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Thread: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

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    Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Here is an example of light leak through the popped up EVF.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    ISO 16000, 1/3s, f/3.2, Processed normally via C1

    A suitable filter was on the lens that blocks the right amount of ambient light while light from a 3w LED was being shone at the EVF.

    Our Jim DE might ask what are the chances of such a capture and what does it prove?

    So, here is a dark frame capture (the lens was secured further with a thick wade of black cloth).

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    As obtained and resized for web display.

    I have requested Sony.nl if they would refund me in full when I return the camera and am awaiting a response.
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    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quite amazing, really. I hope that Sony will make this right for all the early adopters.

    Thanks for posting!
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    So much for being a beta tester.



    [ I can't hold it any longer and am subscribing to diggiloyd so that I can make informed choices in the future!

    Should have listened to him as well on that Leica sensor problem. ]
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    So much for being a beta tester.



    [ I can't hold it any longer and am subscribing to diggiloyd so that I can make informed choices in the future!

    Should have listened to him as well on that Leica sensor problem. ]

    So Vivek, once you have your refund which camera will you get instead? Q? None?
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    So Vivek, once you have your refund which camera will you get instead? Q? None?
    IF I have a refund, I will post on that after having the cash in hand.

    It is worthwhile to read what Fred posted here:
    http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1409115

    If your camera serial is within the above range, I would send it in. If light passes through the EVF opening, dust could reach the sensor as well.
    Also, there could be other 'silent' fixes.
    There is absolute silence from Sony.nl! That is why I am asking for a refund.
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Thanks Vivek. Great points.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Someone called Sony I think it was Fred and they are replacing them not repairing them. It's what they should be doing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Digital Still Camera DSC-RX1RM2 Notification

    Sony eSupport - DSC-RX1RM2 - News & Alerts
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Someone called Sony I think it was Fred and they are replacing them not repairing them. It's what they should be doing.
    I just got off the phone with Sony and can confirm this. I have my return authorization and shipping label.

    Matt

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Does the warranty period start afresh (they can't kill 2 months out of 12 in the US, can they?) ?
    Last edited by Vivek; 20th January 2016 at 13:14.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    .
    OK, my camera was in the problem batch and, when forced, also exhibited the light leak, although not to the degree that Vivek's pics show. I never saw any problem in normal use and hated returning it but do think it's the smart thing to do. I love the camera and like to think that the replacement will have been subjected to a serious bonus-round of QA testing as I'm sure Sony doesn't want this to happen again...

    Vivek does asking for a refund mean that you regret your purchase and would like to get out from under it? I think that would surprise many here...

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Lack of light proofing, to me is a big let down, Jim.

    How can Sony be considered reliable if they are not capable of achieving this fundamental requirement for a camera? Having opened up several cameras for IR, UV or monochrome modifications, I am quite aware of what is undeneath the skin. I can overlook the missing screws, lack chassis and such in a Sony camera but a light leak in a premium camera is a bit too much. As mentioned above, if there is light leak, there is no guarantee that dust will not see the sensor.
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Vivek my opinion wjich you can ignore and please take this in the right spirit given. Your crazy get the replacement . You loved the thing shot some great images with it . Why deny yourself that pleasure and imagery because they discovered a issue . All on there own I may add and turned around and doing exactly what they should. Replace all the affected units. Honestly we should be applauding them on doing the right thing on a missed issue on production. As you can tell they caught it and stopped production until they figured out the cause.

    Anyway my friend you should get the replacement . Enjoy the hell out of it and certainly love the images and pleasure you have been getting out of it. You have seemed very happy with it till now. That's my thoughts

    Please take all that as just a opinion.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Hi Vivek, I think Guy's advice is spot on! My 2 cents.
    Look at the bright side. After all, Sony is owning up to this particular issue.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Guy, K-H, I do value good wishes and well meant advice. There is no price on that! Thank you! Just as well, no one can buy enthusiasm and trust.

    Sony have not responded to my emails as of now. So, no, they are not owning up to anything as far as I am concerned.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Sorry Vivek to hear that. May be Sony NL is the problem. I would escalate to one level above NL.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Might take a day or 2 to get everything in place with returns. Certainly can have something to do with location.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Vivek, you don't happen to have owned a Leica that ended up needing UV filters, do you? Or a new sensor??

    Kirk

    PS, I've admired your RX1RII work!
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 20th January 2016 at 21:53.
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Vivek I can understand your frustration. It's like buying a new car, enjoying it a lot then coming out of a store to find a big door ding in it. The enthusiasm goes out the window after that and no matter what everytime you look at the car you see the door ding first.

    No excuse for Sony over there not responding to your inquiries. So you are sort of double downed on a issue not of your making. This would leave a bad taste in any customers mouth.

    That said as Guy pointed out you really loved that camera prior to finding out about the light leak. I think I remember you stating it appeared to be the perfect camera for you or words to that effect. If it was the perfect camera with a unknown flaw just think how good it could be if Sony replaces the one you have with a new improved version without a light leak? But I do understand how the "glow" may if left this product for you.

    We try and research products that fulfill our needs and wants, spend our money, but no matter how well we do the research there is always the issue of taking our chances with new product releases. Some one at Sony lost their job with good reason for this screw up I am sure but that does little to bring back a disappointed customers enthuesiasm. All a company can do it correct the issue and offer a replacement. They can't restore a customers glow of confidence.

    Vivek you will have to do what makes you feel the best.... And only you can make that decision. I am truly sorry that this has happened to you... I don't like to see this sort of issue happen to anyone who buys any kind of newly manufactured products.
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Problem really is this stuff has hit every camera company at one time or another. Nikon, Leica , canon, Sony and the list goes on but I can't remember a company stopping production and fixing a issue without a grand scale of complaints and Internet sky is falling discussions. Actually this is pretty unique but yet once again we see another round of IQ issues within these companies. Some far worse than this or let's say the best solution yet is a full replacement. Even though I don't own this or have to deal with it wish is unfortunate for those affect. But I still have to give them some credit for doing the right thing and going forward it does give me more confidence in them about there customers value. Not saying it won't happen again but I like the response. I had 2 Leica M8 besides both of them spent 6 months in Germany getting fixed , it was flawed right out of the gate and the solution was 2 filters which was **** at the end of the day.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    I have to say they seem to have been pretty quick off the mark with accepting the problem and I remember that firmware updates came fairly quickly to solve some of the focussing issues with A7rII and IBIS not working with certain lenses on the A7II. I also remember when I bought the fuji X100 just after it released and they found a problem with the Iris mechanism it took just 4 days to get it fixed from notifying them to getting the camera back. On the other hand I believe Nikon dragged their heals of a very longtime before admitting to issues with the shutter on the D600. I only wish that Sony would apply this sort of zeal to improving QC on their lenses and generally updating firmware (like fuji) but it does seem that they only really go after issues that will effect sales of a new product.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    I have mixed feelings on this problem. On one hand I feel this should have been picked up in their testing of the new EVF and steps taken to ensure its not possible to have a light leak from it. Then on the other I think it's great Sony are being proactive and fixing this issue.
    Craig Slingsby
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Somebody or group seriously dropped the ball on this one but Sony's rapid response and offer to replace all affected units is essentially all they can do as a company for their customers. It is unfortunate this happened but it does happen time to time in nearly every form of manufacturing. The probability of it happening today with worldwide markets and outsourcing is even greater than it once was. Design teams and parts manufacturers may be geographically halfway around the world apart trying to communicate at a distance to create a part or component that matches a part or component created on the other half of the world. The customer doesn't care about the complexity of today's manufacturing processes and they shouldn't. All they want is a quality product that works everytime they require it to. In the case of Sony and this specific product they failed at this customer requirement right out of the gate. It is unfortunate for all involved but all they can do as a company is essentially what we are seeing them do to make this right. The anger and lack of customer confidence is natural and is to be expected. Sony now has to rebuild what they may of lost in their customer base which will take time. You can do a million things right as a manufacturer but it only takes one issue like this to put them in a hole they have to work their way out of over a much longer period of time. Everything they do now will be more scrutinized by their customers and potential ones who may buy their product. This could be the straw that causes them to look at all aspects of their production quality and tighten everything up to make them higher and more consistent in their build quality. We will see if it does because certainly they do have a process that is not as robust in their lens building as it should be otherwise we would not see as many posts about decentering.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Jim,

    This is a camera made in Japan by Sony who touted that a dedicated team of engineers are involved in its assembly.

    The manufacturing process ought to be simpler for a P&S cam compared to many others.

    There is no one at Sony testing the cameras properly before shipping them off.

    The other camera that got announced the A7s II was showing the Sun as a dark spot. Luckily for Sony, though dreadful, was just a FW update.

    They still are averse to offering any FW updates for their older cameras as David notes. All the shouts are falling on deaf ears.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Vivek, The manufacturing process should be as you think it is and what actually happens should be completely invisible to its customers. What actually happens from design to the first units reaching the customer may be far more complex than what you or I think.

    Modern manufacturing develop manufacturing processes that are essentially error and mistake proof. These processes remove the need to have one person checking someone else's work IF the process is well designed and robustly executed. The days of 100 in facility inspections behind 500 processes have been gone since the 80's in western manufacturing. Being as far eastern manufacturing was initially formed from western processes I can pretty much assure that they too don't use people to check other people's processes except in a few critical areas.

    It would be nice if modern manufacturing would be as simplistic as people may think it is using rational ideas. Sadly it is usually far from that easy or rational. I could bet everything there are not people standing on the end of the line checking every conceivable failure possibility a product may experience. That is done in early R&D and my bet is something was missed from prototype to v1 production units.
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Vivek my opinion wjich you can ignore and please take this in the right spirit given. Your crazy get the replacement . You loved the thing shot some great images with it . Why deny yourself that pleasure and imagery because they discovered a issue .

    (...)
    I'll chime in here, don't be too impulsive Vivek. Cool down before taking any decision. Here is the killer argument :

    It is rare that getting a new camera improves ones photography (especially now that most digital cameras are delivering HQ pictures). But during the past week my feeling was that your street pictures had improved using that RX1r2.

    In your shoes I'd keep it once the light leak problem is solved..

    (Unless you want to try the soon to be announced Olympus Pen F and add it some lenses) <grin>
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    One more statistical fact about human inspection. 100% visual inspection is only 89% effective. This means if I put you or myself behind guy to check one assembly process he may do on a production line over time 20% of these items would be missed.

    Do a google search on what 1% defect rate means in manufacturing processes and see if you could survive with 100 inspectors only being 80% effective. This is why today we develop manufacturing processes that are mistake and error proof in their design. If something is done wrong or incomplete today heels and sirens go off and the line shuts down automatically. This is how we improved on human 80% effectiveness.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    But during the past week my feeling was that your street pictures had improved using that RX1r2.
    If I can be convinced of that, it is time to quit photography altogether!

    Please tell me that you are not being serious here!

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    If I can be convinced of that, it is time to quit photography altogether!

    Please tell me that you are not being serious here!
    Yes I'm serious.. I made that reflection to myself and thought I'd wait one more week to see if it hold up before writing it. I thought the reason was that the camera suited you and your kind of subject better. I found that your framing was getting better (although i know that good framing isn't necessarily what street photographers are after).

    Why quitting photography if there is improvement ? Self destructing behavior ?
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    I have to say I thought your work was getting better as well, now should a camera have that effect. The answer is no but the comfort level and the good feeling you have for the tool you can grow from that . Maybe better said if you really like the camera and the way it handles than your abilities improve because it puts you more in a creative mode than fighting technical issues with camera. It's not really the camera it's your abilities that improve from it. This is actually how it should be by putting all that stuff aside and it frees your mind. This is a good thing.

    I have to agree with Annna your work has improved and man if that happens it's a blessing. We all want to improve so something internally for you has improved. You gotta love that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Vivek,

    to a certain extent it looks like it has allowed you to get closer to your subjects ... and that always is a good thing.

    Bob
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post

    Why quitting photography if there is improvement ? Self destructing behavior ?
    You did not get what I said. No, I do not agree with what you said. If you are convinced that a few snaps from the past month is better than anything else before, fine. That is your opinion.

    While I strive to better myself everyday, I am not bound to RX1R II or any particular device.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To get back to the topic of the defective camera..

    Finally a reply:

    Dear Mr. Iyer,

    Thank you for your emails to Sony Support.

    We try to respond to every email within 24 hours. Therefore we answer the oldest emails in our inbox the earliest. Whenever a customer sents a new email, his/her case will automatically get out of the queue and will be seen as a new email. Therefore if you'd like a fast answer, it's better not to sent reminders because your case will be viewed later.

    This being said, there is no mention of any affected models in our system in reference to the DSC-RX1R.

    What is the precise problem you have with your camera? We would like to try and solve this.


    ...
    Astonishing!
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Astonishing!
    Indeed, bad customer service, they should be ashamed to send such an e-mail (and have such a bone-head policy in place). Also the fact they don't know about a problem for which cameras are being exchanged as we speak in other countries makes you wonder about their internal communication.
    As you mentioned "sometimes" they do get it right, but there's plenty other cases they don't
    My Pics
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Astonishing!
    Hey Vivec,

    I perfectly understand your reaction, I would have made the same decision.

    That said, if you perfectly copy-pasted words for words the Sony mail, they speak about the DSC-RX1R and not the DSC-RX1R2.

    Supports use to be procedural, cold and dumb. Ask them the question
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Hey Vivec,

    I perfectly understand your reaction, I would have made the same decision.

    That said, if you perfectly copy-pasted words for words the Sony mail, they speak about the DSC-RX1R and not the DSC-RX1R2.

    Supports use to be procedural, cold and dumb. Ask them the question
    I reminded them of that specifying that it is the latest variety with a 42mp sensor.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    To me, it is axiomatic that a specific camera can improve one's photography.

    For photos of my kids, some cameras simply work a lot better than others.

    For action photos the same holds true as well as low light photography.

    In fact, even for just plain vanilla, good light, everyday shots I have found that I take better images with some gear than I do with other gear.

    Sometimes I have upgraded my gear only to find it does not work as well in my hands.

    Fortunately, the current Sony A7r2 and A7s2 are both cameras that work incredibly well for me.

    -Bill
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by ohnri View Post
    To me, it is axiomatic that a specific camera can improve one's photography.
    Could we stick to the topic on hand please?

    This seems like a train wreck going with wild imaginations of people who have no clue about my personal situation. It is not the effing camera.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    You did not get what I said. No, I do not agree with what you said. If you are convinced that a few snaps from the past month is better than anything else before, fine. That is your opinion.

    While I strive to better myself everyday, I am not bound to RX1R II or any particular device.

    :
    That is why until now I kept my impression for me, waiting to see more. The fact you wrote that you won't keep the camera prompted me to say it earlier. (May be a little too early granted..). That camera seemed to suit you well and my impression is "too bad if you get rid of it".
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  39. #39
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Could we stick to the topic on hand please?

    This seems like a train wreck going with wild imaginations of people who have no clue about my personal situation. It is not the effing camera.
    This was one of the several topics that have meandered through this thread. Multiple side topics are common to all threads on all forums as well as virtually all discussions of any kind on any subject.

    I reviewed my comments and feel they are reasonable.

    Regarding the Rx1r2 specifically ...

    Expecting a refund after considerable use for an issue that was never a problem and which, in any event, is shortly to be resolved by replacing the camera with a new one does strike me as slipping into the category of asking for too much.

    Regarding the potential future issue of dust, I suspect dust can make it's sneaky way into any camera no matter how well it is sealed against the light. Having a known light leak would seem to make that more likely however.

    As a broad condemnation of Sony, I refuse to agree. I can only wish Leica had offered the same deal when I was never able to get the right colors from my M8. Even my M9 still needed the filters at times. Nikon never came to bat when I had focusing issues with my D800. No firmware fix on my D4 to bring the AF up to or close to D4s spec was ever made available either. Olympus left me hanging with my orphaned and, supposedly, "pro" level 4/3's system.

    On the other hand, Sony's recent quick firmware response to the sunspot problem in the A7s2 when shooting in PAL video mode was encouraging. As was the firmware update which decreased the incidence of overheating while shooting 4K video. Their fast action to replace any light leaking Rx1r2 cameras also impresses me as very positive.

    I agree with others that Sony appears to need to address some ongoing issues with lens variability. Also, I think the Zeiss lenses need, as a group, to start showing even better performance for their price point. But, overall, I feel Sony is working hard to make a place in this tough market and putting out credible products at a surprising rate.

    Best wishes on getting whatever you wish, be it a full refund or anything else.

    -Bill
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    With all that well-said, now may we let Vivek make up his own mind and let the thread go to sleep?

    Sweet dreams,

    Kirk
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  41. #41
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Dear Mr. Iyer,

    Thank you for your emails to Sony Support.

    We try to respond to every email within 24 hours. Therefore we answer the oldest emails in our inbox the earliest. Whenever a customer sents a new email, his/her case will automatically get out of the queue and will be seen as a new email. Therefore if you'd like a fast answer, it's better not to sent reminders because your case will be viewed later.

    This being said, there is no mention of any affected models in our system in reference to the DSC-RX1R.

    What is the precise problem you have with your camera? We would like to try and solve this.

    ...

    Could it be that they do not know you are talking about the NEWER DSC-RX1RII?????? See what can happen with written communications between two parties in different locations...... Add to that a possible language difference and this mis understandings can me multiplied.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    With all that well-said, now may we let Vivek make up his own mind and let the thread go to sleep?

    Sweet dreams,

    Kirk
    Cheers, Kirk!

    From earlier today.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    A7s, Jupiter-12 35/2.8, The Hague

    [For those who do not know- Jupiter-12 is a Russian copy of a Zeiss Biogon (35/2.8). ]
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    This being said, there is no mention of any affected models in our system in reference to the DSC-RX1R.

    What is the precise problem you have with your camera? We would like to try and solve this.
    [/I]
    ...

    Could it be that they do not know you are talking about the NEWER DSC-RX1RII??????
    What has language got to do with it? My kid can count in >5 European languages. The numbers add up exactly the same way.

    Apparently the news has not reached about a new model yet. Even though it is registered with them!

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Big company wrong person that has no clue. I called Sony last month did not even know they had a Pro division. Believe me I worked for a Fortune 200 company and no one even knew the full product line and I was under the communications dept. so go figure that one. Lol
    Not unusual
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    I was back referencing to my earlier post when design teams are a half a world away from some component parts manufacturers who build parts for a product assembled in yet another location..... not your specific email and reply alone.

    Language differences may not make a difference over in Europe but I assure you they do over here. I can't tell you the number of times language and non-face to face communications has caused confusion or even build issues in manufacturing when outsourced suppliers are spread out all over the world speaking numerous languages.

    I have never been to Europe and doubt if I ever will....... so I have to assume citizens over there are more accustom to learning and speaking more than one language. Here most take the required 2 years of a foreign language in high school and forget most of it before they graduate. We just don't have to use various languages here so learning them enough to be fluent in them is only done by those wanting to learn them for other reasons.

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Guy, their customer service over there may be outsourced to a 3rd party like it has been here ........ I don't rely on info gained from these 3rd party customer service reps. They only know what their managers let them know. If I want accurate info I call the head of the USA Sony Pro Service Division and she has always had accurate info I could depend on.

    I worked in management in a fortune 500 major manufacturing industry and our people were usually always kept in the loop if they took the time to read the notices

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Vivek,

    Thanks for posting this. Mine is affected also, although to be honest I never it saw the issue in real pictures.

    I'm trying to get it turned around for the replacement camera quickly. Just got off the phone with Sony.

    I'm planning on taking the both the RX1r ii and the Q to China soon.

    Best,

    Ray
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Good luck, Ray! Hope you will share some pics after your China visit!

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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Hi Vivek,

    In the meantime what about just returning the camera to the dealer you bought it from with your samples, and say you want it repeared or another one. To get things going.

    BTW it is official now! Sony issued an advisory for the RX1R II camera | Photo Rumors

    This problem must have been the delay in delivery. They knew right along!
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    Re: Sony RX1R mk II Light Leak Pictures

    Hi Michiel, They did know and that in my books is cheating. It is one thing (if and when sony.nl acknowledges that such a model actually exists! It may be official in Japan or the US but not here, afaik!) about refund (I would like) or replacement but another to take this camera seriously.

    They killed all the enthusiasm and that damage can not be compensated by Euros or Dollars.

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