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Thread: Rx1r2

  1. #101
    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...with every round of these things I hear many of the same complaints iterated over, and over, and over again, generation after generation of latest hot camera.

    I'm truly tired of it all.
    When I find myself in that state of mind, I do something else for awhile. Preferably something which doesn't involve accessorizing or striving for perfection in any way, shape or form!

    RX1 is a ultra-premium showcase product and not priced to sell in vast quantities. This sort of practice is very common with Japanese companies: Lexus's LF-A automobile for instance, the old Technics SL1000 turntable and so on.

    My personal take on the new camera: Absolutely freaking amazing. But so are the A7 and RX100 that I already own.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If Sony is selling everything they make, why are there so many new Sony RX1r cameras available? Never mind A7, A7r, etc?

    Leica is the only camera company currently operating at its production capacity, and it is privately held... no public shareholders... with the highest profits currently in the industry. They're not really going for market share; they're expanding and opening markets for Leica products with new products. Not the same thing at all. They're playing a smart game, where Sony is just replacing their own products, over and over again, on too short a cycle.

    This is why the Sony strategy ultimately fails. Most buyers don't want to be told ten months later that their state of the art joy is now yesterday's junk. I'm sure I don't. And to appeal to repurchasers enough to get them to open their wallets, Sony has to do something wackily over the top on every cycle with no real time for proper development.

    They've seemingly really sold you and many others on this damaged product strategy. Sony's profitability has been in the toilet for several years. How long do you think they can keep it up at this rate?

    G
    I could argue this till the cows come home but you even admitted higher profit margins. Your making a case for Leica that still rides on market share. It just happens to be in the luxury market. If they are not in it for profit than explain to me why most of there thrust is in China with special edition stuff. There after money my friend. One stockholder was rich enough to buy it and held it privately. The guy is a billionaire in other areas That relate to Leica cameras. He did not get rich not going after a market he can't tap. I've been to Leica in Germany and they want to sustain there business and grow. Sony and Leica are just playing in different markets.

    Anyway this is freaking pointless. I'm not even going to bother. I'm not snowed by Sony as you think. I'll flip on a dime if I see greener pastures. But no one is doing anything to grow there technology. No one is building there own sensors either except Canon at least on the big scale.

    Anyway have a great weekend
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Isn't it the old adage that "it is the camera you have with you that get's the shot?".

    I often pick up my Ricoh GR in preference to my A7 series because it is so small and as a result have some satisfying (to me, at least) results. Likewise, looking back through my portfolio I have some great RX1 shots because it was a no-brainer to pop it into my backpack on the way to work.

    Just my two cents.
    Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

    But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

    I can't see it.

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I could argue this till the cows come home but you even admitted higher profit margins. Your making a case for Leica that still rides on market share. It just happens to be in the luxury market. If they are not in it for profit than explain to me why most of there thrust is in China with special edition stuff. There after money my friend. One stockholder was rich enough to buy it and held it privately. The guy is a billionaire in other areas That relate to Leica cameras. He did not get rich not going after a market he can't tap. I've been to Leica in Germany and they want to sustain there business and grow. Sony and Leica are just playing in different markets.

    Anyway this is freaking pointless. I'm not even going to bother. I'm not snowed by Sony as you think. I'll flip on a dime if I see greener pastures. But no one is doing anything to grow there technology. No one is building there own sensors either except Canon at least on the big scale.

    Anyway have a great weekend
    Profits are not profit margins.
    Markets are not market share.

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Well it's definitely not on my "must have" list. But I'm pretty sure I'll talk myself into one in about a year and a half...but I'll be buying used

    Jordan
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Lately I've become convinced that what the world (at least the part of the world that has time to dawdle over such things) really craves is story: That the stuff we surround ourselves with has some deeper meaning.

    It's not really the Japanese style to call attention to the efforts of individual staff members, but nevertheless you can sometimes find a few snippets, this one dating back to the original RX1 of 2012:

    http://www.sony.net/Fun/design/activ...ct/dsn/01.html
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Lovely photo. What about this photo will be improved by your new RX1r II?

    G
    I always find comments like this intriguing.

    Many of my favorite images would likely not be improved if I imagined having different gear after the fact. All I can do at this point is overlay current specs onto an image I visualized, shot, processed and printed while using a specific camera and lens and software and printer all of which I was familiar with at the time.

    Any image I am proud of that I took with older gear was made knowing the strengths and limitations of that gear. With only a few exception, it was probably the best image I could make.

    In fact, plenty of the images I made with my old film cameras or Olympus E-1 or Leica M9 or micro4/3's gear would be impossible for me to reproduce at all now.

    That does not mean I want to go back to that gear. Far from it.

    The new Rx1r2 has so many upgrades to my RX1 that I know, without doubt, it would expand the shooting envelope greatly for me. Better AF, by itself, would guarantee that.

    Would any of my prior RX1 photos be suddenly better? Who knows.

    Would I now be able to get a lot of images I could not get at all before?

    Absolutely.

    -Bill

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    ...
    Would I now be able to get a lot of images I could not get at all before?
    Absolutely.
    Why are you so sure of that?

    I like new equipment with expanded capabilities, but when I look at my digital gear, I would say quite frankly that no matter how much better the photos they make now might be compared to what I could achieve with the gear I had in 2007, it hasn't changed the quality of my photos or my photo opportunities by one iota.

    The big thing that's changed is how much I enjoy making the photos plus how much my eyes have changed over the past decade. The cameras has been the smallest part of it.

    G

  9. #109
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

    But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

    I can't see it.

    G


    You don't need to see it, just I do, as the purchase is for me and not you.
    the HepKitty
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If Sony is selling everything they make, why are there so many new Sony RX1r cameras available? Never mind A7, A7r, etc?

    Leica is the only camera company currently operating at its production capacity, and it is privately held... no public shareholders... with the highest profits currently in the industry. They're not really going for market share; they're expanding and opening markets for Leica products with new products. Not the same thing at all. They're playing a smart game, where Sony is just replacing their own products, over and over again, on too short a cycle.

    This is why the Sony strategy ultimately fails. Most buyers don't want to be told ten months later that their state of the art joy is now yesterday's junk. I'm sure I don't. And to appeal to repurchasers enough to get them to open their wallets, Sony has to do something wackily over the top on every cycle with no real time for proper development.

    They've seemingly really sold you and many others on this damaged product strategy. Sony's profitability has been in the toilet for several years. How long do you think they can keep it up at this rate?

    G
    Different strokes for different folks. Simple as that.

    You're entitled to your opinion and it could be true for you. We all have different needs for instance I'd never buy a Leica Q on account that it's built around a 28mm lens and it's more than I'd be comfortable with spending on a camera such as that. Plenty of people love it though and I've handled it so I can understand why some do even when it's not for me. I can say the same about the RX1 or RX1m2... neither of which I own and probably don't plan on owning.

    I for one would never owna Leica X anything or a Leica T for reasons that if I wanted a cropped sensor I'd buy a Fuji X100, X mount, or a Micro 4/3 camera. Just my opinion though. Doesn't mean you're wrong for loving your Leica X but I found that they weren't for me.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Why are you so sure of that?

    G
    Better AF all by its lonesome.

    Plus, many upgrades of many cameras have shown me that when a large number of items is incrementally improved it inevitably expands the shooting window in new and unpredictable ways.

    But, in this case, better AF all by itself guarantees it.

    -Bill

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    You don't need to see it, just I do, as the purchase is for me and not you.

    Spot on.

    Also, just give me a better tool and I will figure out to do with it what I couldn't do before.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    You don't need to see it, just I do, as the purchase is for me and not you.
    For sure. But I was interested in discussing the why and what you see, in hopes of understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Spot on.

    Also, just give me a better tool and I will figure out to do with it what I couldn't do before.
    What was your last camera upgrade? And what did it allow you to figure out how to do that you couldn't do before?

    I am actually really curious about these notions.

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

    But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

    I can't see it.

    G
    I would say three things are worth an upgrade (even though I no longer own a RX1):

    - inbuilt EVF - the external one works but completely spoils the ergonomics of the RX1/R
    - articulating screen - very useful feature which is at last recognised as an essential feature on a professional digital camera;
    - additional pixels for cropping and the additional dynamic range- useful for all sorts of situations.

    Now, I was willing to compromise on 2 & 3 and put an order in for a Leica Q. But now the RX1R2 is out I no longer need to do so.

    LouisB
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Why are you so sure of that?

    I like new equipment with expanded capabilities, but when I look at my digital gear, I would say quite frankly that no matter how much better the photos they make now might be compared to what I could achieve with the gear I had in 2007, it hasn't changed the quality of my photos or my photo opportunities by one iota.

    The big thing that's changed is how much I enjoy making the photos plus how much my eyes have changed over the past decade. The cameras has been the smallest part of it.

    G
    My photo opportunities have changed radically since 2007 due to new gear.

    In fact, they have changed within the last year. A lot.

    Indeed, even within the past couple of months as the A7r2 opened new doors.

    I expect another big shift in my photo opportunities when my A7s2 arrives.

    -Bill

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    Better AF all by its lonesome.

    Plus, many upgrades of many cameras have shown me that when a large number of items is incrementally improved it inevitably expands the shooting window in new and unpredictable ways.

    But, in this case, better AF all by itself guarantees it.
    That's very interesting that "better AF" is such a factor. When you say "better", what do you mean? Faster? More accurate? More consistent? I focus manually about 75% of the time ... What am I missing?

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    My photo opportunities have changed radically since 2007 due to new gear.
    In fact, they have changed within the last year. A lot.
    Indeed, even within the past couple of months as the A7r2 opened new doors.
    I expect another big shift in my photo opportunities when my A7s2 arrives.
    Can you speak in more specific terms about what those changes were with the A7r II?

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    That's very interesting that "better AF" is such a factor. When you say "better", what do you mean? Faster? More accurate? More consistent? I focus manually about 75% of the time ... What am I missing?

    G
    Eye AF for example.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    No worries, we just reached Godfrey's usual stress level whenever people get carryed away by a new toy.
    One needs somebody who cools down consumers to relativize their wettest dreams. It wan't help though

    I would probably buy this camera and the A7rII as well and oh not to forget the new A7s and all the new Sony's, Milvius's, Otus's and Batis's
    lenses if money was growing on my back but unfortunatly it isn't. I congratulate everybody who does.
    Leica isn't in my dreams, thank god.

    Pricewise Sony is upgrading itself direction Leica, justifyed by the fact that they are a lot more innovating as the rest.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Eye AF for example.
    What is eye AF and why is it something I'm missing?

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

    But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

    I can't see it.

    G
    The biggest complaints I ever saw about the RX1 were that the AF was not up to par and that there was no integrated viewfinder. Just having those two points addressed likely pushes the camera across a usability threshold for many people, myself included. Better high ISO performance is always a good thing. The boost in megapixels seems more of a burden than a benefit in many ways, but not such a bad burden to have, increasing the cropping possibilities from a one-lens camera that may be carried by itself.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    That's very interesting that "better AF" is such a factor. When you say "better", what do you mean? Faster? More accurate? More consistent? I focus manually about 75% of the time ... What am I missing?

    G
    AF that actually freaking works. All of it are major improvements with the A7rII. You may want to read up on it from Sonys documentation as its really even a big improvement over the A7II. It completely smokes the A7 and A7r in just about every category. This are not incremental either . its big improvements in real world. Its faster more accurate more consistent and the AF is there when you want it or not. Big difference than the A7, A7r. The list goes on.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    What is eye AF and why is it something I'm missing?

    G

    Google search is your friend. Sony Eye AF
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Runkel View Post
    The biggest complaints I ever saw about the RX1 were that the AF was not up to par and that there was no integrated viewfinder. Just having those two points addressed likely pushes the camera across a usability threshold for many people, myself included. Better high ISO performance is always a good thing. The boost in megapixels seems more of a burden than a benefit in many ways, but not such a bad burden to have, increasing the cropping possibilities from a one-lens camera that may be carried by itself.
    Its sporting the same package in AF dept as the A7rII. These are huge improvements and it looks to be in this body as well.


    AF eye tracking is just what it sounds like it pin points a eye and tracks it pretty much across the whole frame. If the eye is not seen it goes right into a more general focusing area and continually tracks. The EYE AF is pretty darn cool and it does work very well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Google search is your friend. Sony Eye AF
    Agree this takes some homework.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post


    Pricewise Sony is upgrading itself direction Leica, justifyed by the fact that they are a lot more innovating as the rest.
    Yup.

    Phoblo dude (an online review) reports they are into special leather cases as well.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    No worries, we just reached Godfrey's usual stress level whenever people get carryed away by a new toy.
    One needs somebody who cools down consumers to relativize their wettest dreams. It won't help though ...
    I spent the grand amount of $650 for a new Polaroid SX-70 with rebuilt electronics and calibrated for 600 film a few weeks ago. Called the SLR670a by MiNT. It's making beautiful photographs for me, clearly my best performing Polaroid, and I'm very enthused about what I can do with it. But of course it's no umpteen bazigapixel AF Zeiss-lensed whirligig that can make movies and 40x60 inch prints without breathing hard. It just makes beautiful little photographs when I point it in the right direction and press the button at the right time...

    I'm sure no one here cares at all, but as a photographer's tool it has the spontaneity and connection between me and my subjects that I hope the Sony WunderMachin gives to all the aspiring Sonyista.

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I spent the grand amount of $650 for a new Polaroid SX-70 with rebuilt electronics and calibrated for 600 film a few weeks ago. Called the SLR670a by MiNT. It's making beautiful photographs for me, clearly my best performing Polaroid, and I'm very enthused about what I can do with it. But of course it's no umpteen bazigapixel AF Zeiss-lensed whirligig that can make movies and 40x60 inch prints without breathing hard. It just makes beautiful little photographs when I point it in the right direction and press the button at the right time...

    I'm sure no one here cares at all, but as a photographer's tool it has the spontaneity and connection between me and my subjects that I hope the Sony WunderMachin gives to all the aspiring Sonyista.

    G
    Really so I guess this means the other 99.99 percent of the population of photographers does not feel the same way about what they shoot and what there needs are. Im glad the Polaroid is making you happy I really am but for me IM OUT OF BUSINESS Period with one of them. Horses for courses but you certainly are showing your bias, attitude towards new technology that Sony is producing. The reality is you could say the same about Leica than.

    Like I said have a great weekend
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Google search is your friend. Sony Eye AF
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Agree this takes some homework.
    Face recognition, eye based focus setting ... "Just push the button and the camera gets it all right for you!" (...from the Sony website)

    How involving. What glorious Photography...!
    I'll pass. Sorry, no interest...

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I spent the grand amount of $650 for a new Polaroid SX-70 with rebuilt electronics and calibrated for 600 film a few weeks ago. Called the SLR670a by MiNT. It's making beautiful photographs for me, clearly my best performing Polaroid, and I'm very enthused about what I can do with it. But of course it's no umpteen bazigapixel AF Zeiss-lensed whirligig that can make movies and 40x60 inch prints without breathing hard. It just makes beautiful little photographs when I point it in the right direction and press the button at the right time...

    I'm sure no one here cares at all, but as a photographer's tool it has the spontaneity and connection between me and my subjects that I hope the Sony WunderMachin gives to all the aspiring Sonyista.

    G
    Palaroid camera made some people famous. So you put 6x6 film in the camera now?

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Face recognition, eye based focus setting ... "Just push the button and the camera gets it all right for you!" (...from the Sony website)

    How involving. What glorious Photography...!
    I'll pass. Sorry, no interest...

    G
    And Polaroid is what push a button get a print in 60 seconds. How involving is that.

    Godfrey give it up, you know full well there is much more involvement than that and just like Polaroid you have to think. Its a very handy tool that is a OPTION if you want to use it. Marketing crap is marketing crap you know that for Christ sake. Your not speaking to a bunch of rookies here.

    Im out as i can't argue this anymore
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Face recognition, eye based focus setting ... "Just push the button and the camera gets it all right for you!" (...from the Sony website)

    How involving. What glorious Photography...!
    I'll pass. Sorry, no interest...

    G


    Indeed, having out of focus portraits and candid moments is truly awesome art. Or blurry images. Or dark, grainy images. Sony has ruined photography.

    Here's the perfect camera:



    Not many of them still work, but if you are willing to spend $650, I'm sure you'll find one.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Can you speak in more specific terms about what those changes were with the A7r II?

    G


    I think people feel you're asking them to explain their needs or preferences in terms that make sense or would apply to you, and that puts them on the defensive. The reasons are necessarily specific to the person and his or her style.

    If you just want an answer to your specific question from one person, then the A7rII does something I needed. I take/make/create BW landscapes and had been using a Monochrom camera, because I wanted to emulate something like a 'classic' BW landscape style while focusing on a different aspect of 'nature.' (The catchword for this is 'repurposing.') I needed the resolution offered by the the MM (without Bayer array), but would also have liked to be able to use color-to-BW conversion sliders to control tonal balance and contrast. I didn't want to use an A7r for this because most of my exposures fall into the range where it tended to generate shutter shake. The A7rII solves this problem: no more shutter issues, and apparently because of the new sensor, the image quality of its color files, when converted to BW, closely matches the IQ of MM files made without a Bayer array. It may even do better in separating highlight values. Compared to MM, the A7rII offers the advantage of live view, which was important because with MM and the wide lenses I usually use, I was limited to the rough approximation offered by external viewfinders. I'd been limited by a kind of post-visualization, where I had to take the picture first to see what was actually going to be in the frame.

    I don't expect these choice-parameters to apply to you, nor to most other folks; it's a 'fit' between a certain piece of equipment and a style that interested me. I've spelled it all out because I don't think it makes much sense for folks to try to justify specific technical choices to others, except in the broadest terms and through constructive suggestions. Otherwise the interrogation can go on forever: Someone might come back and say 'Why don't you use a digital back or a technical camera?', and I'd have to reply that I have a bad knee and need light equipment. We could go on and on trying to justify our personal needs or preferences to one another, but it really doesn't lead anywhere. It's just the main features that people have mentioned – better AF for some, smaller size for others; file compatibility; presence/absence of EVF or LV, viewfinder lines, etc., that matter to individuals.

    IMO we can compare notes about a yet-to-be-seen camera best if we consider features and changes that might affect our work, without having to justify or refute what will turn out to be personal needs/preferences.

    Kirk
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 16th October 2015 at 13:25.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I spent the grand amount of $650 for a new Polaroid SX-70 with rebuilt electronics and calibrated for 600 film a few weeks ago. Called the SLR670a by MiNT. It's making beautiful photographs for me, clearly my best performing Polaroid, and I'm very enthused about what I can do with it. But of course it's no umpteen bazigapixel AF Zeiss-lensed whirligig that can make movies and 40x60 inch prints without breathing hard. It just makes beautiful little photographs when I point it in the right direction and press the button at the right time...

    I'm sure no one here cares at all, but as a photographer's tool it has the spontaneity and connection between me and my subjects that I hope the Sony WunderMachin gives to all the aspiring Sonyista.

    G

    You truly are amazing, when I grow up, maybe I'll be as gifted and talented as you are.
    the HepKitty
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    Re: Rx1r2

    "Sorry, no interest..."

    For someone who's uninterested, you have a lot to say.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    For me this camera is like a Contax T3 loaded with fine-grain film. It goes anywhere, P&S features are there if you want them, and the images will hold up for almost any purpose.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Sorry, no interest..."

    For someone who's uninterested, you have a lot to say.
    No. I have many questions as to why people are so excited.
    I've had face recognition and eye point AF in almost all my automated cameras since late 2008 (first one was the Panasonic G1). It has always worked a treat, and I use when t's appropriate. Has it changed my photography? Not at all. Similarly I've had fast, excellent lenses in compact-bodied cameras seemingly forever.

    Is it that Sony is so far behind the game that these things are a huge advance?

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    But for the huge lens that does not retract (like a Contax T) it is. The R2 still sports the age old T* coatings though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Runkel View Post
    For me this camera is like a Contax T3 loaded with fine-grain film. It goes anywhere, P&S features are there if you want them, and the images will hold up for almost any purpose.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    Polaroid camera made some people famous. So you put 6x6 film in the camera now?
    No; The Impossible Project SX-70 or 600 film. You can't put anything but integral instant film into an SX-70.

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Your Neo-Polaroid sounds like a fine tool. A while ago the little Eberts Gallery at 49 Geary (now closed) showed some large and really engaging inkjet prints from scanned Polaroids. It's a tempting way to go.

    Kirk

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    And Polaroid is what push a button get a print in 60 seconds. How involving is that.

    Godfrey give it up, you know full well there is much more involvement than that and just like Polaroid you have to think. Its a very handy tool that is a OPTION if you want to use it. Marketing crap is marketing crap you know that for Christ sake. Your not speaking to a bunch of rookies here.

    Im out as i can't argue this anymore
    You think I'm arguing. I'm not; I'm asking questions to understand what all the hoopla's about. Why are you so defensive?

    I don't say much about my Polaroids because I knew that none of you "professionals" would understand the notion behind Polaroid at all. But I've been commissioned to produce two books of Polaroid photographs. The question is when, as my time is very limited right now. But I'll figure that out. And yes, it's very involving. The Polaroid film has a unique rendering signature, produces virtually unreproducible results. Each photo is a finished product, complete unto itself. Getting it right isn't particularly easy. Limited dynamic range, a small print, limited tonal space, tricky exposure issues, manual focus, slow film, eight exposures per pack.

    Certainly nothing like turning on near or far eye focus in my E-M1 and snapping away, getting perfect focus every time for however many hundred exposures I want to press the button for.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 16th October 2015 at 15:59.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Really so I guess this means the other 99.99 percent of the population of photographers does not feel the same way about what they shoot and what there needs are. Im glad the Polaroid is making you happy I really am but for me IM OUT OF BUSINESS Period with one of them. Horses for courses but you certainly are showing your bias, attitude towards new technology that Sony is producing. The reality is you could say the same about Leica than. ...
    Never said they didn't. I just want to know what is punching their buttons and causing them all to spend another $3000+.

    I'll have a great weekend, thank you: I plan to edit a few photographs and read a book while my hip heals up. I hope yours is as pleasant and productive. :-)

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrewk View Post


    Indeed, having out of focus portraits and candid moments is truly awesome art. Or blurry images. Or dark, grainy images. Sony has ruined photography.

    Here's the perfect camera:



    Not many of them still work, but if you are willing to spend $650, I'm sure you'll find one.
    I had three of them; they cost me a total of probably $40 over the past thirty years. Unfortunately, 122 film is long out of production and cutting down sheet film for one-at-a-time photography is very cumbersome and time consuming. Sold the last one a year or two ago.

    G

  44. #144
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    ...IMO we can compare notes about a yet-to-be-seen camera best if we consider features and changes that might affect our work, without having to justify or refute what will turn out to be personal needs/preferences.
    Thank you, Kirk, for a rational and interesting response.

    It sounds like the A7rII had the technical mojo to do what you were looking for, and I'm happiest to read such specifics ... that's real information, not necessarily what I might have chosen an A7rII for but useful, solid information that I can keep in mind if ever I feel like looking at an A7rII. I dislike speaking in broad swipes of "it's just going to be so great!" terms. Blech.

    Moving to the M-P and picking up a D750 were on a similar basis for me, as was buying the SLR670a I mentioned. Each one of these cameras has specific, technical characteristics which made an improvement in my photo work ...

    • The M-P's excellent responsiveness and improved ISO capability over the M9 meant my people photos are less hampered by constraints of the M9. Its live view capability allows much greater accuracy when setting focus, when that is needed for ultra fast or ultra wide or ultra long lenses.
    • The D750 allows me to use the same Nikkor lenses I was enjoying with my F and F6 film cameras seamlessly on a digital body for when I need that capability and workflow. So much better than adapting F (or R) lenses to the Sony A7 and having it not do what I wanted so much of the time.
    • The SLR670a allows me to use film that is 4x faster, greatly improving sharpness and hand-holdability when light levels are dropping, and being refurbished/overhauled means it operates more consistently, reliably than my other Polaroids, making more of the game understanding film and exposure while working the subject, and less working around the vagaries of the equipment.


    You see? These are concrete, useful things that are decision points for my purchasing these upgraded pieces of equipment. Whether others might find them useful or not depends on what they do, but they're not just "Oh goody, the RX1r2 has so much more stuff than the RX1r that I just KNOW I'll get much better photos with all the new opportunities!" Listening to that kind of nonsense all day makes me a little sick to my stomach.

    When I talk about my excitement over a new piece of equipment, it's the specifics that matter and how I'll take advantage of them, not generically whether they have a gigabazillion pixels, or eye point AF, or a hundred other trademarked and patented feature credits.

    G

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Guy, It is an ever shrinking market.

    The RX1 (new because not many bought them) can now be bought for 1400 Euros instead of the 3500 at its debut.

    RX2R1 will be ~2000 in a few months.
    Have you checked the price of used M9's lately? Downunder, they were $9500 new. Now, $3500. All digital cameras depreciate. Believe it or not, this phenomena is not unique to Sony.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Kimio Maki (Sony's head of Digital Imaging) on the reason the RX1 (old and new) exists, and why mundane discussions re AF speed and buttons don't really matter, and you may as well compare it to MFD instead of Ps and Qs, even those made by Leica:

    "This is the second phase of the RX1 series and we checked the customer demand, especially from professional photographers. Lots of photographers are using the RX1 series camera to achieve preciseness and produce high resolution images. Then they said, what is next? We asked them. More resolution, raise the resolution they said, therefore we’ve tried it.
    The lens has got very good preciseness. The resolution at the corners is the same as the resolution in the centre. A camera like this has never existed before. This product has the number one resolution."

  47. #147
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Oh Goody Goody!

    The Rx1r mII has so much more stuff, I know I'll get a much better photo.


    I can hardly wait though, because the Rx1r mIII and even the IV will put me over the top...



    the HepKitty
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    Can you speak in more specific terms about what those changes were with the A7r II?

    G


    I think people feel you're asking them to explain their needs or preferences in terms that make sense or would apply to you, and that puts them on the defensive. The reasons are necessarily specific to the person and his or her style.

    If you just want an answer to your specific question from one person, then the A7rII does something I needed. I take/make/create BW landscapes and had been using a Monochrom camera, because I wanted to emulate something like a 'classic' BW landscape style while focusing on a different aspect of 'nature.' (The catchword for this is 'repurposing.') I needed the resolution offered by the the MM (without Bayer array), but would also have liked to be able to use color-to-BW conversion sliders to control tonal balance and contrast. I didn't want to use an A7r for this because most of my exposures fall into the range where it tended to generate shutter shake. The A7rII solves this problem: no more shutter issues, and apparently because of the new sensor, the image quality of its color files, when converted to BW, closely matches the IQ of MM files made without a Bayer array. It may even do better in separating highlight values. Compared to MM, the A7rII offers the advantage of live view, which was important because with MM and the wide lenses I usually use, I was limited to the rough approximation offered by external viewfinders. I'd been limited by a kind of post-visualization, where I had to take the picture first to see what was actually going to be in the frame.

    I don't expect these choice-parameters to apply to you, nor to most other folks; it's a 'fit' between a certain piece of equipment and a style that interested me. I've spelled it all out because I don't think it makes much sense for folks to try to justify specific technical choices to others, except in the broadest terms and through constructive suggestions. Otherwise the interrogation can go on forever: Someone might come back and say 'Why don't you use a digital back or a technical camera?', and I'd have to reply that I have a bad knee and need light equipment. We could go on and on trying to justify our personal needs or preferences to one another, but it really doesn't lead anywhere. It's just the main features that people have mentioned – better AF for some, smaller size for others; file compatibility; presence/absence of EVF or LV, viewfinder lines, etc., that matter to individuals.

    IMO we can compare notes about a yet-to-be-seen camera best if we consider features and changes that might affect our work, without having to justify or refute what will turn out to be personal needs/preferences.

    Kirk
    That's a good post. You are clear. Just one comment in that the M246 that I own does have LV for wide angle lens framing and FP for when I want precise focus. I know, the Sony can do all that for less than half the price of the M246. Some even say they prefer converting color images to B&W. If in fact the new a7RII is so very close to the even new 24MP M246 (I know you did not suggest that), then a switch can perhaps be justified. Interesting and thought provoking.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Thank you, Kirk, for a rational and interesting response.

    It sounds like the A7rII had the technical mojo to do what you were looking for, and I'm happiest to read such specifics ... that's real information, not necessarily what I might have chosen an A7rII for but useful, solid information that I can keep in mind if ever I feel like looking at an A7rII. I dislike speaking in broad swipes of "it's just going to be so great!" terms. Blech.

    Moving to the M-P and picking up a D750 were on a similar basis for me, as was buying the SLR670a I mentioned. Each one of these cameras has specific, technical characteristics which made an improvement in my photo work ...

    • The M-P's excellent responsiveness and improved ISO capability over the M9 meant my people photos are less hampered by constraints of the M9. Its live view capability allows much greater accuracy when setting focus, when that is needed for ultra fast or ultra wide or ultra long lenses.
    • The D750 allows me to use the same Nikkor lenses I was enjoying with my F and F6 film cameras seamlessly on a digital body for when I need that capability and workflow. So much better than adapting F (or R) lenses to the Sony A7 and having it not do what I wanted so much of the time.
    • The SLR670a allows me to use film that is 4x faster, greatly improving sharpness and hand-holdability when light levels are dropping, and being refurbished/overhauled means it operates more consistently, reliably than my other Polaroids, making more of the game understanding film and exposure while working the subject, and less working around the vagaries of the equipment.


    You see? These are concrete, useful things that are decision points for my purchasing these upgraded pieces of equipment. Whether others might find them useful or not depends on what they do, but they're not just "Oh goody, the RX1r2 has so much more stuff than the RX1r that I just KNOW I'll get much better photos with all the new opportunities!" Listening to that kind of nonsense all day makes me a little sick to my stomach.

    When I talk about my excitement over a new piece of equipment, it's the specifics that matter and how I'll take advantage of them, not generically whether they have a gigabazillion pixels, or eye point AF, or a hundred other trademarked and patented feature credits.

    G
    So ... I guess you won't be buying the M-P Herme's edition

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Have you checked the price of used M9's lately? Downunder, they were $9500 new. Now, $3500. All digital cameras depreciate. Believe it or not, this phenomena is not unique to Sony.
    You are comparing old used Leica product prices with the new, unused Sony Rx1 prices.

    Yes all digicams depreciate but it is a fact that Sony cams are listed at unrealistic prices as evidenced by the dramatic drops within a few months.

    I am not interested in what one would get for an used gear but am looking at what I pay for a new one.

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