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Thread: Here we go again...

  1. #1
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    Here we go again...

    Anyone else noticing the number of complaints about the a7rII on other forums are mostly operator user oops and migrating users complaining of things it doesn't have like their other manufacturer cameras had? I remember really seeing this when the original NEX5 was introduced. I think this body because of all the discussion on how well it functions with Canon and Nikon glass may even experience even more of this sort of mud slinging than the NEX5 did.

    Just amazes me .. Everyone could read its features prior to purchase and would know what it had or didn't but here comes in the con column issues that should of been known coming in or issues if they would of used the manual they would of avoided.

    One site in particular has some real mega minds that get far too deep into the tech end that I don't think they could ever be happy with any camera made by anyone anywhere. I read their babble and just walk away shaking my head in amazement.

    For me if a camera has great IQ and fits my needs and wants its a great camera. All cameras are compromises and we work to their strengths and away from their weaknesses or find work arounds. I have been like that since my first Honeywell Spotmatic to today. But the world is a complex place and full of a variety of people with a even more complex mental array of thinking patterns and the way they achieve their expectations. I do wish though that some would become more involved with the spec sheet gong in and the manual once they commit and get their new gear. Imo the complaints like those noted here just cloud the waters and raise too many false flags. Now if someone finds a legacy lens that works or doesn't that was not know going in or a feature that was or wasn't mentions in the specs those type complaints or accolades give value.

    Mine is 30 miles away and on the move and from what I see is going to be my definition of a great camera This comment is brought to you by a guy waiting on a delivery truck and observations he see's around the web so it may well just be anxious babble
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Jim let me step up to the podium here and give the sermon of the day. Hold on tight. Lol

    First ignore the chowder heads. Yea there brains are of that consistency. I have said this several times and people grasping the concept just refuse to pay attention. Sony builds for Sony , sells Sony cameras , Sony lenses and Sony accessories. Key word here is Sony . There not building for Leica M lenses, canon or any other brand. Here is the key if your freaking 3rd party lens is working on any Sony body than my friend you just got a bonus but never a right of passage. Your cheating and that's great but do not expect any support along the way. It's a freaking gift get it through your bloody head . I keep hearing Sony markets this, well of course they do but if you don't get a 3 party adapter you can't play either and Sony will most likely be offering folks like Metabones there support but the will never ever offer a Canon lens support directly.

    Now second part of this is the fact you spend X dollars and maybe well above your pay grade and you want everything including the kitchen sink and a toilet bowl to go with it. That's not going to happen. You clearly know the costs , the specs and what you are getting for your money. But it's never enough your a bloody pig and want to draw blood from a turnip. Sony will never win the day here, people expect discounts, freebies and worse the right to bitch daily about nothing.

    That was Part A . Depending on mood I may add a part b.

    Generally speaking not at Jim directly here
    Last edited by Guy Mancuso; 6th August 2015 at 05:56.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Jim let me add as your waiting for that truck. You bought what you thought was going to be a answer to your own needs. Trust me you bought well. Why you ask I can say that because it's what we wanted in the first place and better. Go seize the day my friend with your new cam, your going to love it. Hell if I had the cash I buy a second one

    Oh that was Espresso number 1 I get to three I might have to be censored. I know it's annoying as hell reading this stuff but than you come back here and the tranqlizer kicks back in and your at peace with nice reasonable folks here. I'm with you on that one
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Jim, I have no idea what you are referring to. But that NEX-5 was a POC in the whole of Sony NEX line up. Shot gun shutter and that sensor that got dumped by Sony themselves very quickly.

    They have come a long way with the A7r II with a brand new sensor that isn't taken from a Nikon camera of yester years.

    Since it (E mount cameras) is actually being treated seriously by Sony nowadays, it is bound to attract attacks from other brand afficianados. Given that the system still relies on EOS, etc mount lenses that are affordable and plenty, I would expect more of this.

    Let us hope that there will be an affordable bunch of compact f/2 primes like the Sony FE 28/2 soon.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Have just got mine and in the immortal words of Steve Huff "WOW, AMAZING, WOW, THE BEST EVER, WOW' Will try to be more scientific later.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Jim, I have no idea what you are referring to. But that NEX-5 was a POC in the whole of Sony NEX line up. Shot gun shutter and that sensor that got dumped by Sony themselves very quickly.

    They have come a long way with the A7r II with a brand new sensor that isn't taken from a Nikon camera of yester years.

    Since it (E mount cameras) is actually being treated seriously by Sony nowadays, it is bound to attract attacks from other brand afficianados. Given that the system still relies on EOS, etc mount lenses that are affordable and plenty, I would expect more of this.

    Let us hope that there will be an affordable bunch of compact f/2 primes like the Sony FE 28/2 soon.

    Hey, hey, hey.... easy on the old tool ...... remember it started this path! Sure it wasn't perfect but man it got us all out of the box mentality and saw a potential product in the future as it opened up the word of digital imaging for nearly every lens made. I still have and use the ole NEX5 (albeit as a underwater camera but it is still used) and even a old a33 with the same sensor remains my portable flash use camera of choice with a strobinar grip with a Minolta 28-75mm f2.8 lens and a Minolta flash high mounted. Not that I am much into photo competitions nor do I believe a good image is rarely the results of equipment but a sunrise scenic with my old NEX5 and a CG 45mm has done very well in a worldwide competition held by our photo society. POC might be a bit harsh imo it was a gateway camera which has opened the door to our current mirrorless Sony technologies. Hey a pinhole camera to some was a poc but it too was a ground breaking gateway technology that has led to where we are today.... as well as created some historically admired images.

    All that said..... I do understand your position and to me sensor wise the NEX7 stepped backwards a half a step which improved with the 5n.

    Guy, I am confident I will be happy with this new body ... otherwise I never would of pre-ordered it and researched it and the trends Sony has established with it's past a7x launches. I don't expect a miracle box that I can just take out of a case and it will expel Ansel Adams level images one right after another without any human contact All I was noting was that this body like the NEX5 will be drawing a bunch of crossover photographers from the other brands and we are starting to see the same type misinformation type complaints and moaning on the other forums on the web. Some of the comments I see just have me rubbing my head in a daze.

    Oh my a7rII is out for delivery .......sadly with this shipper that means at my location from 9am-8pm it could arrive

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Not quite how I go again. I have a 35mm Loxia which I assume is completely compatible with earlier 7 series cameras. When Sony built the 7rII they rendered the enlarged view (when focusing) unusable. Any of you who feel this is important should think twice before planning on using your Loxia. Just a heads up...

    Unless I'm missing something with this new camera....
    Stephen

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen.s1 View Post
    Not quite how I go again. I have a 35mm Loxia which I assume is completely compatible with earlier 7 series cameras. When Sony built the 7rII they rendered the enlarged view (when focusing) unusable. Any of you who feel this is important should think twice before planning on using your Loxia. Just a heads up...

    Unless I'm missing something with this new camera....
    I think you are missing something... I think you're missing that you can turn off the setting that automatically zooms in for focus when you turn the ring.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I think that if people had started when they had to use one or 2 lenses, view through a tine viewfinder like on a Leica IIIC or use an on old range finder that was all mechanical, they would realize how lucky they are. I would love all my lenses to work on the A7RII but they won't, big deal. There are so many options now. And the A7RII is one of the first digital cameras that from what I have seen, doesn't give that digital cut out look to images. But some prefer to gripe than use that energy to get out and shoot. I go out most every day for a 2 to 4 mile hike, and this is often cross country in the desert so it isn't some easy stuff but it is finding nature and also what can be beautiful to make an image of. I look forward to what the A7RII "does" do.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I think you are missing something... I think you're missing that you can turn off the setting that automatically zooms in for focus when you turn the ring.
    I do understand that. But, when it's able to work, it makes things so much easier.

    I never said it made the lens unusable. I use my 90mm in AF and MF, and when in MF that enlarged view is soooo nice. Ah well, upward and onward.

    BTW jamato8, I've got 82 birthdays under my feet, and have been shooting for 72 of them. So, I do understand how limited we used to be. Those days are long gone!!

    Thanks to you both for your input.
    Stephen

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen.s1 View Post
    I do understand that. But, when it's able to work, it makes things so much easier.

    I never said it made the lens unusable. I use my 90mm in AF and MF, and when in MF that enlarged view is soooo nice. Ah well, upward and onward.

    BTW jamato8, I've got 82 birthdays under my feet, and have been shooting for 72 of them. So, I do understand how limited we used to be. Those days are long gone!!

    Thanks to you both for your input.
    I think I may have spoke too soon on the camera. I have the adapters for the EOS and the Leica and Leica works fine, not much there but the Metabones IV with the latest .41 SW isn't doing so hot. I have a couple of the EOS lenses, the 35L and the 24-70 II doing ok but many very new lenses like the 11-24L and the 100-400L II aren't doing that well. They work fantastic on the 5DIII and Sony has said there are many lenses that will work with the A7RII but these aren't doing that great, poor actually. The 135L, no go, 100L macro, poor, and so on.

    Also if you switch your viewfinder to normal, acquire is faster. Slower with high quality view.

  12. #12
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    Re: Here we go again...

    LOL @Viramati

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Guy, I like this bad boy big time!!!! From a informal shot at a light color wall even my CG28 appears to be ok though those little tabs kinda worry me as they extend about a 1/16th of a inch more inboard of my Kipon adapter. Still a early test but I really don't have much of a need for it with as good as this 16-35 seems. I will throw it in the bag and test it later as time permits. The extension with the sense seemingly right there is a bit of a concern though I really do not know just how much clearance there is.

    My issue is getting used to either my C1 or the LR6 as I have been a die in the wool Aperture user till now but I knew this day would come. I did cheat a bit and loved the images in both LR6 and C1 and let it do it's auto stuff and exported them as TIF's to my aperture software to play with

    As far as the camera? Man it is nice!!! Bit different than my other A and apc E mounts but not difficult to adapt to.

    It's a keeper......... as I expected! Now if I get blessed with some good weather I will be a happy camper.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen.s1 View Post
    Not quite how I go again. I have a 35mm Loxia which I assume is completely compatible with earlier 7 series cameras. When Sony built the 7rII they rendered the enlarged view (when focusing) unusable. Any of you who feel this is important should think twice before planning on using your Loxia. Just a heads up...

    Unless I'm missing something with this new camera....
    Why is it unusable ? Lack of details/precision ? Too much noise ?

    From what I have read, Sony has changed the default IQ of the EVF : on the A7r it is set to high IQ by default : this means that the refresh rate is slower and you get a small delay, a small time lapse between what the EVF shows and what succeed in the scene, but the EVF shows more details. You use high IQ for MF for still lifes, macro and when you don't care for the decisive moment. You use the standard IQ when you are shooting action or for the decisive moment and thus need a faster refresh rate. But this comes at the expense of resolution and makes MF more difficult.

    It seems that on the A7r2 Sony made the standard IQ and faster refresh rate the default. So may be just check that you have set that EVF option to high IQ on the A7r2 too, because it isn't the default on that camera.

    Another issue may be in low light where the ISO are cranked up and you get too much noise (snow) in the EVF. This is more difficult to get rid off. But there is an option that can help : if you have the EVF "show effects" set to "on" and your aperture is small, then it will be more noisy. In this case, setting show effects to off may help a little, because the lens will remain wide open until you snap the release button.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Why is it unusable ? Lack of details/precision ? Too much noise ?

    F
    I'm embarassed. I never had the lens locked in place fully. That gasket makes it really tight. It works now just fine.
    Stephen
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Don't be . My Batis lenses are very tight as well. I like it though
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Nice to see the majority of "witch hunter's" have moved along getting ready for their next new camera to be released to validate their existence. Seems to be a rush for them to be the first to find any kind of issue (real or not) with any new body released. I guess I will never understand their mindset on this. A camera is a tool and none of them do everything better than any other tool ever made.

    I like my a7rII. It feels good and solid in my hand and does everything I have required it to do......... This is my first a7x body so I cannot comment on how is is better or worse with anything specific to the other bodies in this series. My only non Minolta/Sony body in the past 10 years has been a Sigma DP2m so I cannot compare the a7rII to any other manufacturers tools or their file types. All I can say is I get paid well near daily for my images and my tools are Sony and have never once had a complaint. That is good enough for me ........ I now will build my FE lens arsenal and shoot the heck out of this body and pay no attention to the witch hunters on the web.

    As of right now I am using my C1 software as my RAW converting software and migrating the Tif files to Aperture as a temporary solution to this RAW file on the a7rII. Not a permanent solution but one I can live with till I get as comfortable with C1 as I am with Aperture. I ruled out LR as Adobe IMO: with the monthly leases, world worse customer service, horrible (for me) UI, etc... is a company I want to no longer continue with as I may have to use CS/PS software over the years 2-3 times per year. My hope is C1 offers a better filing system similar to Apertures and that I get much more comfortable with the C1 UI. Thanks to all for their suggestions on a suitable replacement software for my Aperture...... it was much appreciated but in the end my long term issues with Adobe and their products was something I just could not get myself to forget about. Jack and Guy.... now you need to get C1 to build a great filing system.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post

    I ruled out LR as Adobe IMO: with the monthly leases, world worse customer service, horrible (for me) UI, etc... is a company I want to no longer continue with as I may have to use CS/PS software over the years 2-3 times per year. My hope is C1 offers a better filing system similar to Apertures and that I get much more comfortable with the C1 UI. Thanks to all for their suggestions on a suitable replacement software for my Aperture...... it was much appreciated but in the end my long term issues with Adobe and their products was something I just could not get myself to forget about. Jack and Guy.... now you need to get C1 to build a great filing system.
    I proabably will migrate like you to C1 also since it appears anyone who "buys" LR and PS will no longer get ACR and gear updates. That was a shocker to me. So spend $150 on LR and $500 on PS and get screwed because you don't subscribe to the $10/month CC. We all know once they get x% who have switched then the monthly sum will begin to rise and never stop.

    I just hope C1 does not go the same route.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    Anyone else noticing the number of complaints about the a7rII on other forums are mostly operator user oops and migrating users complaining of things it doesn't have like their other manufacturer cameras had? I remember really seeing this when the original NEX5 was introduced...
    NEX/E-mount line has been targeting "losers" since its introduction.
    The a7 line is facing the same dilemma of ignorance Sony was trying to solve with E-mount in this marketing campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taLEf2F3SbE
    So, Sony deserves the rant it gets online from its customers, especially when it doesn't bother to include a user manual booklet in the box.
    Check out this thread to realize how deep the PDAF back hole mystery is:
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/556...n-minolta.html
    With most of the Sony stores closed in the US and Canada, as well as a global on-line store closing soon, and a wacko "Pro Support" requirements, one must be clueless to rely on Sony for a prompt professional support with gear repair/exchange/loans/tutorials.
    I went to a local BestBuy store to check out a7RII since they had a separate dedicated to Sony cameras stand last time I visited. Turned out there are only a7 mk1 available on display, not even an a7mkII and no Zeiss lenses to try.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    I think we will agree to disagree on just about every point you made... We are on complete opposite ends of this subject.

    The only item we might have a similar feeling about is the warranty service in the USA. I am a Pro Service Support member due to their outsourcing their repairs to a know east coast shop with many documented customer satisfaction issues. I had no problems becoming a SPSS member and it took about 10 days to get my card. I have backups for my backups so loaners are not something I need or even want.

    I don't like that they closed their stores and are closing their online store but I do not know if these were profitable or not. I'll say this I have never seen a Canikon company brick and mortar store either so there must be a reason. I don't think I would ever go to Best Buy for anything none the less a higher newly released camera or lens.

    The rest of your points I will just leave alone as they are opinions and everyone is entitled to their own. I know I have made a bunch of money using, as you call it, "Loser" targeted hardware.

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    I don't think I would ever go to Best Buy for anything none the less a higher newly released camera or lens.
    Had I a better choice in my area, I'd go there. These are the only ones left: http://store.sony.com/-cms-page.sony.store.listing
    BTW, Best Buy carried the first Sony DSLR before Sony opened their store in Aventura, FL (the last one to close in SoFla).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    ...as you call it, "Loser" targeted hardware.
    I didn't direct that Ad I linked to to claim a credit for a "Loser" title.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    You need to relocate closer to NYC or take a couple hour flight there then if you want that hands on experience with newly released Sony products.. NYC is loaded with those type opportunities including the only remaining Sony Store.... I would not buy a SD card from Best Buy .. But that is another story about another product. I don't go to WalMart either... To me they are two same like each.
    Last edited by Jim DE; 15th August 2015 at 20:00.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Hands on experience with the latest Sony products is not worth the price of permanent relocation to NYC even if Sony sponsored it.


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    Re: Here we go again...

    You can do that right now off the Hamptons ... Wouldn't want to in Jan-Feb though.... They even have a best buy over in Riverhead, NY

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen.s1 View Post
    I do understand that. But, when it's able to work, it makes things so much easier.

    I never said it made the lens unusable. I use my 90mm in AF and MF, and when in MF that enlarged view is soooo nice. Ah well, upward and onward.

    BTW jamato8, I've got 82 birthdays under my feet, and have been shooting for 72 of them. So, I do understand how limited we used to be. Those days are long gone!!

    Thanks to you both for your input.
    I just wanted to make sure that you knew that if you turn off the automatic zoom, you can still zoom in by assigning magnify to the C1 button. I added a chrome button to my C1 so that I could feel it easier. It is just a matter of press-press...and I don't have that zoom when I don't want it.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    For those loving the A7r2, more power to you Why even read technical threads if you already know you love the thing without reservation?

    But referring to those who look very close at multiple aspects and discuss as chowderheads? Yikes. I often pass on threads which don't interest me, but I refrain from judging those who are having the conversation.

    Is this camera perfect? Is it really worth over 3 thousand dollars? We have just come from the first generation of A7x, which at first seemed a dream for lens lovers, but in reality only now do we even have good primes below 35mm, because the sensors are so quirky. There are plenty of Sony issues worth discussing. I say TYG for the chowder heads, because without them we would not likely have the kolari mod, which has brought my own A7 off the shelf.

    I like to see everyone psyched and loving their new cameras, but I think some are awfully sensitive, even intolerant of the contrary opinions of others. Being faced with an opposite opinion or impression, in the real world, can often lead to more knowledge. No one ever learned anything being "right".

    Why not just enjoy your camera, and let those who are trying to figure it out have their discussions. We all have different priorities anyway. I know the glass I like, and I am not amused by bodies which don't agree LOL. Others will just find the glass because they love the body. I may disagree, but I don't feel the need to insult them, just the opposite, I wish them well.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I have no issues with dissenting opinions, and even welcome alternate viewpoints. We see a lot of that here, and it's a very good thing.

    However, we also see a lot of nonsense - fabrications, innuendo, false rumors, mountains made out of molehills, etc. We'll get one post from one forum being used as an absolute "source" for (mis)information. We'll see the SAME rumors about obscure labs China reaching negative conclusions, and this gets passed along until it's made out to be an accepted fact.

    I don't know what needs are filled when somebody does this. I guess some folks are bored, or perhaps feel threatened when a new technology comes along. Some just want attention. The good thing - they are easy to spot. The threads are titled provocatively to assure a lively response (click bait). The posts are outlandish and often overtly insulting. Sadly, instead of being properly ignored, the bait is taken and flame wars ensue.

    It's not peculiar to photography - just about every forum on every topic gets its share of trolls. The best and only advice - DON'T take the bait. Ignore them - they eventually go away.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Ignore the noise, rent the camera, examine RAW files in your software of choice, work the files according to your particular workflow, and buy the camera that gives you the image quality you're looking for.

    Don't let Lloyd Chambers give you nightmares with his ongoing complaints. LOL (Just kidding, I kind of enjoy his website for certain information, but man is he picky!)
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    But referring to those who look very close at multiple aspects and discuss as chowderheads? Yikes.
    That is Guy over the moon with his A7rII. I am one of those chowderheads.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I have a long term love and hate relationship with Sony. I've had the NEX5, NEX5N, NEX6, NEX7, TWO A7, A5100, A6000 and the A7S...all of them always came very close but always left some key feature keeping it from REALLY making it. And to be honest I really think that is Sony's game. Why put it all on the table when you can slowly phase evolution and milk your customers until you've "finally got it"? I mean they could have implemented the A6000's AF on their FF cameras but that wouldn't have been profitable. They KNOW they could have implemented their A7S high iso capabilities and their video features on their A7 series but why if you could charge double. Sony has a strategy of always making the user choose and between features and it REALLY makes me angry because one way or the other you will have to leave out some important features....
    Now, after keeping the customers waiting for years they FINALLY come up with a camera that FINALLY may gather all the features and bring peace and love to the consumer's hearts
    BUT this camera just happens to cost us$3200...which is ok, because with all the incredible hype that Sony has been creating this MUST be the holy grail of cameras...after all it's us$1000 more expensive than it's main Canon and Nikon competitors....after all, look at all the blogs, footage, reviews, etc. Come on, guys...you're really telling me that i's NOT natural to be frustrated to pay us$3200 to find out the camera does not live up to the hype?? I think it's absolutely natural. In the US it's pretty easy to rent the newest gear and find out which is the right one for you, but rental is NOT a world wide culture and for many people in different countries either you buy the camera based on reviews, forums, blogs, tests, etc or you simply don't buy it. And let me tell you it's pretty darn frustrating to pay that kind of money to find out that a camera simply won't deliver what their competitors have been delivering for YEARS. Not that it matters for most, but since I've moved to Brazil this situation is even more aggravated as there are ridiculous import taxes here....The A7RII will probably cost a minimum of US$4500 here! Seriously, even when compared to the top DSLR today us$3200 is a heck of LOT of money! For that kind of money, you SHOULD expect the best and Sony SHOULD deliver it...anything else it's just plain disrespect for their clients by Sony.

    P.S - I'm a HUGE Sony mirrorless fan and I really REALLY WANT Sony to succeed...but just show a little respect for your customers.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by rjp85 View Post
    Ignore the noise, rent the camera, examine RAW files in your software of choice, work the files according to your particular workflow, and buy the camera that gives you the image quality you're looking for.

    Don't let Lloyd Chambers give you nightmares with his ongoing complaints. LOL (Just kidding, I kind of enjoy his website for certain information, but man is he picky!)
    Sigh... Lloyd Chambers sells a high price subscription and if he didn't have something to criticize, "discriminating readers" would have nothing to read and no reason to send him bitcoins or whatever he prefers nowadays for payment.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Rafa, Perfection can NEVER be achieved. You have to appreciate Sony for upgrading from a plastic mount to a metal mount and finally supplying a camera with a decent shutter.

    I salute all the supporters of A7rII. I may buy one.

    After my A7r and its spectacular price crash, I made a resolution that I will never ever buy a Sony camera at its debut and NEVER at its european Sony mafia price.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    I have no issues with dissenting opinions, and even welcome alternate viewpoints. We see a lot of that here, and it's a very good thing.

    However, we also see a lot of nonsense - fabrications, innuendo, false rumors, mountains made out of molehills, etc. We'll get one post from one forum being used as an absolute "source" for (mis)information. We'll see the SAME rumors about obscure labs China reaching negative conclusions, and this gets passed along until it's made out to be an accepted fact.

    I don't know what needs are filled when somebody does this. I guess some folks are bored, or perhaps feel threatened when a new technology comes along. Some just want attention. The good thing - they are easy to spot. The threads are titled provocatively to assure a lively response (click bait). The posts are outlandish and often overtly insulting. Sadly, instead of being properly ignored, the bait is taken and flame wars ensue.

    It's not peculiar to photography - just about every forum on every topic gets its share of trolls. The best and only advice - DON'T take the bait. Ignore them - they eventually go away.

    What he said. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Here we go again...

    All excellent points and some quite honestly I did not really consider. Thank you.

    I paid $2785.97 usd ( using the Sony online store offered discounts) for my a7rII which puts it in the same price I paid for my a99 when released. Yeah it is high but comparing the a99 to the a7rII for my specific needs and wants is is much better than my a99. I hate paying $2k-$3k for digital camera bodies but unfortunately it appears that because of us it is what the market will bare. Sad but true.....

    I have no issues with real problems being discussed with people that have money in the game. In fact I learn from it and plan workarounds for real issues that may effect so aspect of my photography. What bothers me is those who have no skin in the game and go to absurd extremes to find anything they can wave a red flag about ( like that stained glass artifacts if you push the darks 5 stops ... REALLY?) or those users who due to not knowing better complain about issues that are in fact user issues that if they would of read the manual would not of happened.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That is Guy over the moon with his A7rII. I am one of those chowderheads.
    No it's diffrent . I love a good debate and figuring out the workarounds. I'm annoyed by extremely bad info being passed around even by reviewers, bloggers and subscription based. This release brought out the worst of them and Sony is a big against the Giants target. I get that and I even get the trolls baiting everyone. What I don't get is the ongoing minor things that turn into monstrous problem and endless debate, wars and bad feelings. I'm excited about this cam but I'm not blind either and I know what I have in my hands. I'm a work to solutions type person not a bitch a moment. Heck if I had a bitch a moment personality. I would be all over a lot of OEMS. I move on with a lot of debate. I say my peace and turn the channel. As one of the owners here you learn a lot. Also bottom line for me is getting folks excited about photography. End of day that's all I really care about.

    Btw I love the minor complaint thread. It's good to know and you learn from it. But really it's all about the people posting to these threads. GetDPI does not have the people that cause problems. That's a credit to you guys. I have not sent out a warning to anyone in maybe two years about being a jerk here. That's unbelievable .that does not exist anywhere else
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    I paid $2785.97 usd ( using the Sony online store offered discounts) ...
    I guess this is almost a moot point as Sony is closing their online store in 12 days, but where are these discounts?

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Don't know if it is still available but when I pre ordered in early July and used their Sony store USA phone number to order they offered 15% of the camera purchase price towards buying accessories. I got the vertical grip and two extra batteries with my 15% value. Because these were available at the time of pre order they sent these right away and charged my card full value. Then on the 5th when they shipped my a7rII they charged my card the $2785 which was the 15% off value subtracted from the MSRP.

    Remember you had to use the USA Sony stores phone number to get that offer not just clicking buy on the site. Also they gave me free next day FedEx shipping as well which with the two shipments was $70 I saved there too.

    I mentioned this sale back in July here and on some other sites and verified it through the manager of the Sony Pro Service department that I deal with. Once he verified it we both pre ordered that way
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Rawfa - the A7rII is $1k over the competition?

    A7rII - $3200
    Canon 5ds - $3900
    Nikon d810 - $3300 (current factory sale $3000)

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    Re: Here we go again...

    This blog post encapsulates what we've been talking about:

    http://www.canonwatch.com/off-brand-...a-of-the-year/

    I know we would expect this sort of thing from some Canon fanboys, but this author makes no attempt to do any real research. Notice the vague references to "authoritative" user forum posts as a given fact? Notice how the author apparently hasn't even held an A7rII in his hand, and yet proclaims the new Sony -isn't- a pro camera, but a consumer camera with pro features (meaning what???)... at "pro prices".

    The only thing missing is the click bait. Oh wait, there's that too!

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Well here is a review sans sugar coating by a guy who does love (and own) the camera but can still see clearly:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/izumiflowers/20325321840/

    Basically shows why the chowder heads are talking so much, informed or not. Hands down the best review I have yet read. Utterly ruthless, but he's keeping the camera LOL And he explains it.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Well here is a review sans sugar coating by a guy who does love (and own) the camera but can still see clearly:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/izumiflowers/20325321840/

    Basically shows why the chowder heads are talking so much, informed or not. Hands down the best review I have yet read. Utterly ruthless, but he's keeping the camera LOL And he explains it.
    Well, that is an informed* review as far as I can tell unlike the one where the reviewer hadn't even touched the camera (Canon Rumors). I appreciate a sans sugar coating review that asks the right questions and considers different uses that photographers have. Some reviewers are frankly uninformed about how gear should work under pressure.

    On that note, photographers should be aware that some so-called reviews are in fact stealth advertising. From time to time I'm disappointed to find that hardware (& software) reviews are written by people who have some relationship with the manufacturer or got a freebie as part of a product launch and aren't disclosing that in their review. I doubt that someone is going to review things as objectively if they didn't pay retail with their own money.

    *Edited to add: on second thought, it's a bit odd that the reviewer's photos all seem to be made with that A7, not the A7RII. And many of the photos have a strange haze over them.
    Last edited by Zlatko Batistich; 16th August 2015 at 13:21.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfa View Post
    I have a long term love and hate relationship with Sony. I've had the NEX5, NEX5N, NEX6, NEX7, TWO A7, A5100, A6000 and the A7S...all of them always came very close but always left some key feature keeping it from REALLY making it. And to be honest I really think that is Sony's game. Why put it all on the table when you can slowly phase evolution and milk your customers until you've "finally got it"? I mean they could have implemented the A6000's AF on their FF cameras but that wouldn't have been profitable. They KNOW they could have implemented their A7S high iso capabilities and their video features on their A7 series but why if you could charge double. Sony has a strategy of always making the user choose and between features and it REALLY makes me angry because one way or the other you will have to leave out some important features....
    Now, after keeping the customers waiting for years they FINALLY come up with a camera that FINALLY may gather all the features and bring peace and love to the consumer's hearts
    BUT this camera just happens to cost us$3200...which is ok, because with all the incredible hype that Sony has been creating this MUST be the holy grail of cameras...after all it's us$1000 more expensive than it's main Canon and Nikon competitors....after all, look at all the blogs, footage, reviews, etc. Come on, guys...you're really telling me that i's NOT natural to be frustrated to pay us$3200 to find out the camera does not live up to the hype?? I think it's absolutely natural. In the US it's pretty easy to rent the newest gear and find out which is the right one for you, but rental is NOT a world wide culture and for many people in different countries either you buy the camera based on reviews, forums, blogs, tests, etc or you simply don't buy it. And let me tell you it's pretty darn frustrating to pay that kind of money to find out that a camera simply won't deliver what their competitors have been delivering for YEARS. Not that it matters for most, but since I've moved to Brazil this situation is even more aggravated as there are ridiculous import taxes here....The A7RII will probably cost a minimum of US$4500 here! Seriously, even when compared to the top DSLR today us$3200 is a heck of LOT of money! For that kind of money, you SHOULD expect the best and Sony SHOULD deliver it...anything else it's just plain disrespect for their clients by Sony.

    P.S - I'm a HUGE Sony mirrorless fan and I really REALLY WANT Sony to succeed...but just show a little respect for your customers.
    Rawfa, I would not pay $4500 usd for this camera ..... but that is just me: I choked at the $2785 I paid as I still have difficulty justifying spending the going prices for digital bodies. That import tax is ridiculous..... I don't even pay sales taxes in the state I live in. Personally, I'd take a vacation and have one shipped to my hotel in a much less expensive environment.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    As far as the reviews and the chatter goes about this new body I am going to just ignore them from now on till I personally find something that negatively effects my images or workflow with this a7rII. So far it is still checking every box and I am kicking myself for not getting into the FF E mount earlier.

    I see a topic now about DR being reduced if one shoots 70 30sec exposures in a row at 3200iso ...... I am sure the astro guys would be effected by this and of validity to them but as of right now after 50+ years of shooting I have not once shot with those parameters .... not even once (nor do I expect to). But I do see that it could be a show stopper for the milky way photogs and would knock this body out of consideration IF none of the other cameras out there don't do the exact or similar temperature rising issue with the same parameters. Where is the contradicting data that brand X does not show the same tendencies?

    Guess someone next will be investigating if the camera is dropped from 2' it will survive but at 20'+ she is toast..... valid issue for sky diving photogs I mean if the limits are pushed beyond normal design intent operation or usage then quite possibly issues will surface but are these valid points to mark a camera down on or are they just a witch hunt? If I was a Sony engineer and read some of the extremes that are being complained about I would just shake my head and say "Yeah, SO?"

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Yeah, ya know I set the intervalometer to shoot 100 high speed continuos shots. I then gently tossed the camera in the air. The damn piece of %$^& failed to find focus on nearly 25% of those shots. NOT a pro camera!

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post
    yeah, ya know i set the intervalometer to shoot 100 high speed continuos shots. I then gently tossed the camera in the air. The damn piece of %$^& failed to find focus on nearly 25% of those shots. Not a pro camera!

    :d
    :rotfl:

    Funny ... what is a "Pro Camera" anyway? You know one of my prints that has yielded the most attention and accolades (along with revenue) was shot with the first generation "loser's" camera the NEX5 with a CG45mm on it....... Now I earn a living with SLT's but I never had a issue with the "loser" camera's and their IQ for scenics. IMO the NEX line was a gateway technology to the current lines of mirrorless and got everyone thinking out of the SLR box mentality.

    I think too many are wrapped up in nomenclature and pay no attention to the 12" behind the camera and how that area and the hardware can work together creating results. Heck that body is junk and cannot be a useful tool if it loses DR after a half an hour of continuous shooting in the summertime... wth?


    Ok I am done with this ..... it is interesting every launch seems to follow this same predictable path. Some of my best cameras score above requirement but not exceptional.... guess I am a sucker for for equipment that is about par for the course Now all I need is a 55mm 1.8, a 90mm macro, and a 70-200mm and I will be one happy camper with a empty wallet .......
    Last edited by Jim DE; 16th August 2015 at 15:17.

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    ... the kolari mod, which has brought my own A7 off the shelf...
    What has your experience with this mod been? Any IQ change with adapted reflex lenses?

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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    What has your experience with this mod been? Any IQ change with adapted reflex lenses?
    Any lens made for film is improved, but the difference may be slight at 50mm. This 400USD mod allows the A7 to shoot the ZM18, SEM21, 28 cron, and even the ZM 35/2 biogon quite well. Even the 35/2.5 skopar was judged acceptable by many who saw my tests.

    AF seems unaffected. There is no extra dust, despite the absence post mod of the shaker. I did have to learn to edit all over again, to get the look I really like, but now there are times when I honestly have to look to see if the M9 or A7 took the shot

    As to reflex glass: here is a case in point, the nFD 24/2, a legendary Canon wide, considered the best of all the pre-EF mount wide angles by some. The A7r and the A7 hated it. Totally unusable.

    Here it is on the A7.mod:


    Bridge in to Blue by unoh7, nFD 24/2

    Here is the 28 cron:


    Red Curves by unoh7, on Flickr

    and while the nFD 21/2.8 was decent on the A7, it has markedly improved:


    DSC02453 by unoh7, on Flickr

    I like the A7 again The one thing which still punches my BP, is the shutter noise. The camera cannot be used at discreet events in any mode, without drawing looks. I still cannot believe an 1800USD camera had a shutter which sounds like a 19th century industrial sewing machine. At least r2 has a silent mode, though it does rob the RAWs of detail in the shadows. Or so the chowderheads cry noisily. And demonstrate.

    Even my long glass seems cleaner, but my really detailed testing was with the RF wides.

    Finally there is the 25/2 Batis, but the footprint is pretty big. An A7 with that lens is as big and obvious as a D810 with a wide nikon prime. Weight not so bad at 335 grams.

    The long and the short of it is Sony has left a huge hole open for a future FF EVIL with a compact footprint to appear. Why does the batis need to be so big? The coverglass will not handle short register well. That was only a choice, and another maker may see that the lenses do not have to be so big....any of them, if the sensor is optimized for a short register.

    Of course rare is the camera which could not be better, and I very much enjoy what the Sony shooters have been doing, whatever their personal relationship with the equipment may be

    What is really ironic is that while Sony totally ignores Leica, recent tests with the A7r2 show the WATE as the best UWA option available, with performance actually superior to the M246. The WATE beats the new CV 15 v3, which really surprised me:

    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/top...77/12#13146713

    Think about that:
    A7r2 3k
    Used WATE 3.8k
    Batis 1300
    FE 35/2.8 650
    FE 55/1.8 650
    then some good long glass.

    For this kind of money one can put together a very good M kit, today, which is going to hold value better. Now many are not interested, I understand, but that's what makes a 700USD A7 and Kolari mod very attractive. 1100 USD and you are not far off the M240, with a body that loves, really loves, SLR glass, which is alot cheaper too.
    Last edited by uhoh7; 16th August 2015 at 21:30.
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    Re: Here we go again...

    I did have to learn to edit all over again, to get the look I really like,
    Well worth the effort.

    Your first samples were very dull. Left me wondering why you were excited.

  49. #49
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    Re: Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    As to reflex glass: here is a case in point, the nFD 24/2, a legendary Canon wide, considered the best of all the pre-EF mount wide angles by some. The A7r and the A7 hated it. Totally unusable.

    Here it is on the A7.mod:


    Bridge in to Blue by unoh7, nFD 24/2
    .
    The Canon FDn 24/2 is also quite nice on the A7RII. Clean edges and corners with no smearing and reasonably sharp.

    Carl
    Gallery
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    Re: Here we go again...

    A bigger problem for me, at least in my experience is quite the opposite from this thread.

    Often, a new product is praised to the sky by many 'pros' in their blogs/reviews, at least the ones who have an 'in' and are able to get pre-production samples. The very fact that they can get these to 'review' suggests a relationship with the manufacturer which makes everything they say somewhat suspect.

    Back on topic

    I am loving the A7RII so far. Definitely an improvement over its predecessor. Whether it is worth the extra $1000 over the original all depends on the individual.

    Talking about 'bang for the buck'? Phase One anybody?

    Everything in life is relative.
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