    Just out of curiosity, what are you seeing there that makes you keen to look elsewhere? Per lens alone, I prefer the Sony to for example the Sigma Art, because it is sharp all over the frame right from wide open.
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Tim..... I'm being very picky but I have the right to be if I'm using my money...... as an example I don't even own an Otus any more - and I had three copies. I see some smearing on the right hand side at maybe the 2/3 point..... but throughout the right side as compared to the left. At f5.6 I expect the lens to be close to perfect when photographing planar subjects. I don't believe the issue has anything to do with curvature. Again..... this is just me. Oddly I've been very critical of my Leica Summicron 50mm which has horrendous focus shift issues and is not as sharp as the Sony 55mm but it is very, very even from left to right.... not even a hint of decentering. I find that a real accomplishment since I can get around the focus shifting and can easily post process for sharpness issues. However, that's not where I would look for an alternative....

    Again..... thanks so much for taking the time to post.

    Victor

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Tim..... I'm being very picky but I have the right to be if I'm using my money...... as an example I don't even own an Otus any more - and I had three copies. I see some smearing on the right hand side at maybe the 2/3 point..... but throughout the right side as compared to the left. At f5.6 I expect the lens to be close to perfect when photographing planar subjects. I don't believe the issue has anything to do with curvature. Again..... this is just me. Oddly I've been very critical of my Leica Summicron 50mm which has horrendous focus shift issues and is not as sharp as the Sony 55mm but it is very, very even from left to right.... not even a hint of decentering. I find that a real accomplishment since I can get around the focus shifting and can easily post process for sharpness issues. However, that's not where I would look for an alternative....

    Again..... thanks so much for taking the time to post.

    Victor
    Crikey, you are eagle eyed - I though I was very particular about the symmetry of my lenses but I considered this a good copy! I suggest that unless you have smelling salts to hand you don't look at this, which is from my FE 16-35 F4. I returned it for service under warranty today...

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    OMG......... I would never own/rent/lease/ that lens!!

    Victor

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I suggest that unless you have smelling salts to hand you don't look at this, which is from my FE 16-35 F4. I returned it for service under warranty today...
    Holy crap! I sold my copy, but yours is far worse.

    Any ideas for a super-wide (<25mm)? Other than using my D810 with the 14-24mm?

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Holy crap! I sold my copy, but yours is far worse.

    Any ideas for a super-wide (<25mm)? Other than using my D810 with the 14-24mm?

    Joe
    I'm sticking with the 16-35 Joe - getting it fixed. It is so much better than I expected at 16/24/28 and I hear such raves about it from people who have a good one that I am going to try to make the best of it. Actually apart from at that 35mm setting, it really is good, even on the 7rII

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    I don't think the A7RII is an ISO 800 camera. Its good at ISO 800, and indeed higher, but better - far better, at lower ISO.

    In fact I have never entirely bought in to the obsession regarding high ISO performance of any camera. Useful, but not critical for my purposes.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    I don't think the A7RII is an ISO 800 camera. Its good at ISO 800, and indeed higher, but better - far better, at lower ISO.

    In fact I have never entirely bought in to the obsession regarding high ISO performance of any camera. Useful, but not critical for my purposes.
    I'm with you on that Quentin - I very very rarely shoot much above the 80-200 ISO range but it's nice to be able to. I think what the above thread seems to have provisionally concluded is that there's no such thing as a base ISO for the sensor though - it seems to have two or three, depending on how the signal is processed thereafter. I think....
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I'm with you on that Quentin - I very very rarely shoot much above the 80-200 ISO range but it's nice to be able to. I think what the above thread seems to have provisionally concluded is that there's no such thing as a base ISO for the sensor though - it seems to have two or three, depending on how the signal is processed thereafter. I think....
    BTW, Tim, sorry about your 16-35mm. Terrible! Mine is not perfect, but a *lot* better than that - pretty good in fact. - how does such a faulty lens pass Zeiss quality control?
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    BTW, Tim, sorry about your 16-35mm. Terrible! Mine is not perfect, but a *lot* better than that - pretty good in fact. - how does such a faulty lens pass Zeiss quality control?
    One of the great mysteries of the universe.....

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    BTW, Tim, sorry about your 16-35mm. Terrible! Mine is not perfect, but a *lot* better than that - pretty good in fact. - how does such a faulty lens pass Zeiss quality control?
    A very good question, Quentin. My thinking is that Sony sets the bar and Zeiss complies. I would sure like to have a 'real buddy' at Zeiss who would look out for 'really' good copies - just for me! That's a real dream..... but I can dream can't I?

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    Holy crap! I sold my copy, but yours is far worse.

    Any ideas for a super-wide (<25mm)? Other than using my D810 with the 14-24mm?

    Joe
    Maybe if you have a super wide M lens laying around, it might be worth a serious try.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    I think that for the prices these kind of lenses command these days, manufacturers should exercise much tighter controls enough to satisfy the pickiest. Lens return for lack of IQ became everyday practice. A royal pita!

    Or is it that we are asking too much these miniature sensors?
    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    A very good question, Quentin. My thinking is that Sony sets the bar and Zeiss complies. I would sure like to have a 'real buddy' at Zeiss who would look out for 'really' good copies - just for me! That's a real dream..... but I can dream can't I?

    Victor

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    I think that for the prices these kind of lenses command these days, manufacturers should exercise much tighter controls enough to satisfy the pickiest. Lens return for lack of IQ became everyday practice. A royal pita!

    Or is it that we are asking too much these miniature sensors?
    Eduardo
    Its really a FF 35mm sensor - fairly decent size!! AND...... no we are not asking too much for these prices..... a real shame at this stage of the game.

    Victor

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    I am 62. I think I'm entitled to call them miniature.
    Best regards Victor
    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Its really a FF 35mm sensor - fairly decent size!! AND...... no we are not asking too much for these prices..... a real shame at this stage of the game.

    Victor

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    New stuff on ISO and DR: check out the links from this piece at SAR... it relates to a Chinese rental agency's lab tests and seems to show that the A7RII has better DR at higher ISO than the D810 but that the D810 has the best DR of both systems provided it is shot at low ISO. This might indeed imply that the 'native' ISO of the Sony is higher...???


    'with the author conceding a “surprising” advantage for a sony camera over the d810 in terms of higher iso dynamic range performance. But also noting that in the low iso performance area so key to landscape photographers, d810 is still king.
    Of course the main issue is the long exposure color noise in the shadows which starts to appear at shutter speeds greater than 1 second, really become a problem beyond 10 seconds, and is like an unwelcome dose of LSD beyond 30 seconds. The author demonstrates this by comparing pictures which have been adjusted +ev 5 for exposure and +100 for shadows in the shadow areas with d810, 5dsr, (and later on d800e, a7m2, and canon 6d). This actually could be a significant issue for landscape lovers '

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Maybe if you have a super wide M lens laying around, it might be worth a serious try.
    I've used the Leica M 16-18-21mm Tri-Elmar with the a7R with excellent results. I'm assuming it will work well with the a7R II, but I no longer have the lens. I'm thinking that the Voigtlander 15mm III might be a cheaper candidate. That and the Batis 25mm would provide good spacing.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    I am 62. I think I'm entitled to call them miniature.
    Best regards Victor
    Eduardo
    Actually they ARE really small compared to FF medium format..... and... yes you are entitled to call them miniature.

    Victor

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    New stuff on ISO and DR: check out the links from this piece at SAR... it relates to a Chinese rental agency's lab tests and seems to show that the A7RII has better DR at higher ISO than the D810 but that the D810 has the best DR of both systems provided it is shot at low ISO. This might indeed imply that the 'native' ISO of the Sony is higher...???


    'with the author conceding a “surprising” advantage for a sony camera over the d810 in terms of higher iso dynamic range performance. But also noting that in the low iso performance area so key to landscape photographers, d810 is still king.
    Of course the main issue is the long exposure color noise in the shadows which starts to appear at shutter speeds greater than 1 second, really become a problem beyond 10 seconds, and is like an unwelcome dose of LSD beyond 30 seconds. The author demonstrates this by comparing pictures which have been adjusted +ev 5 for exposure and +100 for shadows in the shadow areas with d810, 5dsr, (and later on d800e, a7m2, and canon 6d). This actually could be a significant issue for landscape lovers '
    Thanks Tim. You have the cameras and could try to confirm or disprove that finding. TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    K-H
    When you get your A7RII, I would very much like to read about your experiences using the Leica 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar with it. TIA.

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    K-H
    When you get your A7RII, I would very much like to read about your experiences using the Leica 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar with it. TIA.
    I have tried out my WATE and it would appear that any corner/edge colour cast has all but gone. I never had the the A7r only the A7II and A7s so I can only say that corner smearing at f8 would probably be acceptable as long as you don't really pixel-peak. I would say it is better than Tim's unfortunate FE16-35 that he sent in for service. Compared to my FE16-35 I think that the Sony is definitely sharper in the corners but I really haven't had the camera long enough to give any definitive answer. I think the unfortunate reality is that if you want the best from a Leica wide then you still need the Leica M

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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by Viramati View Post
    I have tried out my WATE and it would appear that any corner/edge colour cast has all but gone. I never had the the A7r only the A7II and A7s so I can only say that corner smearing at f8 would probably be acceptable as long as you don't really pixel-peak. I would say it is better than Tim's unfortunate FE16-35 that he sent in for service. Compared to my FE16-35 I think that the Sony is definitely sharper in the corners but I really haven't had the camera long enough to give any definitive answer. I think the unfortunate reality is that if you want the best from a Leica wide then you still need the Leica M
    The WATE has always worked well on all FE bodies.
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Tim. You have the cameras and could try to confirm or disprove that finding. TIA.
    I think I already have some evidence of that in saying that the II is a bit noisier than I expected and that it breaks apart under clarity boost faster than I expected. The differences are subtle, more evident on a protectively exposed file, but IMHO they are there. HOWEVER... I'm not a metrics tester, don't have a lab, can't prove a thing and am not even sure that I've shot enough frames to hold to the opinion. But when I read the piece I linked to, it sounded right.
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    Re: A7RII first impressions and LOTS of RAW files

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I think I already have some evidence of that in saying that the II is a bit noisier than I expected and that it breaks apart under clarity boost faster than I expected. The differences are subtle, more evident on a protectively exposed file, but IMHO they are there. HOWEVER... I'm not a metrics tester, don't have a lab, can't prove a thing and am not even sure that I've shot enough frames to hold to the opinion. But when I read the piece I linked to, it sounded right.
    Instead of trusting a black-box approach with graph from the Chinese site, I would rather trust what Jim Kasson said. He did publish the method and even the definition of Dynamic Range that he is using in his test. From the look of it, the A7RII has similar signal conversion as the D810 at low ISO. Since first base ISO of the A7RII is 100 (any lower is extrapolated or fake) and the D810's base ISO is 64, we see a little advantage on the D810 side. As they approach ISO 640, the A7RII switches over to a different type of signal conversion, effectively has more DR than the D810. I imagine this signal conversion would be similar to those of the D3/D4 family, good for high ISO but okay for low ISO. I have been using Jim's switch over point of the A7S with great success for astrophotography stuff.

    Nikon D810 vs Sony a7RII dark-field noise | The Last Word
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