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Thread: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

  1. #101
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    I would take the highest mpx cam on the table . Why you ask because if the stars align and you get a amazing image I want the most horsepower in that file. 24 mpx is great for many uses but I'll take 42,50,60,80 any day of the week over it. I would also be going after the best sensor made. Sorry guys Leica is not it , have not been impressed with any of there CMOS chips. Give me a Dalsa or Sony chip any day would my choice. Other plus I can just about stick any lens on a Sony and that gives me a truckload of options. Sony is truly a open system
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    No interest in the Sony at all for me ...
    From the responses, I would guess this is the Sony forum. Wave the flag! G
    Yup, time to wave the white flag. To everybody their own, I have nothing against Leica as I've said and I use them myself.
    However denying you put Leica on a pedestal as well as finally hiding behind "this is the Sony forum" when you're outvoted don't help your credibility. Maybe try the Leica forum, because I see no reason to waste your and our time over here. Most of us here don't have any problems with a critical discussion on Sony cameras and most of us will agree they're not perfect but to me your writings don't add value anymore to a critical discussion.
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    What a strange thread.

    I recognise many names on this forum from the Leica User Forum which I followed for several years. [Me? – I dropped LUF after being libelled by a cardinal there following my criticisms of Leica and weaknesses of the 'M' system]. I still use a digital 'M', but I'm perplexed by the defensive mythologising and near religiosity in the broader church of Leica.

    The technologies used in digital cameras is amazing, but I have never thought that cameras are designed by the most brilliant of designers, and I think that all camera manufacturers are fair game for agnostic criticism. That includes, by the way; Leica, and Sony.

    Yours agnostically ............ Chris
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    My concern is just how awful the sample images from the SL, as posted in the review on DPR, appear to be. Noisy, soft in the corners (with that expensive zoom). Also it's a boxy unimaginative design.

    Their other cameras are a different proposition. The Q looks good, and the M line is a classic, etc.

    Surely the lesson is that Leica should not try to compete with the likes of Sony, because it's a battle they cannot win.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    No interest in the Sony at all for me ...
    From the responses, I would guess this is the Sony forum. Wave the flag!

    G
    Nobody is trying to convince you to buy a Sony, I think it's pretty obvious by now you have no interest in it. And yes, it is the Sony forum. It's stated right up there, there's no need to guess. ;-)

    - Ricardo
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  6. #106
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    My concern is just how awful the sample images from the SL, as posted in the review on DPR, appear to be. Noisy, soft in the corners (with that expensive zoom). Also it's a boxy unimaginative design.

    Their other cameras are a different proposition. The Q looks good, and the M line is a classic, etc.

    Surely the lesson is that Leica should not try to compete with the likes of Sony, because it's a battle they cannot win.
    I suppose the way to state it is more like "don't compete with Sony on their terms, compete with your strengths" which is why I think Olympus lost the original 4/3rds battle- because they tried to compete with Canikon on Canikon's turf and terms.

    But on 2nd thought, I am not even sure Leica is trying to compete with Sony with the SL as much as it seems they would- I think Leica knows they have their niche at the asking price and they stick to it. Nothing wrong in that (for them) if they make the profit and there are some satisfied customers.

    This is virtually their "pro FF AF system, " - at least even if highly priced the lenses will be good. Certainly not my camera given the size (ignoring the price for a moment).

    - Ricardo

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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post

    Surely the lesson is that Leica should not try to compete with the likes of Sony, because it's a battle they cannot win.
    I don't think they compete with anyone.

    (Lambert quoted krockwell )

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    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    At some point, I want a Leica. I want to shoot with one....
    the HepKitty

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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Yup, time to wave the white flag. To everybody their own, I have nothing against Leica as I've said and I use them myself.
    However denying you put Leica on a pedestal as well as finally hiding behind "this is the Sony forum" when you're outvoted don't help your credibility. Maybe try the Leica forum, because I see no reason to waste your and our time over here. Most of us here don't have any problems with a critical discussion on Sony cameras and most of us will agree they're not perfect but to me your writings don't add value anymore to a critical discussion.
    I can see that you do not understand me at all.

    You see, I never frequent any brand forums. The way I approach this board, just as with all other boards other than DPR where it isn't possible, is to click the "New Posts" link and see what interesting topics there might be regardless of what brand affiliation they might have. I read about medium format, large format, film, all the 35mm brands, instant film, and all the digital brands.

    I don't give a darn what brand is being discussed, I never look at the brand partition unless I have a camera specific question and/or originate a thread. Then it makes sense to address the question to those who might have specific answers.

    My interest in Sony's products specifically was piqued with the A7 line, which is why I bought one to experiment with and evaluate. I used it almost exclusively for a year and some, trying to make it work the way I wanted my camera to work and for the purposes I had in mind. I found that it didn't meet my expectations, and decided I wasn't interested in pursuing it further. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in the technology they offer, I am. But I will go with Nikon, Leica, Olympus equipment when I put my money down as their value proposition suits my needs and goals better, with fewer problems.

    I've taken to avoiding most of the Sony oriented threads on the forum because the noisome sensitivity of the participants here make it unpleasant, to say the least. But this thread is in place seemingly to do little but slam a new Leica camera that only a couple of the people here have even seen in the flesh. I find it mostly ridiculous, and occasionally sad, that this brand boosterism can affect so many otherwise sensible, thoughtful, and experienced photographers.

    I was shooting yesterday with my Pentax FA43 Limited mounted on the much ridiculed Pentax K-01 mirrorless camera designed by Marc Newsom. I found one cheap, practically new, and outfitted it with my two favorite Pentax lenses. It produced several exquisite portraits, a couple of lovely still lifes, and was fun to shoot with. The sensor is old, only 16Mpixel (I think, can't remember), the IBIS works very well, and it's darn cute in bright yellow. Most here will call it a piece of junk. No one here has commented on the photo, posted to the often forgotten Pentax forum. I see it as a minor collectible and a perfectly nice little camera, despite its lack of either red dot or Sony logo.

    I just could care less about pedestals and brand snobbism, regardless what brand you espouse. I do see something wrong with photographers who, out of hand and with no first hand experience, slam a major brand's new products based upon mostly irrelevant spec sheet jockeying and mindless on-line reviews, who blind themselves to looking at a new product for what it is and what it can produce, objectively and with an open mind.

    Enjoy your Sonys. I will enjoy my cameras.

    G

  10. #110
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I can see that you do not understand me at all.
    Sorry Godfrey, wrong, I fully understand you and I'm sorry you have a problem with that.

    We're not unpleasant to people who have something to contribute in a positive manner, and criticism is no problem either as long as it is expressed in a respectful manner. But I am very sensitive to seagulls (fly in screaming, cr*p all over the place and fly out screaming when they're done). If Sony shooters do that in a Nikon, Pentax or Leica forum they rightfully get treated likewise, don't expect it to be any different here.
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Sorry Godfrey, wrong, I fully understand you and I'm sorry you have a problem with that.

    We're not unpleasant to people who have something to contribute in a positive manner, and criticism is no problem either as long as it is expressed in a respectful manner. But I am very sensitive to seagulls (fly in screaming, cr*p all over the place and fly out screaming when they're done). If Sony shooters do that in a Nikon, Pentax or Leica forum they rightfully get treated likewise, don't expect it to be any different here.
    I find it amusing that you say "we" rather than "I". That speaks of your feeling empowered as a member of an elitist, separatist club.

    I harbor you personally no ill will, nor do I disrespect you, individually or collectively. I just find this thread very sad and foolish.

    G

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    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    But this thread is in place seemingly to do little but slam a new Leica camera that only a couple of the people here have even seen in the flesh.
    For me personally? $12K seems an extraordinarily high price to pay for any 24 megapixel starter package as of late 2015, and I consider the chances of Leica somehow rewriting the laws of physics to be pretty slim.

    In terms of pure performance I think that there's really no such thing as a "special something" which can't be quantified.

    Whether you like the look & feel of the product, or the way it's marketed is another matter! I think a lot of others continue to use less-that-state-of-the-art gear because they like it and it gets the job done, and that's reason enough.
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  13. #113
    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I find it amusing that you say "we" rather than "I". That speaks of your feeling empowered as a member of an elitist, separatist club.

    I harbor you personally no ill will, nor do I disrespect you, individually or collectively. I just find this thread very sad and foolish.

    G
    The "we" comes from observation in many boards (inc. the Sony one) here on GetDPI and not from the reason you state, the "I" in the next sentence is my personal opinion. I also harbor you personally no ill will, nor do I disrespect you and like you I use any equipment that suits me (Leica, KonicaMinolta, Sony, Canon, Panasonic, Olympus ....), but I try to be open-minded and balanced of the pro/con's of the system I use and try to never do that in a disrespectful way. For me bashing any brand is as elitist as not being able to see it's faults.

  14. #114
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: DPR allows some Leica SL and A7RII comparisons

    I think I read enough. Time to lock this up. All I see are attacks on brands , people, product and absolutely the stupidest **** I have read on this forum. I can't believe what i am reading. So its ends today you got a issue with that tag Bob or Jack. I want nothing to do with this anymore , Im basically done as this has left a very bad taste in my mouth. This is NOT what Jack and I started this place to be.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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