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Argh! Silent shutter got me.

I had turned on silent shutter mode while shooting in a very quiet setting this evening and unfortunately forgot to turn it off afterwards. So when I grabbed this 7-vertical-shot pan of a foggy night in Minneapolis, it was ruined by banding. Dang.

Lesson learned.

 

Annna T

Active member
Thanks Mike. How exactly does this happen? No problem with EFCS? TIA.
When you use the silent shutter, the camera returns to 12bits colors instead of 14bits; adds that plus perhaps a higher ISO (? No indication as to whether it was handheld or on tripod) and you get banding instead of subtle tones gradations. Interesting that the banding is vertical and not horizontal. May be because he used the camera in vertical mode.
 
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k-hawinkler

Well-known member
When you use the silent shutter, the camera returns to 12bits colors instead of 14bits; adds that plus perhaps a higher ISO (?) and you get banding instead of subtle tones gradations. Interesting that the banding is vertical and nit horizontal. May be because he used the camera in vertical mode.
Thanks Annna. Those are pretty sharp vertical lines I see on the left side. I think you explained the vertical. But why so sharp? TIA.
Couldn't one map them out though?
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

With the electronic (silent) shutter the sweep is slow. Light is oscillating with AC-voltage. So what you see is variation of light during exposure.

With EFCS you will not have the same problem.

Best regards
Erik


Thanks Annna. Those are pretty sharp vertical lines I see on the left side. I think you explained the vertical. But why so sharp? TIA.
Couldn't one map them out though?
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Banding ruined several shots I took at a recent family wedding.

I was using the A7S and was using silent shutter for obvious reasons.

I won't be making that mistake again any time soon.

LouisB
 

Annna T

Active member
Hi,

With the electronic (silent) shutter the sweep is slow. Light is oscillating with AC-voltage. So what you see is variation of light during exposure.

With EFCS you will not have the same problem.

Best regards
Erik
Thanks for your explanation. It makes sense. But I'm wondering : we aren't in a closed room with only a few lights, but in open space, with many many different lights, some brighter, some weaker, some reddish, some yellowish and some very white. So are they all flickering at the same rhythm, even if they comes from different sources and different technologies ? Are they not cancelling each others ? Or may be the brightest one dominates all the others ?
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Annna,

Here is great article on how the silent shutter works: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3885998

I would guess that most light flicker with power line frequency, 50 or 60 Hz depending on where you live. The power lines are in very good sync. So that is the reason they don't cancel out.

Best regards
Erik



Thanks for your explanation. It makes sense. But I'm wondering : we aren't in a closed room with only a few lights, but in open space, with many many different lights, some brighter, some weaker, some reddish, some yellowish and some very white. So are they all flickering at the same rhythm, even if they comes from different sources and different technologies ? Are they not cancelling each others ? Or may be the brightest one dominates all the others ?
 
V

Vivek

Guest
What I posted on the Fuji forum:

Of late, I have been using a Panasonic GM1 (only e shutter with non system lenses) and am yet to see any banding! AFAIK, there is no global shutter involved.

The Sony A7s (silent shutter) is unpredictable. Under multiple lights, no signs of banding.
No idea how Panasonic do it.

To be cautious, it is better to turn the silent shutter off in Sony cams.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
EFCS works well up to 1/2000 sec exposure. Beyond that the shutter will start to be seen on one side of the image. Need to turn it off at that point.
IIRC Jim Kasson now recommends to use the mechanical shutter for speeds faster than 1/1000 s to avoid uneven exposure.
 

Jim DE

New member
If the banding is AC cycle originated ( which I have no reason to doubt) can't it be avoided using silent shutter at a shutter speed above the cycle like we do with regular shutters and flor lighting in studios to cancel the 60 cycle hum banding?

Just thinking aloud... I never use silent shutter anyway but did learn early how to eliminate 60 cycle hum in my studio images with shutter speeds.
 
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ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi Jim,

No, shutter travel time is around a 1/12s. Just to say, if you would shoot cars racing by, you would also see the tilted wheel artefacts.

Many modern fluorescent tube armatures have electronic ballast, blinking at much higher frequencies. So it is not necessarily a problem. Incandescent lamps are more stable.

It also means flash sync speed is very low.

Best regards
Erik

If the banding is AC cycle originated ( which I have no reason to doubt) can't it be avoided using silent shutter at a shutter speed above the cycle like we do with regular shutters and flor lighting in studios to cancel the 60 cycle hum banding?

Just thinking aloud... I never use silent shutter anyway but did learn early how to eliminate 60 cycle hum in my studio images with shutter speeds.
 
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