canon is so devoted to photography that it spent 8 billions for a surveillance camera company but does not show any interest in building a decent 50mm lenses which can take advantage of the high res sensors for example.
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Where does an 800 lb gorilla sit in a room with no mirrors?
- Thread starter f/otographer
- Start date
Okay, let's step back a bit and survey the landscape.
Here on the Sony forum, a member asks a question that implies there is something wrong with Canon (and by extension Nikon) because they have not seriously pursued mirror-less in the same manner that Sony has. By inference, that certainly could be translated into a declaration that mirror-less is somehow currently or potentially superior to existing DSLR technologies.
Following posts liken that "inaction" to the failure of other manufacturers to technologically keep up, leading to their summary demise.
Couple that with the attrition in the camera industry in general.
Sounds grim to me.
Actually, the issue isn't "Mirror-Less" … after all, Leica has been mirror-less for almost a century. In fact, the advent of SLRs wiped out a lot of mirror-less brands/models and almost sunk Leica.
The real difference has been the electrification of the entire photographic experience. That allowed SLR viewing without the mirror-box … thus also allowing for a smaller camera.
It should be called ESLR.
Some like that experience, some don't. Some are ambivalent about it and just work with what they have in hand whatever the camera may be.
At this point I'd like to offer a few thoughts in support of … "Continuity".
As a victim of "Lack of Continuity", I don't see it as a small issue. I personally bought into advanced technology from Kyocera (Contax). The revolutionary Contax 645 was the bees-knees; the AX 35mm film camera allowed AF with existing manual focus Zeiss lenses; Contax N Digital was the first full frame DSLR; Etc., … all sporting an array of class leading AF optics from Zeiss. Then it was over. A fortune in dead-end equipment. I had an even bigger fortune sunk into Leica R including the DMR. Then it also was gone. Then Sony A900 DSLR with yet another fortune in Zeiss AF optics abandoned for the A99 SLT electronic photographic experience … and now yet another foray into a new camera concept with yet another set of optics … WTF!
Canon and Nikon may not have set the drum beat all the time, and those that like relearning/mastering tools every few years may not have liked their pace … but there certainly IS a steady sense of continuity while providing tools that get the job done … often well beyond the abilities of the users themselves.
Had I not been an itchy-pants, got to have this or that, grass is greener over there, impatient techno-dog … I'd be a LOT richer, and with the wisdom finally obtained after decades of shooting both for money and fun, I am positive that my work would not have suffered one iota.
- Marc
Here on the Sony forum, a member asks a question that implies there is something wrong with Canon (and by extension Nikon) because they have not seriously pursued mirror-less in the same manner that Sony has. By inference, that certainly could be translated into a declaration that mirror-less is somehow currently or potentially superior to existing DSLR technologies.
Following posts liken that "inaction" to the failure of other manufacturers to technologically keep up, leading to their summary demise.
Couple that with the attrition in the camera industry in general.
Sounds grim to me.
Actually, the issue isn't "Mirror-Less" … after all, Leica has been mirror-less for almost a century. In fact, the advent of SLRs wiped out a lot of mirror-less brands/models and almost sunk Leica.
The real difference has been the electrification of the entire photographic experience. That allowed SLR viewing without the mirror-box … thus also allowing for a smaller camera.
It should be called ESLR.
Some like that experience, some don't. Some are ambivalent about it and just work with what they have in hand whatever the camera may be.
At this point I'd like to offer a few thoughts in support of … "Continuity".
As a victim of "Lack of Continuity", I don't see it as a small issue. I personally bought into advanced technology from Kyocera (Contax). The revolutionary Contax 645 was the bees-knees; the AX 35mm film camera allowed AF with existing manual focus Zeiss lenses; Contax N Digital was the first full frame DSLR; Etc., … all sporting an array of class leading AF optics from Zeiss. Then it was over. A fortune in dead-end equipment. I had an even bigger fortune sunk into Leica R including the DMR. Then it also was gone. Then Sony A900 DSLR with yet another fortune in Zeiss AF optics abandoned for the A99 SLT electronic photographic experience … and now yet another foray into a new camera concept with yet another set of optics … WTF!
Canon and Nikon may not have set the drum beat all the time, and those that like relearning/mastering tools every few years may not have liked their pace … but there certainly IS a steady sense of continuity while providing tools that get the job done … often well beyond the abilities of the users themselves.
Had I not been an itchy-pants, got to have this or that, grass is greener over there, impatient techno-dog … I'd be a LOT richer, and with the wisdom finally obtained after decades of shooting both for money and fun, I am positive that my work would not have suffered one iota.
- Marc
off topic but on trend for this thread in its current state
I use an A7r with a metabones/tse/macro or a cambo actus for still life and some landscape/interiors, I'm not a fan of anything apart from using cost effective tools to make high quality images that make clients happy and my comfort fund bigger.
I like the files I get from the Sony and will probably get a mkII when it does its first price drop but I have to say they (Sony)have a lot of work to do on in the hand usability and menu's, I hardly ever have to shoot moving things or people but I instantly go for my 5DIII if that's what I'm shooting as it's such an easy camera to use.
What I have noticed in the pro rental/sales places in London (the kind of places that quote prices ex VAT and are not on the high St) is that they now sell and rent a few Sony A series cameras alongside the phase/hassleblad and canon/Nikon, there is no Leica, M4/3, Pentax or Sony DSLR on their shelves so there is obviously a demand for their cameras in the professional arena (not weddings/social) but it's probably not in the way Sony envisaged.
As for the mirrorless question? Canon have their finger in plenty of pies and will probably have another tentative push into that area with a nearly but not quite camera (aren't all cameras never 100% perfect?) but I do wonder about Nikon who are beholden to another sensor manufacturer and have few other revenue streams, maybe they are waiting for a big surge in birdwatching?
I use an A7r with a metabones/tse/macro or a cambo actus for still life and some landscape/interiors, I'm not a fan of anything apart from using cost effective tools to make high quality images that make clients happy and my comfort fund bigger.
I like the files I get from the Sony and will probably get a mkII when it does its first price drop but I have to say they (Sony)have a lot of work to do on in the hand usability and menu's, I hardly ever have to shoot moving things or people but I instantly go for my 5DIII if that's what I'm shooting as it's such an easy camera to use.
What I have noticed in the pro rental/sales places in London (the kind of places that quote prices ex VAT and are not on the high St) is that they now sell and rent a few Sony A series cameras alongside the phase/hassleblad and canon/Nikon, there is no Leica, M4/3, Pentax or Sony DSLR on their shelves so there is obviously a demand for their cameras in the professional arena (not weddings/social) but it's probably not in the way Sony envisaged.
As for the mirrorless question? Canon have their finger in plenty of pies and will probably have another tentative push into that area with a nearly but not quite camera (aren't all cameras never 100% perfect?) but I do wonder about Nikon who are beholden to another sensor manufacturer and have few other revenue streams, maybe they are waiting for a big surge in birdwatching?
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
It is a metaphor. A simple forum section about photo, not gear centred, would solve my problem. Then I will not only share my pics because I shoot Nikon, I will share my pics because I shoot
I only hope other ppl would like it 
pegelli
Well-known member
it already exists, on GetDPIIt is a metaphor. A simple forum section about photo, not gear centred, would solve my problem. Then I will not only share my pics because I shoot Nikon, I will share my pics because I shoot
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Hulyss Bowman
Active member
Ok now make it as visible (important) as the gear centred sections and I'm ok
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
It kind of is. It's a problem anywhere you put it because it don't have a brand name in the title. Honestly it's up to members to make it popular. The more posts the more attention it gets. It's the same thing with most sites. It's not like we have not tired this in the past. We put these image forums up and there brand agnostic and they just don't fly. ART is a tough subject I guess for folks to sink there teeth in.Ok now make it as visible (important) as the gear centred sections and I'm ok
Most people on forums are hobbyists and there main goal is just go out and enjoy photography but more important have fun. I work my *** off everyday here to help people do that. That is my giving back to the community. Honestly I do a great job at it too. Yea ill pat my own back on that one because very few Pros do it for the love of the game not money. My signature actually means something
pegelli
Well-known member
Eagerly awaiting your contributionsOk now make it as visible (important) as the gear centred sections and I'm ok
. There's no magic spirit that certainly makes it more visible and important, only the members here can do that.I've been trying the same in the non-A7 threads in the Sony form, but with very mixed success
However I won't resign from the gear threads either. As long as it is a good discussion on pro's/con's and possibilities of different types of gear and brands there's nothing wrong with that. I hate bashing and uncritical fanboys, but usually my scroll wheel takes care of that quickly enough
ShooterSteve
New member
As much as I am as excited as anyone about the Sony A7R and R2 and S2 etc... DSLR cameras are not going anywhere. They are still the main force in professional photography and will be for a long time to come. I think what made the Sony such an instant hit was it's ability to work so well with Canon EOS lenses. It became an accessory to our Canon system - a fantastic situation. All my Canon TS-E, Zooms, 1.2 primes etc... it's like a dream come true.
I still love and use my Canon 5D bodies and will probably add the 5DSR next month. I'm still not comfortable shooting with the Sony A7R2 for some of my work. A lot of fashion guys went for the D800 and 810 for the medium format quality, and now the 5DSR, but I don't see anyone I know moving towards mirrorless for that work yet.
Did anyone see even one Sony system at the US Open sidelines over the last two weeks? I didn't. In as much as the 5DSR was not a big deal to us Sony owners, I think it was huge to Canon professionals. I'm sure an updated 5Dk3 is also on the way very soon.
Canon has been making the best pro gear for decades and just because Sony shows up with a better camera isn't changing history. When Sony brings trucks and tents to major sporting events with a staff of techs and loaner gear like Canon and Nikon do, they will join that club.
Should Canon consider mirrorless in the future? Sure. But is it important right now? I doubt it. I think they can take their time and slowly mature their mirrorless line by adding a lens or two every year.
At least that's the way I see it.
I still love and use my Canon 5D bodies and will probably add the 5DSR next month. I'm still not comfortable shooting with the Sony A7R2 for some of my work. A lot of fashion guys went for the D800 and 810 for the medium format quality, and now the 5DSR, but I don't see anyone I know moving towards mirrorless for that work yet.
Did anyone see even one Sony system at the US Open sidelines over the last two weeks? I didn't. In as much as the 5DSR was not a big deal to us Sony owners, I think it was huge to Canon professionals. I'm sure an updated 5Dk3 is also on the way very soon.
Canon has been making the best pro gear for decades and just because Sony shows up with a better camera isn't changing history. When Sony brings trucks and tents to major sporting events with a staff of techs and loaner gear like Canon and Nikon do, they will join that club.
Should Canon consider mirrorless in the future? Sure. But is it important right now? I doubt it. I think they can take their time and slowly mature their mirrorless line by adding a lens or two every year.
At least that's the way I see it.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Lol I know and trust me you do want this lens. I think in a few weeks production may start catching up to demand. If I see something I'll keep folks posted. I know a lot of dealers.
M
mjr
Guest
Marc is far more eloquent than I but has captured exactly what I was trying to say, there are posts in this thread which directly or indirectly state that mirrorless technology and evf is the future and that dslr's or ovf are dinosaurs compared with it, my point is always that there is no one size fits all, no need to justify your purchase, no need to mock anyone who likes using something different, they are just cameras.
Lucille, thanks for stating that you hope not to bother me in the future, what a relief! Honestly, it would be impossible for you to bother me, were you really expecting me to spend time putting together a list of posts when it's obvious that you are asking because you don't think there are any? It's entirely acceptable for you not to think the same as me, it doesn't matter! Maybe you can read Marc's post above, decide you agree or decide you don't.
Pegelli
Of course you are right, it's always the latest thing, the 645z was the savour of humanity, cheap, medium format, that produced some really good reactions in people, there are very few posts mentioning it now, I have no doubt there is such a lot of sony stuff purely because they are constantly churning out new products, people are very sensitive about their purchases, Sony owners as much as anyone else I accept that.
I loved the RX1, superb camera for when I was in Iraq and Afghanistan, great pictures and easy to hide so didn't get shot at. My first digital camera was a Canon 20d, that spent 2.5 years in the Antarctic with me and never let me down once, brilliant camera! I used a full D800/E setup for a couple of years and only sold it for the Leica, a huge backward step with no live view, no evf, miserable DR and it's a ccd sensor!! I love it more than all my other cameras put together. 100% of my income is from photography, I'm not for any particular camera, system or format, I just really dislike reading posts from people claiming this tech or that company is dead based on the choices they have made, it just doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, it doesn't matter, it's just a discussion.
Have a nice afternoon!
Mat
M
mjr
Guest
Ahh well I doubt I'm the first person on the internet to disappoint you Lucille, I also doubt I shall be the last! You can read this thread from the start and either see it or not, either way doesn't matter to me.
Mat
Mat
M
mjr
Guest
Hah, people who you don't agree with?! I'm sure you do! It's a forum Lucille, how boring if you agreed with everyone.
Enjoy your Sony, it's the future!
Mat
Enjoy your Sony, it's the future!
Mat
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Let's move on folks. I see we are getting a little unfriendly and just want to put some brakes on. Thanks and that's from all the admins
Opinions are just that opinions and don't always have to be backed up.
As I said earlier this is one of those threads that are on the edge of great discussion but could turn South very fast. Let's be aware of that. Thanks Guy
Opinions are just that opinions and don't always have to be backed up.
As I said earlier this is one of those threads that are on the edge of great discussion but could turn South very fast. Let's be aware of that. Thanks Guy