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An interesting Review of a7rII

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I disagree with a lot of it and he is wrong on several points. Another who cares review. I'm actually a bit surprised. He usually is pretty good. Does not even know you can tether in C1.

I have found many reasons in the last week not to read any of these and honestly I'm a much better person for not reading them. It's the worst reportage of any camera that has come to light recently. It tarnishes my lifelong career in this industry as the integrity level sank to a new low. I'm speaking in general terms. I'm going out and shoot a new test.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I disagree with a lot of it and he is wrong on several points. Another who cares review. I'm actually a bit surprised. He usually is pretty good. Does not even know you can tether in C1.

I have found many reasons in the last week not to read any of these and honestly I'm a much better person for not reading them. It's the worst reportage of any camera that has come to light recently. It tarnishes my lifelong career in this industry as the integrity level sank to a new low. I'm speaking in general terms. I'm going out and shoot a new test.
Put yourself in his shoes. How dare Sony use a new sensor on its own camera instead handing it over to Nikon?

It must be hurting real bad.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Tend to agree John. It seems what always is left out is the ability to use almost any brand lens you can imagine on a Sony mount. It's a huge plus that rarely gets mentioned. Its one of the biggest attributes of the camera
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Put yourself in his shoes. How dare Sony use a new sensor on its own camera instead handing it over to Nikon?

It must be hurting real bad.
Nikon is not going to see this sensor for at least another year IMHO.


To all our members. I would like to say I'm sorry for my lack of excitement reading these reviews. But most of them have hit a low that really bugs me to no end. I'm not a fanboy either but I like the system and I enjoy shooting it . I'm not defending Sony in any way , yes some things need better answers and solutions. I get that in total but this is a system that's not one of the big guns in the industry and it's painfully obvious many don't want it to be.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I think it's a pretty fair review - he knows the great majority of its strengths and weaknesses and admits that the combination of electronic first curtain and IBIS outweigh the compression problems. He is IMHO bullseye accurate about the pre-cooking and what it does to texture. He couldn't be more right about the messed up menu system if he tried.

In fact I can't see anything in there significant to me with which I disagree.

I've been thinking about this a lot these past 24 hours since I was alerted to, tested for and found the focus issues with the 24-70: the troubling thing about the camera is that it has so much going on, in so many opaquely interdependent ways, that half the time you're just not sure what it's up to. And I don't think that's just a learning curve thing; I think it's a culture of tackling image capture challenges with more and more gizmos, each of which is great but which, taken together, remind me of one of those 90's Sony VCRs covered in metallic stickers with a vast and shouty feature set that in the end you never quite understood. Worse, the way these gizmos interact is littered with unintentional consequences that often manifest as either operational inefficiencies or confusions (max magnified view in pure MF, anyone?) or as things that genuinely detract from what the sensor might otherwise be able to offer (pre-cooking and compression.)

Unlike Ming, I'll be keeping mine though. I happen to really like some of the glass and I really like the small form factor, even if you do have to carry more batteries. And because I am doing some 4K video stuff at the moment, that matters a lot too. But it's a camera that succeeds on the back of Canikon's misjudgement of the market as much as it does on its own merits.

Capable? Hell yeah. As good as it should be? Nowhere near.

A word on Ming: he's my favourite reviewer these days. He is very, very smart, has an eagle eye, and best of all, is the only big name reviewer whose work as an actual photographer I rate really highly.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Most telling line in review is that "it will be replaced in a year by another consumer disposable camera" ...harsh?
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
I disagree with a lot of it and he is wrong on several points. Another who cares review. I'm actually a bit surprised. He usually is pretty good. Does not even know you can tether in C1.

I have found many reasons in the last week not to read any of these and honestly I'm a much better person for not reading them. It's the worst reportage of any camera that has come to light recently. It tarnishes my lifelong career in this industry as the integrity level sank to a new low. I'm speaking in general terms. I'm going out and shoot a new test.
I like you Guy but I agrea with Ming even if I do not like him as I like you (that sound complicated but you got it).

When Ming say
...it just feels like a consumer electronic device in operation, something designed for anoraks by anoraks, not a camera...
I completely agree with him. The camera pack enormous capability but I wouldn't cry if I crash it, at all, as I wouldn't cry if I crash my A7r. So far I think today engineers might be efficient at doing things but completely miss the point of what is a camera. The elders ones from Nikon/Minolta/Pentax/Canon got it right and probably reached the pinnacle of camera design : The SLR. The Germans reached pinnacle of plane design many decades ago and the today most advanced planes use this design (not a new).

This is a disposable consumer tool, nothing more, nothing less... until they put this sensor in an Alpha A mount camera (or a Nikon but I think Nikon got the message and go back to old friend Renesas, for the good of photography and business agreements ).

Most telling line in review is that "it will be replaced in a year by another consumer disposable camera" ...harsh?
Maybe yea, but so true ...

What I also see and, IMHO, stink a bit, is the testing phase of Sony gear. While Nikon/Canon and others delegate a camera to an individual, Sony organize a meeting with all "selected" reviewers. Quickly after, it is the review war (to tell exactly the same thing). Two weeks after real release it is individual review wars. The pattern I see (who stink a bit) is that if you are a reviewer and say bad things about the product, you might be very booted for another sony testing orgy, next year. You have ppl who say "it is the best, click here to buy it" and the ones who say "it is the best because I wanna be invited next year and thus, will have plenty of audience ya know ...".

Call me foul but this device is nowhere near to be the best 35mm camera ever made on this planet. Stating that is pretty bold and opinionated, and might be dangerous for a reputation. A wise statement would be more tempered like "this camera pack the best actual techno/science and that can be a good or/and a bad thing at some levels".

Also, if I'm not wrong, the A7r2 does have absolutely NO weather sealing at all (someone should tell Lula Staff before it go Antarctica). Weather sealing mean ... pentax to start with ?

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Sony+a7R+II+Teardown/45597#
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I like you too but we need to remember as well there are a lot of very capable well established Pros shooting these Sony systems and more joining it everyday. Cameras are disposable its been that way since the first digital camera. There is no changing that fact, change of sensor requires change of body been that way since I started digital back in 1990. We are a disposable culture . The days of having anything past 5 years is rare. Look at computers, no one has one 5 years. You get my meaning.

Anyway I can just read through his bias and that part is obvious. Reviewers should be more neutral also some should not be calling Sony out in public to change there ways. Really who the heck does he think he is. Not Ming here but you can guess. I'm just having a real issue with reviewers on this announcement, maybe it's me. Don't know . Sony is not perfect by any stretch but everyone else is sitting on there *** as well. At least they are innovating , they deserve that credit.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
We are a disposable culture
I'm not buying into this, especially in photography. You know, when I will buy my first MF (instead of renting it), whatever money I have in the wallet, it will be a film camera (like Fuji GF 670 / or brand new RZpro2), a Nikon 9000 and a jobo processor, because I want a true 6x7 sensor with the quality of film >> so film. My opinion is that when a photographer want to go into serious studies or art, the best way in 2015 stay FILM. Electronic files are so fragile, media's are changing sooooo quickly. A film can be scanned, duplicated and stored forever safely far from your home and will never need a raw converter or whatever things to be "seen", even in a century (if stored with love).

It is always extremely complicated to express his own opinion to the mass. It is maybe because of internet and all should be quick/patterned asap. I think reviewers/testers should be neutral and write PDF review/test of the gear instead of opening it to the crowd.

I agree. Sony is innovating, like Minolta back in the days. But there is, I think, a VERY good reason others aren't innovating that much ;)

PS: The D810 pack some little but serious innovations for a 35mm DSLR no ?
 

Amin

Active member
My initial reaction was to think Ming was envious of how much traffic Diglloyd has been getting lately :rolleyes:.


In all seriousness though, I think Ming Thein's review boils down to this:

“Sadly, the A7RII is not a camera that gives me any pleasure to shoot at the moment, and it bothers me that I cannot put my finger on exactly why. Logically, it ticks all the boxes. Yet it does not inspire goad you on…”


This was my reply on his site, after quoting that line:

"I’ve had this feeling at times with one camera or another. For a pro, I imagine that there are cameras which bring enough practical value/function to be worthwhile even when the connection isn’t there. For an enthusiast like me, that just isn’t the case. No connection, no purchase. Luckily, I feel very connected to my A7RII. It definitely goads me on to get out and shoot.

My only real complaint is the battery life, but I can make do with two chargers and 3 batteries."


His reply:

"Well, if they do the job and don’t get in the way, it’s possible to fall in love with them in a sort of rational way eventually…like Stockholm syndrome. The D800E doesn’t inspire me or give me any joy, but it’s still around and used regularly three years on. ;)"
 

arize84

New member
Though I find Ming Thein and Lloyd Chambers obnoxious, I have to say that read like a balanced review. I have taken many great pictures with my A7 and I love the 35mm 2.8 Sonnar, but I just cannot have an emotional connection with that camera because you cannot help feel that it was designed by a consumer electronics company. That's partly why I have stayed away from any further upgrades. Ergonomically, I think the SLR design is the peak of camera design and that's why I remain a die hard fan of the A99 despite its weak AF capability. The A99 did not succeed because it was marketed by a consumer electronics company trying to sell professional camera gear (in addition to some startling design flaws); that said, even after many years of its release, no one else is offering the package of features and handling that the A99 offers. Choosing any camera system will require compromises and since not having an EVF, an articulating screen, and a full frame sensor are non-starters for me, I will continue to accept the compromises in buying Sony cameras.

Though modern cameras are electronic products, they are not disposable if made right, and when made right, we consider them classics. The Canon 5D MKI&II, Nikon D700, and (maybe Sony A99) were products that were cameras first and electronic products second, that will go down as legendary cameras in the lore of photographic equipment. I cannot say the same of any emount cameras other than perhaps the Sony A7 and the initial NEX cameras simply because they were the first of their kind.
 

Amin

Active member
He is IMHO bullseye accurate about the pre-cooking and what it does to texture.
This one I think boils down to bad ACR support for the sensor. Just like ACR does weird things with X-Trans.

I believe the raw is pre-cooked, I'd rather it weren't, and that could be the cause of the texture you are referencing, but I think this texture can be avoided in a raw processor-dependent manner.

If I had to use Lightroom, I'd be much less satisfied with A7RII image quality.
 
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Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
The only reason for reading third party reviews, if you already own the camera, is

1. You are so insecure that you are unable to rely upon your own judgement from using the camera; or

2. To find out about hidden or little used features of the camera.

I find the latter useful, but frankly, i couldn't care less whether Ming Thein does or does not like the A7RII. Do you?
 

Amin

Active member
The only reason for reading third party reviews, if you already own the camera, is

1. You are so insecure that you are unable to rely upon your own judgement from using the camera; or

2. To find out about hidden or little used features of the camera.

I find the latter useful, but frankly, i couldn't care less whether Ming Thein does or does not like the A7RII. Do you?

I think there are others - it's interesting to see how someone responds to this or that, how it differs from one's own perspective, nits they discover, etc. Do I care if he likes the camera? No.
 
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