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Thread: An interesting Review of a7rII

  1. #101
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    For myself, I consider Ming to be one of the very very few photographer/reviewers whose columns I read.
    Don't trash Ming because he might have highlighted shortcomings of your camera.

    That is what good reviewers are supposed to do.

    p.s I f he seems biased towards Nikon..there is a reason. Nikon really are that good, but not without their own shortcomings.
    I could not agree more!

    I am sure that the A7rII is a very good and capable camera and I cannot even say if I would love to hold one and be able to connect to it, as I so far had no chance to get my hands on one.

    But finally for me the system is what counts and what I absolutely hate is mounting third party lenses via adapters, even if it is mounting an A-mount lens via an adapter to the FE mount. Again, that's just me!

    Thus the consequence for folks like me is to wait till the FE system gets all the choices I need and require before it can replace any other system which gives that advantage. And so far Nikon - while sure they have been pretty lazy in following the bandwagon - at least still have their big Nikkor system advantage (as Canon does). So I - and I am only talking about me again - can find the lens I want in that system pretty easily, while I cannot in many cases in the FE system.

    Now if I restrict myself only to the available FE lens lineup, which seems to contain some very excellent marvels, then I might easily be able to get the A7rII with that native glass, add it to my camera collection and be a very happy camper. And that might happen sooner than later.
    Life is an ever changing journey
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  2. #102
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    I actually find the A7RII a joy to use with most of my Leica M lenses (except a few moderately wides) and all my Leica R lenses. Of course, I also use native FE lenses when I prefer AF.
    With best regards, K-H.
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  3. #103
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by spence View Post
    FWIW, E.J. Peiker over at naturescapes, who is always extremely tuned in to technical issues, said he's getting an average of 234 shots per charge with IBIS off, airplane mode on, using a 50/50 mix of EVF and LCD, and 2 minute sleep, and camera completely off while doing something other than shooting. About 25% worse battery life than the A7R, he said.

    He has no axe to grind with Sony, either--he is so happy with the A7RII's rendering of landscapes, particularly fine distant details, that he will no longer use the D810 for landscapes.
    Anyone who defends the Sony A7 batteries has confused the camera with a dear family member. The batteries are indefensible. Can you work around the issue? Yes. Is it a "show stopper"? No. But the camera is so obviously underpowered that a denial on this point shows the owner is in love, not thinking clearly

    It was a cynical choice made by a design committee in a troubled corporation. The original A7 project was cancelled several times in the year before release, such is the confusion and panic at Sony. But that in itself is really not so striking: what have Canikon given us? Huge machines like modern speed graphics.

    No one seems to just take a look at the nice little rangefinders of the 30s. Leica also is bloated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    What's funny is lloyd also gets slammed by the Leica folks when he suggests elsewhere that the Sonys are "the death knell for Leica M"

    Nevertheless, I agree with what he is saying here. The A7s are simply not complete cameras in the way of a D810 or Leica M or 6D. I'd rather have an A7 myself, than most of those, but to me that is a valid point. The reason the Sonys are on fire is that they are the only ones making a FF EVIL besides Leica. That won't last forever.

    Anyway, every camera has it's faults. The Canikons are impossible to carry everyday. My beloved M9 is too big, too heavy, and has a very ridiculous shutter. My A7.mod has stupid batteries, stupid shutter, stupid menus, stupid controls, stupid RAWs and is scary fragile. I still like it But I see no reason to deny what is obvious.

    I have my own faults; I don't deny them either.

    Know better, do better. How will Sony know better unless the photographers speak up?
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  4. #104
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Aren't you blowing the battery issue way out of proportion?
    With best regards, K-H.

  5. #105
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    The whole battery thing is about as silly as it gets. Im baffled by it. I just got home shot all day , review on every shot than reviewing images with clients on camera at least three times . Shot about 580 shots, camera turned off a few times. Shot the factory and shot products and I went through 2 batteries exactly. Both batteries on charger be ready in a hour. Im sorry if I do not have that kind of patience to change a battery once or twice a day and put them on chargers than I really should get out of the business. When I shoot runway no review and crop mode i will go through 4 batteries in a day with about 3 to 4 thousand images give or take less battery for that to be honest. When I need to stretch it I can besides I do not want to see 4k images either as that slows down the shooting so I turn review off and get a great set of battery life and Im happy. Why would I bitch about this , I actually like the small size as i can pack 4 in a small case put in the side pocket of my back and weighs basically nothing. Now Im getting paid so I have zero amount of right to bitch anyway but batteries is the last thing I even remotely think about. YMMV

    I came from Phase backs not much bigger battery but they are and I would go through a day shooting at least 4 batteries and 200 shots. I thought that was good. I guess I still remember my film days.

    Oh and BTW the camera worked flawlessly. Its such a pleasure to shoot over the A7r, its actually quite a joy. Im no fanboy so don't confuse me with one. But I like this camera and again I still think its the best digital 35mm I have shot yet. Just to be clear I bought Sony and comparing it to anything else than I am not even remotely interested. I bought Sony not Nikon or canon. There off my radar and have been for a long time.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #106
    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    I was always told that photography is all about compromise. We have never had the "perfect" setup, be it Camera body, Lens, film or now more recently sensor.

    When I think back to the days of pushing or pulling film and reciprocity failure, never mind working in the dark room in total darkness inhaling God knows what toxic fumes trying to coax a pleasing image from the enlarger lens with dodging and burning, these people today in the digital age have never had it so good.

    It's very simple, you do the very best you can within the limitation of the equipment you have in your hand. I have always believed that content or subject matter is 99% of what most people see in a photograph, photographers see the other 1% and are often so blinded by the shortcomings of that 1% that they miss the pleasure of the other 99%.

    This is all madness, technology has it's limits. As those boundaries are overcome we will find new ways to stress the equipment in ways we never imagined before .... for what ... to prove it can't cope with extreme conditions.

    Keep chasing the dream .... let me know when you find it!
    A7II, FE 35, 55 C/Y 18, 28, 85, 100, 28-85
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  7. #107
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Well, I stay with what he said, on fire, because it is true since the NEX venture :



    The sensor might be good but it is blatantly limited. Maybe it is limited in the A7RII but I heard that Sony had TWO cameras to show, one of them being "pro".

    This camera is obviously not the pro version.

    Best Sony camera to date for me are A850 and A900 (apart LV). They know how to please pros, if they want.

    If they put this sensor without hardware limitations in a DSLR with OVF (not this crappy semi-translucent mirror) I might be in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eoin View Post
    for what ... to prove it can't cope with extreme conditions.

    Keep chasing the dream .... let me know when you find it!
    No need to chase anything. Almost one year ago my D700 got fully slammed on a rock with an old metal 180 plugged to it. I felt. On top of that it got totally immersed in the river. Result is that he got a very little crack between two pieces of the magnesium shell, a hiccup at restart and worked fine till last week when he felt from one meter on the mount, in the rocks, while I was changing lens. This time I bent the mount so it need servicing. My little finger tell me that no re-calibration will be needed for af or whatever. I bet that the D8xx are almost as solid. I also bet that an A7r2 will not pass a year with me, not even a month... and I'm shooting ppl for now. Imagine when I'll start landscape next year

    For 3500$ every body deserve a tank, even if this tank is little and weight nothing. We have the alloys/composites and technology for that. We deserve military class products or at least the option of buying a military class version of such a tool.
    Last edited by Hulyss Bowman; 26th August 2015 at 16:56.
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  8. #108
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Actually not sure I would call anything a Pro camera even though the industry does do that. Whatever is in a Pros hands is a Pro tool. I keep reading people talking for Pros. Well I honestly don't need anyone telling me what I need in my gear locker. Thats my responsibility. I fail I fail than it would be solely my fault. Honestly this is a endless debate. All I can say is any system I have bought I have been faced with compromises , work arounds and have paid far far far more than this thing costs. Its not perfect but this has been the worst release to anything yet announced and the most bashed camera that has ever been announced than on the other hand people are singing its praises. We are one screwed up release
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  9. #109
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    For me, Guy, it mean only endurance and ruggedness. When I have the camera on strap on shoulder, I do not want to care if it hit (gently) a wall or a tree or a rock even with the lens. I want to be able to put it in wet moss or snow or dusty rocks or dirty bush while I try to climb something. The lenses should be good and solid, at least in par with the body so same brand. I do not want to worry when I give it to my model or a child. I do not want my client able to buy it easily because it is mainstream (for example, in France, top nikon body can't be sold every where; only selected distribution). The physical integrity of the camera is extremely important for me, more than what is inside (at least the inside should be reasonable). I need to "trust" it because I'm not soft, on field.

    There is a meaning behind "pro" camera and I do not link it to what I have behind blue eyes.

    The perfect camera can exist if every brands collaborate to make it
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  10. #110
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Hb, you shot Sigma DPxm's for quite awhile professionally that can be bought for $600 ( hardly a camera your customers could not buy) and are not all that weatherproof and feel like a plastic brick (instead of a toy) in one's hands. They do not seem to fit your criteria you hold Sony a7x feet to the fire for. Just saying...Odd huh?

    I like my DP2m as well but then again I like my a7rII better.

  11. #111
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    Hb, you shot Sigma DPxm's for quite awhile professionally that can be bought for $600 ( hardly a camera your customers could not buy) and are not all that weatherproof and feel like a plastic brick (instead of a toy) in one's hands. They do not seem to fit your criteria you hold Sony a7x feet to the fire for. Just saying...Odd huh?

    I like my DP2m as well but then again I like my a7rII better.
    no your wrong. Only one or two pictures on my site and social media are from sigma gear. It is 98% Nikon 2% LeicaS. I proved that we can shoot professionally with every thing if we have enough faith... and time. I have more faith than time so I shoot what is efficient (no more sigma since... 3 years almost). I keep it only when I go hiking, once in a while, just to lurk at 100% at home before formatting the card (no joke).

    I've always been a DSLR guy and a film guy, before all.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  12. #112
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    HB I do not doubt you also used other cameras but I remember numerous posts on the sigma forum of B&W images you were using professionally shot with the DP2m and your efforts with sigma to improve the image for the 3.

    My point is though is any and all cameras can be used as so called pro cameras. The pro occupies the 12" behind the tool and decides what tool suits his needs and wants best. To set specific minimum specs a camera must meet to be a so called pro body and if it does not meet these it just a non profit user body is ridiculous. I make money on all my cameras and right now that is from the lowly a33 and original nex 5 right on up through my a99. I have just acquired my first a7x series body and just have not made money using it yet but surely will at some point. My criteria is IQ and every camera today can deliver this if we do our part no matter what the make.

  13. #113
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The whole battery thing is about as silly as it gets. Im baffled by it. I just got home shot all day , review on every shot than reviewing images with clients on camera at least three times . Shot about 580 shots, camera turned off a few times. Shot the factory and shot products and I went through 2 batteries exactly. Both batteries on charger be ready in a hour. Im sorry if I do not have that kind of patience to change a battery once or twice a day and put them on chargers than I really should get out of the business. When I shoot runway no review and crop mode i will go through 4 batteries in a day with about 3 to 4 thousand images give or take less battery for that to be honest. When I need to stretch it I can besides I do not want to see 4k images either as that slows down the shooting so I turn review off and get a great set of battery life and Im happy. Why would I bitch about this , I actually like the small size as i can pack 4 in a small case put in the side pocket of my back and weighs basically nothing. Now Im getting paid so I have zero amount of right to bitch anyway but batteries is the last thing I even remotely think about. YMMV

    I came from Phase backs not much bigger battery but they are and I would go through a day shooting at least 4 batteries and 200 shots. I thought that was good. I guess I still remember my film days.

    Oh and BTW the camera worked flawlessly. Its such a pleasure to shoot over the A7r, its actually quite a joy. Im no fanboy so don't confuse me with one. But I like this camera and again I still think its the best digital 35mm I have shot yet. Just to be clear I bought Sony and comparing it to anything else than I am not even remotely interested. I bought Sony not Nikon or canon. There off my radar and have been for a long time.
    Well Guy, according to some posters here, you must be defending a flawed product from a "troubled corporation". The batteries in this consumer level camera are indefensible.

    At this point, I can't determine what the biggest overblown criticism is. Before, it was those awful lossy RAW files, the crummy 12 bit images using the silent shutter, the unintuitive menu system. Now we add the indefensible battery. What will we discover next?

    I took some photos. They look pretty good. I must be doing something wrong.

  14. #114
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    one post above
    I also used sigma cameras and wasted horrendous time and dedication on top of my job to defend this brand because it got severely bashed. What you seen on forums was just the result of a double work. For my photographic work I do not use any sigma gear at all, and wont. It was just dedication for a community but I have no time anymore for it (and the brand/community as changed in a way I do not like).

    Just to clear things up.

    I get your point about your vision of pro material but I'm entrepreneur. So put you foots into an entrepreneur working in building. He need a vehicle to carry bricks so he go to Ford. The representative will sell him a pro vehicle like a transit, not a civilian version. A lot of components on this pro vehicle are reinforced such as brakes, tires and other parts. Often, the engine is the same. You won't do the same job with your vauxhall insignia estate, trust me.

    Now I hope you get my point when I describe a "pro" material.

    But it is your opinion I respect it.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  15. #115
    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    I wonder if Sony backs up its product rated for 500,000 shutter cycles, when the shutter dies after 12 months since the purchase date without reaching its rated limit?
    Did anyone inquire?

  16. #116
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    vehicles might not be the best example to use on me as I was in that industry in manufacturing management for 36 years and retired from there 8 years ago. The differences are far less than you may think and the same people put the parts specified on as the unit passes whether heavy duty or light duty. Just take my word the true differences between the grades is much less than one might think. But yes I get your point and like you respect your right to this opinion as well.

    As far as cameras I like you I am sure have never had a client/ customer question my choice in hardware or even care... It's all about the results!
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  17. #117
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Ming Thein seems to have adopted Diglloyd's business model of making mountains out of mole-hills to drive traffic to his site. Not entirely unexpected given their recent collaborations.
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  18. #118
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting Review of a7rII

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Well, I stay with what he said, on fire, because it is true since the NEX venture :
    Opinions and feelings are never false or true, they're just that, personal opinions and feelings.
    Only facts can be false or true and neither of these broad sweeping statement even come close to being a fact.
    Don't get me wrong, everybody is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure many people might even agree with them but let's not confuse them with facts.

    If the camera is not for you fine, no problems with that whatsoever, but why trying to convince others it's not good based on how you feel about it is something that I don't understand.
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