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Thread: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Whereas the default sharpening settings look pretty good to me for the A7II, I find that the A7RII files need something extra in order to look good at 100%. Since the RII has no AA filter, I'm guessing this is because the lenses struggle to keep up with the sensor resolution.

    C1 users, what sharpening settings are you using for A7RII? I'd prefer to sharpen on capture with an eye towards 100% inspection on the web since I'm presenting these files in reviews and such.
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    Member Zlatko Batistich's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Since the RII has no AA filter, I'm guessing this is because the lenses struggle to keep up with the sensor resolution.
    That's likely be part of it. In addition, I think you're looking at an image that's about twice as big while you're keeping the same effective viewing distance. As cameras increase in resolution, 100% viewing looks worse and worse. And vice versa, as resolution decreases, 100% viewing looks better and better. For example, the 4mp file of the original Canon 1D looks beautifully crisp and sharp at 100% because it's a much smaller image.
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Try

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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Not sure you need any sharpening at all. Are you printing or just posting?

    Kirk

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    Not sure you need any sharpening at all. Are you printing or just posting?

    Kirk
    I do both. For printing, I have a process that works for me, which is to do all my sharpening in Nik Sharpener Pro.

    What I was asking about here are what would be good sharpening settings in C1 for A7RII to look optimal for pixel peeping when I present full-res JPEG image samples in lens reviews. I also provide the RAW files for download, but most people seem to just look at the JPEGs, and I want those JPEGs, when viewed at 100% on-screen, to represent the best that a lens can do.

    Guy's proposed setting seem like a good choice (higher amount, higher threshold, and smaller radius than the defaults). I need to try them out when I get home.

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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Amin

    The lack of sharpness (for want of a better phrase) that you are seeing when viewing at 100% perhaps relates to a point I was making in an earlier thread about 'lack of bite’ in the A7r II files.

    I am not an engineer (I’m often amazed at the scientific knowledge displayed by contributors on this site) but, in my opinion, this softness might be a result of the small pixel size used to achieve such high resolutions in a camera such as the A7r II; without wishing to harp on about MF (I’m well aware that the A7r II and my MFDB are totally different animals), a difference I see in the images from my 39MP P45+ back, and 60MP P65+ backs that I have hired, is that, even though they are very high resolution, they still look absolutely tack sharp at 100% view on screen, which I guess could be down to the larger pixels.

    Personally, I’m not sure that increasing the sharpening in C1 Pro is the answer as I found that the A7r II files started to ‘fall apart’ with not much more sharpening than the default values; I generally find that Phase does a pretty good job with their default sharpening values for most cameras and rarely feel the need to change them for my P45+ back or my Canons. You could try adding a bit of ‘Structure’, say an amount of 10-15, but I wouldn’t use this for portraits of people due to the effect it can have on skin texture.

    Perhaps this ‘softness’ when viewing images at 100% is just something we have to get accustomed to when pixel peeping images from sensors that have small pixels and realise that, at normal sizes, whether on screen or in print, the images will still appear very sharp and detailed. Maybe one of the reasons that I felt a little underwhelmed when viewing the early images of the A7r II is that I’m not used to seeing this ‘softness’ when pixel-peeping: both my MFDB and much lower resolution Canon cameras (5D II & 6D) all have larger pixels than the A7r II and images from all of these show apparent sharpness at 100% on screen. In spite of this, I’m certain that images from the A7r II would look sharper than my much lower resolution Canons if printed at similar sizes…

    Anyway, just a few personal thoughts on the matter.

    Best

    Liam
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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Here are 100% crops. Top is default (120/0.8/1), bottom is Guy's suggestion (320/0.6/0.6):




    That crop is from near the center of this pic:


    DSC02576 by Amin Sabet, on Flickr


    I think Guy's suggested settings look great!
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Well, that area of the image has been sharpened. I'd just be aware, when using the particular settings you've chosen, of the effect on blown highlights, noise in shadow areas, halos, and aliasing artefacts at high contrast edges and in images containing thin straight lines e.g. power lines. I also feel that such a high amount of sharpening will give an 'artificial' look to some images.

    Anyway, these are just my personal views and I guess you're happy with what you've seen in your images so far with these settings.

    Best

    Liam
    Last edited by LDJ; 17th August 2015 at 14:56.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Mine is a little agressives but good for landscape type stuff. But you can lower the structure slightly as well with it. My setting gives you the pop. But I probably would not go past this . If you dropped it to 250 .6 .6 maybe more normal. These files have a smoother look to them so depends on what your after. Most times folks over sharpen so you don't want to do that either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    I think a little overaggressive is okay for full-res images meant to show what a lens can do (in a review)

    For my own personal stuff, I would sharpen less aggressively than this.

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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I do both. For printing, I have a process that works for me, which is to do all my sharpening in Nik Sharpener Pro.

    What I was asking about here are what would be good sharpening settings in C1 for A7RII to look optimal for pixel peeping when I present full-res JPEG image samples in lens reviews. I also provide the RAW files for download, but most people seem to just look at the JPEGs, and I want those JPEGs, when viewed at 100% on-screen, to represent the best that a lens can do.

    Guy's proposed setting seem like a good choice (higher amount, higher threshold, and smaller radius than the defaults). I need to try them out when I get home.
    Since you have Nik Sharpener Pro, can you do Output Sharpening for display without resizing?

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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I think a little overaggressive is okay for full-res images meant to show what a lens can do (in a review)

    For my own personal stuff, I would sharpen less aggressively than this.
    Not understanding that at all. How is sharpening helps to demonstrate the ability of a lens?

    OT: I am amazed that you are over 2500 shots with your new camera!
    FWIW, I have the A7s for quite some time now and it has about 6500 actuations.

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Quote Originally Posted by hiepphotog View Post
    Since you have Nik Sharpener Pro, can you do Output Sharpening for display without resizing?
    Yes, just an extra step. Would be easier to do in C1.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Not understanding that at all. How is sharpening helps to demonstrate the ability of a lens?
    Well, to you or me it may not help or hurt. I would go straight to the RAW files, if available. But if I post full-res JPEGs converted from RAW without sharpening, a lot of people are going to look at those samples and conclude "soft lens", and it doesn't much matter if I state at the outset that I processed without sharpening. It could be the sharpest lens in the world, and a large subset of readers will think "meh" when they see those unsharpened images. All the more so when looking at full-resolution images from a 42MP camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    OT: I am amazed that you are over 2500 shots with your new camera!
    FWIW, I have the A7s for quite some time now and it has about 6500 actuations.
    I'm pretty sure I am well under 1000 shots and that the file naming was a result of card sharing between A7RII and A7II.
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    Re: Sharpening settings for A7RII in C1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    Yes, just an extra step. Would be easier to do in C1.




    Well, to you or me it may not help or hurt. I would go straight to the RAW files, if available. But if I post full-res JPEGs converted from RAW without sharpening, a lot of people are going to look at those samples and conclude "soft lens", and it doesn't much matter if I state at the outset that I processed without sharpening. It could be the sharpest lens in the world, and a large subset of readers will think "meh" when they see those unsharpened images. All the more so when looking at full-resolution images from a 42MP camera.



    I'm pretty sure I am well under 1000 shots and that the file naming was a result of card sharing between A7RII and A7II.
    Takes a lot of effort to present pics in the best possible fashion for internet viewing - good on you for caring.
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