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G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

Knorp

Well-known member
Could have been worse though ...

Re-thinking basic assumptions

‘For the G Master lenses we decided we would assess the spatial frequency at 50 lines per mm,’ says Ohtake: ‘Usually lens makers, including ourselves, evaluate lenses at 10 and 30 lpmm (or 10, 20 and 40 for Carl Zeiss-branded optics).’

‘At the start of the process we all agreed we should change the spacial frequency [to a more challenging target],’ he says: ’but which is best to get good performance? We could design for 100 lpmm but the lens would become very bulky and long - which might not be a very practical lens. A balance of the size and the optical performance was very important.’

The target of 50 lpmm wasn’t dictated by the company’s 40MP camera or 4K video, he says. ’All our FE lenses were designed for at least 40MP. Because we have an image sensor team within Sony, we get to see the sensor roadmap, so we’ve been designing for this all along with FE. With the G Master we’d like to make lenses that can be used forever.’.’
 
What you are saying is in reality that photography to a large degree has been replaced by pixel peeping, and I think you are right. While I find it fascinating to see all the detail that I can get using the 36MP camera, it has little or no artistic value. When I'm not doing photos for a client or shooting stock, I'm mostly back to the older 12MP variety. It's just as satisfying, and 8 years ago it was state-of-the-art.

What I would have liked to see is an 85mm along the same lines as the 55mm f/1.8. It can't be that difficult, can it?
Ain't the Batis good enough? Or is it still too big and heavy? Besides the physics, a smaller 85 is possible, but again, compromised performance would be there. Should Sony release a compromised lens at this point given the existing Batis? I think not. After this gap is filled, a more affordable (probably much slower too) 85 might be next (a slightly tweaked A-mount Sony 85/2.8).

I'm going to pre-order the GM 85. I am not going to hike with it. But I deem it would fit perfectly to its intended use, portraiture.

From another 12MP shooter :D
 
With these new lenses, Sony is chasing the same crowd that they were notably unsuccessful in chasing with their A mount cameras and lenses. This, to me, is a big mistake. For every 24-70 F/2.8 FE zoom they sell at $2,200, I believe they would sell 5x or more that number if they released an F/4 24-70 zoom with spectacular performance that was half the size and charged the same $2,200.
I'm not sure about that math. People whined and moaned about the price tag of the FE 55/1.8, even if it's wildly better than any of the current 50/1.8. An f/4 zoom, no matter how good, would see a lot of resistances at $2,200. After all, f/8 would give the same performance regardless :D.
 

ohnri

New member
These will possibly be the highest quality IQ lenses of their types ever made.

I welcome lenses like this into the native Sony FE mount universe without reservation.

No one is going to make me carry or use any lens I don't want to. But, to have the option to put what may be the world's finest AF 85mm lens or 24-70 on what is, IMO, the world's best 35mm sensor in the A7r2 and shoot with Eye Detect is incredibly compelling.

And I can grab stabilized 4K video, with or without a crop factor.

Or I can pop the 85 f/1.4 onto an A7s2 and get lowlight portraits and video that no other camera can capture.

These lenses are incredibly exciting and show a commitment from Sony to advance the state of the art in lens design and manufacture.

I am celebrating.

-Bill
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
These will possibly be the highest quality IQ lenses of their types ever made.

I welcome lenses like this into the native Sony FE mount universe without reservation.

No one is going to make me carry or use any lens I don't want to. But, to have the option to put what may be the world's finest AF 85mm lens or 24-70 on what is, IMO, the world's best 35mm sensor in the A7r2 and shoot with Eye Detect is incredibly compelling.

And I can grab stabilized 4K video, with or without a crop factor.

Or I can pop the 85 f/1.4 onto an A7s2 and get lowlight portraits and video that no other camera can capture.

These lenses are incredibly exciting and show a commitment from Sony to advance the state of the art in lens design and manufacture.

I am celebrating.

-Bill
Right there with you Bill. Im most likely getting the 85 1.4 and the 24-70

I can't tell you the statement Sony just made to the world. There after everyones *** and thats a company i want to do business with.

Everyone sat back for several years smoking there cigars watching the money roll in while Sony just jumped all over them and they will not be able to respond so quickly. I like Nikon and Canon but this is on them, Sony is doing what there after , market share and there going to get it
 

UHDR

New member
the camera store youtube channel just posted some impressions of the new products. when mounted on a7rII, the 24-70mm didnt look as big as i initial thought. may be is it acceptable from size point of view. now let see how well it delivers in IQ :grin:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
In the real world, people judge a lens from what they see. Sony has let photographers use this lens, photos have been published, that is what people see. If it will be improved before it's sent out to the market, most users will never see that. Only the dedicated enthusiasts will bother to do further research. I may be stupid and lazy, but experience has taught me that most others are at least as stupid and lazy as I am :)
Most people aren't active forum followers. So I think you're making a apples/oranges argument.

The reality is that people interested in a product usually ingest it all while they're deciding (sort of like all the tests you see on MF gear or Leica stuff that Jono does.) That's why thread like the "Fun with..." are so popular. People like to see what's possible with different gear and/or techniques.
 

Zony user

New member
Right there with you Bill. Im most likely getting the 85 1.4 and the 24-70

I can't tell you the statement Sony just made to the world. There after everyones *** and thats a company i want to do business with.

Everyone sat back for several years smoking there cigars watching the money roll in while Sony just jumped all over them and they will not be able to respond so quickly. I like Nikon and Canon but this is on them, Sony is doing what there after , market share and there going to get it
Yes, and in their press release Sony showed slides of their camera division have grown by 43% in 2015 while the DSLR market have shrunk by 13%. When they release the A9 with a pro body, it's game over for Canikon.
 

dmward

Member
When I was shooting with Fuji XT-1 I got the Fujinon F2.8 zooms that are equivalent to the 24-70 and 70-200.
The 16-50 is not that much smaller and about 3/4 the weight of the Sony announced lens.

The two camera bodies are similar size.

I didn't find the F2.8 Fujinon unwieldy on the XT-1 and I doubt that the GM will be unwieldy on the A7RII.
Using a battery grip will certainly make it workable for me.

I think someone has already said this, but for me, the bottom line is that I buy and use lenses based on the job and kind of pictures I want. What they weigh and their size is a reality with which I deal.
 

Lucille

New member
Prosumers and wannabes (or think-they-bees) and newbee's look for the golden ring on the product merry go round far more than paid professionals. They think that equipment is the holy grail and will magically propel them to starhood. It won't, it can't , and everyone knows it is what is going on in the 12 inches behind the tools that is the only thing that can do that.

...

I would rather be a think-they-bee with a Sony Rx1R MII, A7R MII, 85mm /1.4, 24-70 f2/2.8 then a wish I could bee without this fantastic gear that has led me to starhood on several camera forums and legendary status on facebook. For some, when the hepkitty speaks, they listen!


Thanks Sony, keep em coming.....
 

Jim DE

New member
I would rather be a think-they-bee with a Sony Rx1R MII, A7R MII, 85mm /1.4, 24-70 f2/2.8 then a wish I could bee without this fantastic gear that has led me to starhood on several camera forums and legendary status on facebook. For some, when the hepkitty speaks, they listen!


Thanks Sony, keep em coming.....
Lucille you could get magnificent results with a wood box and a pinhole in it... There's much going on in the 12" behind any hardware you may choose to use and that is the golden ring!
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

Ain't the Batis good enough? Or is it still too big and heavy? Besides the physics, a smaller 85 is possible, but again, compromised performance would be there. Should Sony release a compromised lens at this point given the existing Batis? I think not. After this gap is filled, a more affordable (probably much slower too) 85 might be next (a slightly tweaked A-mount Sony 85/2.8).

I'm going to pre-order the GM 85. I am not going to hike with it. But I deem it would fit perfectly to its intended use, portraiture.

From another 12MP shooter :D
Yup, or at least it's much closer. The biggest handicap of the Batis is availability. Sony will promote Sony lenses actively, while mostly connoisseurs will know about the Zeiss lenses. Are Sony and Zeiss splitting up?

- - - Updated - - -

Can't wait for those DXO test results! If these are anything like the new 90/2.8G they will be awesome.
Yup, can't wait to see an enlargement of those charts at the wall of Museum of Modern Art :ROTFL:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Yes, and in their press release Sony showed slides of their camera division have grown by 43% in 2015 while the DSLR market have shrunk by 13%. When they release the A9 with a pro body, it's game over for Canikon.
If the total exchangeable lens camera market is 100, DSLR is roughly 75 and mirrorless 25. If Sony has 40% of the mirrorless market (I don't think it's that high), 43% increase for Sony is around +4% in the total market. 13% decrease for DSLRs in total is then -10% of the total market.

However, according to CIPA, the DSLR sales went down just 8% from 2014 to 2015 as opposed to down 26% from 2013 to 2014. The mirrorless market went up 2% from 2014 to 2015 and down 1% from 2013 to 2014. All figures relate to number of units.

Pro bodies represent only a tiny fraction of these figures, and any change in the pro market will have little or no impact on the total results. In addition, the market now seems to be more stable than before, and something more revolutionary than a pro body would have to happen for this to change. My guess is that full frame mirrorless cameras from Canon and Nikon that are more or less completely integrated with their current system would be that revolution. For Nikon, this is rather easy to do, since the Nikon 1 system is very well integrated and technologywise very advanced. Interestingly, technology that is featured as "new and revolutionary" by other camera manufacturers have sometimes already existed for a while in the V1-V3 cameras, but these cameras are living in the shadows, and it seems like Nikon wants to have it that way. I see them merely as test beds for technology. What they have to do is to make it bigger and equip it with a full frame sensor. I would be very surprised if Canon and Nikon don't have several prototypes being tested already.

When that happens, and given the enormous customer base of those two companies, all the others will have to watch their backs. And this is probably the most important reason why Sony is pushing technology very hard at the moment. They know that when the competition arrives, they will have to be very well prepared. They're a company with around 10% market share in the interchangeable lens market. That can't be more than Minolta had back in the day of film photography.
 
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Zony user

New member
If the total exchangeable lens camera market is 100, DSLR is roughly 75 and mirrorless 25. If Sony has 40% of the mirrorless market (I don't think it's that high), 43% increase for Sony is around +4% in the total market. 13% decrease for DSLRs in total is then -10% of the total market.

However, according to CIPA, the DSLR sales went down just 8% from 2014 to 2015 as opposed to down 26% from 2013 to 2014. The mirrorless market went up 2% from 2014 to 2015 and down 1% from 2013 to 2014. All figures relate to number of units.

Pro bodies represent only a tiny fraction of these figures, and any change in the pro market will have little or no impact on the total results. In addition, the market now seems to be more stable than before, and something more revolutionary than a pro body would have to happen for this to change. My guess is that full frame mirrorless cameras from Canon and Nikon that are more or less completely integrated with their current system would be that revolution. For Nikon, this is rather easy to do, since the Nikon 1 system is very well integrated and technologywise very advanced. Interestingly, technology that is featured as "new and revolutionary" by other camera manufacturers have sometimes already existed for a while in the V1-V3 cameras, but these cameras are living in the shadows, and it seems like Nikon wants to have it that way. I see them merely as test beds for technology. What they have to do is to make it bigger and equip it with a full frame sensor. I would be very surprised if Canon and Nikon don't have several prototypes being tested already.

When that happens, and given the enormous customer base of those two companies, all the others will have to watch their backs. And this is probably the most important reason why Sony is pushing technology very hard at the moment. They know that when the competition arrives, they will have to be very well prepared. They're a company with around 10% market share in the interchangeable lens market. That can't be more than Minolta had back in the day of film photography.
Sony is the only manufacturer growing exponentially. Everyone else is either standing pat or losing significant market share. You can not bunch Sony together with other mirrorless systems because they represent a niche --- the premium/high-end market. Low-end cameras are a dying breed, much like DSLR's.

And no, Canikon will not turn the table. Not with the domination in sensor technology that Sony enjoys. Either way, they'd better hurry before they go extinct.

 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Sony is the only manufacturer growing exponentially. Everyone else is either standing pat or losing significant market share. You can not bunch Sony together with other mirrorless systems because they represent a niche --- the premium/high-end market. Low-end cameras are a dying breed, much like DSLR's.

And no, Canikon will not turn the table. Not with the domination in sensor technology that Sony enjoys. Either way, they'd better hurry before they go extinct.

I don't know where your figures come from. The CIPA figures represent the total deliveries of all Japanese camera brands for the whole years stated. Whatever way you put it, Sony does still only have a 10% market share, and the DSLR market is still three times as large as the mirrorless market. Where I live, in Thailand, Sony isn't even the mirrorless market leader. That position goes to Fuji, which also outsells Canon and Nikon in this country (mirrorless and DSLR).

I don't know about other countries, but here, many shop owners don't want Sony in their shops due to their terms and thei exposure requirements (they basically wants to be exposed as the leading brand of each shop or else not at all). There's a similar problem with Samsung, the result being that they have mostly disappeared from the shops entirely.

Here's a link to CIPA's statistics page, containing sales figures for the last 17 years:

CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Jimminy-Cricket, these lenses sure are expensive for work-a-day focal lengths.

What you get for $3.2K, the A7R-II body is sort of a relative value ... but holy-moly buying premium Sony GM glass to match the resolution demands really jacks up the tariff (IF they actually do make that big a difference in real world shooting (other than on a locked down tripod) ... which remains to be seen).

So, I wonder who is making these? Is it Sony themselves, and will we have to buy three to get one good one? The Sony G lenses I had before were good but not that great ... and all the ZA Zeiss glass produced better results. Are these different than G ... is G Master something new ... a class above the G?

I guess it's cheap when compared to Leica, which I can't bring myself to shell out for anymore either:bugeyes: Those days are behind me.

I do wish (like others here), for some smaller, high quality optics in the manner of the FE 55/1.8. The Batis do look good, but are rare as hen's teeth.

A well made, Sony FE 35/1.8, FE 85/1.8, FE 135/3.5 anyone?

- Marc
 

Zony user

New member
I don't know where your figures come from. The CIPA figures represent the total deliveries of all Japanese camera brands for the whole years stated. Whatever way you put it, Sony does still only have a 10% market share, and the DSLR market is still three times as large as the mirrorless market. Where I live, in Thailand, Sony isn't even the mirrorless market leader. That position goes to Fuji, which also outsells Canon and Nikon in this country (mirrorless and DSLR).

I don't know about other countries, but here, many shop owners don't want Sony in their shops due to their terms and thei exposure requirements (they basically wants to be exposed as the leading brand of each shop or else not at all). There's a similar problem with Samsung, the result being that they have mostly disappeared from the shops entirely.

Here's a link to CIPA's statistics page, containing sales figures for the last 17 years:

CIPA - Camera & Imaging Products Association: Digital Cameras
Sony has shifted all of their products (not just cameras) to a premium/high-end line-up and have been slowly pulling out of the entry-level market. They have reduced their vast product lineup of over 1800 items in 2012 to only 400 items in 2015. As a result of their profit-based business model, they are more profitable than ever.

What you fail to realize is that market share is based on units sold. It is very clear from their recent strategy shift that Sony is not concerned about market share that includes $300-$500 cameras from the lesser companies. The bottom end of the market is getting chewed up by the ever improving smartphone cameras. The market is shrinking at an alarming rate, yet Sony's margins (per unit sold) are much larger than their competitors. Their premium camera division brings in more cash than any other competitor. In addition their image sensor division owns over 40% of the world's market share. Sony is making their shareholders very happy, and trust me, they know what they are doing. Unfortunately the same can not be said about Canikon.
 
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