Where does an 800 lb gorilla sit in a room with no mirrors?

[k-hawinkler]

+1!

I am having a blast with my A7r/2 cameras.
Now if only those Batis lenses were more readily available ... :grin:

 

[f/otographer]

+1

Some of the posters lost any semblence of respect by spewing utter crap and summarily dismissing photos taken with Sony cams.

I agree with your point. I think the OP's post is silly.

Sorry, I'm finding it hard to reconcile these.

 

[f/otographer]

I'm surprised that nobody has contradicted the original premise. Canon has released a serious mirrorless camera: the C500.

I'll be honest, I didn't even think of this camera when I posted my question. But granted, I was focusing more on still photography then video. Having said that, I believe you are correct. Video needs will most likely influence the cameras of the next decade much more than many stills only shooters would like. For instance, I have absolutely no use for 4k video in my body. But plenty of others do so it will likely be present in my next camera whether I want it or not.

 

[Vivek]

Sorry, I'm finding it hard to reconcile these.

Timing when any other sections other than this one on this site is high and dry makes this longwinded post with that title makes it silly.

I have no problems with dandrewk's concise summary.

 

[f/otographer]

Timing when any other sections other than this one on this site is high and dry makes this longwinded post with that title makes it silly.

Funny, you seem to have no problem expressing your opinion in this silly post. Which makes you either inconsiderate or just a troll. And if you feel it to be longwinded then you contradict yourself every time you post here.

 

[Vivek]

 

[Jack]

f/otographer -- easy -- consider this a reminder we like to keep it friendly here. Users that have generated over 10,000 posts here 1) have personalities already understood by most regulars and 2) through their participation have earned some latitude beyond that of newer posters.

 

[f/otographer]

f/otographer -- easy -- consider this a reminder we like to keep it friendly here. Users that have generated over 10,000 posts here 1) have personalities already understood by most regulars and 2) through their participation have earned some latitude beyond that of newer posters.

Im sorry Jack, I don't believe I was being unfriendly. Just pointing out what truly seems to be trollish behavior. And I was not aware that everyone is not treated equally on this site. If 10,000 posts gives you the right to be an *** then I have no further use posting here.

Consider this then my goodbye. I find this very unfortunate as I was just about to start a post asking everyone who their top 3 favorite photographers are and why. I was really looking forward to starting some more photo centric threads here as per Hulyss's suggestion. Thanks for pointing out that it would be a waste of my time.

For everyone who responded with posts to this thread, thank you, I found them very informative. And a big thank you to all the Sony shooters for the incredible images posted here. You have inspired me more times then I can count. It truly has been a pleasure.

Abyssinia.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think you may have misunderstood Jacks comments. But here is the issue for a lot of Sony owners and I'll be honest sometimes I feel the same way. Not directed at anyone in particular but serious I know I'm getting extremely tired of being told I bought a toy or a consumer point and shoot piece of crap. Not saying you said that but this resentment for being told how much of a idiot we all are it gets disheartening . I'm not saying it's happening here per say but we seem to have a lot of resentment from Canon/Nikon owners over the web that go the extra mile to knock Sony back to the film days. If you get my drift. I actually got a couple PMs on this thread. Honestly a lot of us spent a damn good chunk of change for the A7rII and I personally had to pull a lot of rabbits out of the hat to get one. It's just a little upsetting for me sometimes with all my experience to be told I'm a idiot to buy Sony. I'm extremely thicked skin but not everyone else is. I'm part owner here and as a admin I'm very careful what I say not that everyone else should but honestly this Sony hatred does even get under my skin sometimes. We actually have done pretty good here on this thread, but I know Jack very well and both of us have a very keen sense of what could happen next. We try to avoid those wars before they happen. That's part of the GetDPI success

We get a lot of members coming from other forums with a diffrent set of rules or more likely no rules and we just like to stay on top that.

 

[mjr]

Haha, I love the internet, full of such well balanced views and reasonable responses!

The original post is a bemoaning the fact that a specific manufacturer is not making the camera you want to buy but another is, honestly, we could have the same discussion about almost any product from any manufacturer, you just have to get on with it and either buy the available product, as you have or don't bother.

For every mirrorless fanboy, there will be a DSLR fanboy proclaiming that if Canon remove resources from developing new lenses, new sensors and new bodies to get heavily in to mirrorless, they will complain and be off, can't please everyone! I for one have absolutely zero idea of what Canon, Nikon or anyone else are working on, I am pretty sure that these product developments are held pretty close, what's the point in speculating about what they are or aren't doing when we don't know, unless of course you have links with Canon R&D in which case, maybe you should keep quiet anyway?

What I find about Sony owners currently is the overt need to declare that they have the best and that anything before is on its way out, I don't know if that's a lack of confidence and the need to be assured by others but it just seems unnecessary for something like a camera. There are millions of people using everything from box brownies to the latest Phase XF and 380, there is no right answer. People can moan that some dismiss mirrorless as not being serious but there are many who are dismissing anything other than mirrorless, where is the balance people?? I don't care what any of you shoot, just buy what you like.

Have a nice day!

Mat

 

[Lucille]

What I find about Sony owners currently is the overt need to declare that they have the best and that anything before is on its way out, I don't know if that's a lack of confidence and the need to be assured by others but it just seems unnecessary for something like a camera.

Since I am a newbie, I am curious, how many on this forum are doing what you are claiming? I would like an example if you could.

 

[mjr]

Lucille

Welcome! As much as I'd like to point you to many posts I can't be bothered, as a newbie you may enjoy just reading through posts and deciding whether you agree with me or not, it's just my opinion as I always state.

Enjoy your stay here, it's great!

Mat

 

[dmward]

When I was young and starting as a commercial photographer I had Leica range finder. The studio had Nikon 35mm SLR, Hasselblad SLR, Rollie TLR, and view cameras (4x5, 5x7, 8x10). Each had a different "view finder". Each was used for its benefits and managed for its weaknesses. With a few exceptions the same film emulsions could be used in any of the cameras. Often, we would shoot the same subject with multiple cameras to give the customer different sized transparencies and/or negatives.

Now I have digital cameras. For years I used Canon, simply because I had Canon lenses and it was easier to buy the next body than it was to buy new lenses.

Over a period of about 18 months I transitioned from buying a Fuji XPro 1 for personal use. (Poor man's digital range finder) to a full kit of Fuji XT-1s and lenses. The motivation had nothing to do with view finders, it had to do with liking the smaller sized kit and realizing I was getting good images.

I got a Sony A7R to shoot architecture with my Canon TSE lenses. That led to getting a couple of lenses so I could carry one camera on projects rather than two. Over another 6 months I've now found that I like the Sony kit for general work because it simplifies my life. i.e. not needing two kits.

Does this all mean I think Sony is better than Canon or Fuji? No. It does fit my needs better than either. It has its limitations. But then again, I always had things I wished the Canon kit or Fuji kit could do better too.

In my view, the great benefit of digital is its ability to reduce the complexity of hardware, and make processing images so much easier and better in software than it was in a darkroom and retouchers studio.

As for 800 lb. gorillas, the history of business is littered with their graves. Northern Telecom, Lucent Technologies, Fore Systems, MCI/Worldcom, the Bell System, IBM PCs, Sun Microsystems, [Pick a steel company]. And the list could go on for pages.

My point is, we have to pick the tools that work for us. And, we have to respect that others may pick different tools. Vivian Meier used a TTL, Henri Cartier-Bresson used a Leica, the Navy photographer who shot the flag raising at Iwo Jima used a Speed Graphic. There are great photographs being made today with every kind of digital camera, including iPhones.

To paraphrase one of Bill Clinton's political advisors; "Its the PICTURE stupid!"

And now on to something productive.

 

[rockjon]

Where is Jorgen when you need him? oke:

IMO I believe you only really need three maybe four lenses to launch a new mount.
The Contax G proved this. 28/45/90. The Mamiya 6 and 7 also. While the Bronica 645RF was no raging success it did also launch with three.
Even the Fuji X mount didn't have many on launch. Anyone recall?

I think Fuji launched with 3 prime lenses at first which were the 18mm f2.0, 35mm f1.4 and the 60mm f2.4. The zooms for the Fuji X mount I think followed after the launch of the first 3 lenses.

 

[Lucille]

Lucille

Welcome! As much as I'd like to point you to many posts I can't be bothered, as a newbie you may enjoy just reading through posts and deciding whether you agree with me or not, it's just my opinion as I always state.

Enjoy your stay here, it's great!

Mat

Ok, hopefully I won't bother you in the future.

 

[pegelli]

What I find about Sony owners currently is the overt need to declare that they have the best and that anything before is on its way out, I don't know if that's a lack of confidence and the need to be assured by others but it just seems unnecessary for something like a camera. There are millions of people using everything from box brownies to the latest Phase XF and 380, there is no right answer. People can moan that some dismiss mirrorless as not being serious but there are many who are dismissing anything other than mirrorless, where is the balance people?? I don't care what any of you shoot, just buy what you like.

Mat, I agree fully on your second point "just buy what you like" but your first point "Sony owners have an overt need to declare they have the best" is not limited to Sony at all. There's even plenty posts in this thread that prove you wrong on the Sony owners (a large number of balanced opinions) and reading some other fora as well as meeting togs in the field tells me there's plenty Canon and Nikon shooters who are just as black as the kettle.

The only generalization I would make here is that generalizations are generally wrong

 

[Hulyss Bowman]

I start personally to have a BIG problem with gear centric forums. A forum is a good tool to make a community or, if gear centric, Clans. I do not like Clans. As for "Sony" shooters, I think we do not blame the shooters: We blame the brand and warn the shooter. Sony is Sony and have no interest in photography. They have interest in selling things and once it will be less milky, it will be trashed. They proved it in the past two weeks... History is History, brands are brands. So of course, many Sony features are super and very useful. There is no reason that other brands can't use or emulate those features, especially Canon/Nikon and soon Pentax. Yes, Pentax is coming with FF... pretty soon. Do not forget the power of Ricoh imaging !

 

[ptomsu]

I start personally to have a BIG problem with gear centric forums. A forum is a good tool to make a community or, if gear centric, Clans. I do not like Clans. As for "Sony" shooters, I think we do not blame the shooters: We blame the brand and warn the shooter. Sony is Sony and have no interest in photography. They have interest in selling things and once it will be less milky, it will be trashed. They proved it in the past two weeks... History is History, brands are brands. So of course, many Sony features are super and very useful. There is no reason that other brands can't use or emulate those features, especially Canon/Nikon and soon Pentax. Yes, Pentax is coming with FF... pretty soon. Do not forget the power of Ricoh imaging !

While I second most of what you say - especially when it comes to what C/N can doe when they feel the time is right - I am absolutely not with you WRT Pentax/Ricoh!

They have shown in the past that they do not follow up the right way, have a miserable sales structure at least here in Europe and I would rate them not any better than Sony WRT interest in photography.

 

[Jim DE]

Mat and HB, your points about Sony and Sony shooters might have merit from your perspectives but this is a Sony forum used by some Sony owners. If I was to go to other forums with other manufacturers (which I never even open one of them ... Ever) I am sure I would find similar owner loyalty issues. What I don't and can't understand is why do users of other brands enter a brand specific forum and try and tell them how to live or how they should act or feel towards other manufacturer's tools and their users. To me there is the real issue and reason why one group may have issue with others.

I have no idea if other Sony users go over to Canikon forums and throw stones at them for using what the do but if they do I see that as misdirected energy just like I see a Canikon owner doing the same on a Sony specific forum. What do Canikon owners think that their presence and tool selection makes them right and they have to go to the other forums and spread this word to the unbelievers? Sorry great photography has little to do with what is in the hands but far more on what is happening in the 12" behind the viewfinder. That is the word!

 

[pegelli]

I start personally to have a BIG problem with gear centric forums.

I understand a bit where you're coming from, since in the end it's about the pictures and not about the gear. But what I do not understand is when you have such a problems with gear centric fora why you bother reading them and even making the effort to put long posts in there. Life's too short to bother with that if it gives you a problem.