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G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

Annna T

Active member
Based on this article

'We want to make lenses that can be used forever': Sony engineer discusses G Master lenses: Digital Photography Review

I am most interested in the GM 85/1.4 lens and wonder size-wise how it compares to the FE 90/2.8 MACRO G?
Click here to see a comparison of their weight and dimension at DPreview :

http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_fe_85mm_1p4_gm&products=sony_fe_90_2p8_macro_g_oss

And here to see a picture comparing both :
http://camerasize.com/compact/#624.512,624.516,ha,t
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
One thing I don't understand here:
The 24-70mm seems to be as large as the A-mount 24-70mm plus adapter, a lens that has a good reputation. Why did they do that? Wouldn't it have made more sense to make something a bit more compact given the compactness of the camera bodies, a fact that has been used extensively when marketing the A7 cameras?

Yes, yes, I know... high-end lenses are getting larger by the minute, but again, Sony has marketed this system as being compact, one of the consequences being the tiny battery. I keep coming back to the idea that an upgraded A99 would have been a more suitable solution for large, heavy lenses.

But that's me.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Wouldn't it have made more sense to make something a bit more compact given the compactness of the camera bodies, a fact that has been used extensively when marketing the A7 cameras?

Yes, yes, I know... high-end lenses are getting larger by the minute, but again, Sony has marketed this system as being compact, one of the consequences being the tiny battery.
If the results do not fit the hypothesis, come up with a new theory. That seems to be the strategy.

"Sensitivity in the palm of your hands!" Appears to be not working in terms of sales to some quarters.
 

jfirneno

Member
One thing I don't understand here:
The 24-70mm seems to be as large as the A-mount 24-70mm plus adapter, a lens that has a good reputation. Why did they do that? Wouldn't it have made more sense to make something a bit more compact given the compactness of the camera bodies, a fact that has been used extensively when marketing the A7 cameras?

Yes, yes, I know... high-end lenses are getting larger by the minute, but again, Sony has marketed this system as being compact, one of the consequences being the tiny battery. I keep coming back to the idea that an upgraded A99 would have been a more suitable solution for large, heavy lenses.

But that's me.
Jorgen thinks Sony lenses are too big and the battery too small? Didn't see that coming.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Jorgen thinks Sony lenses are too big and the battery too small? Didn't see that coming.
What I think isn't very interesting, but this 85mm is going to compete with the Zeiss Batis 85mm which, although two thirds of a stop slower, something that for most photographers using cameras with IBIS and that are capable of clean shots up to several thousand ISO isn't a relevant difference, is 42% lighter and 33% cheaper. Zeiss does tend to make rather good lenses, and to me, that choice, as an amateur or professional photographer, would be so easy that I wouldn't even pick up the brochure for the Sony.

You can always say that this doesn't affect those who want this lens and eventually will buy it. But it does. If not enough people buy it, it won't be profitable for Sony, and if Sony doesn't make money out of this, the progress will slow down, like it did with the A-mount cameras. Ultimately, that would mean less competition for Canon and Nikon who will be able to postpone the launch of their own, inevitable full frame mirrorless alternatives, leaving Sony with less competition in that area.

Leaving Sony alone in this market niche might be a strike of genius by Canon and Nikon. It does give Sony a more or less monopoly, but that monopoly has little value if the niche doesn't increase in size. At the moment, it doesn't. CIPA figures from December 2015 show that total mirrorless sales are 35% of the DSLR numbers, and still, the mirrorless market is shared among 4-5 players while the DSLR market is mostly shared by only 2. These lenses, which I'm sure is of very good quality, will do nothing to change that. The bulk of mirrorless buyers prefer smaller cameras with smaller lenses and mostly won't even know that gear like this exist for their cameras. Canon and Nikon on the other hand have the huge advantage of having their pro gear on exhibition at every major sports event worldwide.

By staying out of full frame mirrorless, they leave Sony fighting this uphill battle alone, and every mistake they do will cost them. Honestly, I believe launching these bulky, heavy lenses is a mistake. They should look to Leica, and develop some compact, state-of-the-art f/2 primes that would make professionals go "oh" and "ah". The dpr crowd will be less than impressed of course, but most of them won't be buying these big hunks anyway, so there's really nothing to lose.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
One thing I don't understand here:
The 24-70mm seems to be as large as the A-mount 24-70mm plus adapter, a lens that has a good reputation. Why did they do that? Wouldn't it have made more sense to make something a bit more compact given the compactness of the camera bodies, a fact that has been used extensively when marketing the A7 cameras?

Yes, yes, I know... high-end lenses are getting larger by the minute, but again, Sony has marketed this system as being compact, one of the consequences being the tiny battery. I keep coming back to the idea that an upgraded A99 would have been a more suitable solution for large, heavy lenses.

But that's me.
I believe that the lenses are larger as they are developed for maximum resolution on high resolution cameras. This is in line with lenses like the Zeiss Otus. I think final verdict should be reserved for production lenses.
 

jfirneno

Member
What I think isn't very interesting, but this 85mm is going to compete with the Zeiss Batis 85mm which, although two thirds of a stop slower, something that for most photographers using cameras with IBIS and that are capable of clean shots up to several thousand ISO isn't a relevant difference, is 42% lighter and 33% cheaper. Zeiss does tend to make rather good lenses, and to me, that choice, as an amateur or professional photographer, would be so easy that I wouldn't even pick up the brochure for the Sony.

You can always say that this doesn't affect those who want this lens and eventually will buy it. But it does. If not enough people buy it, it won't be profitable for Sony, and if Sony doesn't make money out of this, the progress will slow down, like it did with the A-mount cameras. Ultimately, that would mean less competition for Canon and Nikon who will be able to postpone the launch of their own, inevitable full frame mirrorless alternatives, leaving Sony with less competition in that area.

Leaving Sony alone in this market niche might be a strike of genius by Canon and Nikon. It does give Sony a more or less monopoly, but that monopoly has little value if the niche doesn't increase in size. At the moment, it doesn't. CIPA figures from December 2015 show that total mirrorless sales are 35% of the DSLR numbers, and still, the mirrorless market is shared among 4-5 players while the DSLR market is mostly shared by only 2. These lenses, which I'm sure is of very good quality, will do nothing to change that. The bulk of mirrorless buyers prefer smaller cameras with smaller lenses and mostly won't even know that gear like this exist for their cameras. Canon and Nikon on the other hand have the huge advantage of having their pro gear on exhibition at every major sports event worldwide.

By staying out of full frame mirrorless, they leave Sony fighting this uphill battle alone, and every mistake they do will cost them. Honestly, I believe launching these bulky, heavy lenses is a mistake. They should look to Leica, and develop some compact, state-of-the-art f/2 primes that would make professionals go "oh" and "ah". The dpr crowd will be less than impressed of course, but most of them won't be buying these big hunks anyway, so there's really nothing to lose.
Yes and you have expressed all of these arguments over and over since the A7 series was launched. I would say that after the Sony users on the Sony forum have heard your arguments about how awful the A7 cameras are for the hundredth time we understand your opinion. But despite your pronouncements about our doomed camera line we persevere in our foolish behavior. We buy the cameras and lenses and take pictures with them. Do you also go to archery ranges and tell them that guns are better weapons and to bicycle clubs and tell them that cars are faster?

I believe the correct technical term for your behavior is concern-trolling. Now I'm sure it's very enjoyable but I personally think that when taken to extremes it is rude and boring. Wouldn't you be better off telling the folks on the Nikon forum how great the D5 is compared to the A7R 2? That would be spreading joy.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I believe that the lenses are larger as they are developed for maximum resolution on high resolution cameras. This is in line with lenses like the Zeiss Otus. I think final verdict should be reserved for production lenses.
In the real world, people judge a lens from what they see. Sony has let photographers use this lens, photos have been published, that is what people see. If it will be improved before it's sent out to the market, most users will never see that. Only the dedicated enthusiasts will bother to do further research. I may be stupid and lazy, but experience has taught me that most others are at least as stupid and lazy as I am :)
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Yes, yes, I know... high-end lenses are getting larger by the minute, but again, Sony has marketed this system as being compact, one of the consequences being the tiny battery. I keep coming back to the idea that an upgraded A99 would have been a more suitable solution for large, heavy lenses.
But that's me.
That's me too Jorgen.

Image quality being equal, my personal preference is for a camera/lens combo that feels balanced in my hands. Small camera, big & heavy lenses...that does not appeal to me.

I would rather use a DSLR type camera with 24-70/2.8 lens that feels just right than a small mirrorless camera with a lens that is nearly as big as the equivalent DSLR lens. These new Sony lenses have little appeal to me for that reason (I own a Sony A7).

On the other hand, I am still very tempted by the Zeiss Batis 85. :grin:

Gary
 

Lucille

New member
I am going to get a 85mm, and would have owned the Batis by now but could never find one. Now comes the f/1.4 G master lens. Hmmmm....

I want it.

All I care about is pure IQ, and I don't care how big or heavy one is to the other.

The New Sony G master 85mm had better have stellar IQ to beat the Zeiss, if it doesn't, then why would one buy it? Because if the Batis has better IQ, then the Batis wins on everything except light gathering ability.


I want the G master to be better, but time will tell, most of the image samples I see I don't put much stock in, as I remember seeing image samples from my beloved RX1 look like ****, and I know what that GEM
of a camera is capable of.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Here are a couple of other large aperture portrait lenses that I believe are made to handle future high res cameras as well:

Hasselblad/Fujinon HC 110mm f/2.2:
Weight: 780g
Length: 80.5mm
Diameter: 87.5mm
Filter thread: 77mm

Leica Summicron-S 100mm f/2:
Weight: 910g
Length: 102.0mm
Diameter: 91.0mm
Filter thread: 82mm

Sony 85mm f/1.4 GM:
Weight: 820g
Length: 108.0mm
Diameter: 90.0mm
Filter thread: 77mm

Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AF-S:
Weight: 595g
Length: 83.8mm
Diameter: 86.4mm
Filter thread: 77mm

So, the Sony is slightly larger but also slightly lighter than the Leica, which covers a larger sensor and for sure must be designed to handle larger resolution sensors in the future. The ancient Hasselfuji which covers 60x45mm is clearly no slouch either. And the Nikon? There are reasons why people still buy those clunky, old flip-flap cameras you know. It's cheaper too :p

So they've made a portrait lens as large and heavy as a medium format lens of similar caliber. Does it bother me? Not one bit, but it has given me yet another reason not to consider the A7. 85mm is one of my favourite focal lengths, and the Nikkor suddenly looks almost pocketable :ROTFL:

Edit: Maybe you should ban me from the Sony forum, so that you can enjoy your gear without having to see my poisonous mails on every page :LOL:
 
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Vivek

Guest
There is a pricey 500/4 G lens from Sony. Is it there thereto compete with those of Canon or Nikon?

Hell, no!
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Nah! It's good to have criticism and POV from a different perspective. You're alright.
Agree, it's fun to read all the different perspectives. No harm done if I (or someone else) doesn't agree with them. Would be pretty boring if we all thought the same.
 
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Vivek

Guest
So they've made a portrait lens as large and heavy as a medium format lens of similar caliber. Does it bother me? Not one bit, but it has given me yet another reason not to consider the A7. 85mm is one of my favourite focal lengths, and the Nikkor suddenly looks almost pocketable :ROTFL:
Are you talking about the Seiss designed, Cosina made Otus? It is just a manual focus lens, better on a mirrorless cam but made for DSLRs for reasons that only Cosina know! :ROTFL:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
A few responses to previous posts without parsing words, whinning or grousing about the whiners ... :ROTFL:

I'll say again ... do NOT dismiss an A99 replacement. Wouldn't surprise me if "the higher resolution future" that Sony referenced came in an A99 replacement first. A FE mount mirrorless that also took A mount lenses, with all the features of a Pro spec camera (dual cards, larger battery capacity, more articulated LCD, and ... retain the A99's freaking PC port that is missing on all the A7 cameras). More Leica SL like than A7ish sized ... which these new lenses will balance nicely on. Think "system" rather than "this verses that".

I used a A99 and ZA lens system as my work-horse wedding/event/location portrait for years. When I got the A7R it never was able to effectively perform at the same effortless level for that "real world" work. It was relegated to back-up service.

Since semi-retiring I sold the A99 and all the ZA lenses except the ZA 24-70/2.8 (which I now use on A7 cameras via the LA-EA-3/4 adapters).

I've now committed to the A7R-II for what paying work I still do ... meaning anything with money attached to it to help pay for these toys. I've already done a number of paying gigs with the A7R-II.

That criteria for use may differ from many here, but keep in mind that beyond full time Pros like Guy and a few other GetDpi members, there are a zillion semi-pros out there making money shooting all sorts of paying jobs ... mostly with Canon 5Ds with Zooms, plus a few fast aperture Primes. Gear in the same price range as the A99 was, and the A7R-II is now.

The good news is how well the A7R-II camera has been improved. More useable in difficult situations. Better high ISO and IBIS are great selling points for available light work! However, it still lags even the older A99, and most certainly the CaNikon mid-price work-horses in a few key functional ways:

It is unbalanced with faster aperture lenses and decent hot-shoe lighting solutions. Small and unbalanced is more fatiguing than bigger and balanced when shooting on the run for any extended period of time (which is almost all the time at a wedding or multiple location shoots).

The battery situation IS an issue. A pocket full of batteries doesn't help when you are pressed for time and in the middle of a critical part of shoot and have to stop even for a minute. It nags at the back of your mind to keep an eye on the battery ... which I never had to do with Canon, Nikon or even my Leica S camera (which goes all day on one battery with lots to spare). Besides, I HATE changing batteries in the heat of battle because it's where human screw-ups can happen to corrupt a card. The one hope is that someone will eventually pack more juice into the same sized battery:thumbup:

Sony remains an orphan when it comes to off-camera lighting solutions. CaNikon both have radio speed-light systems, and Profoto offers TTL/HSS strobe solutions for both, but not Sony. The A99 has a PC port which I use to connected a Profoto sender to fire a key mobile strobe light, and then use a TTL speed-light in the hot shoe for fill. The A7R/A7R-II has no PC port which is a MAJOR issue for me with no solution in sight.

The A7R-II's menu remains a dog's breakfast of unintuitive layout that beggars the imagination as to why? I decided to have the locations of key menu functions often needed when under pressure Tattooed on my hand ... but decided that wouldn't work since they change it from camera to camera:banghead:

All things considered, the A7R-II is a great camera and I kinda like it ... but leaves room for a more pro-spec oriented body to go with these new G-Master lenses. Wouldn't kill them to offer a radio speed-light solution either.

- Marc
 
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