Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Illiah, Tim and others appreciate you guys being here to help us out through this one. This one we needed the science.
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The file rendered into ProPhoto RGB is acceptably clean, needs only minor retouch on small spots, done in less than 4 minutes. The conversion to Adobe RGB, however, is the whole different story. Concentrating on the camera and shooting conditions shifts the accent into the wrong direction here.
Are you talking about a few (5-10) very small edges here and there (in the order to ~10 pixels) where there is visible posterisation? How small are we talking and are you just softening those edges to fix things?The file rendered into ProPhoto RGB is acceptably clean, needs only minor retouch on small spots, done in less than 4 minutes. The conversion to Adobe RGB, however, is the whole different story. Concentrating on the camera and shooting conditions shifts the accent into the wrong direction here.
Just processed the D810 and A7R files in Lightroom with 60,0.7,70 sharpening. The Sony is way worse than the Nikon in terms of what I think is being termed orange peel. However, when I process them as raw tiffs in RPP and then apply sharpening in lightroom (the same settings) and I see very little difference.Illah, Tim and others appreciate you guys being here to help us out through this one. This one we needed the science.
David, I don't agree that the boundaries of the issue have been defined.
We don't know to what extent (if any) Lloyd's use of lens compensation settings affected the gaps in the raw data.
We don't know to what extent (if any) another camera with uncompressed or losslessly compressed 14-bit raw would have shown similar effects with the same subject, degree of relative underexposure, and color management.
Hi Erik, I think no sins are committed so no stones need to be thrown. But you raise an interesting point. I've learned most of my sharpening from reading a lot of material by Bruce Frazer and Jeff Schewe who tell us to do as little "capture sharpening" as possible and then do your creative and final sharpening specifically for the output size and medium you're preparing the file for (print or screen). Since the sharpening settings in Lightroom (and I think C1 as well) are "capture sharpening" I do those very mildly and not far from the default settings. Just enough to judge if a file is sharp enough to further process or not. This way I hardly ever have problems with exaggerating noise and/or orange peel effect. After export from LR to prepare the file for printing or web showing I do a final round of noise reduction (only when required) followed by output sharpening specific for the output size and medium. I like the results this workflow gives me and wonder what advantages you (and may be the others you mention) see in doing a very aggressive capture sharpening, since that tends to exaggerate noise and other artifacts that are present in the file. What do you think I am missing by doing only a very mild capture sharpening?
Thanks for the explanation Erik, and an interesting article. My "easy" conclusion is that I'm not losing a lot of SQL with less aggressive capture sharpening for my camera's (for the A7 and A7r it's 1 point while about 5 are needed for a visible difference). I also assume most of these tests were done at low iso and low noise, so for higher iso pictures with more noise the orange peel effect when aggressively capture sharpening might actually lower the SQF (pure assumption from my side, has this been tested?) vs. more moderate capture sharpening. The counter argument might be that the orange peel actually increases our perception of sharpness (like in the old film days film grain could also increase the perception of sharpness).This article may be worth a look: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/i...y-i-cannot-see-a-difference-in-a2-size-prints
BTW, I got my A7rII today.
Best regards
Erik
Some were a little more pronounced, like about 50 red pixels long (100 pixels, if after demosaicking)Are you talking about a few (5-10) very small edges here and there (in the order to ~10 pixels) where there is visible posterisation? How small are we talking and are you just softening those edges to fix things?
Some were a little more pronounced, like about 50 red pixels long (100 pixels, if after demosaicking)
Dear Erik,Hi Iliah,
I guess you posted the wrong image?
Best regards
Erik