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Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

Viramati

Member
I have to say they seem to have been pretty quick off the mark with accepting the problem and I remember that firmware updates came fairly quickly to solve some of the focussing issues with A7rII and IBIS not working with certain lenses on the A7II. I also remember when I bought the fuji X100 just after it released and they found a problem with the Iris mechanism it took just 4 days to get it fixed from notifying them to getting the camera back. On the other hand I believe Nikon dragged their heals of a very longtime before admitting to issues with the shutter on the D600. I only wish that Sony would apply this sort of zeal to improving QC on their lenses and generally updating firmware (like fuji) but it does seem that they only really go after issues that will effect sales of a new product.
 

Slingers

Active member
I have mixed feelings on this problem. On one hand I feel this should have been picked up in their testing of the new EVF and steps taken to ensure its not possible to have a light leak from it. Then on the other I think it's great Sony are being proactive and fixing this issue.
 

Jim DE

New member
Somebody or group seriously dropped the ball on this one but Sony's rapid response and offer to replace all affected units is essentially all they can do as a company for their customers. It is unfortunate this happened but it does happen time to time in nearly every form of manufacturing. The probability of it happening today with worldwide markets and outsourcing is even greater than it once was. Design teams and parts manufacturers may be geographically halfway around the world apart trying to communicate at a distance to create a part or component that matches a part or component created on the other half of the world. The customer doesn't care about the complexity of today's manufacturing processes and they shouldn't. All they want is a quality product that works everytime they require it to. In the case of Sony and this specific product they failed at this customer requirement right out of the gate. It is unfortunate for all involved but all they can do as a company is essentially what we are seeing them do to make this right. The anger and lack of customer confidence is natural and is to be expected. Sony now has to rebuild what they may of lost in their customer base which will take time. You can do a million things right as a manufacturer but it only takes one issue like this to put them in a hole they have to work their way out of over a much longer period of time. Everything they do now will be more scrutinized by their customers and potential ones who may buy their product. This could be the straw that causes them to look at all aspects of their production quality and tighten everything up to make them higher and more consistent in their build quality. We will see if it does because certainly they do have a process that is not as robust in their lens building as it should be otherwise we would not see as many posts about decentering.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Jim,

This is a camera made in Japan by Sony who touted that a dedicated team of engineers are involved in its assembly. :(

The manufacturing process ought to be simpler for a P&S cam compared to many others.

There is no one at Sony testing the cameras properly before shipping them off.

The other camera that got announced the A7s II was showing the Sun as a dark spot. Luckily for Sony, though dreadful, was just a FW update.

They still are averse to offering any FW updates for their older cameras as David notes. All the shouts are falling on deaf ears.
 

Jim DE

New member
Vivek, The manufacturing process should be as you think it is and what actually happens should be completely invisible to its customers. What actually happens from design to the first units reaching the customer may be far more complex than what you or I think.

Modern manufacturing develop manufacturing processes that are essentially error and mistake proof. These processes remove the need to have one person checking someone else's work IF the process is well designed and robustly executed. The days of 100 in facility inspections behind 500 processes have been gone since the 80's in western manufacturing. Being as far eastern manufacturing was initially formed from western processes I can pretty much assure that they too don't use people to check other people's processes except in a few critical areas.

It would be nice if modern manufacturing would be as simplistic as people may think it is using rational ideas. Sadly it is usually far from that easy or rational. I could bet everything there are not people standing on the end of the line checking every conceivable failure possibility a product may experience. That is done in early R&D and my bet is something was missed from prototype to v1 production units.
 

Annna T

Active member
Vivek my opinion wjich you can ignore and please take this in the right spirit given. Your crazy get the replacement . You loved the thing shot some great images with it . Why deny yourself that pleasure and imagery because they discovered a issue .

(...)
I'll chime in here, don't be too impulsive Vivek. Cool down before taking any decision. Here is the killer argument :

It is rare that getting a new camera improves ones photography (especially now that most digital cameras are delivering HQ pictures). But during the past week my feeling was that your street pictures had improved using that RX1r2.

In your shoes I'd keep it once the light leak problem is solved..

(Unless you want to try the soon to be announced Olympus Pen F and add it some lenses) <grin>
 

Jim DE

New member
One more statistical fact about human inspection. 100% visual inspection is only 89% effective. This means if I put you or myself behind guy to check one assembly process he may do on a production line over time 20% of these items would be missed.

Do a google search on what 1% defect rate means in manufacturing processes and see if you could survive with 100 inspectors only being 80% effective. This is why today we develop manufacturing processes that are mistake and error proof in their design. If something is done wrong or incomplete today heels and sirens go off and the line shuts down automatically. This is how we improved on human 80% effectiveness.
 
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Vivek

Guest
But during the past week my feeling was that your street pictures had improved using that RX1r2.
If I can be convinced of that, it is time to quit photography altogether!

Please tell me that you are not being serious here!
 

Annna T

Active member
If I can be convinced of that, it is time to quit photography altogether!

Please tell me that you are not being serious here!
Yes I'm serious.. I made that reflection to myself and thought I'd wait one more week to see if it hold up before writing it. I thought the reason was that the camera suited you and your kind of subject better. I found that your framing was getting better (although i know that good framing isn't necessarily what street photographers are after).

Why quitting photography if there is improvement ? Self destructing behavior ?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I have to say I thought your work was getting better as well, now should a camera have that effect. The answer is no but the comfort level and the good feeling you have for the tool you can grow from that . Maybe better said if you really like the camera and the way it handles than your abilities improve because it puts you more in a creative mode than fighting technical issues with camera. It's not really the camera it's your abilities that improve from it. This is actually how it should be by putting all that stuff aside and it frees your mind. This is a good thing.

I have to agree with Annna your work has improved and man if that happens it's a blessing. We all want to improve so something internally for you has improved. You gotta love that.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Vivek,

to a certain extent it looks like it has allowed you to get closer to your subjects ... and that always is a good thing.

Bob
 
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Vivek

Guest
Why quitting photography if there is improvement ? Self destructing behavior ?
You did not get what I said. No, I do not agree with what you said. If you are convinced that a few snaps from the past month is better than anything else before, fine. That is your opinion.

While I strive to better myself everyday, I am not bound to RX1R II or any particular device.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To get back to the topic of the defective camera..

Finally a reply:

Dear Mr. Iyer,

Thank you for your emails to Sony Support.

We try to respond to every email within 24 hours. Therefore we answer the oldest emails in our inbox the earliest. Whenever a customer sents a new email, his/her case will automatically get out of the queue and will be seen as a new email. Therefore if you'd like a fast answer, it's better not to sent reminders because your case will be viewed later.

This being said, there is no mention of any affected models in our system in reference to the DSC-RX1R.

What is the precise problem you have with your camera? We would like to try and solve this.


...
Astonishing! :bugeyes:
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Astonishing! :bugeyes:
Indeed, bad customer service, they should be ashamed to send such an e-mail (and have such a bone-head policy in place). Also the fact they don't know about a problem for which cameras are being exchanged as we speak in other countries makes you wonder about their internal communication.
As you mentioned "sometimes" they do get it right, but there's plenty other cases they don't :banghead:
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Astonishing! :bugeyes:
Hey Vivec,

I perfectly understand your reaction, I would have made the same decision.

That said, if you perfectly copy-pasted words for words the Sony mail, they speak about the DSC-RX1R and not the DSC-RX1R2.

Supports use to be procedural, cold and dumb. Ask them the question :)
 
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Vivek

Guest
Hey Vivec,

I perfectly understand your reaction, I would have made the same decision.

That said, if you perfectly copy-pasted words for words the Sony mail, they speak about the DSC-RX1R and not the DSC-RX1R2.

Supports use to be procedural, cold and dumb. Ask them the question :)
I reminded them of that specifying that it is the latest variety with a 42mp sensor. :rolleyes:
 

ohnri

New member
To me, it is axiomatic that a specific camera can improve one's photography.

For photos of my kids, some cameras simply work a lot better than others.

For action photos the same holds true as well as low light photography.

In fact, even for just plain vanilla, good light, everyday shots I have found that I take better images with some gear than I do with other gear.

Sometimes I have upgraded my gear only to find it does not work as well in my hands.

Fortunately, the current Sony A7r2 and A7s2 are both cameras that work incredibly well for me.

-Bill
 
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Vivek

Guest
To me, it is axiomatic that a specific camera can improve one's photography.
Could we stick to the topic on hand please?

This seems like a train wreck going with wild imaginations of people who have no clue about my personal situation. It is not the effing camera.
 

Annna T

Active member
You did not get what I said. No, I do not agree with what you said. If you are convinced that a few snaps from the past month is better than anything else before, fine. That is your opinion.

While I strive to better myself everyday, I am not bound to RX1R II or any particular device.

:
That is why until now I kept my impression for me, waiting to see more. The fact you wrote that you won't keep the camera prompted me to say it earlier. (May be a little too early granted..). That camera seemed to suit you well and my impression is "too bad if you get rid of it".
 

ohnri

New member
Could we stick to the topic on hand please?

This seems like a train wreck going with wild imaginations of people who have no clue about my personal situation. It is not the effing camera.
This was one of the several topics that have meandered through this thread. Multiple side topics are common to all threads on all forums as well as virtually all discussions of any kind on any subject.

I reviewed my comments and feel they are reasonable.

Regarding the Rx1r2 specifically ...

Expecting a refund after considerable use for an issue that was never a problem and which, in any event, is shortly to be resolved by replacing the camera with a new one does strike me as slipping into the category of asking for too much.

Regarding the potential future issue of dust, I suspect dust can make it's sneaky way into any camera no matter how well it is sealed against the light. Having a known light leak would seem to make that more likely however.

As a broad condemnation of Sony, I refuse to agree. I can only wish Leica had offered the same deal when I was never able to get the right colors from my M8. Even my M9 still needed the filters at times. Nikon never came to bat when I had focusing issues with my D800. No firmware fix on my D4 to bring the AF up to or close to D4s spec was ever made available either. Olympus left me hanging with my orphaned and, supposedly, "pro" level 4/3's system.

On the other hand, Sony's recent quick firmware response to the sunspot problem in the A7s2 when shooting in PAL video mode was encouraging. As was the firmware update which decreased the incidence of overheating while shooting 4K video. Their fast action to replace any light leaking Rx1r2 cameras also impresses me as very positive.

I agree with others that Sony appears to need to address some ongoing issues with lens variability. Also, I think the Zeiss lenses need, as a group, to start showing even better performance for their price point. But, overall, I feel Sony is working hard to make a place in this tough market and putting out credible products at a surprising rate.

Best wishes on getting whatever you wish, be it a full refund or anything else.

-Bill
 
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