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Thread: IBIS on/off

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    IBIS on/off

    I have shot Minolta/Sony in body stabilization systems since the KM7D. This new IBIS on the a7rII just doesn't give a guy a break if you accidentally leave it on on a tripod with a lens that also has OSS like the 16-35 FE. It got me good today for me being forgetful .... I know I won't forget to turn it off again

    Funny, you could get away with being stupid before .... not now!
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    I have shot Minolta/Sony in body stabilization systems since the KM7D. This new IBIS on the a7rII just doesn't give a guy a break if you accidentally leave it on on a tripod with a lens that also has OSS like the 16-35 FE. It got me good today for me being forgetful .... I know I won't forget to turn it off again

    Funny, you could get away with being stupid before .... not now!
    Thanks for letting us know. Could you please show a comparison, 100% crop? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Also for Olympus IBIS it is advised to switch it off when using a tripod.
    Sorry Jim for your mishap, but I'm curious about what you found in your files.
    Like K-H, I too hope you can share some samples.

    TIA

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Guy's you don't need 100% crops they were a complete focus FUBAR. Looked like it was shot through the bottom of a dirty coke bottle..... I trashed the images when I saw them. There was no specific focus point detectable just a soft blur all over the image. Like someone shook the camera during the shot.

    Never saw this with the other bodies but then again none of the others had in lens stabilization and in body at the same time. I am sure that was what it was....... sorry I don't have examples for you both.

    One notable thing I remember.... on the shots that were focus nightmares I took the camera on tripod and picked it up and turned it 180 degrees from the previous shot and triggered off the IR remote then turned the whole assembly back for the next shot which usually came a bit later. These were oceanside sunrise shots at a inlet and the tripod was setup low. I would setup the sunrise shot take the shot then look back at the draw bridge ... when I saw the sun hitting it right I would turn the tripod around quickly set the shot and fire then turn back to the ocean. Maybe it was the still to rotated then fairly quick shot that was doing this as maybe the two stabilizations systems had not settled from the movement.... I don't know it is just a distinction I recall from my lost images. I am a user not a engineer but do look for distinctions when something goes wrong. You guys may know far more about this than I do.I just know I lost most every bridge shot and a few ocean ones.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Thanks Jim. Now you really make me curious enough to find out for myself.
    Indeed the Sony help guide advises to switch off SteadyShot, i.e. IBIS, on a tripod, as it can lead to all kinds of malfunction (according to the help guide). However, the lens OSS is fully integrated with the camera's SteadyShot and should not be a cause for concern.

    If IIRC, it also points out that IBIS doesn't work right after the camera is switched on, or if you fire the shutter without stopping briefly halfway down the shutter button motion.

    Of course, for exposures longer than 1/1000 s one should use either the EFCS or the silent shutter. They behave very similar in that range. For exposures shorter than 1/1000 s one should use the mechanical shutter to avoid uneven exposures, according to Jim Kasson.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    On the same thought I was using a IR remote shutter release as well. He seems no half shutter response....
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    On the same thought I was using a IR remote shutter release as well. He seems no half shutter response....
    Thanks Jim. I agree, for your situation IBIS Off is the way to go!
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 9th September 2015 at 16:34.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Yeah I knew better but had never seen such a drastic focus before but then again I never has a OSS lens in use on a ibis body. I won't forget again

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Can you map your Ibis on/off to any of the buttons?
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Can you map your Ibis on/off to any of the buttons?

    Great idea. Though not necessary for the FE 90/2.8 MACRO OSS lens that has an On/Off switch. That switch also switches On and Off the Camera's SteadyShot which is Sony's name for IBIS.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Great idea. Though not necessary for the FE 90/2.8 MACRO OSS lens that has an On/Off switch. That switch also switches On and Off the Camera's SteadyShot which is Sony's name for IBIS.
    Do you turn it off completely with the a7rII or just when its on a tripod?
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    Can you map your Ibis on/off to any of the buttons?
    I am not near my camera but I am pretty sure you can as I have the ibis focal length assigned to a customizable button so I can use my various rangefinder lenses without diving into the menu on every lens change.

    Logic would say to me that if I can assign the ibis focal length settings that on off can also be assigned. I'll check for sure when I get home.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    at what point does solid hand holding, like propped against a wall or post, become like a tripod in this regard?

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    at what point does solid hand holding, like propped against a wall or post, become like a tripod in this regard?
    Surely, that depends on the hands holding the camera?

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Do you turn it off completely with the a7rII or just when its on a tripod?
    No, no.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    I'm a little lost here. With a OSS lens is there a on//off setting in the menu for that alone.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm a little lost here. With a OSS lens is there a on//off setting in the menu for that alone.
    Thanks Guy. That depends on the lens.

    If the OSS lens - I have the FE 90/2.8 OSS - has an On/Off switch then the switch on the lens either enables or disables SteadyShot and OSS. In that case the menu On/Off option is greyed out and is non operative.

    But, after the switch on the lens is set to On then one can change the SteadyShot setting in the menu from Auto to Manual and mess with the focal length setting that one wishes to set for that lens for use in SteadyShot. That's how I messed up the camera for taking the image of the Praying Mantis killing the Hummingbird. I'll not make that a habit though. In that case I was just curious what the camera would do. Oh, I did that hours before that unfortunste occurance and before my eyes were dilated for a routine exam. What I should have done is to put the camera back into a correctly working state before I put it down and went my other ways.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 10th September 2015 at 09:02.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    If I put a lens with a switch (70-200) on my A7rII and press the steady shot on/off (I have it on a custom button), I get the message: "Invalid with this lens. If the lens has a SteadyShot switch, perform the operation from the lens." If the lens does not have a switch on the lens (but has OSS or not), then I can turn it on or off by pressing the SteadyShot item.

    I have not tested this myself, because I have turned SteadyShot off when I put my camera on a tripod, but I have read reports by others that the SteadyShot does not engage when you are on a tripod, so it does not matter if you turn it off or not. When hand-holding, it engages on the half-press. I'm not sure what happens when using an IR remote, because I have not tested that. I have used a Trigger-Trap always to trigger mine on the tripod and have had zero blurry photos. I do manual focus when I'm on the tripod.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    I am not near my camera but I am pretty sure you can as I have the ibis focal length assigned to a customizable button so I can use my various rangefinder lenses without diving into the menu on every lens change.

    Logic would say to me that if I can assign the ibis focal length settings that on off can also be assigned. I'll check for sure when I get home.

    I have both the on/off Steady Shot and the Steady Shot focal length assigned to custom buttons. I use this all the time with Leica M and R lenses.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    If I put a lens with a switch (70-200) on my A7rII and press the steady shot on/off (I have it on a custom button), I get the message: "Invalid with this lens. If the lens has a SteadyShot switch, perform the operation from the lens." If the lens does not have a switch on the lens (but has OSS or not), then I can turn it on or off by pressing the SteadyShot item.

    I have not tested this myself, because I have turned SteadyShot off when I put my camera on a tripod, but I have read reports by others that the SteadyShot does not engage when you are on a tripod, so it does not matter if you turn it off or not. When hand-holding, it engages on the half-press. I'm not sure what happens when using an IR remote, because I have not tested that. I have used a Trigger-Trap always to trigger mine on the tripod and have had zero blurry photos. I do manual focus when I'm on the tripod.
    Thanks. Interesting. With regards to your second paragraph, I have used SteadyShot freehand and on a tripod with an adapted Leica lens. In either case I saw a steady non-jerking image in the EVF when manually focusing the lens. I guess, I have to check this situation out more carefully.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I have both the on/off Steady Shot and the Steady Shot focal length assigned to custom buttons. I use this all the time with Leica M and R lenses.
    Thanks. Which buttons did you assign to which functions? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks. Interesting. With regards to your second paragraph, I have used SteadyShot freehand and on a tripod with an adapted Leica lens. In either case I saw a steady non-jerking image in the EVF when manually focusing the lens. I guess, I have to check this situation out more carefully.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thanks. Which buttons did you assign to which functions? TIA.
    I have C1 set for magnify. I have C3 set for the SteadyShot focal length. The SteadyShot on/off is set to the down button on the wheel.

    I tested out the fact that SteadyShot engages on the half-press by using Guy's former Minolta 200 and focusing on some electrical wires that are about a half-block away. I can see the motion of my unsteadiness. When I half-press and SteadyShot engages, I can see the difference as the motion steadies.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I have C1 set for magnify. I have C3 set for the SteadyShot focal length. The SteadyShot on/off is set to the down button on the wheel.

    I tested out the fact that SteadyShot engages on the half-press by using Guy's former Minolta 200 and focusing on some electrical wires that are about a half-block away. I can see the motion of my unsteadiness. When I half-press and SteadyShot engages, I can see the difference as the motion steadies.

    Many thanks Cindy. Your approach seems excellent to me. So far I have only set C4/trash can to toggle on and off a short info display of a menu item.

    I particularly like your setting: "The SteadyShot on/off is set to the down button on the wheel." That's pure genius! Thanks. So far, I hadn't managed to get anything to be useful on that down button. I certainly will use your setting for that button.

    Right now magnification is still on my C2 button. I have to experiment whether for my hands it's better to have that on C1.

    I will have to see how your setting of C3 will work for me.

    In any case, I agree, it's very easy to detect if SteadyShot works properly. If it does, the image in the EVF stabilizes beautifully. The opposite is also easy to detect.

    Thanks again for your excellent advice. Much appreciated.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Many thanks Cindy. Your approach seems excellent to me. So far I have only set C4/trash can to toggle on and off a short info display of a menu item.

    I particularly like your setting: "The SteadyShot on/off is set to the down button on the wheel." That's pure genius! Thanks. So far, I hadn't managed to get anything to be useful on that down button. I certainly will use your setting for that button.

    Right now magnification is still on my C2 button. I have to experiment whether for my hands it's better to have that on C1.

    I will have to see how your setting of C3 will work for me.

    In any case, I agree, it's very easy to detect if SteadyShot works properly. If it does, the image in the EVF stabilizes beautifully. The opposite is also easy to detect.

    Thanks again for your excellent advice. Much appreciated.
    You are welcome. One more thing, on the C1 and focus button (AF/MF), I mounted Stainless steel buttons from rluther.com. I used to make my own button extensions with Sugru, and that works well, too. The Stainless steel button on the magnify button helps me to find it without taking my eyes away from the viewfinder. If anyone is interested in Stainless steel buttons, the part number is 4SB-007 for 2 large and 2 small. They are pricey, but worth it. I have them on both my A7rII and A7II full spectrum.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    You are welcome. One more thing, on the C1 and focus button (AF/MF), I mounted Stainless steel buttons from rluther.com. I used to make my own button extensions with Sugru, and that works well, too. The Stainless steel button on the magnify button helps me to find it without taking my eyes away from the viewfinder. If anyone is interested in Stainless steel buttons, the part number is 4SB-007 for 2 large and 2 small. They are pricey, but worth it. I have them on both my A7rII and A7II full spectrum.

    Thanks Cindy. That's another great idea I will explore as my finger tips are not as sensitive to touch anymore as they once were.

    My pointing finger has also troubles with distinguishing the front wheel from the rough rubbery parts in its neighborhood. But I am getting better at that. I wonder though how to improve that issue.

    Thanks again.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Crap I ordered the buttons. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by guy mancuso View Post
    crap i ordered the buttons. Lol
    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Cindy. That's another great idea I will explore as my finger tips are not as sensitive to touch anymore as they once were.

    My pointing finger has also troubles with distinguishing the front wheel from the rough rubbery parts in its neighborhood. But I am getting better at that. I wonder though how to improve that issue.

    Thanks again.
    I don't have any solution for that one.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Crap I ordered the buttons. LOL
    Me too. Just ordered two sets. One for A7r, one for A7r2.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    I just got the A7RII, but with my Sony A900 with IBIS, and my Nikon D800E using VC lenses, I have been able to use a monopod and leave VC "ON" with good results. Anyone know if you can use a monopod with the A7RII and leave Steady Shot "ON"? I know I can test it, but I thought someone may have already tried it. I dislike tripods, but love monopod shooting!
    Thanks
    Dave

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Cindy, Some great ideas and recomendations that I for one will surely use........ thanks!


    Guy with the 16-35 for example there is no on/off switch for the OSS on lens so I assume the a7rII shuts it off and uses its own IBIS for stabilization in auto. All my other Minolta/Sony cameras could be used with stabilization on a tripod and I never saw a problem even though the owners manual said to turn it off when on a tripod. This a7rII when used with the IR remote and using auto focus while on a tripod if left alone and slowly composing the shot then taking it worked ok. But quickly grab the camera tripod assembly and turn it 180 degrees and quickly fire off a shot at something behind you and the images are without a focus point anywhere and look as if the camera was shaking violently during the shot. This is the only distinction I can see as most of the bridge shots were trash and most of the slow steady oceanfront shots looked great.

    IT IS NOT THE CAMERA'S FAULT in any way as the owners manual is very specific about this ... IT WAS MY LAZY ARSE's FAULT I just know not to be lazy again as it will punish me for my stupidity


    Just ordered a set of buttons
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Dave I have never used my a7rII on a monopod but my guess would be steady shot on because with a monopod usually there is still some movement.

    To be honest, I am thinking with OEM glass to just use handhold from now on as the IBIS and higher iso performance is so good. I have been a die in the wool tripod user for scenics up to now. I will surely still use a tripod for my Zeiss CG rangefinder glass but the FE glass may just go tripodless I will have to experiment more with this before I make a final decision but yesterday got me thinking.....

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Frankly, so far I have not noticed any problems with leaving IBIS On even when on a tripod. I have to have a closer look at that.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Also for Olympus IBIS it is advised to switch it off when using a tripod. ...
    Not just advised. With lenses at the extremes of the lens range, it's required. The ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5 on the E-M1 when fitted to a tripod and set to anything shorter than about 15mm produces blurry results with IS on. Turn IS off and it produces clear, sharp images.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by gurtch View Post
    I just got the A7RII, but with my Sony A900 with IBIS, and my Nikon D800E using VC lenses, I have been able to use a monopod and leave VC "ON" with good results. Anyone know if you can use a monopod with the A7RII and leave Steady Shot "ON"? I know I can test it, but I thought someone may have already tried it. I dislike tripods, but love monopod shooting!
    Thanks
    Dave
    Dave, Michael Reichmann on Luminous Landscape has an article about using monopod and gamble head with long zoom on with an A7II. He talks about manually setting the focal length etc. which suggests that the IBIS was switched on an functioning.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    I would leave IBIS on with a monopod.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    at what point does solid hand holding, like propped against a wall or post, become like a tripod in this regard?
    I think no matter how well you prop yourself against something you would be close to a good tripod and need to disable steady shot. The sensels are microscopic-smaller than a red blood cell. Doesn't take much motion to smear data into adjacent sensels.
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Thing is Wayne we are finding out even on a tripod with IBIS on it has no ill effects . I tested it as well as Mike and we are seeing no difference . My gut feeling is once IBIS senses no movement it just goes to rest.

    Our tests are in the A7rII Batis 25, 85 and 35 1.4 thread

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/558...tem-tests.html
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    wayne
    think i'm confused about your point...

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    I think I get it now, on the 90 mac the switch on the lens turns off or on the cameras ibis. With both being "on" doesn't matter. When on tripod turn lens sw off. Sorry but this system is new to me.
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thing is Wayne we are finding out even on a tripod with IBIS on it has no ill effects . I tested it as well as Mike and we are seeing no difference . My gut feeling is once IBIS senses no movement it just goes to rest.

    Our tests are in the A7rII Batis 25, 85 and 35 1.4 thread

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/558...tem-tests.html
    Guy, Just a point to consider....... the 35 f1.4 and the 25 Batis are non-optically stabilized lenses ..... only the 85 Batis has image stabilization (OIS) but not defined as Sony OSS in it's nomenclature and could very well be a Cosina manufactured lens by recent web information about who warrants it in Japan.

    Thus 2/3 of your testing had only the IBIS system of the a7rII involved without a in-lens stabilization system as well...... the 85mm could have a completely different stabilization (than say the 16-35 OSS or other Sony lenses with OSS) or a improved shutoff when connected to a IBIS body which the older Sony OSS lenses may not have as they were developed prior to bodies with IBIS. I am no engineer or scientist but your test could be a apples to oranges type comparison to what I experienced the other day. I have not and probably will not do any further testing as that stuff is just not me and my time is limited when I am out at a location. I get B slapped once and learn from it and take steps not to be B slapped by the same thing again I know how to avoid this and will..........

    As I have stated before all my other bodies with stabilization have only used unstabilized glass and I have never had a single issue with leaving the stabilization on on a tripod. The other day I had a OSS lens on a IBIS body with the stabilization system on auto and when I picked up the tripod/camera combo lifted it/ turned it 180 degrees/ quickly framed and shot using a IR remote I lost most of those shots without any definable location for the AF point definable as the image was so blurred. I do remember that the lights under the bridge and across it showed a diagonal movement in a 7:30 to 1:30 direction FWIW and the exposure was .5 a sec or longer for those bridge shots and the sunrise shots were higher shutter speeds as I was shooting in A mode. When I reposition the tripod back out to the east and took a longer period from moving to actually taking the shot the shots came out fine.

    Lesson learned for me at least........ don't be lazy with this system and turn the friggin IBIS off when on a tripod as the manual states because it has bit me once Very easy and quick to accomplish now with the down button assigned to IBIS on/off a Cindy suggested: thanks Cindy!
    Last edited by Jim DE; 11th September 2015 at 00:03.
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  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IBIS on/off

    My test was done with the 85 Batis but I want to try my Minolta 200mm 2.8 and see how that does. Maybe today I'll get to it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IBIS on/off

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    My test was done with the 85 Batis but I want to try my Minolta 200mm 2.8 and see how that does. Maybe today I'll get to it.

    To really test out what I posted the Minolta won't do it..... it too does not have Sony in lens OSS....... so it would only test the IBIS not IBIS w/a Sony FE OSS (Pre IBIS designed) lens attached. Apples and oranges again as I see it......


    To actually test what happened to me one needs to recreate the individual components and variables. That would be a 16-35 FE( I would guess the 24-70 FE and 70-200FE which are both pre IBIS designed lenses could also exhibit the same results as the 16-35 FE), a7rII with IBIS on and in auto, on a tripod, then rotate the assembly 180 degrees, frame and fire with a shutter speed lower than .5 sec at f7.2 and 100 iso with a remote IR release. I assure you you will turn your IBIS off when on a tripod after that test with it's very low keeper rate. Oh and the tripod was on solid jetty granite rocks inside a inlet during slack tide so it wasn't moving either.

    Here was a successful east bound shot from this location just before I lost the next shot 180 degrees facing west to the draw bridge.... as you can see it was very calm with water and wind. It was shot with the same variables except shutter speed because I was using A mode for both and the shutter speed varied to exposure metering needs. Typically on incoming tide that tower on the north side is overwashed with crashing waves.


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