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Thread: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

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    Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New α Cameras!!!! | sonyalpharumors

    Before the end of the year, all A7 cameras will be firmware updated to offer 14bit lossless compressed & uncompressed raws (that will obviously boost their performance by a considerable margin)... At a fraction of the cost, an A7Rii on Cambo Actus (or Arca Universallis) will be able to directly rival for IQ any MFDB/view camera combination by at least 95%... It seems that even the most resistant MFDB "castles" for serious photography are under major attack that will lead to further shrinkage of the MF market... and since IQ of FF sensor improves at a faster rate than the MF ones, I don't see how the market situation may reverse or even stabilize...
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New α Cameras!!!! | sonyalpharumors

    Before the end of the year, all A7 cameras will be firmware updated to offer 14bit lossless compressed & uncompressed raws (that will obviously boost their performance by a considerable margin)... At a fraction of the cost, an A7Rii on Cambo Actus (or Arca Universallis) will be able to directly rival for IQ any MFDB/view camera combination by at least 95%... It seems that even the most resistant MFDB "castles" for serious photography are under major attack that will lead to further shrinkage of the MF market... and since IQ of FF sensor improves at a faster rate than the MF ones, I don't see how the market situation may reverse or even stabilize...
    Wow, that is awesome news. Thanks so much for posting here, great to know these things well before they happen so we can be prepared for the great things to come. Even better that this can now be quantified, 93% was my hope, but 95% is even better.

    Thanks again, and please keep up your great work.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New α Cameras!!!! | sonyalpharumors

    Before the end of the year, all A7 cameras will be firmware updated to offer 14bit lossless compressed & uncompressed raws (that will obviously boost their performance by a considerable margin)... At a fraction of the cost, an A7Rii on Cambo Actus (or Arca Universallis) will be able to directly rival for IQ any MFDB/view camera combination by at least 95%... It seems that even the most resistant MFDB "castles" for serious photography are under major attack that will lead to further shrinkage of the MF market... and since IQ of FF sensor improves at a faster rate than the MF ones, I don't see how the market situation may reverse or even stabilize...
    Is this old or new news?
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Wow, that is awesome news. Thanks so much for posting here, great to know these things well before they happen so we can be prepared for the great things to come. Even better that this can now be quantified, 93% was my hope, but 95% is even better.

    Thanks again, and please keep up your great work.
    It can't be quantified, one thinks what he will miss and what he will gain and judges accordingly by his own needs... The saying "95%" is used instead of saying "there's very little difference than what one can achieve if he spends a great deal more"...
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    I'm so tired of reading posts like this here and on LuLa. The same people with an axe to grind claiming that the sky is falling; pushing their own dogmatic stance on things as if they're the world authority on all things photography.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Is this old or new news?
    Old news by 2 weeks or so.

    But still good news for the A7rII for sure.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Old news by 2 weeks or so.

    But still good news for the A7rII for sure.

    Paul

    Thanks Paul. That's what I thought.
    In 2 days we can update the A7r2.
    A7s2 will come with 14 bits.

    I don't think other cameras for 14 bit updates have been announced, have they? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    I'm sure we'll have uncompressed RAW, but lossless compressed RAW too ?
    Bart ...
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Paul. That's what I thought.
    In 2 days we can update the A7r2.
    A7s2 will come with 14 bits.

    I don't think other cameras for 14 bit updates have been announced, have they? TIA.
    It's a huge move for Sony, and I am surprised they left it off in the first place, as in a "we know more of what you need than you do". The differences in spectral highlights, is most impressive. If Sony adds the mulit-shot later on to the A7rII or a new camera then things get very interesting. From the shots I have seen from the Olympus, I can only imagine what Sony could capture?

    Paul

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Old news by 2 weeks or so.

    But still good news for the A7rII for sure.

    Paul
    This is news from a few weeks ago. The news is more about "lossless" RAW rather than "uncompressed" RAW. In fact, ideally you'd have lossless AND compressed.

    Still very good news for Sony, and I hope they release it for the A7R as well.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    It's a huge move for Sony, and I am surprised they left it off in the first place, as in a "we know more of what you need than you do". The differences in spectral highlights, is most impressive. If Sony adds the mulit-shot later on to the A7rII or a new camera then things get very interesting. From the shots I have seen from the Olympus, I can only imagine what Sony could capture?

    Paul
    True... multishot could complete the story... there is a rumor that Sony will enter the "true color" world by using a different approach where the bayer pattern filter will be moved into different positions instead of moving the sensor... If that happens and one can use a "true color" A7 on a mini view camera, I don't see how pros would invest more for their still photography on an MFDB & view camera combo... Especially if the MFDB would be a single shot one of interpolated color at a much higher cost that would lead at inferior quality...
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    This is news from a few weeks ago. The news is more about "lossless" RAW rather than "uncompressed" RAW. In fact, ideally you'd have lossless AND compressed.

    Still very good news for Sony, and I hope they release it for the A7R as well.
    Thanks for pointing that out. You are correct. I confused the two annoucements. Can't keep up.

    Paul

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    True... multishot could complete the story... there is a rumor that Sony will enter the "true color" world by using a different approach where the bayer pattern filter will be moved into different positions instead of moving the sensor... If that happens and one can use a "true color" A7 on a mini view camera, I don't see how pros would invest more for their still photography on an MFDB & view camera combo... Especially if the MFDB would be a single shot one of interpolated color at a much higher cost that would lead at inferior quality...
    Wow, just wow! Simply brilliant! When "True Color" is out, do you think we can get even beyond 95% of MFDB performance, do you think we could get close to 98%? I'd say that's the holy grail for me to give my IQ180 to my wife to replace her iPhone 5s.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Thanks for pointing that out. You are correct. I confused the two annoucements. Can't keep up.

    Paul
    I know...between the rumours and the actual press releases, and of course, which cameras would get the updates, things were a little confusing.

    Based on what I've seen, I am hoping we can push files in C1 a little more. Will be interesting to see how LCC corrections behave better with tech lenses if the files are more "malleable".

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Moderators: Can this speculative thread please be moved to the Sony section where it belongs?
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Is this old or new news?
    Considering the link is to an article dated sept 15th, I believe old news is the appropriate description.

    Hasn't it been stated the a7r2 update will be released on the 19th?

    As far as rivaling a MFDB, no argument the sensor resolution is impressive and if I can stitch quality might rival it, but personally I'm stitching a full frame 645 sensor, I don't want to have to take 3 times as many shots to get the same thing. And often I can get what I want with 1 shot, or simple 2 shot stitch. So for me, no it doesn't come close to rivaling a MFDB.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Hi,

    In a way an interesting question. I would see it in the context of comparison with the 50 MP backs using Sony's sensor. Both offer live view. The full frame CCD sensors live in another division. There is a 27% difference in linear size between the sensor of the A7rII and say IQ-250 back. That essentially means it needs a 27% better lens than the camera sporting the IQ-250. This may be achieveable. There are quite a few lenses out there doing a very good job.

    Now, if we go go up to full frame to 645, the difference grows to 65% in linear size. Assuming decent lenses on the 645 it would be almost impossible for 24x36 to catch up. On the top end full frame MFDs are often used with technical cameras.

    Another question is if the nimble A7rII can do things that needed MFD before. That may be quite true in many cases. The flange distance of the A7rII makes it usable as a miniature technical camera, either with T&S adapters (like Hartblei Master TS) or small view cameras. Here the A7rII may gain points with better live view and vibration less shutter options. Also it obviously offers motion at low cost.

    Regarding the 14 bit lossless raw stuff, it is wellcome but don't really change anything. Quite a few photographers shoot happily with the A7r. In rare cases the compression artefacts may show up, but star tracks is not the most common subject.

    It may be possible for Sony to fix multishot on the A7rII or some other models using the movable sensor, but I wouldn't count on it. Sony has some patents on doing multishot in hardware and that may the way they may go.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    Considering the link is to an article dated sept 15th, I believe old news is the appropriate description.

    Hasn't it been stated the a7r2 update will be released on the 19th?

    As far as rivaling a MFDB, no argument the sensor resolution is impressive and if I can stitch quality might rival it, but personally I'm stitching a full frame 645 sensor, I don't want to have to take 3 times as many shots to get the same thing. And often I can get what I want with 1 shot, or simple 2 shot stitch. So for me, no it doesn't come close to rivaling a MFDB.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Hi,

    Why? The question says Sony rivals MFDB so it is clearly MFD related and folks use A7rII for things they used to use MFD for?

    Moderators are not censors.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Moderators: Can this speculative thread please be moved to the Sony section where it belongs?

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Wow, just wow! Simply brilliant! When "True Color" is out, do you think we can get even beyond 95% of MFDB performance, do you think we could get close to 98%? I'd say that's the holy grail for me to give my IQ180 to my wife to replace her iPhone 5s.
    Your IQ 180 is already inferior than any "true color" (multishot) MFDB for still work with a view camera. If the Sony sensor will be offered in a "true color" (multishot) version and combined with a mini view camera (like the Actus is), the results won't be up to 98% of an IQ 180 with view camera combination... It will surpass them by quite a (visible) margin.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    The original post has nothing to do with MFDB and all to do with speculating about the performance of a yet to be updated 35mm camera platfrom. Just because the subject line uses an acronym relating to medium format does not make it relevant to the medium format sub-forum. My request has nothing at all to do with censorship and everything to do with asking people to respect what this sub-form is here to achieve; facilitating the discussion of Medium format systems and digital backs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    Why? The question says Sony rivals MFDB so it is clearly MFD related and folks use A7rII for things they used to use MFD for?

    Moderators are not censors.

    Best regards
    Erik

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Thank god Theodoros is here to turn this forum into Lula. Because clearly, one ruined MF forum isn't enough.

    Carry on.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    Thank god Theodoros is here to turn this forum into Lula. Because clearly, one ruined MF forum isn't enough.

    Carry on.
    I guess that you refer to this thread that you started on Lula... http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/...topic=103862.0... Well, that is a news thread...

    I thought that its best to relate the new abilities of the A7 series to the ability of it to replace an MFDB in combination with a tech camera if one chooses it for use with a mini view camera (like the Actus) and then discuss how the MFDB market (especially the pro market) is affected because of these developments... you don't have to participate to the conversation if you think that the matter shouldn't be discussed...

    Never the less, the MFDB market keeps shrinking as more and more of the applications that where performed with them now have (direct) competition from smaller sensors that cost much less and I feel that you never had any intention of discussing this in your thread since IYO the only reason that people should buy MFDBs is because they are better than DSLRs in portraiture/or fashion (that IMO - and others- can be performed quite satisfactory with DSLRs too)...

    After all, you don't use your Credo 40 with a view or tech camera... do you? I thought that its not the right tool for the job... So you better stick discussing how you will improve your images further if you upgrade to an XF body and let the view camera set-up discussion for the people that are familiar with it and its uses.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Yep, I started a thread about this topic in the GENERAL NEWS section of Lula, addressing Sony shooters without adding unnecessary comments about how the sky is falling down on MF.

    Because I have the intellectual capacity of an adult and not a 6 year old. Might be an alien concept to you.

    Moving on from this thread now because people who post here are fortunately, smart enough to smell the trolls and not feed them, unlike Lula.

    Cheerio.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    Yep, I started a thread about this topic in the GENERAL NEWS section of Lula, addressing Sony shooters without adding unnecessary comments about how the sky is falling down on MF.

    Because I have the intellectual capacity of an adult and not a 6 year old. Might be an alien concept to you.

    Moving on from this thread now because people who post here are fortunately, smart enough to smell the trolls and not feed them, unlike Lula.

    Cheerio.
    Good thinking... its best if you stick to discussions on how your Credo 40 compares with your D800 and let us trolls discuss the other areas of photographic applications and the future of MFDBs with them...

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    Thank god Theodoros is here to turn this forum into Lula. Because clearly, one ruined MF forum isn't enough.

    Carry on.
    The reason I left the other place, do you know any other forums?
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Folks, tone it down NOW.
    Polite discourse is fine, but this is getting too rough for this forum.
    this is the one and final warning.
    thanks for your kind understanding.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Breaking news! Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New α Cameras!!!! | sonyalpharumors

    Before the end of the year, all A7 cameras will be firmware updated to offer 14bit lossless compressed & uncompressed raws (that will obviously boost their performance by a considerable margin)... At a fraction of the cost, an A7Rii on Cambo Actus (or Arca Universallis) will be able to directly rival for IQ any MFDB/view camera combination by at least 95%... It seems that even the most resistant MFDB "castles" for serious photography are under major attack that will lead to further shrinkage of the MF market... and since IQ of FF sensor improves at a faster rate than the MF ones, I don't see how the market situation may reverse or even stabilize...
    This is a very strange comment.
    First one ought to define performance.
    The classic definition is what the image looks like to a standard viewer at a standard distance.
    There are many measurements that can be used to assist in quantifying image appearance such as:
    1) resolution
    2) color fidelity (all sorts of technical variables go into this)
    3) Dynamic range which is further affected by the substrate or viewing technique (monitor, print, backlit print, illuminant)
    4) gamma
    5) quantization (or some might say posterization)
    6) Psycho-visual factors (nobody really likes natural saturation or contrast)
    7) Subject matter high frequency components
    8) focal length, subject distance, and reproduction ratio
    9) distortion

    There are also factors as relate to the photographer and his personal choice of tools and techniques.

    There are several compression techniques that are employed by camera manufacturers in a misguided attempt to scrimp on storage. The best lossless techniques are truly lossless and the sensor data is recoverable just the way it was prior to compression.
    A lossy compression technique is an engineering defect

    By correcting a defect that MFDBs don't have in the first place, it is hard to say exactly what was achieved other than the correction of a bug or misfeature.
    Percentage performance comparison is rather fruitless as well as comparison might be close for one use or technique but very different for another.
    Please avoid these sorts of claims unless you can back it up with observable data.
    It rained all day yesterday in the desert where I live. Does that mean it is no longer a desert? No it simply means that it rained.
    Since so many images posted today on the net are rather small jpegs (compressed I will note) I can maintain with some backing that the average smartphone is already at more than 95% adequacy for use by most folks. Sony's bug correction will make it no better at competing with those phones.
    thanks
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 18th October 2015 at 05:55.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Dascalos View Post
    Your IQ 180 is already inferior than any "true color" (multishot) MFDB for still work with a view camera. If the Sony sensor will be offered in a "true color" (multishot) version and combined with a mini view camera (like the Actus is), the results won't be up to 98% of an IQ 180 with view camera combination... It will surpass them by quite a (visible) margin.
    Thanks for letting me know, I had no idea that there were already better solutions out there. Again, keep up the great work!
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    The reason I left the other place, do you know any other forums?
    There is always the Pentax Forum.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Maybe it’s time to dispense with terms like 35mm, MF etc. altogether in the digital world. Just hangovers from the film days, that really have little or no meaning outside of marketing blurb (was the P1 H5 a 35mm digital back or a medium format back? It was marketed as the latter, but had a '35mm sized' sensor; go figure).

    IIRC it was Guy who mentioned that the A7RII is basically a digital back - and, from what I see and read about how it is being used, I couldn’t agree more. It's the H5 of 2015.

    Perhaps we should just stick to MP in describing a capture device (maybe enhanced by pixel size and sensor tech e.g. 80/5.2μ/CCD), rather than how it relates in overall surface area to a piece of acetate covered in a light sensitive emulsion. Doesn’t trip off the tongue so well, but probably more appropriate.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Maybe its time to dispense with terms like 35mm, MF etc. altogether in the digital world. Just hangovers from the film days, that really have little or no meaning outside of marketing blurb (was the P1 H5 a 35mm digital back or a medium format back? It was marketed as the latter, but had a '35mm sized' sensor; go figure).

    IIRC it was Guy who mentioned that the A7RII is basically a digital back - and, from what I see and read about how it is being used, I couldnt agree more. It's the H5 of 2015.

    Perhaps we should just stick to MP in describing a capture device (maybe enhanced by pixel size and sensor tech e.g. 80/5.2μ/CCD), rather than how it relates in overall surface area to a piece of acetate covered in a light sensitive emulsion. Doesnt trip off the tongue so well, but probably more appropriate.
    After all, the MFDBs 15 years ago where all of 36x24mm sensor size and none called them anything else than ...MFDBs! And yes... A Sony A7 is used exactly as an MFDB if used on view camera and thus it can only be compared with one...

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for those comments. I guess I can agree with most.

    A small point, JPEG is lossy compression, so any JPEG posted ever is actually compressed and mostly quite highly compressed. That is the reason we use it. Uncompressed data just has a lot of unsignificant data and is mostly not very usable on the web.

    Now, I agree on the virtues of raw data, just keep in mind data presented on the web is almost compressed. That also mean that almost all images displayed on the net do have raw compression artefacts.

    In a sense, the A7rII may be a game changer. Question is which games it may have been changed, but that has very little to do raw format but much to do with capabilities.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    This is a very strange comment.
    First one ought to define performance.
    The classic definition is what the image looks like to a standard viewer at a standard distance.
    There are many measurements that can be used to assist in quantifying image appearance such as:
    1) resolution
    2) color fidelity (all sorts of technical variables go into this)
    3) Dynamic range which is further affected by the substrate or viewing technique (monitor, print, backlit print, illuminant)
    4) gamma
    5) quantization (or some might say posterization)
    6) Psycho-visual factors (nobody really likes natural saturation or contrast)
    7) Subject matter high frequency components
    8) focal length, subject distance, and reproduction ratio
    9) distortion

    There are also factors as relate to the photographer and his personal choice of tools and techniques.

    There are several compression techniques that are employed by camera manufacturers in a misguided attempt to scrimp on storage. The best lossless techniques are truly lossless and the sensor data is recoverable just the way it was prior to compression.
    A lossy compression technique is an engineering defect

    By correcting a defect that MFDBs don't have in the first place, it is hard to say exactly what was achieved other than the correction of a bug or misfeature.
    Percentage performance comparison is rather fruitless as well as comparison might be close for one use or technique but very different for another.
    Please avoid these sorts of claims unless you can back it up with observable data.
    It rained all day yesterday in the desert where I live. Does that mean it is no longer a desert? No it simply means that it rained.
    Since so many images posted today on the net are rather small jpegs (compressed I will note) I can maintain with some backing that the average smartphone is already at more than 95% adequacy for use by most folks. Sony's bug correction will make it no better at competing with those phones.
    thanks
    -bob

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    "And yes... A Sony A7 is used exactly as an MFDB if used on view camera and thus it can only be compared with one..."

    not quite; it may have almost the same pixel count, but on a smaller sensor; the registration distance prevents the use of wide angle lenses (on the Actus), if anything, you might compare it to a "cropped" MFdb
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    "And yes... A Sony A7 is used exactly as an MFDB if used on view camera and thus it can only be compared with one..."

    not quite; it may have almost the same pixel count, but on a smaller sensor; the registration distance prevents the use of wide angle lenses (on the Actus), if anything, you might compare it to a "cropped" MFdb
    Two things I noticed that makes this still not viable for me are:

    1. Wides - main reason for going tech was using 23-40mm lenses. Longer than this was not too much of an issue with the DF. On the CMOS sensors, including MFDB sensors, this is still an issue

    2. Movements - most tech cameras have 15-20mm of movement in any direction. You need to move a 36/24 sensor +/- 10mm in any direction to just match the sensor size of a 54/40 sensor. After this, you're not left with much and nowhere close to the image circle limits of most lenses.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    I'm not so sure we will see a world of difference with the new uncompressed raw. Sure it will fix some things that the compressed showed up in certain situations but it's not going to change the overall quality of file. I could be wrong but it certainly won't be anything posted on the web. I'm not even going to bother to test the difference to be honest. Now the demise of MF compared to 35 is just not going to happen. Sure we have gotten closer to MF with these big higher resolution cameras but like the general rule of thumb still exists bigger is better. Too me the biggest difference is the tonal range of file . If 35 sensors can make up that character difference than it be even closer. Just not sure we will see that for quite sometime. I'm okay with that as MF is some of the best files around and the Sony, Nikon and Canon systems keep pushing the envelope and produce very nice files. Now I think in the future things may change with sensors but so will MF and we see that change to CMOS today. I think for some of us it maybe a disappointment to see CCD backs fade out of the market. Regardless of what limitations CCD had they still produced outstanding files. Honestly for me I'm left a little cold to these comparisons anymore. I just want functional cameras that are fun to work with and enjoy.

    Brands and formats mean very little to me they always have if I smell greener pastures with a brand I'll just switch . I've done it so many times already but going back to MF would be tough right now. It's not much different when I left a few years ago. Like to see even bigger jumps to consider it again. I leave my door wide open on these choices. For me at this point in time I find I'm just looking for something fun to shoot. I'm just bored on a lot of cameras. Guess I'm looking more to inspire me to shoot.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Moderators: Can this speculative thread please be moved to the Sony section where it belongs?
    It does not belong here at all. Just because they changed to metal mount from a plastic mount and charging a hefty premium for it will not make it medium format.

    Sonyalpharumors has no real rumors to spread and come up with such ridiculous claims once in a while.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    The bottom line is that if the difference can been seen, then it is of value, if not then it makes no difference.
    For me at least, the MF lens/sensor size combination can be seen and is much like the difference I can see in say a Leica lens vs a Nikon lens when I am going for detail.
    Much of the time though I shoot models, and issues such as camera weight and handling come to the fore.
    Once you have hand-held a Phase Df with back and 120mm lens through a four hour shoot you will understand this to the extreme and many types of model photography (ahem, at least what I shoot) don't benefit from additional resolution except for the photographer's private enjoyment when viewing files of eyelashes at 100%. So for me at the whole issue of the death of this or that or the convergence of a to b make no sense at all.
    I prefer to shoot architecture and short-haul (or when I have a vehicle to tote the stuff) landscapes with a tech camera, MF lenses, and a db. Why is because it gives me more options in composition.
    When I want to shoot fast, as in moving subjects, it is more that autofocus or hyperfocal type issue, so my Nikons tend to get a workout.
    For those situations where I want to travel light, it is a bag with the Leica M240 and three lenses.
    I am considering an article for which I already have a title "Over the hill and back again" where I intend to describe why I went from shooting the Leica M8 to abandoning it to now shooting the M240.
    I suppose I am an anti-fanboy since I am pretty fickle about what camera I use. It all depends....
    The Sony, although it has some good points, just never worked for me mainly due to its shape and its viewfinder which I found especially irritating.
    Gamechangers are few and far apart. I think that digital was one.
    Camera phones might have been the second.
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 18th October 2015 at 07:32.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    I would have moved this thread to the "Threads that are controversial for no good reason and probably just ought to be deleted" but we don't have one.
    www.getdpi.com
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I would have moved this thread to the "Threads that are controversial for no good reason and probably just ought to be deleted" but we don't have one.
    Lol we need a who gives a **** forum. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Lol we need a who gives a **** forum. Lol
    That should be called the Dean Martin forum. (he was widely known as a menefreghista - roughly translated: 'one who doesn't give a f***'.)

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Much of the time though I shoot models, and issues such as camera weight and handling come to the fore.

    -bob
    Its all about gravity, as Matthew McConaughey realised in Interstellar . Gravity is why I rarely use my MFD now - that and the black hole effect it can have on your wallet...
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, leading individual, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Its all about gravity, as Matthew McConaughey realised in Interstellar Gravity is why I rarely use my MFD now - that and the black hole effect it can have on your wallet...
    I suppose that without gravity I would not need to be concerned about losing weight....Mass maybe, but not weight.
    Steven Hawking has reassured me that as your money slipped into the black hole, information, such as your account balance, stays on the event horizon.
    -bob

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    That should be called the Dean Martin forum. (he was widely known as a menefreghista - roughly translated: 'one who doesn't give a f***'.)
    But do we get cocktails upon entering is the real question. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Lol we need a who gives a **** forum. Lol
    This is why i love this place! Please don't ever change, getDPI!
    My little corner on the internet.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Bob
    Look forward to that article-Over the Hill and Back. I am over the Hill, but can't manage to get back yet so perhaps your article will help. Then again, maybe I don't want to go back.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    he,he
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Nice. I'm in now

    Blue bottle is mine. I call it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    real men go for the Whistle Pig 12yr rye...

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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Is it sharing time now?

    My little corner on the internet.
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    Re: Sony directly rivals MFDB on view camera use, announces lossless 14bit raw

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    Is it sharing time now?

    Nice, but I'd add in a Bowmore, Laphroaig 18 and a Lagavulin
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, leading individual, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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