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Thread: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

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    Super Duper
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    Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    The Zeiss 16-35/2.8 arrived a few minutes ago. I whipped it out, stuck it on the second A900 I just bought for this summer's wedding schedule and zoomed around the house snapping anything I could.

    PHENOMENAL optic

    Almost no CA at all even shooting edges against a completely whited out window ... a touch of barrel, but well controlled for a 16mm zoom, sharp corners ... again especially for a zoom. Zeiss color and contrast. Slight vignetting but very little IMO, not very dark so easily corrected if desired. Need for it to get sunny out to check flare.

    Focuses very close, with the front element very close to the subject. Focuses quick, quiet and sure ... much better than my noisy old Zeiss/Contax N17-35/2.8, and the images look snappier (probably due to the A900 more than the optics).

    Build quality is Zeiss all the way ... perfect mate to the 24-70/2.8.

    Attached 4 shots done with the 16-35.

    Expensive, but so far looks to be worth every penny.

    Also picked up a Sony 500/8 mirror ... this is the only AF mirror I've ever seen. I knew that Minolta had made the Leica R 500 mirror, and liked the color rendition of that lens for certain subjects, but it was a bear to use ... on the A900 it's a whole new ballgame ... with SSS and AF this is a much more usable solution for that extra reach without a huge lens. Very nice color and contrast ... just like the Leica version.

    Attached 1 shot with the 500 mirror...

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    BTW, these are right out of the Camera, just sharpened for web.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    You know your what we called the hot girls in high school that would not go out with you but there was a certain name us boy's called them. I think you know the phrase blank teaser. I hope your on the floor laughing your *** off with that one. Love ya man, this is killing me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    any taek on what spin-offs zeiss may have in the works for this lens on other cameras?

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    I fear for Jono's bank balance. Doubt he'll be able to hold out after seeing this
    David

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Not a chance
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    any taek on what spin-offs zeiss may have in the works for this lens on other cameras?
    AFAIK, the design of the ZA lenses is completely separate from the ZF/ZE, so I doubt we'll see a comparable lens for other mounts anytime soon. Even the ZA 85 has a different design with more elements when compared to 85 ZF/ZE.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    My bank manager reliably informs me that this lens is rubbish, so there.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Congratulations on the new lens!

    I was gonna go for the 135/1.8 as the first "second lens" (just got my A900 + 24/70 for a week, WOW!) but I am leaning towards the 16-35 even more now (seen many pictures and reviews on other sites too).

    In that respect a question: do you think there is a chance that the 135 would be upgraded to have SSM sometime soon (ever)?

    Thanks for your thoughts, cheers, Bob

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Marc,
    These are looking really nice right out of the box. Have to say, this A900 coupled with some of this new Zeiss glass is looking very impressive.

    LJ

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Something else I want to check into at PMA is this system
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Something else I want to check into at PMA is this system
    In this case, the impressiveness of this camera may not be "system" as much as it is integration with impressive Zeiss glass, plus some Sony glass like the 70-200 f2.8G. It does look like one can put together some very impressive kit that may not break the bank as much as trying and not getting as close with something from Nikon (D3X) or Canon (1DsMkIII) alone. May not be the high ISO champ, but with these nice Zeiss lenses, the A900 is turning out some very nice looking, detailed images with great color. Hard to ignore this baby.

    LJ

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    My bank manager reliably informs me that this lens is rubbish, so there.
    Two word solution:

    Bale Out.



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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by picman View Post
    Congratulations on the new lens!

    I was gonna go for the 135/1.8 as the first "second lens" (just got my A900 + 24/70 for a week, WOW!) but I am leaning towards the 16-35 even more now (seen many pictures and reviews on other sites too).

    In that respect a question: do you think there is a chance that the 135 would be upgraded to have SSM sometime soon (ever)?

    Thanks for your thoughts, cheers, Bob
    I have no idea. It's a pretty new lens, so who knows when somethiong like that would happen. I hadn't noticed any AF lag ... IF probably helps that.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    In this case, the impressiveness of this camera may not be "system" as much as it is integration with impressive Zeiss glass, plus some Sony glass like the 70-200 f2.8G. It does look like one can put together some very impressive kit that may not break the bank as much as trying and not getting as close with something from Nikon (D3X) or Canon (1DsMkIII) alone. May not be the high ISO champ, but with these nice Zeiss lenses, the A900 is turning out some very nice looking, detailed images with great color. Hard to ignore this baby.

    LJ
    Yeah, that's the argument I forwarded to the wifey ... I showed her the D3X price tag, and then the A900 ... "Why, I could get 2 Sony's and have money left over." (which I did). I failed to mention the lens prices ... at least for now.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by picman View Post
    Congratulations on the new lens!

    I was gonna go for the 135/1.8 as the first "second lens" (just got my A900 + 24/70 for a week, WOW!) but I am leaning towards the 16-35 even more now (seen many pictures and reviews on other sites too).

    In that respect a question: do you think there is a chance that the 135 would be upgraded to have SSM sometime soon (ever)?

    Thanks for your thoughts, cheers, Bob
    I have a feeling that the Zeiss primes are gonna remain screw drive, and the SSM lenses will be the zooms, but who knows?

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Thanks for your ideas. No reason to postpone getting the 135 then I guess

    Cheers, Bob.

    PS There actually was a rumor about this in a french magazine quite some time ago, hence my question.
    Last edited by picman; 21st February 2009 at 00:51.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    I'm loving the 135, simply outstanding. The 85 which I got earlier this week does not excite as much as the 135, still an excellent lens but seems to have lots of purple fringing. Time will tell but the 135 is special.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    This makes me look forward to my 16-35. Should be arriving soon

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    This makes me look forward to my 16-35. Should be arriving soon
    Yeah, I think you are going to like it. I can't wait to use it for something "real".

    This is an important lens for my wedding work. I get crammed into small dressing rooms and bathrooms where the bride is getting ready, and I sometimes need a field of view greater than the 24-70 provides. Plus I use a wide zoom for over-all shots of the church and reception where detail is very important.

    I think the build quality of these lenses is remarkable ... especially these days. I personally find them even better than the Leica R lenses like the 28-90 I recently owned, and that's saying something. Quite thoughtful design, and a delight in hand. It's been awhile since I could say that.

    Now all we need is a new formula Zeiss AF 35/1.4 ASPH and we'll be all set. Well, a Zeiss APO macro would hurt either . Eventually, Sony may have to offer a T/S solution to be taken seriously as a Pro system. But that is of no matter to me as I don't use a 35mm DSLR for that type work.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Can't wait to see more examples of this lens keep em coming!
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yeah, I think you are going to like it. I can't wait to use it for something "real".

    This is an important lens for my wedding work. I get crammed into small dressing rooms and bathrooms where the bride is getting ready, and I sometimes need a field of view greater than the 24-70 provides. Plus I use a wide zoom for over-all shots of the church and reception where detail is very important.

    I think the build quality of these lenses is remarkable ... especially these days. I personally find them even better than the Leica R lenses like the 28-90 I recently owned, and that's saying something. Quite thoughtful design, and a delight in hand. It's been awhile since I could say that.

    Now all we need is a new formula Zeiss AF 35/1.4 ASPH and we'll be all set. Well, a Zeiss APO macro would hurt either . Eventually, Sony may have to offer a T/S solution to be taken seriously as a Pro system. But that is of no matter to me as I don't use a 35mm DSLR for that type work.
    Wow! That's all great info! Thanks Marc.

    If we believe the rumours, we should expect a Zeiss 24mm f/1.4 and a 200mm makro. They will be both on my to buy list

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Did somebody say something about a lens?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    No go back to your hole and when spring comes we will call you. There are no shadows yet

    Seriously though in a couple weeks i will get a chance to hold this system in my hands and i really need to do that
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    No go back to your hole and when spring comes we will call you. There are no shadows yet

    Seriously though in a couple weeks i will get a chance to hold this system in my hands and i really need to do that
    Better not Guy

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by picman View Post
    Thanks for your ideas. No reason to postpone getting the 135 then I guess

    Cheers, Bob.

    PS There actually was a rumor about this in a french magazine quite some time ago, hence my question.
    IMO, this is a must have lens even before the 16-35/2.8 ... IF you already have the 24-70/2.8 (24 is pretty wide on a FF camera), it's breathtaking.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Wow! That's all great info! Thanks Marc.

    If we believe the rumours, we should expect a Zeiss 24mm f/1.4 and a 200mm makro. They will be both on my to buy list
    24/1.4 would be really nice, but a 35/1.4 would be better. 200 makro would be stellar .... as I'm sure the price tag will be also. It better be APO because I won't put up with CA for that kind of work. If it's in the same league as the Zeiss/Contax 120 macro, it'll destroy every other macro out there.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    IMO, this is a must have lens even before the 16-35/2.8 ... IF you already have the 24-70/2.8 (24 is pretty wide on a FF camera), it's breathtaking.
    Yes, that's what I figured too, and in any case the 16-35 is still on pre-order over here. So next week I'll go get my CZ 135/1.8

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Better not Guy
    Yea i know. I am a gear slut and fully admit it. Bringing custom made ski mask to Vegas
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yea i know. I am a gear slut and fully admit it. Bringing custom made ski mask to Vegas
    Tell the wifey that it's all part of the stimulus package and President Obama will give us a medal for Conspicuous Consumption ... er ... I mean Bravery.

    Seroiusly, do NOT touch the lenses ... the camera is okay ... but the lenses will be your undoing.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Yes i need a stimulus package that won't get my head chopped off with a pair of Manola Blaniks. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Did somebody say something about a lens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    No go back to your hole and when spring comes we will call you. There are no shadows yet
    You speak to me? I can only assume that fear would make you say something quite that unkind to a loyal and hard working sycophant. . . . . I think an apology is your only way out (together with a big purchase).


    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Seriously though in a couple weeks i will get a chance to hold this system in my hands and i really need to do that
    As Marc says - don't touch those Zeiss lenses . . . the camera feels a little fat and lightweight, it's charms are an acquired taste. The lenses are irresistable.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Good news! Sony called today and they will have my lens ready to pick up on Thursday!

    I hope they won't release any additional Zeiss lenses soon, I need some time to mend the holes in my pocket

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    [QUOTE=jonoslack;78219]You speak to me? I can only assume that fear would make you say something quite that unkind to a loyal and hard working sycophant. . . . . I think an apology is your only way out (together with a big purchase).



    See now you came out to play that means you have to buy one now. I was trying to save you from this fruitless attempt to hide from the 16-24 zoom. I will only think about it after you have given it a full run.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    [QUOTE=Guy Mancuso;78674]
    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    You speak to me? I can only assume that fear would make you say something quite that unkind to a loyal and hard working sycophant. . . . . I think an apology is your only way out (together with a big purchase).



    See now you came out to play that means you have to buy one now. I was trying to save you from this fruitless attempt to hide from the 16-24 zoom. I will only think about it after you have given it a full run.
    Well, it's all down to Peter (innerimager) or somebody else buying my 35 'cron . Current plan is 'no new money', which means I have to sell something first.

    16-35 is a nice range (nicer than Nikon's 14-24 perhaps).

    I think you're going to have to jump first Guy

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Hopefully I will get to play with it next week at PMA. I should NOT be going to this show. I need major size handcuffs on my wallet i can feel it already. I am such a slutty gear head
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Hopefully I will get to play with it next week at PMA. I should NOT be going to this show. I need major size handcuffs on my wallet i can feel it already. I am such a slutty gear head
    Enjoy your trip to PMA and your new lens!

    Should you talk to Sony people, may I ask you to ask them what CCD strategy Sony has?
    They have CCD's in their entry level cameras A100/200/300/350, Konica Minolta did have CCD's in their 5D and 7D. I still like the CCD output at low ISO values better than that of my A700 CMOS sensor and hope that they use it again in a middle class or higher body.

    Sony did a step back compared to KonicaMinolta with another piece of technique. The 7D's colors were better than all of Sony's later A mount cameras because they used better color filters for the bayer pattern color filtering.
    Therefore, if I don't need very high resolution or autofocus I still prefer using the 7D. Sony should improve their cameras in respect of color filtering.

    I thought that you may be interested in such things as well, since you seem to buy into the Sony system. Should you have some spare time at PMA and like to discuss technical issues with a manufacturer it would be great if you remember my two questions.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post

    Sony did a step back compared to KonicaMinolta with another piece of technique. The 7D's colors were better than all of Sony's later A mount cameras because they used better color filters for the bayer pattern color filtering.
    Therefore, if I don't need very high resolution or autofocus I still prefer using the 7D. Sony should improve their cameras in respect of color filtering.
    Hi Nautilus
    Colour is what affects me most. I haven't used the previous Sony CCD based cameras, but the real joy of the A900 (not just for me, but for others too) is the wonderfully subtle colour transitions, especially near to the brightest part of the image. It catches early morning and late evening light for landscapes especially well (much better than anything I've used, with the possible exception of the Olympus E1).

    These things are very subjective, I've certainly seen no tests which give you a satisfactory feeling for it.

    So, I wonder if you've spent a great deal of time with A900 images?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Nautilus
    Colour is what affects me most. I haven't used the previous Sony CCD based cameras, but the real joy of the A900 (not just for me, but for others too) is the wonderfully subtle colour transitions, especially near to the brightest part of the image. It catches early morning and late evening light for landscapes especially well (much better than anything I've used, with the possible exception of the Olympus E1).

    These things are very subjective, I've certainly seen no tests which give you a satisfactory feeling for it.

    So, I wonder if you've spent a great deal of time with A900 images?
    Jono,

    A900's image quality looks very good for me as well.
    I addressed two different topics in my previous post.

    The first I call unscientifically the CCD effect that I see independent from the second topic, the colour aspect due to colour filtering.

    CCD pictures look more original in the sense that they show more pure clarity compared to CMOS pictures. At low ISO values, especially when combined with a thin anti aliasing filter like the sort of the A100 has. CMOS offers the manufacturers more possibilities to improve picture quality at higher ISO values. I think that's the reason why they usually use CMOS.

    Colour filtering is about allowing certain wave lenghts of light to reach the sensor or not. Differences in filtering, e.g. steep or flat curves at the corners or shifts of filtering curves could show up in the image output.
    I attributed specifically KonicaMinolta's 7D with 'better' filters. Sony's later CCD cameras are worse. A700 is worse as well.

    You probably have seen more A900 images than I did since you own the camera. I've seen more than a few of them and have the opinion that when watched at 100% pixel level they are very close to A700's output. Of course, due to the ammount of pixels (2x A700's pixel output) A900 pictures look much better than A700's when we see prints or screen images at the same size.

    I think colour transitions and retention in highlights doesn't necessarily mean true colours, more beautiful colours.

    To sum it up. A lot is a matter of taste and there are other aspects beside colour accuracy that influence the colour appearance in pictures, e.g. the preserved quality in highlights that you've mentioned.

    But if I make a nature picture of the ocean, the blue sky, green plants and such I still prefer the 7D to A100 and A700. I get natural looking results out of the box that I can not photoshop out of an A100 or A700 picture.

    If I make a flower picture with reds and yellows I clearly prefer the A700 because these colours go much earlier in saturation and destroy texture with the 7D.

    Best of both worlds would be perfect and is the reason why I'm curious what Sony's plans in this respect are.

  40. #40
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Hi Nautilus
    Well, as you say, it's all rather subjective.
    I wasn't necessarily suggesting that the A900 was more accurate, but it does have a 'glow' about it which isn't found in very many cameras, and for me, this is more important than accuracy.

    Just this guy you know

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    I too believe the output of the A900 is special. I haven't had as many digital cameras as some of you but the A900 got as close to my M8 (CCD) as any other camera I have had, (i.e. 5D, D700) with twice the resolution. The glow Jono refers to is real and as far as color accuracy its as good as I have seen out of the box without much PP. The lenses are spectacular.
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    I really do not agree with nautilus regarding the color filtering. There is no color filtering in digital because sensors are color blind. It is just a matter of Bayer demosaicing. If nautilus means the RGB filter array which covers the pixels on the sensor, then Sony in fact has done so much better than the competition that people are comparing the A900 results with MFDB not 35mm Dslr. Of course, a side effect of the strong RGB filters is that the camera does not do well at high-iso. Canon clearly stated that it reduced the strength of the color filter array in the 5D2 in order to achieve exceptional high-iso performance. Of course it also claims there is no effect on color separation and depth, but we all know there should be an effect. As far as I'm concerned, color quality and depth and the film like rendition is what attracted me to the A900 in the forst place, together with the Zeiss lenses. Coming from a 1Ds2 user, a camera which is no slouch in the color department, this must say something.

  43. #43
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Got the 16-35, now have to do some tests

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    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Mine arrived yesterday evening, just 2 quick shots hand held on the way to catch the bus home(carbon footprint reduction).

    Notice the banding in the 2nd shot!

  45. #45
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Banding in 2nd shot doesn't look that bad in the resized image. I imagine it must look much worse at full size. Anyhow, if I understood the manual correctly, it states that 1600 is the highest iso of the sensor. Anything above that is considered as expanded sensitivity. Another indication to the above is the camera auto-iso that goes to 1600 max. Some reviewers for some reason say the max iso is 3200 but nowhere in the manual is it mentioned.

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    Senior Member Eoin's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    I am not too concerned about it at this point, just pointed it out before someone else did. Extreme ISO and over exposed light sources do have a tendency to do funny things. At least there is no ghosting aka uv/Ir filters.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    If I am not mistaken there is some light banding in the first shot too, at the same place emanating horizontally from the overexposed streetlights.

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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Anyhow, if I understood the manual correctly, it states that 1600 is the highest iso of the sensor. Anything above that is considered as expanded sensitivity. Another indication to the above is the camera auto-iso that goes to 1600 max. Some reviewers for some reason say the max iso is 3200 but nowhere in the manual is it mentioned.
    I think 200-3200 is the real range, because in the ISO menu anything outside this range is underlined indicating the expanded range. I rarely shoot above ISO 800 myself.
    David Anderson

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Braeside View Post
    I think 200-3200 is the real range, because in the ISO menu anything outside this range is underlined indicating the expanded range. I rarely shoot above ISO 800 myself.
    I think you are right! Thank you for pointing this to my attention. Honestly I never noticed the underlines. The manual's english, as usual, is a bit confusing.

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    Senior Member dhsimmonds's Avatar
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    Re: Zeiss 16-35/2.8: RUN don't Walk !!!!

    Mine is on order and should arrive next Monday. I couldn't wait for Gordon Brown's economic "easing" solutions!! Anyway proceeds of the sale of my DMR and R9 plus 6 R lenses was burning a hole in my pocket!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

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