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Thread: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

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    Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Before moving to the Sony A series I used Fuji X system. One thing that impressed me about them was how they kept improving AF performance via firmware updates.

    The A6300, based on specs I've seen, has the same processor used in the A7RII and A7II.
    The A6300 has more PDAF points than the A7RII with what appears to be better performance. This suggests that there is room for Sony to improve A7RII AF performance to match the A6300.

    One can hope

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    Before moving to the Sony A series I used Fuji X system. One thing that impressed me about them was how they kept improving AF performance via firmware updates.

    The A6300, based on specs I've seen, has the same processor used in the A7RII and A7II.
    The A6300 has more PDAF points than the A7RII with what appears to be better performance. This suggests that there is room for Sony to improve A7RII AF performance to match the A6300.

    One can hope
    How do you reckon with a FW update more PDAF points will appear on the A7r II's sensor?

    (Hint: It is a hardware thingy, this PDAF points. It needs to be there physically.)
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    How do you reckon with a FW update more PDAF points will appear on the A7r II's sensor?

    (Hint: It is a hardware thingy, this PDAF points. It needs to be there physically.)
    You missed the point.

    The A7RII has a lot of PDAF points, the firmware in the A6300 processes information from a larger array so the A7RII should be able to process, using updated firmware, at a speed similar to the A6300 from a smaller array.

    PDAF processing is firmware based. The performance improvement evident on the A6300 should transfer to the A7RII as a firmware update.

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    You missed the point.

    The A7RII has a lot of PDAF points, the firmware in the A6300 processes information from a larger array so the A7RII should be able to process, using updated firmware, at a speed similar to the A6300 from a smaller array.

    PDAF processing is firmware based. The performance improvement evident on the A6300 should transfer to the A7RII as a firmware update.
    I think you're the one missing the point Vivek was making. On the A7RII the 399 AF points and the A6300 the 425 AF points are EMBEDDED ON THE SENSOR. That can't be improved through firmware although performance could possibly be optimized further through firmware. The AF coverage can't be expanded and I suspect that the performance can't be upgraded too far. The improvement that I'd like to see is AF accuracy but that can be said of MOST AF systems no matter the manufacturer.
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    I think you're the one missing the point Vivek was making. On the A7RII the 399 AF points and the A6300 the 425 AF points are EMBEDDED ON THE SENSOR. That can't be improved through firmware although performance could possibly be optimized further through firmware. The AF coverage can't be expanded and I suspect that the performance can't be upgraded too far. The improvement that I'd like to see is AF accuracy but that can be said of MOST AF systems no matter the manufacturer.
    You are both missing my point. I am not talking about the AF points embedded on the sensor.

    I am talking about the firmware that reads from the AF points on the sensor and drives the focus motor in the lens to achieve focus. Track focus and other focus capabilities that are firmware driven.

    To me, at least, is seems obvious that one can not expect a firmware update to change the hardware. That's why I am asking about firmware rather than hardware.

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    You are both missing my point. I am not talking about the AF points embedded on the sensor.

    I am talking about the firmware that reads from the AF points on the sensor and drives the focus motor in the lens to achieve focus. Track focus and other focus capabilities that are firmware driven.

    To me, at least, is seems obvious that one can not expect a firmware update to change the hardware. That's why I am asking about firmware rather than hardware.
    See the second par t of my second sentence... It's possible to optimize behavior through firmware. I don't know that it will give A6300 performance though. The 425 points of the A6300 cover nearly the whole sensor while the 399 points of the A7RII only cover about 60% of the sensor. The A7RII is close to a scaled up A6000 and the A6300 is something beyond that. I'd expect the MkIII versions of the A7 (or the A8/A9) bodies to improve upon the performance of the A6300 personally. That's my theory on escalating the A6xxx to a A6300 (instead of the logical A6100 or A6200) to represent a third generation test bed camera.

    Engineers can be weird that way.
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    One thing I caught in one of the video descriptions, or maybe it was on the Sony site, is that the A6300 AF performance is possible because they are using both PD and CD points as resources for the AF algorithm. That is also something that can be done with the existing AF points on the A7RII sensor.

    I agree that it becomes a marketing and product management decision. That was my beginning point relative to Fuji; They are updating firmware as the engineers enhance capabilities. Even on other models that have the same hardware capabilities.

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmward View Post
    One thing I caught in one of the video descriptions, or maybe it was on the Sony site, is that the A6300 AF performance is possible because they are using both PD and CD points as resources for the AF algorithm. That is also something that can be done with the existing AF points on the A7RII sensor.
    .
    How do you know that this already is not being used in the A7r II and the RX1R II and trickled down to the A 6300?

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    How do you know that this already is not being used in the A7r II and the RX1R II and trickled down to the A 6300?
    It has been since the original A7(117 PDAF + CDAF) and A7R (25 PDAF + CDAF.) The key is optimization and I believe that constantly happens with firmware updates but I don't now if Sony takes it to "Fuji levels."
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    How do you know that this already is not being used in the A7r II and the RX1R II and trickled down to the A 6300?
    I don't for a fact. However, the 4D marketing is based on combining these two capabilities to improve focus performance which suggests that its new with the A6300.

    HERE is the Sony description

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    David, It is already available (at least for me).

    Pro Compact Full Frame 35mm Digital Camera | RX1RM II | Sony US

    Featuring 399 focal plane phase-detection AF points

    With advanced phase-detection and contrast-detection capabilities, the Fast Hybrid AF system in the RX1R II provides unconventionally speedy, accurate wide-area autofocus coverage and tracking performance.
    I am finding this to be true every single day.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    RX1R II, ISO6400, 1/25s

    (ISO6400 +1 stop in the post)
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    David, It is already available (at least for me).
    I am finding this to be true every single day.
    Great to see. That suggests that they can deliver the capabilities with different sensors and AF point configurations.

    Should mean that AF performance could be improved in the A7RII if Sony product management sees fit to do it.
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    It turns out, when looking at the Sony site, that the A7RII, RX1R II, a7II and A6300 all have "hybrid" AF.

    That suggests that the 0.05 sec focus time is firmware algorithm driven and should be an improvement that could be applied to all the cameras via firmware update.

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Well Sony has made AF speed improvements on some previous models before but they were barely perceptible in at least my hands.

    I know nothing about camera internal functions so I will not even attempt to say if they can or can't do what the 6300 has in AF to other cameras in their line. One thing I will point out is the 6300 has a 24mp apc sensor and the others mentioned above are all full frame so that might be a deal breaker I don't know. It won't be the first time a cheaper camera in their line had more advance features than their benchmark line. I remember the NEX 6 having more features than the nex7 and the 6000 out did both of those but while the NEX 7 still retailed for more...

    If I get advanced features in a firmware I will be glad but I knew what I had when I bought my a7rII and I was pleased then and now with what it does in my hands regardless of what other newer models can do now.... Products progress in development and the day one brings a product home the technology is already leaving it behind. Just the nature of the beast.
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    Jim,
    I agree with the concept that we buy a camera based on its feature set without any expectation that its features will be improved as other cameras from the manufacturer are announced with improved features.

    The only reason for speculating about the AF performance is because I experienced, with Fuji, how improved performance based in firmware could be retrofitted to existing cameras via firmware updates.

    The A7RII, which I love, has acceptable AF performance with fast moving subjects. For me that's racing cars. Misses are mostly my technique. Given the demo video for the A6300 with the rally car, I'd appreciate that kind of performance in the A7RII.

    On a completely different topic, one thing that kind of irks me is how all the cameras today are incorporating video capabilities. I shot "video" with an Arri 16mm film camera for several PBS shows in the '70s. That said, I would love an option to buy a camera absent the video capabilities since I have no interest in shooting video and would prefer to spend my money on other capabilities.
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    I expect the answer is "No": Only way you are likely to realize significant performance gains via firmware update is if the current firmware is pretty un-optimal to begin with. Besides the number of PDAF points on the sensor, there's likely a matter of how quickly those points can respond to change.

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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    David we are showing our age..... I used to cuss like crazy when my fingers would accidentally hit the video button on the a77 or Nex7 before they found a way to resolve my issue. I would say if I wanted a friggin video camera I would of bought one!!!!!!!!!!! I would be very happy if my camera's never had a way to shoot video and just shot stills. But I am old
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    Re: Will Sony update A7RII with A6300 AF capabilities?

    At this point I doubt very highly we will ever see another camera without video incorporated. Yea me too don't want it at all but I think we are stuck with it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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