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Thread: Rx1r2

  1. #151
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Lucille the Hepkitty when she heard the Sony Rx1r II will make her photo's better (notice she is holding the plain ol normal Rx1)





    Oh Happy day.......
    the HepKitty
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  2. #152
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey;663x887
    Can you speak in more specific terms about what those changes were with the A7r II?

    G
    IBIS

    4K video

    Eye Detect AF

    Better files

    Que Showtime music ...

    And Many More ....

    -Bill

  3. #153
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    Re: Rx1r2

    There's hundreds of posts on the A7rII on this forum alone never mind the Internet. All you have do is look, every detail has been discussed, chewed , spit out and eatin again. All one has to do is look and read. I'm not going to go into every freaking detail because someone choices not to read. Frankly the questions are just trolling around and I have participated in every discussion.

    I'll shelf the rest of my comments because it's the same old repeating stuff I been reading for years and is extremely boring. I'll stop there before I ban myself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  4. #154
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    There's hundreds of posts on the A7rII on this forum alone never mind the Internet. All you have do is look, every detail has been discussed, chewed , spit out and eatin again. All one has to do is look and read. I'm not going to go into every freaking detail because someone choices not to read. Frankly the questions are just trolling around and I have participated in every discussion.

    I'll shelf the rest of my comments because it's the same old repeating stuff I been reading for years and is extremely boring. I'll stop there before I ban myself.
    Guy, it's the same with Apple products. Folks seemed to be threatened and/or offended by new technologies and discount anybody who seeks to profit from such technologies.

    But I agree, when they start demeaning the so-called "saps" who fall for the latest gadgets, it gets boring. I guess we are mindless lemmings being led by nefarious entities intent on destroying photography.

    I am an early adopter. I not only accept it, I EMBRACE it. If that makes me a "sap", then I will wear that badge with pride and honor.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    There's hundreds of posts on the A7rII on this forum alone never mind the Internet. All you have do is look, every detail has been discussed, chewed , spit out and eatin again. All one has to do is look and read. I'm not going to go into every freaking detail because someone choices not to read. Frankly the questions are just trolling around and I have participated in every discussion.

    I'll shelf the rest of my comments because it's the same old repeating stuff I been reading for years and is extremely boring. I'll stop there before I ban myself.

    You can't ban yourself until you share with us the difference between the Zeiss Batis 25mm and the Zeiss Loxia 21mm, then after that, ban yourself.
    the HepKitty
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  6. #156
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    IBIS

    4K video

    Eye Detect AF

    Better files

    Que Showtime music ...

    And Many More ....

    -Bill
    Sadly, that tells me nothing about the why of your interest. You just listed a bunch of features.

    G

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    So ... I guess you won't be buying the M-P Herme's edition
    Only if you pay for it.

    G

  7. #157
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Well, this thread got tiresome pretty quickly didn't it?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  8. #158
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    There's hundreds of posts on the A7rII on this forum alone never mind the Internet. All you have do is look, every detail has been discussed, chewed , spit out and eatin again. All one has to do is look and read. I'm not going to go into every freaking detail because someone choices not to read. Frankly the questions are just trolling around and I have participated in every discussion.

    I'll shelf the rest of my comments because it's the same old repeating stuff I been reading for years and is extremely boring. I'll stop there before I ban myself.
    But why are these features important to you? What were the decision points that made buying the camera important to you?
    I'm not interested in boring lists of features and hundreds of blah blah blah posts. I'm interest in understanding the motivations
    of credible people who choose again and again to upgrade to the next model seemingly without an eye blink.

    Jeez, I'm just asking for some information. Isn't that what the notion of a discussion forum is all about? Sorry to bore you.
    If that's how you see the process of discussion, I think I'll go do something exciting and interesting, like reading a book. It will be more fun.

    G

  9. #159
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Sony is just replacing their own products, over and over again, on too short a cycle.
    The RX1 came into the wild over three years ago, that's a long while in this game.
    Also, There is a smaller time gap between the Leica X1 and X2 so that comment does not compute in this case.


    Me, the RX1rII has every addition I lamented on the RX1. I'd prefer the OVF to not be a pop-up but that is getting picky.
    I've been a long time Sigma DP2 and DP2 Merrill user and am used to both the focal length and enjoyed the elegant simplicity and the no holds barred superb IQ from a fixed sensor/lens combo. Like others here team it with the Ricoh GR in the bag and a great kit.
    It would round out if it had a Sony 21mm adapted lens available.

    For those like me who don't have to pander to any client or audience other than myself who is looking for minimalist high quality lightweight camera when out on the trail the RX1rII is ideal. Its pretty much medium format in your palm. Consider what 42 Megapixel cost and looked like in MF years ago and this is strongly becoming a bargain for camera and lens. Its on my radar. Either this or a close out RX1r.

    PS: Lucille I have loved seeing your RX1 images on seriouscompacts.
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  10. #160
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post


    PS: Lucille I have loved seeing your RX1 images on seriouscompacts.


    Thank you honey, hopefully and God willing, I will be displaying some Rx1R II images soon.
    the HepKitty

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You are comparing old used Leica product prices with the new, unused Sony Rx1 prices.

    Yes all digicams depreciate but it is a fact that Sony cams are listed at unrealistic prices as evidenced by the dramatic drops within a few months.

    I am not interested in what one would get for an used gear but am looking at what I pay for a new one.
    I paid $9500 for a brand new M9 and they're now flipping for $3500 on the used market. You need to take off your Herme's tinted glasses. Leica digital depreciates as much, if not more, than the brands for the common folk.

  12. #162
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am not interested in what one would get for an used gear but am looking at what I pay for a new one.
    I have to equate both as usually the sale of the old one has to bolster the cost price of the new.

  13. #163
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    I paid $9500 for a brand new M9 and they're now flipping for $3500 on the used market. You need to take off your Herme's tinted glasses. Leica digital depreciates as much, if not more, than the brands for the common folk.


    Not sure what to make of your posts. I do know that I am not that "smart" to pay $3500 for an exfoliating sensor.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Sadly, that tells me nothing about the why of your interest. You just listed a bunch of features.

    G

    - - - Updated - - -

    G
    You have just confused the heck out of me.

    I feel like I am Bruce Lee in the mirror scene of Enter the Dragon and I no longer have any sense of who I am or even if I like photography any longer.

    My only hope is to find yet another new camera.

    Luckily, the mighty A7s2 is on the way to my doorstep. It also has features.

    A unique combination of features.

    And, if I ever find my way out of this thread, which I actually started and hoped would be about the Rx1R2 but which I myself helped to sink into pointlessness, I will pick up the A7s2 and use it.

    I will make new images with the A7s2 that I could not make with any other camera.

    I will put my Noctilux on it and find my way into a dark, dark corner and take crazy photos of my kids that I can look at over and over and be amazed at who they are.

    And, if my wonderful wife weren't so happy that she replaced the EVF on my RX1 as a gift last summer, I would buy the Rx1r2.

    Because the AF probably won't suck.

    And right now, I am going to select one of the unspeakably beautiful shots I took of my son with my A7r2, using Eye Detect, and the Macro/90 at a special family event where I wanted great images but didn't want to be hidden behind a camera and I am going to make a birthday card out of it.

    -Bill
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  15. #165
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post


    Not sure what to make of your posts. I do know that I am not that "smart" to pay $3500 for an exfoliating sensor.
    I can't work out your posts.
    Your comment here supports his post even more. He was pointing out that Leica devalues as much as anyone else. Add the sensor issue and you point our here and it seems the Leica M9 should be worth even less.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I can't work out your posts.
    Your comment here supports his post even more. He was pointing out that Leica devalues as much as anyone else. Add the sensor issue and you point our here and it seems the Leica M9 should be worth even less.
    Why is that? I was mentioning new (unused, never been sold before units) prices of RX1 and he is talking about what he paid for his m9 and how much people are paying for used ones. I am interested in the R2XR1 and not the m9 or the q hence its (sony) price is of interest to me. I made the msitake of paying full amount for the A7R but that will never be repeated again. My (new units) A7 and A7s were bought for ~50% of the list prices here.

  17. #167
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why is that? I was mentioning new (unused, never been sold before units) prices of RX1 and he is talking about what he paid for his m9 and how much people are paying for used ones. I am interested in the R2XR1 and not the m9 or the q hence its (sony) price is of interest to me. I made the msitake of paying full amount for the A7R but that will never be repeated again. My (new units) A7 and A7s were bought for ~50% of the list prices here.
    The Rx1r2 looks amazing to me.

    Do you think the AF will be up to street shooting standards?

    Or do you generally zone focus?

    -Bill

  18. #168
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    You have just confused the heck out of me.

    I feel like I am Bruce Lee in the mirror scene of Enter the Dragon and I no longer have any sense of who I am or even if I like photography any longer.

    My only hope is to find yet another new camera.

    Luckily, the mighty A7s2 is on the way to my doorstep. It also has features.

    A unique combination of features.

    And, if I ever find my way out of this thread, which I actually started and hoped would be about the Rx1R2 but which I myself helped to sink into pointlessness, I will pick up the A7s2 and use it.

    I will make new images with the A7s2 that I could not make with any other camera.

    I will put my Noctilux on it and find my way into a dark, dark corner and take crazy photos of my kids that I can look at over and over and be amazed at who they are.

    And, if my wonderful wife weren't so happy that she replaced the EVF on my RX1 as a gift last summer, I would buy the Rx1r2.

    Because the AF probably won't suck.

    And right now, I am going to select one of the unspeakably beautiful shots I took of my son with my A7r2, using Eye Detect, and the Macro/90 at a special family event where I wanted great images but didn't want to be hidden behind a camera and I am going to make a birthday card out of it.

    -Bill

    That A7S II is going to rock daddy-o, I have the A7S and the files from that 12mp sensor are really sweet. They are different when I see them in post, they are special. I know that camera was marketed for video folks, but the stills are magical, they have a special look IMO, pair it with the 'mini Otus' 55mm and you get some sweet stuff. You will love the A7S II, you will love it.


    A7S & 55mm Zeiss f/3.2
    the HepKitty
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  19. #169
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    That A7S II is going to rock daddy-o, I have the A7S and the files from that 12mp sensor are really sweet. They are different when I see them in post, they are special. I know that camera was marketed for video folks, but the stills are magical, they have a special look IMO, pair it with the 'mini Otus' 55mm and you get some sweet stuff. You will love the A7S II, you will love it.


    A7S & 55mm Zeiss f/3.2
    That image is so cool.

    I know some cameras have special sauce. The Leica M9 was the last one I owned that I felt that way about.

    The files from my A7r2 are so lovely but I have heard others praise the A7s as special. I am really excited to try it myself. Thanks for posting that image.

    -Bill
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  20. #170
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    The Rx1r2 looks amazing to me.

    Do you think the AF will be up to street shooting standards?

    Or do you generally zone focus?

    -Bill
    Bill, I don't know about any standards. It sure has all the things I wanted in the original RX1.

    The day i use AF seriously, I might as well start looking up Polaroid and ultrasound focusing, or skip that altogether and go straight to daguerro type to be truly artistic.

  21. #171
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    But why are these features important to you? What were the decision points that made buying the camera important to you? I'm not interested in boring lists of features and hundreds of blah blah blah posts. I'm interest in understanding the motivations of credible people who choose again and again to upgrade to the next model seemingly without an eye blink. Jeez, I'm just asking for some information. Isn't that what the notion of a discussion forum is all about? Sorry to bore you. If that's how you see the process of discussion, I think I'll go do something exciting and interesting, like reading a book. It will be more fun. G
    I don't get why you feel the need to question the buying habits of others or why you feel they should pander to you. Several people have mentioned features as reasons why they bought the camera but apparently that wasn't good enough for you.

    To answer the question- yes some shots could be taken with other cameras but people choose to upgrade to newer and improved models. No one forces anyone to upgrade and I've been using my A7 and A7R for nearly two years now. I would probably already have an A7R2 had my wedding not gone severely over budget but that's another issue.

    The truth is Sony, Leica, Nikon, Canon, etc all make great cameras but we choose a brand/model to use simply because it's what one likes. Some like the new features of Sony and that makes them enthusiastic to go out, shoot, and make pictures so how exactly is Sony destroying photography as an art? By providing tools and technology that excites people?

    Obviously from your comments you're looking to press some sort of subconscious vibes of your own superior choices by thinking people have to justify their choice to you... Get the F over yourself with your smugness. There... It needed to be said... Oh and have a nice weekend with you book, Polaroid, and happy healing. No hard or harsh feelings from me but life's too short to beat around the bush when the elephant is already in the damn room.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com
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  22. #172
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Why is that? I was mentioning new (unused, never been sold before units) prices of RX1 and he is talking about what he paid for his m9 and how much people are paying for used ones. I am interested in the R2XR1 and not the m9 or the q hence its (sony) price is of interest to me. I made the msitake of paying full amount for the A7R but that will never be repeated again. My (new units) A7 and A7s were bought for ~50% of the list prices here.
    I have purchased both an A7 and A7II NEW and in both cases made a small profit on selling them USED.
    In the case of the A7 there was a short term cashback deal where I picked one up. Sold a few weeks later after the deal ended - profit.
    With the A7II there was a cashback deal AND a free adapter. I picked the most expensive (Metabone EOS IV) and sold that new unused.
    Even factoring evilBay fees and postage I came out on top. A first for me.

    I tried them both out and found they were not keepers at the time. What I really wanted is the A7s or II but was only funding one lens. Hence this is my interest in the RX1 line.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Bill, I don't know about any standards. It sure has all the things I wanted in the original RX1.

    The day i use AF seriously, I might as well start looking up Polaroid and ultrasound focusing, or skip that altogether and go straight to daguerro type to be truly artistic.
    I looove AF

    And MF

    Both

    -Bill
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  24. #174
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Tim, We are quite different.

  25. #175
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tim, We are quite different.


    We are all quite different...

    But we partake in the same thing, the love of being behind a lens and capturing moments in time, and we all have something to offer. I love the art of making images, I loved it in the days of film, I loved it with my rangefinders, my Canons, my Olympus, and now my Sony's.

    But I do hate that Medium Format thread bouncing around here....... Sony, make me a Rx3 50mp Medium Format fixed lens camera......Please, oh, and if your not to busy make me a polaroid also.
    the HepKitty
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  26. #176
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tim, We are quite different.
    thats ok, but we both love making images so I enjoy your posts and images nonetheless.
    These discussions here are just banter. In the end I think any of us could use most cameras but when you have choice we like to talk.
    Last edited by Tim; 16th October 2015 at 18:30.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I'll try to stay out of the Sony vs. The World discussion for a change. Sony seems to have addressed the most important issues of the RX1(add extension here), and I'm sure it's a fine camera which will find many happy users.

    However, the way they have solved the, in my view, most important challenge; adding a viewfinder, puzzles me. When I tried an RX100(add extension here) a year or two ago, thinking it could be a nice carry-everywhere camera for me, with the pop-up viewfinder thingy and all, the Jack-in-the-box solution was what quickly made me change my mind. To start with, the shop had to go through three copies to find one that worked properly (one showed the image upside down, straight out of the factory sealed box and one didn't seem to lock properly in place).

    A friend of mine later bought the gadget, but soon found the viewfinder too fiddly for his Scandinavian man-hands, and resorted to use the LCD before shelving the device permanently (I believe one of his daughters use it now as a kind of designer jewelry that can also take photos).

    Hopefully, the R2D2 has a viewfinder that is more solidly built than it's smaller sibling. However, if it's dropped and lands upside down with the viewfinder extended, it's hard to see how a trip to Mother Sony can be avoided, a trip that I understand can take time, as the company's ambitions with regards to repair turnaround times seem to be limited.

    Bearing in mind that there are several cameras available that are tiny and feature a built-in viewfinder that can take a beating (Canon G5 X, Panasonic GM5 and Nikon V1/V2 to mention a few), it's tempting to see this as a way for Sony to create a more sophisticated solution than was strictly necessary, simply to add yet another bragging factor. If I were in the market for such a camera (which I'm clearly not, for financial and other reasons), I would see the viewfinder solution as a big minus compared to the Leica Q, big enough probably to go for the German solution.

    Stuff that can break, will. It's only a matter of time.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'll try to stay out of the Sony vs. The World discussion for a change. Sony seems to have addressed the most important issues of the RX1(add extension here), and I'm sure it's a fine camera which will find many happy users.

    However, the way they have solved the, in my view, most important challenge; adding a viewfinder, puzzles me. When I tried an RX100(add extension here) a year or two ago, thinking it could be a nice carry-everywhere camera for me, with the pop-up viewfinder thingy and all, the Jack-in-the-box solution was what quickly made me change my mind. To start with, the shop had to go through three copies to find one that worked properly (one showed the image upside down, straight out of the factory sealed box and one didn't seem to lock properly in place).

    A friend of mine later bought the gadget, but soon found the viewfinder too fiddly for his Scandinavian man-hands, and resorted to use the LCD before shelving the device permanently (I believe one of his daughters use it now as a kind of designer jewelry that can also take photos).

    Hopefully, the R2D2 has a viewfinder that is more solidly built than it's smaller sibling. However, if it's dropped and lands upside down with the viewfinder extended, it's hard to see how a trip to Mother Sony can be avoided, a trip that I understand can take time, as the company's ambitions with regards to repair turnaround times seem to be limited.

    Bearing in mind that there are several cameras available that are tiny and feature a built-in viewfinder that can take a beating (Canon G5 X, Panasonic GM5 and Nikon V1/V2 to mention a few), it's tempting to see this as a way for Sony to create a more sophisticated solution than was strictly necessary, simply to add yet another bragging factor. If I were in the market for such a camera (which I'm clearly not, for financial and other reasons), I would see the viewfinder solution as a big minus compared to the Leica Q, big enough probably to go for the German solution.

    Stuff that can break, will. It's only a matter of time.
    I have a Nikon AW1 which is supposed to survive a six foot fall.

    I expect any other camera I own would not.

    Except maybe my iPhone in a rugged case.

    I would imagine any of the cameras you list to be quite the dilettante when it comes to leaping off a shelf onto the floor.

    It may indeed be too fiddly for some. Having not actually seen one and not really expecting to since every Sony Store on the West Coast has evaporated, I will await the opinion of others.

    I certainly feel my RX1 is as rugged as any garden variety non-rugged camera. Hopefully, Sony at least makes the pop up feel strong as this is the only criteria most people will actually use when gauging how tough it actually is.

    Except for those that have already made that judgement without seeing one, touching one or asking someone that has.

    -Bill

  29. #179
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    Re: Rx1r2

    My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!

    I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

    I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).

    I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise not to question why any further.

    At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

    G
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post

    I certainly feel my RX1 is as rugged as any garden variety non-rugged camera. Hopefully, Sony at least makes the pop up feel strong as this is the only criteria most people will actually use when gauging how tough it actually is.

    Except for those that have already made that judgement without seeing one, touching one or asking someone that has.

    -Bill
    Exactly. I see the original RX1/R as relatively rugged cameras, which is why I hope that the viewfinder is stronger than the one of the RX100 Mark Something. However, there is a limit as to how strong it can be built without becoming too large, and the weight of the camera is substantial at more than 500g, giving it considerable momentum during a free fall. There can be no doubt that any viewfinder in a permanent metal housing would be much stronger.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    There are other cameras with a similar design of viewfinders or flashes. I imagine this design works. Camera is all metal, viewfinder or not I imagine it will have some visible damage if it falls. In my experience plastic outer shell takes much more everyday abuse than metal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I'll try to stay out of the Sony vs. The World discussion for a change. Sony seems to have addressed the most important issues of the RX1(add extension here), and I'm sure it's a fine camera which will find many happy users.

    However, the way they have solved the, in my view, most important challenge; adding a viewfinder, puzzles me. When I tried an RX100(add extension here) a year or two ago, thinking it could be a nice carry-everywhere camera for me, with the pop-up viewfinder thingy and all, the Jack-in-the-box solution was what quickly made me change my mind. To start with, the shop had to go through three copies to find one that worked properly (one showed the image upside down, straight out of the factory sealed box and one didn't seem to lock properly in place).

    A friend of mine later bought the gadget, but soon found the viewfinder too fiddly for his Scandinavian man-hands, and resorted to use the LCD before shelving the device permanently (I believe one of his daughters use it now as a kind of designer jewelry that can also take photos).

    Hopefully, the R2D2 has a viewfinder that is more solidly built than it's smaller sibling. However, if it's dropped and lands upside down with the viewfinder extended, it's hard to see how a trip to Mother Sony can be avoided, a trip that I understand can take time, as the company's ambitions with regards to repair turnaround times seem to be limited.

    Bearing in mind that there are several cameras available that are tiny and feature a built-in viewfinder that can take a beating (Canon G5 X, Panasonic GM5 and Nikon V1/V2 to mention a few), it's tempting to see this as a way for Sony to create a more sophisticated solution than was strictly necessary, simply to add yet another bragging factor. If I were in the market for such a camera (which I'm clearly not, for financial and other reasons), I would see the viewfinder solution as a big minus compared to the Leica Q, big enough probably to go for the German solution.

    Stuff that can break, will. It's only a matter of time.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by olegkin View Post
    There are other cameras with a similar design of viewfinders or flashes. I imagine this design works. Camera is all metal, viewfinder or not I imagine it will have some visible damage if it falls. In my experience plastic outer shell takes much more everyday abuse than metal.
    Plastic cracks, metal gets dents. A camera with dents mostly works perfectly fine. One with cracks doesn't.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Exactly. I see the original RX1/R as relatively rugged cameras, which is why I hope that the viewfinder is stronger than the one of the RX100 Mark Something. However, there is a limit as to how strong it can be built without becoming too large, and the weight of the camera is substantial at more than 500g, giving it considerable momentum during a free fall. There can be no doubt that any viewfinder in a permanent metal housing would be much stronger.
    Not a Leica M viewfinder, which will go out of whack with any bump, dump, free fall or just the passage of time.

    Among EVF's it would certainly seem that a non-moving part would be more reliable as well as sturdier.

    I hope it is not a step back as this is one of the features I wanted in my RX1.

    -Bill

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!

    =I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

    I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).


    At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

    G
    I have no camera brand loyalties anywhere, I am fickle and will drop a brand for another at another drop - a hat So no sensitivity with me, merely a discussion. I hope it stays this way.

    There have only been a few cameras that inspired me. One was my OM4. A brilliant idea, multispot metering. It somehow worked where the OM2 didn't.
    The Contax T3 yielded a very high percentage of keepers than no other camera has, and that lens.. oh, the pop the rendering. Super.
    The Ricoh GR in all its forms has been a constant companion because as a compact it has worked well where others failed.

    I always believed with many items that I have owned that I will adapt to the device, car, camera whatever. But I think as I age I don't adapt easily anymore. The RX1r II may fit.

    To all of you here, who I consider you are all my friends, use what you like and make some images.
    Please tell me about your camera and the experience, but please don't be offended if I don't buy what you have bought.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Indeed. That's why I nearly always have a camera with me too. Usually small, good lens, quick operating, etc. It can be anything from a Leica X to a Polaroid SX-70, to the M-P. I usually don't take out the DSLR or any heavyweight gear unless I have something specific in mind for it.

    But moving from an RX1 to an RX1r II? What's so huge about the upgrade as to make a huge difference in the results? More pixels? More dynamic range? How much more do you need?

    I can't see it.

    G
    What about simply new buyers for the RX1r II model, making it more competitive vs what's out there? To me personally- I am interested in more pixels because it allows for more focal lengths from a single prime. Also the ISO has been improved and other characteristics. Plus I think it's a charm to be able to have an EVF and hide it keeping the camera small.

    Small is important to me. In fact, if I had an RX1 and did most of my photography with it, that ability to have the EVF tucked inside would almost sell me on that alone.

    I don't have one so count me in the consideration of a new buyer. Small, ultra high quality glass, state of the art sensor for street night life sounds interesting to me. The only reason I am not preordering right now is because 35mm is not my favorite or main focal length.

    That's why I am very interested if Sony could do a digital crop at least for framing even if the full shot is the 42 MP in raw.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent. I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!). I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise not to question why any further.At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)G
    I don't think people are sensitive so much as tired of reading owners of other cameras go out of their way to insult owners of cameras that they claim to have no interest in due to their enthusiasm. If your camera doesn't give you that feeling then I can say that's unfortunate for you. If it did then you wouldn't have to ask why or how people are enthusiastic about their camera.

    As for brand loyalty I think many have owned or own other brands. They just choose Sony now. I started with Canon, went to Panasonic, Leica, and then Sony. No brand loyalty so much as one that invest in the best available tool for me. I don't care what's best for others - even within the same system mount.

    I think most here know I've been pretty vocal about FE lenses that don't work for me such as the 35/2.8 or the 24-70/4. So it's not that people blindly shout the praises of Sony but rather love that they are responsive to the desires of owners.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 17th October 2015 at 07:36.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!
    This alone says something man. Hehe. I mean, I hardly use Sony and I am interested. Why label people in a group.


    I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

    I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).
    I don't think anyone here is praying, wishing, sacrificing to some god or really talking about specific terms of Sony gaining market share as if it as their new born baby. Anyhow, Sony market share worldwide for cameras is #3 and the Camera, Sensor and Computer Entertainment division (that's Playstation) are doing pretty well AFAIK.

    I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise not to question why any further.

    At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

    G
    Maybe you should post photos next time :-)

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Insults don't contribute to an enjoyable and productive forum experience.
    They should really stop or be stopped!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I'm glad this thread has got past a brief snarky stage and has become peaceful again. It's actually caused me to reflect on what I expect from a camera!

    Because of its technical innovations – slight to some, more important to others – those who've posted here have naturally focused on the camera's electronic features like autofocus, EVF, presence/absence of image stabilization, etc. But while the tech specifications look promising, it still matters a lot to me how a camera feels in my hands. The 'RX2' would have to pass a feeling/fondling test. The sensor in my A7rII really impresses me and makes me interested in the new Sony as a constant-companion or carry-around camera to match my larger one. But I'd have to handle one to know.

    I've felt really really just right with only two cameras, M4 and Rollei TLR. These seemed custom-made (in their different ways) to match my eyes, hands, body, and points-of-view. The M4 in particular came to feel like a material extension of my body and vision.

    Turning to digital, I tried DSLRs and regarded them as functional but overbearing, looking and feeling like military-grade weaponry. Then everything changed when a friend suggested we have lunch so she could show me her new discovery, an M8. She predicted this would be the most expensive lunch I'd ever eaten. She was right – I handled it and bonded.

    The M8/M9/MM/M-E have felt to me like slightly paunchy versions of a perfect camera, perhaps because of years of muscle-memory about how to hold and use them and how to focus via rangefinder. And I've persisted with them beyond the point, perhaps, of financial sense and practicality, largely because they've felt right to me. I've recently tried other cameras (X100s and A7), but I couldn't get a feel for them. I fired the Fuji in happy little bursts but felt like I was blowing my sense of care and discipline. The A7 seemed good enough as long as I was deluded into thinking it would work well with most Leica lenses. But it never felt right to me.

    Now I'm using the A7rII for landscapes, on a tripod with L-bracket, MATE, and WATE, and a couple of other lenses. Thus encumbered any camera would feel awkward, and what I love are the files. This is why I'd be interested in pairing it with an RX2. But the latter will have to fit my body, hand, and eye, well enough for me to stop missing Leicas.

    Maybe everyone else was assuming that these factors of feeling and bonding were part of the picture, but only those who've been using RX1s would know about these matters ahead of time.

    Kirk

    PS, Whoops, while I was writing this Guy and others got upset, above and below. Or was the ban tongue-in-cheek? I rather like Sonyista – it has a prettier sound than Leicaphile.

    Please reconsider exiling Godfrey – he's already bowed out of this thread, and his posts and images are always interesting.
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 17th October 2015 at 07:41.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My, you Sonyista are a sensitive bunch!

    I have no agenda and no issues with all of you enjoying the livin' crap out of the RX1r II when you get it. I hope it inspires you to make stunning photographs, works of such delicacy and emotion as to bring a person to tears or laughter, whichever is your intent.

    I hope Sony achieves the gains in market share you wish them to, and maybe a little profit along the way, to fund the next one (RX1r III OR BUST!).

    I will enjoy sitting on the sidelines and watching you thrill to the crisp new feel of your Sonys whilst I putter about with the various junk I use. And I promise .not to question why any further.

    At least until the next upgrade... ]'-)

    G
    That my friend just bought you a two week ban. You don't insult anyone here. You know the rules and frankly you so out of line it should be longer. I'm tired of the trolling.

    Sonyista . Really
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I apologize to the members here if anyone has a issue of my actions please PM me. Thanks Guy
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Now let's move on. Even though this makes for me not the greatest business decision it does have some real pluses for me and I think others as well. Backup in some ways this is a nice backup to A7rII owners as your from what we are reading getting the same operational, functional to a point but more important the same file and yes owners of the 35 1.4 could easily sell that lens and use this as a replacement. So in my case it could be a if the crap hits the fan I got a cam that can serve as a backup. Now we all know a exact copy might be better like a A7rII or even a A7II but seriously this looks like a load of fun. So on my end this does have a personal touch too. It's a go anywhere travel, street and more important I got a go anywhere carry all the time camera. That's pretty appealing to me. Obviously some may share some of these reasons and some even more reasons. But I see it even not a great business case still very compelling and as some members pointed out very excited to get one. I always say this and repeat again. This is about fun for many and if it gets you out the door to enjoy this hobby than costs mean nothing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    I'm glad this thread has got past a brief snarky stage and has become peaceful again. It's actually caused me to reflect on what I expect from a camera!

    Because of its technical innovations slight to some, more important to others those who've posted here have naturally focused on the camera's electronic features like autofocus, EVF, presence/absence of image stabilization, etc. But while the tech specifications look promising, it still matters a lot to me how a camera feels in my hands. The 'RX2' would have to pass a feeling/fondling test. The sensor in my A7rII really impresses me and makes me interested in the new Sony as a constant-companion or carry-around camera to match my larger one. But I'd have to handle one to know.

    I've felt really really just right with only two cameras, M4 and Rollei TLR. These seemed custom-made (in their different ways) to match my eyes, hands, body, and points-of-view. The M4 in particular came to feel like a material extension of my body and vision.

    Turning to digital, I tried DSLRs and regarded them as functional but overbearing, looking and feeling like military-grade weaponry. Then everything changed when a friend suggested we have lunch so she could show me her new discovery, an M8. She predicted this would be the most expensive lunch I'd ever eaten. She was right I handled it and bonded.

    The M8/M9/MM/M-E have felt to me like slightly overweight versions of a perfect camera, perhaps because of years of muscle-memory about how to hold and use them and how to focus via rangefinder. And I've persisted with them beyond the point, perhaps, of financial sense and practicality, largely because they've felt right to me. I've recently tried other cameras (X100s and A7), but I couldn't get a feel for them. I fired the Fuji in happy little bursts but felt like I was blowing my sense of care and discipline. The A7 seemed good enough as long as I was deluded into thinking it would work well with most Leica lenses. But it never felt right to me.

    Now I'm using the A7rII for landscapes, on a tripod with L-bracket, MATE, and WATE, and a couple of other lenses. Thus encumbered, I suppose no camera feels too awkward, and what I love are the files. This is why I'd be interested in pairing it with an RX2. But the latter will have to fit my body, hand, and eye, well enough for me to stop missing Leicas.

    Maybe everyone else was assuming that these factors of feeling and bonding were part of the picture, but only those who've been using RX1s would know about these matters ahead of time.

    Kirk

    PS, Whoops, while I was writing this Guy got upset, below. Or was that tongue-in-cheek? I rather like Sonyista it has a prettier sound than Leicaphile.

    Please don't banish Godfrey he's already bowed out of this thread, and his posts and images are always interesting.
    Kirk I was never upset as much as some would think even worse being defensive. I don't like bait trolling and insults. I'm just following the rules in place. I know one thing for fact we see anyone write Leica fanboy my PM box lights up like a Christmas tree. Sonyvista in my mind is a insult and some members made comments to that effect. That's a instant rule violation.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  44. #194
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    Re: Rx1r2

    OK, I didn't appreciate what constitutes bad language. I should have said just that I personally took Sonyista to be more humorous than insulting.

    And if/when concerned about administrative matters in the future, I'll send a PM.

    Beg your pardon,

    K
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Here's a quote from the Imaging Resource preview that highlights another disadvantage of the pop-up viewfinder:

    "The new viewfinder also includes another feature which that on the RX100 IV lacks: A nice, soft rubber eyecup that helps shield stray light, letting you focus on the subject. This I wasn't quite so enamored with.

    Don't get me wrong: As I said, it's a really nice eyecup, and it answers a key complaint I had with the RX100 IV finder. The problem, though, is that you have to manually attach or detach it every time the finder is raised or lowered, something which is a little fiddly to do.

    And because the eyecup could easily catch on something and get lost, it's not just a matter of sliding it in place, either. You also have to tighten a small thumbscrew to affix the eyecup in place. (Although it's technically called a thumbscrew, I should note that it actually tightens -- and does so reasonably easily -- by rolling the tip of your index finger over it.)

    Once installed, I think the eyecup is a great addition to the Sony RX1R II's viewfinder. I have a feeling that I'd leave it in place most of the time, though, rather than fussing with removing and reinstalling it over and over. (And doing so means you lose the size advantage of a retractable finder.)"


    To me, it seems like the marketing and design departments have joined forces to claim a victory over any photographers working at the product development department. A permanent viewfinder would have resulted in a bump, a larger body, a smaller LCD or any combination of the three. So they chose to stay with the classic design and make a technically advanced, but rather fiddly solution instead. I think it's a mistake, for this is a camera that, if I were to buy it, I would probably want to live with for many years. I'm not sure that I would trust this viewfinder solution to last that long, but I may of course be wrong. Let's see when it appears in the shops.

    The complete preview is here:
    Sony RX1R II Review: Hands-On Preview

  46. #196
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I think as I age I don't adapt easily anymore.
    Bingo.

    But I try to stay a bit outside of my comfort zone. I don't feel like I need to "get" the form factor, the marketing image, brand name or style of a product in order to be interested in the possibilities it offers. Original NEX5? Thought it was sort of fugly and more than a little toylike but I liked the small size and big sensor enough to take it seriously.

    I think the RX1 looks pretty good. I'm having some problems wrapping my mind around the idea of paying $3300 for such a small thing. At the same time I wonder if it's the best 35mm lens that money can buy right now, matched to the sensor as it is, without compromising to fit a legacy lens mount. It's a "maybe" for me but no rush because I still like the A7 + 35/2.8 just fine, and RX1 is not going to slide into a cargo pants pocket any better. For now, the Ricoh GR still seems like best (cargo pants) pocketful of pixels.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    As a recovering Leicaholic (M9 and Q and too many M-lenses) I take no offense in Sonyista (have the A7IIr & Rx100IV). Cheer up, people
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    Re: Rx1r2

    When the Rx1 1st came out, it was a incredible marvel to me, and it came out of left field, we weren't expecting such a offering. I took a chance on it, high price tag and all. When I took possession of it and started shooting, it immediately felt right in my hand. Aperture is very easy to set, it has a iso button and the dial button for shutter speed, I found shooting in full manual very easy and I found I could adjust my settings very quickly. After running around the house and yard taking some awful and boring shots, I went to see the files on the monitor and my tongue dropped. I couldn't believe the fullness, the richness I was seeing in the Rx1 files. This camera inspired me to shoot, just to see how the images would come out, how the sensor and lens was rendering whatever my subject was. I thought then, and I still think today, the RX1 has some of the best IQ my eyes have seen. A lot of you don't know much about me, let me just say I have shot with a lot of systems in a lot of conditions, I have done many paid jobs and many freebies as well as my own photo adventures. I do it because I have a burn inside of my soul that must do it, I must press the shutter button, it is who I am.

    The Sony RX1 and I bonded and very quickly, it became a extension of my mind and hand. It also became the final nail in Canon's coffin for me, and I ran all of my Canon gear out the door. At that time I had no idea that there would be a A7, A7S, A7R, ect. All I knew is the IQ was so damn good, the RX1 basicly had ruined other cameras for me. As I used other systems such as my Micro 4/3rds, Fuji, Samsung, I would shoot images and always find myself wondering how that same image would have come out had I of shot it with the RX1.

    I have never been one to complain about a cameras limitations, rather I work with it. Those that may know me from the Micro 4/3rds forums would say that I always uploaded some quality images that I shot from the lowly, slow, clunky Olympus Epl1. I didn't complain, I went out and shot and learned how to get the most out of the camera body.

    The RX1 and me were love at 1st use. I took it everywhere with me, as it is small and so easy to carry, since I always had It I always seemed to get a good shot.






    Though I don't complain about a camera, I wondered how the upgrade would be for the RX1, the Worlds smallest compact full frame beast. Little did I know it wouldn't come for years. I found this camera so good I was going to buy a 2nd body and not use it much, in the event the 1st one broke. I was close to doing that several times but I always thought just buy the next version, surely Sony will release one. As time passed I gave up hope, I wound up with a A7, A7R MII, A7S, all very nice and I love them, but they all lack that mojo, that soul that the RX1 has, I know not all will agree with this, but this is how it is for me. The RX1 did everything for me, it has been my main body for a few paid weddings I did. I would read about its struggles in AF and in lowlight, I never encountered this, my RX1 can focus pretty easily and quickly enough in lowlight, in fact this is where I use it the most. I love how it renders in black and white also. I am not one that spends a ton of time in post, maybe 3-5 minute a image, I try and get my look right in camera.






    For me, shooting with a fixed lens 35mm improved my photography, I learned to see the world through a 35mm perspective, and zoom with my feet, I learned to compose better then I ever had before, I learned to do things and react to situations without thinking, if that makes sense. I learned to have fun, shooting with the RX1 is fun for me.



    a long exposure selfie I did, RX1 on a tripod, timer used on the shutter as I stood still in this laser room




    Night time and lowlight photography was fun, cool, it has a different look, not a lot do it, and the RX1 opened that door of creativity for me. I have shot a lot of cars in the darkness with the RX1.






    I am very excited about the upcoming RX1R II, the original RX1 to me was a cult classic, I don't know how I will bond with the new RX1R II, I suspect I will, I just knew over 3 years ago, I was buying this camera. This camera changed my photography, and that is powerful.
    the HepKitty
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  49. #199
    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Wow, that's escalated quickly !!

    Given the choice and knowing the + and -, I would jump more onto a classic RX1r than the new one. Just because of solidity and less moving parts. My justified fear is about the EVF and the tilt-screen. The EVF, one day, will not retract anymore or might suck dirts and dusts. The tilt screen might be broken pretty quickly. The basic RX1r would suit my needs more. This is just in the frame of my day use, not a generality.

    I just wish I can find 1.6 grand to offer me a simple RX1r
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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  50. #200
    Senior Member
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Given the choice and knowing the + and -, I would jump more onto a classic RX1r than the new one. Just because of solidity and less moving parts. My justified fear is about the EVF and the tilt-screen. The EVF, one day, will not retract anymore or might suck dirts and dusts. The tilt screen might be broken pretty quickly. The basic RX1r would suit my needs more. This is just in the frame of my day use, not a generality.
    I have a RX100 MIII, which uses the same retracting EVF. It works fine, but it is a rather flimsy construction. I am always very careful when pushing it back in and would not like to use that camera in dusty settings. The tilt screen, on the other hand, appears well constructed.

    This being said, I also have the RX1 (the old one). The RX1 is a great camera with one of the best 35mm lens money can buy and is solidly built, but I find it almost unusable without an external viewfinder. I tried an optical viewfinder, but it will not tell you about focus, so I have the electronic viewfinder. It is good, but also a rather flimsy construction with tiny contacts and a very fine hinge.

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