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Thread: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

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    Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    I'm questionning myself if i'll go to the new A7rII or if i stay with my A7R bodies.
    I've been working for the last year and half with a couple of sony A7R and many TS lenses(canon/contax/pentax) well i can see sometimes a litlle color cast around the corner, a bit of crosstalk when shifted too much, but i must be honest all this stay reasonable enough to me.

    But i also have a sony a6000 with a very similar density of pixel as teh A7RII, and then things are very different, colorcast come a lot quickier, crosstalk is also very worst, and i do encontour serious mazing problem that i don't have with the same lens and same shift on the A7R... so i guess all this depends on the pixel density/design and so my question for people using RII with large shift:
    Did any of you had any Mazing/crosstalk/colorcast probleme with this new body and large shift?

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    Smile Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    Hi Daf,
    I have also been wondering if I should upgrade to the A7RII as the majority of my work is tripod based using TS-E lenses and like yourself, I have a bit of a Motley Crue of lenses (Canon, Pentax 645, Hasselblad). Also, like yourself, I have ordered the Hcam Master and it should arrive in a couple of weeks..

    Are you able to give some examples of where you run into such issues? Some visual examples would be even better

    Once I receive the Hcam Master, I am interested in doing a comparison between the two cameras (there is a store here who is hiring the A7RII). People say that there is not much difference between the two cameras but with the examples I have seen online, I do see a difference, cannot quite place it exactly but there is something there..

    I am relatively new to all this but is there any way you can provide an example of what "crosstalk" is? Also, what is "mazing"?

    I have seen a fellow member by the name of "Torger" on the Medium Format Forum comment on "cross talk" quite a bit and I was under the impression that he seemed to think that it would be better on the newer A7RII backlit sensor..

    If you could provide me with a few more details, would be more than happy to incorporate testing this when I receive my Hcam Master and do a comparison between the two cameras..

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    The Ar72 has much lower (perhaps no) colour caste when compared to the A7r. I agree that the 24mp APSc sensors (I had the Nex 7) are particularly bad. I've used my 24mm Canon TSE and seen no signs, although I was lightpainting inside a dark building, but I can usually see colour shifts.

    I've also tested several RF lenses, most if not all have colour caste issues on the A7r (even the Voigtlander 15mm III has very slight issues) and can see nothing.

    I've started to put a database together, there also a link in the 1st post (which was updated a few days ago) to the images (at 50% res) which I took slanted on a sunny day to get good info in the corners.

    Create A7rII WA / RF lens database? - FM Forums

    Hope this helps..

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    http://www.pbase.com/mike_broomfield/image/161273877

    This shot had about the most shift of those I took last week although I didn't record it. The colours are true, ie the room and duct were painted green and the pulley cover was blue. I didn't have to make any colour balance adjustments to even up any odd things in the corners.

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    Quote Originally Posted by wallpaperviking View Post
    Hi Daf,
    I have also been wondering if I should upgrade to the A7RII as the majority of my work is tripod based using TS-E lenses and like yourself, I have a bit of a Motley Crue of lenses (Canon, Pentax 645, Hasselblad). Also, like yourself, I have ordered the Hcam Master and it should arrive in a couple of weeks..

    Are you able to give some examples of where you run into such issues? Some visual examples would be even better

    Once I receive the Hcam Master, I am interested in doing a comparison between the two cameras (there is a store here who is hiring the A7RII). People say that there is not much difference between the two cameras but with the examples I have seen online, I do see a difference, cannot quite place it exactly but there is something there..

    I am relatively new to all this but is there any way you can provide an example of what "crosstalk" is? Also, what is "mazing"?

    I have seen a fellow member by the name of "Torger" on the Medium Format Forum comment on "cross talk" quite a bit and I was under the impression that he seemed to think that it would be better on the newer A7RII backlit sensor..

    If you could provide me with a few more details, would be more than happy to incorporate testing this when I receive my Hcam Master and do a comparison between the two cameras..
    Crosstalk appears as a loss of saturation (mostly seen in sky/colored object), ihave no comparaison to show , but next time i go out with the camera i'll shoot you a "with/without shift" sky...

    mazing:
    Name:  Mazing.jpg
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    colorcast:
    Name:  colorcast.jpg
Views: 491
Size:  21.5 KB

    Both shots on the A6000 and for both, same lens, same shift/tilt on the A7R show almost no problem (only a very little colorcast, and no mazing)

    From answer here, looks like the new A7RII has probably even less problem than the version1 ... so i guess i'll buy one soon

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    Is the Sony A7RII better at dealing with these problems due to its new BSI sensor?

    Am just wondering if anyone knew whether Canon cameras ran into any of these issues with their own TS-E lenses, or is it just an issue with the original A7R sensor and adaptation of the Canon TS-E lenses?

    Thanks so much!

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    Anybody able to answer the previous post?

    Thanks in advance!

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    The A7r2 is really fundamentally different than all other A7 cameras, though it does share the thick coverglass, 1.9mm (compared to 1.1mm on a D810 and 1.2mm on 5D3)

    BSI was used to enable 4K video recording without overheating, and the pixel count was also chosen for 4K video reasons.

    But whatever the reasons, the sensor structure is very different, with very distinct files, and behavior. While the A7r2 does still induce a FC on various film lenses due to the coverglass, the colorshift issues are dramatically reduced, and because many wires are moved to the back ISO noise is reduced and with the more forward wells the extreme vignetting of the A7r 36mp sensor is gone.

    At least this is my current impression.

    However, no canon wide angle will do better on the A7r2 than a late Canon FF body, again because of the cover glass. Note that it can be easily swapped for thinner glass by Kolari, in which case Canon wides should be fantastic. But the Loxia 21/2.8 and Batis 25/2 both give very high performance with the stock camera, and other wides will come close to these, though Ming shows the sigma doing pretty well, in a recent side by side.

    I have not heard many complaints about mazing and crosstalk, but not everyone is picky about this: I did come across this post which complains about A7R2 performance in long exposure with some evidence of worse crosstalk:
    Poor dynamic range of A7R2 when doing long exposure (RAW files available for comparison) - Sony Alpha Full Frame Cameras - Sony Alpha Forum

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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    Thanks for the response!

    When you state this...

    "While the A7r2 does still induce a FC on various film lenses due to the coverglass, the colorshift issues are dramatically reduced"

    what is a FC? Sorry if that is a really dumb question

    With regards to the coverglass, I thought this was only an issue with rangefinder lenses?

    I would be mainly looking to use lenses with a larger image circle (Canon 24mm TS-E, Pentax 645 35mm and Hasselblad 50mm FLE).


    I have actually struggled to find many examples of the Canon TS-E lenses with the new A7RII.

    Anybody have any examples out there?

    Thanks in advance!

  10. #10
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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    FC = Field Curvature

    I've had a chance to use mine more over the last few months;
    17 TSE
    35 FD TS
    24 TSE
    24 TSE
    17 TSE
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Mike Broomfield
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  11. #11
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    Re: Large shift on A7RII, color cast? mazing? crosstalk?

    Hi,

    The differences in cover glass can possibly cause astigmatism bot not fields curvature.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by uhoh7 View Post
    The A7r2 is really fundamentally different than all other A7 cameras, though it does share the thick coverglass, 1.9mm (compared to 1.1mm on a D810 and 1.2mm on 5D3)

    BSI was used to enable 4K video recording without overheating, and the pixel count was also chosen for 4K video reasons.

    But whatever the reasons, the sensor structure is very different, with very distinct files, and behavior. While the A7r2 does still induce a FC on various film lenses due to the coverglass, the colorshift issues are dramatically reduced, and because many wires are moved to the back ISO noise is reduced and with the more forward wells the extreme vignetting of the A7r 36mp sensor is gone.

    At least this is my current impression.

    However, no canon wide angle will do better on the A7r2 than a late Canon FF body, again because of the cover glass. Note that it can be easily swapped for thinner glass by Kolari, in which case Canon wides should be fantastic. But the Loxia 21/2.8 and Batis 25/2 both give very high performance with the stock camera, and other wides will come close to these, though Ming shows the sigma doing pretty well, in a recent side by side.

    I have not heard many complaints about mazing and crosstalk, but not everyone is picky about this: I did come across this post which complains about A7R2 performance in long exposure with some evidence of worse crosstalk:
    Poor dynamic range of A7R2 when doing long exposure (RAW files available for comparison) - Sony Alpha Full Frame Cameras - Sony Alpha Forum

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