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Thread: Rx1r2

  1. #251
    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I think that the variable low pass filter is the most impressive new feature of the Rx1r2 and that this will end up rolled out across all future Sony cameras eventually.

    It will probably be of most use when shooting on a tripod, when you can shoot with the low pass filter fully on, on medium and off, then layer the images to get the best of both worlds. Or, with 42mp at hand, simply use the filter when shooting fine fabrics, etc and still end up with more real detail than a lower resolution camera with no equivalent technology.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    I still find the Sony RX1R MKII lighter of these two solutions. 12-40 F2.8 is as big if not bigger than the depth of the RX1R MKII for starters. And the Sony with the 42mp can allow cropping to cover other focal ranges.

    But certainly, if you don't like a prime and don't like 35mm, then the RX1's aren't for you. For me I am only thinking about it because of the cropping due to extra resolution. I prefer a 50mm focal. The first R1's you could so some of that but not to the extent of this one.

    The 2nd reason is I like shooting at night a lot and this bigger sensor would do better than the Oly's here. But still undecided. I will have to see how big the R1 really is when I see it. I saw the first once but it was some time ago.

    - Ricardo
    I have a very narrow camera knowledge base, but are we not comparing a FF 42MP fixed lens camera to a cropped sensor ILC?

    To me that is no comparison if I am correct. Even Sony experts say the fixed lens RXR camera line is superior to the A7 ILC from Sony.

  3. #253
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Just was looking at the specks and it does have the flash setting for wireless which looks like will work with the Nissin Flash and its commander. Whats the highest sync speed. I know its a leaf shutter but how high
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Whats the highest sync speed. I know its a leaf shutter but how high
    1/2000s, Guy. Perhaps its best feature.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    That just about put me over the edge right there. Luckily the next few months are my(me, I can actually put gear money aside from prying eyes) money months. I will sell my 35 1.4 and get this. I know I said it does not make the best business sense and looking back at the beginning of this thread 4 or 5 folks said no than ordered it. I maybe joining them. Here is the thing outside the extra 2000 dollars buying and selling the 35. 1.4

    Here are the Pros.

    Maybe the best 35mm lens i can get my hands on
    Exactly the same sensor as my A7rII so my files will be identical
    Same AF module built in
    Same uncompressed file
    I can use my current Nissin and my studio strobes
    Backup to my system
    Serve as my 35mm lens
    Serve as my get my *** out the door and go shoot. I actually need this one for my head. You get lazy after 40 years
    My vacation camera which when I bring my system I wind up never even using it. No excuse camera
    My grandson. Enough said
    One in the oven. Grandkid, sex unknown. LOL
    I never buy a camera for me personally , I have no real Guy toy its all business gear. Hard to explain
    One thing my system DOES NOT HAVE. A leaf shutter, thats freaking huge for me.
    Maybe even smaller than my single 35 1.4 lens



    Cons there is really only one that smacks me immediately cost. My ultimate answer to that. So how many lives do you have i get one not sure about anyone else. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  6. #256
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Guy, come on in, the waters fine here

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    Here are the Pros.

    Maybe the best 35mm lens i can get my hands on
    Exactly the same sensor as my A7rII so my files will be identical
    Same AF module built in
    Same uncompressed file
    I can use my current Nissin and my studio strobes
    Backup to my system
    Serve as my 35mm lens
    Serve as my get my *** out the door and go shoot. I actually need this one for my head. You get lazy after 40 years
    My vacation camera which when I bring my system I wind up never even using it. No excuse camera
    My grandson. Enough said
    One in the oven. Grandkid, sex unknown. LOL
    I never buy a camera for me personally , I have no real Guy toy its all business gear. Hard to explain
    One thing my system DOES NOT HAVE. A leaf shutter, thats freaking huge for me.
    Maybe even smaller than my single 35 1.4 lens



    Cons there is really only one that smacks me immediately cost. My ultimate answer to that. So how many lives do you have i get one not sure about anyone else. ROTFLMAO
    yup to all of those especially the "never buy a camera for me personally" ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    A lot of the discussion of the RX1r seems to be about the price. Well think of it this way. Suppose you lived in some northern latitude and wanted to buy a motorcycle. Odds are you'll most like take the bike out on one or possibly both days on the weekend during a season that runs, say, from May until October.

    The cost of that bike could set you back at LEAST $5-7K and it will be a basic bike at best. Any motorcycle in the same league as the RX1r is to other cameras would run you around $13K

    Yet for $3300 you'll have a top if the line tool you can use 365 days a year. No gas. No annual maintenance and oil change. No kidding.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.

  8. #258
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Ok, let's talk cars, boats or country/golf club memberships - the Sony RX1R II will still be cheaper per shot vs any of those.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  9. #259
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    So when is this out in the wild.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    Here are the Pros.

    Maybe the best 35mm lens i can get my hands on
    Although I like the RX1RII for what it is, it is a sad indictment on the Sony lens line that this is probably the best 2/35 you can get your hands on.

    Sure the 1.4/35 is stellar but it is also very large compared to the body. Likewise, you can get the Loxia which is excellent but it is MF which I suspect is inconvenient for working pros in certain situations.

    Do Sony really think a decent 2/35 is going to eat their RX1RII sales?

    Either Sony or Zeiss need to break ranks and give us a proper Batis or Sony G 2/35.

    LouisB
    Last edited by biglouis; 24th October 2015 at 01:17. Reason: Change AF to MF about Loxia

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Although I like the RX1RII for what it is, it is a sad indictment on the Sony lens line that this is probably the best 2/35 you can get your hands on.

    Sure the 1.4/35 is stellar but it is also very large compared to the body. Likewise, you can get the Loxia which is excellent but it is AF which I suspect is inconvenient for working pros in certain situations.

    Do Sony really think a decent 2/35 is going to eat their RX1RII sales?

    Either Sony or Zeiss need to break ranks and give us a proper Batis or Sony G 2/35.

    LouisB
    Louis I know you mean the Loxia is MF, but I am highlighting that for those who might not know.
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  12. #262
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Although I like the RX1RII for what it is, it is a sad indictment on the Sony lens line that this is probably the best 2/35 you can get your hands on.

    Sure the 1.4/35 is stellar but it is also very large compared to the body. Likewise, you can get the Loxia which is excellent but it is AF which I suspect is inconvenient for working pros in certain situations.

    Do Sony really think a decent 2/35 is going to eat their RX1RII sales?

    Either Sony or Zeiss need to break ranks and give us a proper Batis or Sony G 2/35.

    LouisB

    Maybe "indictment" is a bit harsh, but I agree with your basic sentiment.

    Here

    LensRentals.com - Sony E Mount Lens Optical Bench Tests

    is an interesting IMHO blog post by Roger Cicala that puts focus on lens copy variation of Canon, Nikon, and Sony. So, for the time being, maybe the RX1RII is the best choice anyway.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 24th October 2015 at 02:02.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    May be tricky to mount a RX1r2 on both my A7r2 and A7s2.

    So that is a downside for me.

    And my 35/1.4 is sweet as summer melon.

    But, what a camera the RX1r2 is !

    I want one just to want one.

    -Bill
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  14. #264
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    May be tricky to mount a RX1r2 on both my A7r2 and A7s2.

    So that is a downside for me.

    And my 35/1.4 is sweet as summer melon.

    But, what a camera the RX1r2 is !

    I want one just to want one.

    -Bill

    Bill, Congratulations on your 35/1.4.
    Maybe you should let Roger test it so that he finally gets to see a really good copy.
    Of course, what Roger also could find is that the in-camera processing covers up most of the problems he finds when measuring just the lens.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    there is no comparison to the A7R II and 35/1.4.

    The 35/2 on the RX1R is supreme. We have to wait for the new camera but it'll still be the supreme 35/2, but that isn't a 35/1.4. just appreciate the differences. I can live with the 35/2 leaf shutter fixed camera.

    btw, it's already superb on the existing RX1 versions, RX1R in my case.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    I have a very narrow camera knowledge base, but are we not comparing a FF 42MP fixed lens camera to a cropped sensor ILC?

    To me that is no comparison if I am correct. Even Sony experts say the fixed lens RXR camera line is superior to the A7 ILC from Sony.
    We were talking about a solution of going small - fixed prime lens or otherwise.

    - Ricardo

  17. #267
    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    Here are the Pros.

    Exactly the same sensor as my A7rII so my files will be identical


    Time will tell but this might prove NOT to be true at all. You might find and I personally hope this is the case, that the Rx1r II's IQ is superior to the IQ of the A7R II.

    The A7 has the same sensor as the original Rx1, and no matter what lens I put on my A7, it just doesn't have the magic and special look to the files that the Rx1 does.

    Sony hit a MAJOR homerun with the original which to me is a cult classic now, hopefully Sony hits a GRANDSLAM with this update.

    I have not pre-ordered, I plan on sitting on the sidelines and seeing/hearing feedback from those to get in 1st. I value all's opinions, I just can't fathom major issues, IQ issues with the Rx1r, but I guess you never know. But I have cash in hand ready to buy on a seconds notice, I will be surprised if this camera winds up on long waiting lists like the Zeiss Batis lenses or even the A7R when it 1st came out. Many don't want to pay 3k for a fixed focal length. Though that is what is going to make these files special I expect, as they are in the original.

    The Rx1r II will be a incredible powerhouse with cutting edge class leading IQ that will fit in the palm of your hand, and you might find that you take it everywhere, as it is so easy to carry and use.

    You probably wouldn't drag your A7R II with the 35mm Zeiss f/1.4 everywhere you go, but you might the tiny and mighty Rx1r II and not give up a thing in regards to IQ. Imagine the worlds most powerful compact, in the palm of your hand, so easy to carry and use in full manual, and all you have to bring is your creativity that the Lord has blessed you with.

    the HepKitty
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  18. #268
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Better is always welcome for sure. It can't be worse is my thinking out of the gate.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Rx1r2

    This is starting to look like a long advert for Sony. I am looking at <€1500 new RX-1 units which were put on sale with a price tag of >€3400 just a few months back (some shops still have the original sale price!).

    I will wait for the prices to mellow a bit. I just wish there will be gradual drops and not the plummet we saw in the RX1 ( Sony take notice! ).


    Not in a hurry at all.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Whatever happened to the 'curved' sensor that Sony had been working on.

    I thought for sure it would be in this iteration of the RX1 series because, as I understand it, it would have made it possible (with optimization for the curved sensor, of course) for Zeiss to fashion the 35mm f2.0 lens into a 35mm f1.8 without increasing the size of the lens that's mounted on the body.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
    My job is to capture them.
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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That just about put me over the edge right there. Luckily the next few months are my(me, I can actually put gear money aside from prying eyes) money months. I will sell my 35 1.4 and get this. I know I said it does not make the best business sense and looking back at the beginning of this thread 4 or 5 folks said no than ordered it. I maybe joining them. Here is the thing outside the extra 2000 dollars buying and selling the 35. 1.4

    Here are the Pros.

    Maybe the best 35mm lens i can get my hands on
    Exactly the same sensor as my A7rII so my files will be identical
    Same AF module built in
    Same uncompressed file
    I can use my current Nissin and my studio strobes
    Backup to my system
    Serve as my 35mm lens
    Serve as my get my *** out the door and go shoot. I actually need this one for my head. You get lazy after 40 years
    My vacation camera which when I bring my system I wind up never even using it. No excuse camera
    My grandson. Enough said
    One in the oven. Grandkid, sex unknown. LOL
    I never buy a camera for me personally , I have no real Guy toy its all business gear. Hard to explain
    One thing my system DOES NOT HAVE. A leaf shutter, thats freaking huge for me.
    Maybe even smaller than my single 35 1.4 lens



    Cons there is really only one that smacks me immediately cost. My ultimate answer to that. So how many lives do you have i get one not sure about anyone else. ROTFLMAO

    I will be selling my Rx1R and purchasing this because of everything listed here.
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Bill, Congratulations on your 35/1.4.
    Maybe you should let Roger test it so that he finally gets to see a really good copy.
    Of course, what Roger also could find is that the in-camera processing covers up most of the problems he finds when measuring just the lens.
    I have no idea if I have a good copy. LOL

    Nor do I put much stock in Rogers testing. He is looking at one facet of one part of a complex image chain. Even DXOMark is more relevant as at least they are looking at both sensor and lens together.

    It turns out that I always use my sensor and lens together.

    Plus, I care about bokeh, color, speed of focus, OIS, whether AF or not, weight, price, size and many other lens qualities. And I care about how an image looks on my phone, iPad, monitor and printed on various papers and with various processing effects and at various sizes.

    So the lens tests I like are the ones I do. The next best, for me, are the photos I see taken with the same lens I have or want. Next best is reading the opinions of photographers whose work I like or whose opinions I trust.

    With Roger's tests, I have no idea how his test results may or may not affect my image chain. It may be that the variability he reports is completely irrelevant to any image I would ever take. I expect this is the case frankly.

    Having said all that ...

    My RX1 remains my top choice, all-time, for any 35mm lens. I only wish it weren't connected to a body with such lousy AF.

    Enter the seductive RX1r2. She is a sly beast. Her promise of endless IQ and the bounty of being forever mated to the word's most desirable sensor is a siren song destined to pull me ever closer. Closer ... Closer ...

    -Bill
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    Re: Rx1r2

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    I took my Rx1r to Moscow and St Petersburg last year and it was perfect for the trip, including street shooting!! Fit in my jacket pocket . I may have to sell some equipment and get the Rx1rII! Camera is sooo discrete. Also I might add that the 35mm f2 lens is stunning wide open! Eleanor
    Last edited by eleanorbrown; 24th October 2015 at 08:55.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Find a buyer for my RX1r, check.
    Funds in order, check.
    Two weeks to go, aaargh...

    Can't wait to get this camera. I never really got on with the old EVF, only using it when I absolutely had to. So fiddly. And the lack of flip-screen was a major impediment to me since those screens on other cameras permanently changed the way I shoot. Now these indispensable features have been properly corrected and added to just oodles of bleeding-edge tech and I. AM. PSYCHED.

    btw, I noticed that Sony is ditching that statement-level RX1 lens cap and the new one is the current plastic model from all other lenses. I don't use them myself but must say that thing was a befitting touch. Sheesh...

  26. #276
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I have to say that I enjoyed shooting my RX1r a lot. Just a nice camera to work with. In the end I felt like I needed a little better AF and ideally IBIS. If this camera had IBIS I'd order it up, but I suppose the sensor is good enough that you can just shoot faster shutter and push iso up. It certainly is a different experience than A7 with 35/2.8.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    I have no idea if I have a good copy. LOL

    Nor do I put much stock in Rogers testing. He is looking at one facet of one part of a complex image chain. Even DXOMark is more relevant as at least they are looking at both sensor and lens together.

    It turns out that I always use my sensor and lens together.
    To critical reader Roger's testing and dxomark agree 1:1 on the FE 35/1.4 ZA in sharpness comparison to competition from Sigma. Sigma 35/1.4 is way sharper throughout the frame on open apertures (dxomark link below) and even stopping down the 2x more expensive Sony never catches the Sigma. Sony is not a bad lens, it matches Nikon 35/1.4 both in Roger's test and dxo, but the Sigma Art (and new Canon L as it is neck to neck with Sigma) are on way another level in terms of sharpness. For any normal person any of these lenses provide superbly sharp results (and with A7R II it is sharper than any FF camera+ 35 mm lens combo was before 36 MP Sensors came out), but as enthusiasts in a gear forum we tend to be interested on how these products stack against each other in different qualities.

    Check dxo link below for comparison of Sony, Nikon & Sigma in 36 MP AA-filterless bodies. Click Measurements => Sharpness => Profiles for sharpness graphs, there really is no contest.

    Sony Carl Zeiss Distagon T* FE 35mm F1.4 ZA on Sony A7R vs Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 35mm f/1.4G on Nikon D810 vs Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM A Nikon on Nikon D810

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    Plus, I care about bokeh, color, speed of focus, OIS, whether AF or not, weight, price, size and many other lens qualities. And I care about how an image looks on my phone, iPad, monitor and printed on various papers and with various processing effects and at various sizes.
    In many of these areas Sony shines. I like colors from Sony Zeiss generally much better than the others, the bokeh is arguably best in 35/1.4 ZA (drop sharpness and nice/smooth bokeh becomes easier to achieve) and for example for environmental portraits Sensor-focusing Sony with Eye-AF murders the competition in focus accuracy/repeatability.

    Then again, personally I see no reason to combat a tester's credibility if one does not care about what is tested in said test. Roger Cicala is as credible as tester's go. His/Lensrental's testing provides hugely valuable and unique data to photo community as things like copy variance are tested practically nowhere else.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    To critical reader Roger's testing and dxomark agree 1:1 on the FE 35/1.4 ZA in sharpness comparison to competition from Sigma. Sigma 35/1.4 is way sharper throughout the frame on open apertures (dxomark link below) and even stopping down the 2x more expensive Sony never catches the Sigma. Sony is not a bad lens, it matches Nikon 35/1.4 both in Roger's test and dxo, but the Sigma Art (and new Canon L as it is neck to neck with Sigma) are on way another level in terms of sharpness. For any normal person any of these lenses provide superbly sharp results (and with A7R II it is sharper than any FF camera+ 35 mm lens combo was before 36 MP Sensors came out), but as enthusiasts in a gear forum we tend to be interested on how these products stack against each other in different qualities.

    Check dxo link below for comparison of Sony, Nikon & Sigma in 36 MP AA-filterless bodies. Click Measurements => Sharpness => Profiles for sharpness graphs, there really is no contest.

    Sony Carl Zeiss Distagon T* FE 35mm F1.4 ZA on Sony A7R vs Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 35mm f/1.4G on Nikon D810 vs Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM A Nikon on Nikon D810


    In many of these areas Sony shines. I like colors from Sony Zeiss generally much better than the others, the bokeh is arguably best in 35/1.4 ZA (drop sharpness and nice/smooth bokeh becomes easier to achieve) and for example for environmental portraits Sensor-focusing Sony with Eye-AF murders the competition in focus accuracy/repeatability.

    Then again, personally I see no reason to combat a tester's credibility if one does not care about what is tested in said test. Roger Cicala is as credible as tester's go. His/Lensrental's testing provides hugely valuable and unique data to photo community as things like copy variance are tested practically nowhere else.
    Digilloyd is credible but I don't put much stock in his reviews either.

    He is not testing what I care about.

    Roger's variance testing is mildly interesting but if it does not affect my images then I am not going to put much stock in it.

    Is he credible? I have no idea. If his tests are unique and his scale of variance is arbitrary or close to it how do I know if he is credible? I assume he is but I don't actually care because I don't see the relevance of his testing to my shooting.

    I put more weight on DXOMark but not by much. They also have mystical formulations which make it hard to understand exactly what is being tested.

    However, at least they test both camera and lens together. I believe they find the 90/2.8 to be more exceptional than Roger does so I am not sure they are in such lock step agreement after all.

    Back to Diglloyd, I don't put much stock in his reviews because he does not shoot anything remotely like I do. But, I trust him more than Roger or DXOMark because at least he is showing a ton of high resolution images. Pretty much always the same alpine tree or building in Palo Alto but at least they are real images.

    Let me say, if Guy says he has found a 'look' lens I put more stock in that one word than I do in all Roger's and Digilloyd's testing added together times ten.

    Hopefully that clarifies that I am not making any personal attack. Roger is a physician, so am I. He is a geek. I have an advanced degree from Cal Tech and used to design rockets. I get it that this is his thing. I am happy for him.

    I will continue to value images over tests and to value the opinions of a few over more tests.

    Finally, I will make my own judgment about what works for me.

    Frankly, at that point being told my lens has a variance of 6.9 or a DXOMark score of 32 or a gut-buster nitro rating of 9/10 means pretty much zip to me.

    Nothing personal. I don't have the time for that.

    -Bill
    Last edited by ohnri; 24th October 2015 at 17:52.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post

    Roger's variance testing is mildly interesting but if it does not affect my images then I am not going to put much stock in it.
    I agree.
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I just finished reading this whole thread, and have decided that the Rx1R2 is my next camera. Reading this forced me to think carefully about what I need in a hand held camera, and this seems to fit the bill. My A7r is a fine camera, but it is clear that I tend not to take it along with me often enough, as I just don't want to strap a camera on my shoulder all the time. This camera seems to be one that I will reach for and carry.
    Some have said that the 35mm is not quite the right focal length, but for me personally the 28mm is too wide- a shame to be cropping the edges too often.
    I have various Leica lenses on the A7r, but for taking rapid pictures of people on the go, I have come to find rapid autofocus is a must- otherwise too many shots that are just out of focus!
    I have owned the Leica M9 and Fuji XE-1 previously; I loved the monochrome mode the XE-1 had, but the autofocus was not good.
    Does anyone know if the new Rx1R2 will have a monochrome mode, with both viewfinder and jpeg images in black and white?

  31. #281
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    Re: Rx1r2

    I switched from Canon to m4/3 some time ago. Latest iteration with omdem5m2, 12-40,40-150 + some more lenses looked great considering I am not shooting professionally. I rented rx1r for a week for a trip to Las Vegas. I came back with three thousand images, about third of them is taken with sony. I have a major problem with color consistency of oly images. It is especially visible with blue colors of sky. I spent several nights already and still cannot get it right.
    Rx1r on other hand was just perfect. Skies were blue and colors were right right out of the camera (I shot raw+jpeg). I still worked with raw, but I could have just cropped jpegs and be done with it.

    I expect nothing less from rx1r2. I held it in hands today; viewfinder is less than perfect but still better than original one, tilting screen is great. If 35mm is your thing this is a perfect camera.

    I also held Q. Controls are great, but size and ergonomics are just wrong. If I was ever presented with a choice to select either one I would go with rx1r2 without any doubt.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    Digilloyd is credible but I don't put much stock in his reviews either.

    He is not testing what I care about.

    Roger's variance testing is mildly interesting but if it does not affect my images then I am not going to put much stock in it.

    Is he credible? I have no idea. If his tests are unique and his scale of variance is arbitrary or close to it how do I know if he is credible? I assume he is but I don't actually care because I don't see the relevance of his testing to my shooting.

    I put more weight on DXOMark but not by much. They also have mystical formulations which make it hard to understand exactly what is being tested.

    However, at least they test both camera and lens together. I believe they find the 90/2.8 to be more exceptional than Roger does so I am not sure they are in such lock step agreement after all.

    Back to Diglloyd, I don't put much stock in his reviews because he does not shoot anything remotely like I do. But, I trust him more than Roger or DXOMark because at least he is showing a ton of high resolution images. Pretty much always the same alpine tree or building in Palo Alto but at least they are real images.

    Let me say, if Guy says he has found a 'look' lens I put more stock in that one word than I do in all Roger's and Digilloyd's testing added together times ten.

    Hopefully that clarifies that I am not making any personal attack. Roger is a physician, so am I. He is a geek. I have an advanced degree from Cal Tech and used to design rockets. I get it that this is his thing. I am happy for him.

    I will continue to value images over tests and to value the opinions of a few over more tests.

    Finally, I will make my own judgment about what works for me.

    Frankly, at that point being told my lens has a variance of 6.9 or a DXOMark score of 32 or a gut-buster nitro rating of 9/10 means pretty much zip to me.

    Nothing personal. I don't have the time for that.

    -Bill

    Thank you Bill and in all honesty your correct. I have many issues with Lloyd but I won't go there . Roger seems like a nice guy with good intentions. He is a geek and he knows it and I like that honesty. I just have a great feel for lenses and I appreciate that comment very much.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  33. #283
    Member karlfoto's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Looks interesting, but a bit over priced. I realise it is a niche product.

    Has anyone successfully mated a 2x tele convertor to this lens on the older RX1 bodies?

    Thanx
    Karl

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothjazz View Post
    Does anyone know if the new Rx1R2 will have a monochrome mode, with both viewfinder and jpeg images in black and white?
    I have absolutely no doubt it will. It's the way I have my a6000 set up.

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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by olegkin View Post
    I held it in hands today; viewfinder is less than perfect but still better than original one, tilting screen is great.
    I did not think much of that (EVF) but it is good to know it is better than the pricey/add on!

  36. #286
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Done Rx1r up for sale this forum.
    Mike

    website under construction
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    Re: Rx1r2

    As I wait for the release of the Rx1r II, here is a shot from my original Rx1.


    Horse Springs New Mexico.



    The Rx1 went with me to every ghost town we could find in New Mexico.
    the HepKitty
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  38. #288
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    As I wait for the release of the Rx1r II, here is a shot from my original Rx1.


    Horse Springs New Mexico.



    The Rx1 went with me to every ghost town we could find in New Mexico.
    I love the little cross on the front. It is close enough to a Red Cross that it evokes a feeling of first aid and spiritual aid together.

    Two of my favorite things, in one place.

    Stunning blue skies and fluffy white clouds a bonus.

    Oh, and ghosts. Always a plus.

    -Bill
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  39. #289
    Senior Member eleanorbrown's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Im hearing Roger's name. Regarding testing..?Who is he and does he have a web site? Thanks, Eleanor

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    I have no idea if I have a good copy. LOL

    Nor do I put much stock in Rogers testing. He is looking at one facet of one part of a complex image chain. Even DXOMark is more relevant as at least they are looking at both sensor and lens together.

    It turns out that I always use my sensor and lens together.

    Plus, I care about bokeh, color, speed of focus, OIS, whether AF or not, weight, price, size and many other lens qualities. And I care about how an image looks on my phone, iPad, monitor and printed on various papers and with various processing effects and at various sizes.

    So the lens tests I like are the ones I do. The next best, for me, are the photos I see taken with the same lens I have or want. Next best is reading the opinions of photographers whose work I like or whose opinions I trust.

    With Roger's tests, I have no idea how his test results may or may not affect my image chain. It may be that the variability he reports is completely irrelevant to any image I would ever take. I expect this is the case frankly.

    Having said all that ...

    My RX1 remains my top choice, all-time, for any 35mm lens. I only wish it weren't connected to a body with such lousy AF.

    Enter the seductive RX1r2. She is a sly beast. Her promise of endless IQ and the bounty of being forever mated to the word's most desirable sensor is a siren song destined to pull me ever closer. Closer ... Closer ...

    -Bill

  40. #290
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by eleanorbrown View Post
    Im hearing Roger's name. Regarding testing..?Who is he and does he have a web site? Thanks, Eleanor

    LensRentals.com - Photo/video thoughts from the largest rental house

    The Online Photographer: Roger Cicala's Nine Commandments

    I am really impressed by his work and blog.
    He generates unique information.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 25th October 2015 at 09:36.
    With best regards, K-H.
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  41. #291
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Very Optimistic price, even by EU standards!
    Don't buy it then. It includes the EVF and grip.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  42. #292
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    Re: Rx1r2

    So now we're doing remote price policing?

    Sometimes it's okay to omit a thought from our discourse.

  43. #293
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Let's avoid comments on sale pricing. It can affect a sale but sending a PM to a member to try and help them is a nice gesture.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  44. #294
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    Re: Rx1r2

    thanks for the comment i made some changes
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: Rx1r2

    I looked at the LensRentals lens evaluation blog, but I don't know, when you get into the details of MTF charts or other bench testing, my eyes start to glaze over. The Sony bench test seemed sooo complicated to set up, making me wonder if it is valid in the same way as a lens mounted on the camera. Best way to test the lenses is just to rent them and use them for a few days. In that regard, LensRentals is a great service. I plan to try renting on Otus lens, just to see what it is like. They even rent infrared converted cameras.

  46. #296
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    Re: Rx1r2

    The general wisdom was, lenses are for the long term, cameras are consumables.
    Well, I wonder whether that is still true, considering the fairly new practice of in camera lens corrections for ILC systems.
    Of course, this doesn't matter for the Rx1r2 with its builtin lens.
    BTW, what is the reparability and expected useful lifespan of this camera?
    With best regards, K-H.
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  47. #297
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    The general wisdom was, lenses are for the long term, cameras are consumables.
    Well, I wonder whether that is still true, considering the fairly new practice of in camera lens corrections for ILC systems.
    Of course, this doesn't matter for the Rx1r2 with its builtin lens.
    BTW, what is the reparability and expected useful lifespan of this camera?
    Interesting point. Hopefully, at least within one camera ecosystem there won't be too much planned lens obsolescence.

    I feel that Sony is doing a credible job of preserving value in their A mount lenses.

    I expect a decade or so of repairs on the RX1 cameras. It's not like Sony will fix old Walkman's or Betamax players. Old electronics are just not easily repaired. Once the parts are eventually gone no one is going to fabricate them again as the ancient technology won't even exist.

    Hmm, that may apply to modern lenses as well.

    Okay, time to get a CLA on my Leica IIIa.

    Oh, wait, silly me, my iPhone 22 will probably crush my Stone Age 42MP A7r2 under its sleek, oh-so-sexy boots.

    -Bill
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  48. #298
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    Interesting point. Hopefully, at least within one camera ecosystem there won't be too much planned lens obsolescence.

    I feel that Sony is doing a credible job of preserving value in their A mount lenses.

    I expect a decade or so of repairs on the RX1 cameras. It's not like Sony will fix old Walkman's or Betamax players. Old electronics are just not easily repaired. Once the parts are eventually gone no one is going to fabricate them again as the ancient technology won't even exist.

    Hmm, that may apply to modern lenses as well.

    Okay, time to get a CLA on my Leica IIIa.

    Oh, wait, silly me, my iPhone 22 will probably crush my Stone Age 42MP A7r2 under its sleek, oh-so-sexy boots.

    -Bill

    Yup, Bill, you may well be right.
    No doubt, the iPhone 22 controlled by your brain waves.
    I had a slightly different reaction and just bought another R lens.
    With best regards, K-H.
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  49. #299
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    Whatever happened to the 'curved' sensor that Sony had been working on.

    I thought for sure it would be in this iteration of the RX1 series because, as I understand it, it would have made it possible (with optimization for the curved sensor, of course) for Zeiss to fashion the 35mm f2.0 lens into a 35mm f1.8 without increasing the size of the lens that's mounted on the body.
    I was going to raise the same question.
    Perhaps it still needed more work or was not yielding the improvements hoped for yet?

  50. #300
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Rx1r2

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Here are the Pros.

    Serve as my get my *** out the door and go shoot. I actually need this one for my head. You get lazy after 40 years
    My vacation camera which when I bring my system I wind up never even using it. No excuse camera
    I never buy a camera for me personally , I have no real Guy toy its all business gear. Hard to explain

    Cons there is really only one that smacks me immediately cost. My ultimate answer to that. So how many lives do you have i get one not sure about anyone else. ROTFLMAO
    These are the ones that ring for me in your list.
    The little Ricoh GR fills these rolls a lot of the time but at times I'd like a bit more IQ and 35mm.
    The third one needs no explanation, but luckily I don't have to work with any of mine.

    I am even considering the RX1r as a compromise on the cost.

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