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Thread: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

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    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Reading the posts at FM or DPR, you could easily get the impression that the Sony A7-family of cameras is completely inadequate on nearly every front.

    Any new product announcements, or lack of announcements, causes another wave of hand-wringing about the same old stuff:

    - Batteries too small
    - Not enough lens choice
    - Lenses too big
    - Not enough cheap lenses
    - Terrible quality control - nearly every lens is (apparently) de-centered and/or defective
    - No dedicated joystick to move focus points
    - They introduce new features and models too quickly
    - The only reason anyone would buy the Sonys is for its size
    - You can’t use it to shoot sports
    - It’s only got one memory card slot
    - You can’t shoot 12 hours of video continuously
    - and so on

    Well, I’m sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

    According to a little list I maintain, I’ve owned and used more than 60 different cameras over the years. The Sony A7Rii is -easily- the most powerful, sophisticated, flexible and delightful-to-use camera I’ve ever owned. The image quality is unmatched by anything even remotely in its price/convenience range. The native lenses are, as a group, fantastic. The fact that I can also use nearly -any- lens ever made is an incredible bonus.

    Is it perfect? No. Are some of the above complaints valid? Maybe. Do I wish it was cheaper, had more inexpensive native lenses, and never dropped in resale value? Sure, but so what?

    While those pessimists are complaining about their half-empty glasses, I’m out having fun and making images.

    Thanks for listening!


    The Dynamic Duo

    Shot with a6000 and Zeiss 16-70mm lens @30mm
    Last edited by MikeEvangelist; 2nd March 2016 at 12:32.
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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    I agree. The A7R-II is the most capable camera I have (ever?) used. Not perfect, flawed in many ways (especially the overly complex menus) but I love it.
    Brad Husick
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    Senior Member pegelli's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    While those pessimists are complaining about their half-empty glasses, I’m out having fun and making images.
    Fully agree with you Mike, and your sentence above reminded me of something I read recently. :
    "The question is not if your glass is half full or half empty, the real question is how far away is this bottle of gorgeous wine you're enjoying"
    My Pics
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    If five years ago you told me there was a compact FF camera that could shoot almost any lens made for the format (including competitor lenses with fast AF), and would have industry leading image quality I wouldn't have believed it, let alone it was from Sony.

    We are spoiled and unfortunately there are a class of people that must continuously look at the negative - my guess is that they do this in all aspects of life. Not that we all need to be cheerleaders but how about some recognition that we are in a golden age?
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Honestly I could give a flying pig what anyone says anymore. I shoot it I love it and I'm getting what I want out of it. No more chasing rainbows . I'm happy
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Preach it brother!!!!
    the HepKitty
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    I agree with Guy. Really maximizes my lenses. Still amazed each time I shoot with the Sigma 50 ART or the Zeiss 135 APO. Most of my Canon glass gives incredible results as well. Looking forward to the Sigma MC-11 adding AF functionality to the 50 ART. What a great combo this should be.
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Mike I fully agree....... That is why I don't even go on DPR anymore since their so called brainiac's and the RAW compression fiasco they started and kicked to death. I rarely even go on FM either but at least most times it is far more sensible than DPR. To me DPR and it's trolls are a bad joke filled with people who always see a glass half empty.

    I, like Guy, pay no attention to these self proclaimed wizards. I know what I like and what works for me.... and I have found it!

    Just stay away from those sites till this wave of irrational emotion dissipates: it will be far better for you than trying to wake them from their delusions. If no one argues with them they just go away......
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Really only thing I think is valid is our ongoing discussion of lenses and things that we need to produce better images . Those conversations I pay attention too and participate in. I'm all about finding the positives to make us better. But I ignore the ongoing sky is falling stuff. Usually from non soy shooters which makes me laugh.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    My biggest problem with the A7RII is that I don't own one. Looks like I'll have to wait until version III... The one with the built in legacy lens AF adapter. We can dream right?
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    Reading the posts at FM or DPR, you could easily get the impression that the Sony A7-family of cameras is completely inadequate on nearly every front.
    Those amateur haters at dpr will hate any camera for you. Only here at getdpi, you'll find specialised haters who hate the A7 exclusively

    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 2nd March 2016 at 21:03.
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Like a lot of you I've shot a lot of different digital cameras over the years. And with film even more.

    I migrated from DSLR to mirrorless knowing that I was leaving behind one capability that I really find useful when shooting events: TTL metered flash.

    I went back to shooting with manual flash, then migrated to the Sony A7R for other reasons. With Nissin and now Godox addressing TTL metered flash I've been able to use the A7RII the way I like. There are some things I'd like them to improve, but overall this is a great camera system.

    What other people say about equipment is useful to me if its useful information while I'm researching. What I hear too much, as Michael has pointed out, is a lot of people whining. That I have no time for and turn off.
    David

    dmwfotos | davidmward.photography
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Yawn!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    I could see something like that as a lightweight counterpart to my Phase One kit. It's big and heavy.

    But I would be looking at the new Pentax K-1 not a Sony.

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    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Yawn!
    Hope we didn't wake you.
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    Reading the posts at FM or DPR, you could easily get the impression that the Sony A7-family of cameras is completely inadequate on nearly every front.

    Any new product announcements, or lack of announcements, causes another wave of hand-wringing about the same old stuff:

    - Batteries too small
    - Not enough lens choice
    - Lenses too big
    - Not enough cheap lenses
    - Terrible quality control - nearly every lens is (apparently) de-centered and/or defective
    - No dedicated joystick to move focus points
    - They introduce new features and models too quickly
    - The only reason anyone would buy the Sonys is for its size
    - You canít use it to shoot sports
    - Itís only got one memory card slot
    - You canít shoot 12 hours of video continuously
    - and so on

    Well, Iím sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

    According to a little list I maintain, Iíve owned and used more than 60 different cameras over the years. The Sony A7Rii is -easily- the most powerful, sophisticated, flexible and delightful-to-use camera Iíve ever owned. The image quality is unmatched by anything even remotely in its price/convenience range. The native lenses are, as a group, fantastic. The fact that I can also use nearly -any- lens ever made is an incredible bonus.

    Is it perfect? No. Are some of the above complaints valid? Maybe. Do I wish it was cheaper, had more inexpensive native lenses, and never dropped in resale value? Sure, but so what?

    While those pessimists are complaining about their half-empty glasses, Iím out having fun and making images.

    Thanks for listening!

    Mike:
    You know how I know Sony has arrived? I haven't been tempted by the A7SII. The A7S is far from perfect but I definitely don't feel like I can't make any kind of photo that I want. That means I can take some indoor people shots or some walk-around shots or a landscape. That was something I couldn't say with any of my older Sony cameras. The A850, NEX5N and even the A7R couldn't get the indoor shots. So even though I could get some advantages from the A7 II, A7R II or the A7S II I really think I should skip another generation or two before trading up. And that's a beautiful thing. Now I can waste money on expensive lenses!
    Regards,
    John
    Sony fanboy, shamelessly shilling for "the man" since 2010.

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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    Hope we didn't wake you.
    Thanks Mike. No, my A7r2 is a wonderful tool and a joy to use!
    As are my OM-D cameras. Wouldn't want to give up any.

    BTW, tomorrow my Oly 300/4 PRO lens is scheduled to arrive.
    That lens on the E-M1/5/5.2 should keep me entertained for awhile.
    I already refreshed my grasp of their menu systems.

    After that my A7r/2 cameras feel like brand new gizmos.
    And I will need to re-memorize their menu systems by going through them once.
    The more I switch daily use of systems the easier it seems to remember their UIs and rely on muscle memory!
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    Reading the posts at FM or DPR, you could easily get the impression that the Sony A7-family of cameras is completely inadequate on nearly every front.

    Any new product announcements, or lack of announcements, causes another wave of hand-wringing about the same old stuff:

    - Batteries too small
    - Not enough lens choice
    - Lenses too big
    - Not enough cheap lenses
    - Terrible quality control - nearly every lens is (apparently) de-centered and/or defective
    - No dedicated joystick to move focus points
    - They introduce new features and models too quickly
    - The only reason anyone would buy the Sonys is for its size
    - You canít use it to shoot sports
    - Itís only got one memory card slot
    - You canít shoot 12 hours of video continuously
    - and so on

    Well, Iím sorry, but I respectfully disagree.

    According to a little list I maintain, Iíve owned and used more than 60 different cameras over the years. The Sony A7Rii is -easily- the most powerful, sophisticated, flexible and delightful-to-use camera Iíve ever owned. The image quality is unmatched by anything even remotely in its price/convenience range. The native lenses are, as a group, fantastic. The fact that I can also use nearly -any- lens ever made is an incredible bonus.

    Is it perfect? No. Are some of the above complaints valid? Maybe. Do I wish it was cheaper, had more inexpensive native lenses, and never dropped in resale value? Sure, but so what?

    While those pessimists are complaining about their half-empty glasses, Iím out having fun and making images.

    Thanks for listening!
    What is not to get?

    People are free to critique their tools just as vigorously as they (should) critique their work.

    Personally, I'd like a nice full glass not one half full or half empty ... it's called "pushing for progress".

    Now, what that "full glass" may be is the question. For some the A7R-II may be it.

    Sony has pretty much revolutionized the whole camera scene which is fantastic for a lot of folks ... and I'm one of them. I've embraced my A7R-II for all it's wonders.

    However, just for example ... IT NEEDS A MAJOR OVERHAUL OF THE MENU SYSTEM ... and soft soaping that will never get Sony to fix it.

    Any one of us here on this site (that actually use this camera) could design a better menu organization in 1/2 hour.

    Personally, I'd prefer seeing ideas on that, rather than a group hug around the half full glass.



    - Marc
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    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    What I want to know is how getting it or not getting it is going to improve my photos.

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    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    What I want to know is how getting it or not getting it is going to improve my photos.


    Who knows, we can't speak for you or your photos, I enjoyed Mike's rant. Sometimes it's good to speak out about things amongst friends.
    the HepKitty
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    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I could see something like that as a lightweight counterpart to my Phase One kit. It's big and heavy.

    But I would be looking at the new Pentax K-1 not a Sony.
    The new Pentax looks small and heavy compared to other DSLRs.

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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Unless its not a fact, any comment on a camera should be proceeded by IMO or "for my use".

    Example: people complain about Sony A7 battery life.
    "For my use" the A7 never ran out of juice because coming from being film user I have always been a low frame rate user.
    For someone else it may be a problem.

    Example 2: define a cheap lens. Can't be done.

    With anything on the internets - filter ON.

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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    I love my A7RII but there are a LOT of things that could be improved. Sony product planners / product managers could just look at the competition and copy best practices as a start. I suggest they start with a breakdown of the Ricoh GR UX/UI and pick up some ideas there - just got that camera recently and wow, what a true photographers p&s camera. And look at the touchscreen interface on the GH4. Lots to learn from all the camera companies.

    Sadly, there will never be a perfect camera, for me or anyone else.

    DPR is painful, traumatizing really. I rarely go to their forums anymore. It is like reading the comments at your local newspaper's website. Cesspool of insanity there.

    FM is much, much better. Discourse is generally pretty informed and balanced there.

    And this place is great!
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    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by darrellc View Post
    DPR is painful, traumatizing really. I rarely go to their forums anymore. It is like reading the comments at your local newspaper's website. Cesspool of insanity there.

    FM is much, much better. Discourse is generally pretty informed and balanced there.

    And this place is great!
    Exactly my feelings! Especially about GetDPI - civil, informative, fun and extremely useful. Guy, Jack and Bob are to be congratulated for making it so.
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    We can light a Google camp fire, link virtual hands and sing "Kumbaya, Oh Sony, Kumbaya" into our computer screens ...


    Or discuss how to get the most out of the A7 cameras while avoiding the pitfalls, of which there quite a few if you aren't careful.

    While the Sony's provide the option to tailor our camera to our specific needs, it also provides a lot of "diversity of use" in one small package. Isn't that a main reason to use them in the first place?

    In fact, (not IMO, or whatever caveat should precede an observation), with that versatility comes a heaping helping of complexity.

    Complexity can be a two edged sword ... for example:

    I customized my A7R-II settings for a number of uses that I encounter in day-to-day shooting ... some for myself, some for pay.


    So, the other day I was helping a photographer friend shoot school pics because her regular partner became suddenly ill. (not my bag, but gotta help a friend in need).

    A7R-II up high on a Tripod, ZA24-70/2.8 lens using the LA EA-3 adapter (LA EA-4 doesn't allow use of the L bracket); Profoto B1 AIR lighting with 7' Parabolics, camera set to "Setting Effect Off" for use with strobes.

    Kids are marched in and placed on bleachers, my friend shoots 3 shots, I shoot 3 back-up tripod shots from a higher vantage point on a step-ladder. The turn-over of kids is well organized and fast.

    Boom, Boom, Boom ... three groups done with no problem.

    Third Graders get set up, press the shutter ... nothing. No flash either. Immediate flop sweat. I'll spare you the next few steps and accompanying thoughts as I try to figure it out from a dozen or more things it could be ... while kids start squirming and busting ranks like kittens escaping a box.

    Cut to the chase. I have a custom setting to activate the wonderful "Silent Shooting" mode for use at weddings, shooting on motion picture sets, and any discreet situation.

    I had inadvertently activated it.

    So what? How is that an issue?

    When you have a transmitter in the hot shoe and Silent Shooting is activated ... the hot shoe doesn't work! Who would have thought it? Makes sense I guess since using flash isn't exactly "discreet"

    Also, with "Setting Effect Off" and stopped down, you see the image to be shot but all you get is a black frame. No warning screen like wth some other blocked invalid functions. It seemed like the camera suddenly had a brain aneurysm.

    I did figure it out pretty quickly, but not quickly enough as I had to remove the camera from the tripod, and I missed the 3rd grade back-up shots.

    Another "Pro" friend had the same thing happen in the middle of a shoot but it wasn't silent shooting in his case because it is turned off in the main menu. He still hasn't figured out why. He reset the camera to factory defaults to get the job done.

    BTW, I also discovered that with this ZA lens on the LAEA-3 adapter, the Shoot Mode is disabled. Focus Mode is set on the lens, and when it is set to MF on the lens, the rear AF button doesn't work!!! BTW, Flexible Spot:M focus area is restricted to a smaller area, and Expanded Flexible Spot focus area is invalid with this lens.

    Etc., Etc., Etc., the more versatility the more complexity ... which is darned hard to keep track of in the heat of shooting. Hopefully I can keep this pup for more than a Fly's life and learn all of the hidden surprises it has in store for me, until I master it.

    - Marc
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by darrellc View Post
    I love my A7RII but there are a LOT of things that could be improved. Sony product planners / product managers could just look at the competition and copy best practices as a start. I suggest they start with a breakdown of the Ricoh GR UX/UI and pick up some ideas there - just got that camera recently and wow, what a true photographers p&s camera. And look at the touchscreen interface on the GH4. Lots to learn from all the camera companies.

    Sadly, there will never be a perfect camera, for me or anyone else.

    DPR is painful, traumatizing really. I rarely go to their forums anymore. It is like reading the comments at your local newspaper's website. Cesspool of insanity there.

    FM is much, much better. Discourse is generally pretty informed and balanced there.

    And this place is great!
    Exactly. Why is the OP so sensitive? Does he think Sony can't improve with some healthy critique?

    I shoot my A7 constantly, and have great affection for it. The Sony corporation, on the other hand, could use a few slaps


    100/3.5 by unoh7, on Flickr

    How many copies of the 35/1.4 have you tried now, Guy? Now on the other hand your 1635 was great. But paying a grand or more, I would prefer the lens to be centered and well assembled, does anyone disagree? Sony/Zeiss QC with lenses is not at the highest standard which Canon and Nikon reach with many of their lenses, including some really cheap ones. Do I need to link to the multi copy lens rental tests? Should everyone just shut up about it?

    I treat Leica the same way, as do most of their users. Did you see the furor when Leica hinted they might no longer support the sensor issues on the M9/MM? We raised hell and now that sensor is being replaced with a better one years out of warranty for any owner. Sony owners should demand the same level of fidelity, I think, and maybe Sony would give some love to the firmware of older A7 cameras, and improve the next generation with better batteries and interface.

    I see no reason why I need to deny the shortcomings of a camera to enjoy it. My M9 has a ridiculous shutter. I still love it

    What I just don't get is the fierce sugar coating of the emperor's attire...or the lack of...in certain respects LOL
    Last edited by uhoh7; 3rd March 2016 at 17:57.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    I have been through 4 copies of the 35 1.4. Agree not acceptable at all. But not sure I can say Sony is alone here , been down this road with all the OEM's it's really a industry problem but Sony should actually recall the whole lot of them. Even a copy that is acceptable it's still flawed. Now on the other hand I have done good with everything else except the 24-70 as well was another negative experience. Honestly I expect some of this and reason I'll talk about it but I do not whine over it. The other part of the equation is I'll accept some fault because I pretty much won't buy Nikon or Canon again. Leica for me is over as well. Just not going to pay premium costs on product. But that's me, I just don't have the money to throw around like that. It buys me nothing professionally.

    Btw I don't have blinders on either. I know exactly what I have in my bag, I just choose to work through what I need to do in a positive way and find my workarounds and options without getting into these holy wars. I know where some Sony users are coming from here. It's pretty disgusting how some forums act towards Sony and there products.
    Last edited by Guy Mancuso; 3rd March 2016 at 18:52.
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  28. #28
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Yeah Guy, wholesale whining about Sony from competitive owners, and genuinely wanting improvement in our tools of choice, are two completely different matters.

    I've been a Sony shooter longer than most ... the minute they offered a FF DSLR, I switched over to A900s for a majority of my paid wedding and location portrait work at the time. Trust me, I was an exception in that Canikon dominated field.

    I'm still there with the A7R-II. To be perfectly honest, I cannot think of a better value/performance equation despite some of the improvements many of us would like to see. To use the OPs analogy, I think with the A7R-II the glass is 2/3 full

    Now, I'm not quite as brand centric as you may be as I still shoot with a Leica MM and S(006) ... but the truth be told, in my current circumstances I wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't spend what I paid for those tools where I to do it today. Life has a way of rearranging priorities, and clearing one's vision forward. In fact, even the price of the new GM lenses gives me pause.

    - Marc
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  29. #29
    Super Duper
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    I think the problem is that the percentage of "dislikers" and "criticizers" who do post on the net is higher than the percentage of people who use and enjoy a product.
    Therefore , when reading the internet, on can get the impression that there are many people out there who do not like a product.
    But I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the real situation.

    We must not believe that the internet mirrors a representative opinion.

    If it trusts you: Leica is bashed even more often.
    I would say Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Pentax,...all offer good products. But there will allways be people who think tradional DSLRs are outdated, who believe Sony is a computer not a camera and Leica is for snobs.


    Who cares. What counts if what works well for you.
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  30. #30
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I think the problem is that the percentage of "dislikers" and "criticizers" who do post on the net is higher than the percentage of people who use and enjoy a product.
    Therefore , when reading the internet, on can get the impression that there are many people out there who do not like a product.
    But I am pretty sure that it has nothing to do with the real situation.

    We must not believe that the internet mirrors a representative opinion.

    If it trusts you: Leica is bashed even more often.
    I would say Canon, Nikon, Sony, Leica, Pentax,...all offer good products. But there will allways be people who think tradional DSLRs are outdated, who believe Sony is a computer not a camera and Leica is for snobs.


    Who cares. What counts if what works well for you.
    i would tend to agree with EVERYTHING you said with the caveat that Leica and for different reason Sony tends to elicit another level of hate from photographers that are financially and emotionally invested in other systems. This is coming from a former Leica, Panasonic, and Canon shooter that is now a Sony shooter. I will say that Leica and Sont shooters tend to be a bit more passionate in the idiosyncrasies of those particular systems and choose them specifically because they are different than the CaNikon DSLR's. This encourages negative responses as Leica and Sony shooter are akin to "cult members" for daring to be different by other shooters. I used to think it was about the financial proposition that inspired negativity with Leica but MF shooters don't collect the same amount of disdain and they pay much more for their cameras.

    It can't JUST be a reliability thing because Nikon has had as horrible of a track record for quality control as Sony (decentered lenses/light leaks) or Leica (exfoliated sensors/ quality control issues with 50 APO/metering issues with SL) has. Still you see general praise and acceptance by satisfied owners of any brand. You also see misleading information by owners and company spokespeople on the record that underplay shortcomings due to brand loyalty - but that's business. It's often those that has never owned, touched, used extensively, or worked with different brands that are the most critical... and that's cool too until misinformation based on uninformed second hand knowledge becomes "fact."
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com
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  31. #31
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    What bothers me more than anything and this is recent years is the you tube wanna be gurus that really give out bad info but praise everything in there hands. I can't trust reviews anymore and it's put me in a bad spot because I do reviews but refuse to be called one of them now as its really bothers me today what I see and read. And actually I been mislead on a adapter and had to have a new one FedX overnight to shoot a job. That was way to close for comfort by 3 hours. That's not how I depend on my system. So I'm very leary now on these so called gurus.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  32. #32
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What bothers me more than anything and this is recent years is the you tube wanna be gurus that really give out bad info but praise everything in there hands. I can't trust reviews anymore and it's put me in a bad spot because I do reviews but refuse to be called one of them now as its really bothers me today what I see and read. And actually I been mislead on a adapter and had to have a new one FedX overnight to shoot a job. That was way to close for comfort by 3 hours. That's not how I depend on my system. So I'm very leary now on these so called gurus.
    Don't put you in the same boat like those gurus, Guy!

    We all know, if you're new to something, it's good to have someone that gives you advices. But to get a good answer you have to communicate bidirectional and with several different sources.

    the web content is still something new for many and humans have to learn how to use it. I'm not talking about old people or people that have a smartphone since a few months only. it's about people that comes to me with: "hey I had to change the chain on my bike and you know what? There are how-to-videos in the net!!!". youtube, dpreview and many other have very valuable content, but you have to decide by yourself what is good and what is not. and you have to search a lot by your own. with the traditional medias (print, tv, radio) the editorial staff filtered content for you.

    If I'm reading a review from you, Guy, I now it's a valuable and objective one. It wouldn't matter if I read it here, on youtube or in the forum of dpreview. On the other hand, I do not disturb me on the 100st thread about battery life or the 1000st battle of brands. It's easy to skip them. And as I inform me about gear over several channels, I can recognize a serious one.
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  33. #33
    Senior Member MikeEvangelist's Avatar
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    Glad I hit some nerves with my little post. It probably came off more serious than I intended; but that's the way the internet works sometimes. As always, thoughtful discussions here in our little haven of sanity.

    My main point was that we live in a world of magical devices. Digital cameras are a prime example, with the Sony currently at the top, imho. Its (many) foibles don't diminish that, in my view. But some people seem to only see the deficiencies.

    PS
    And the sad state of things at some of the photo forums out there. I really do marvel at it.
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  34. #34
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    The internet does seem to have brought out the negative view with more intensity.
    As a young photographer, when getting together with others, we'd talk about our favorite this or that and why. It always came down to how the lens, camera, film or whatever helped us make better images.

    The same was true for conversations about just about anything.

    Now with the internet, and subject specific fora, it seems there is a growing cadre of participants whose only contribution is complaining about deficiencies. As far as I can tell, everything can be improved. I've never met an engineer who has said "that's it, I'll never be able to make it better."

    They know, product managers know, and we know, there is always room for improvement.

    What that means, to me, is that as good as the camera and lenses I have from Sony are today, helping me make the images I want, I can look forward to more capabilities in the future. Capabilities that will help me make better images, presuming I am willing to keep challenging myself as well as a photographer.

    As for reviews; what I've noticed is that the internet has deluded the quality by imposing quantity. Anyone with a computer, a web browser and the time can say whatever they want, without any fact checking, or other editorial proofing. I find it sometimes entertaining to look at some of the Youtube videos or read some of the reviews just for the laughs.

    For real, and useful information, I have a few select sites, including GetDPI. The rest is worthless, but sometimes entertaining.

    Mike, even though you started this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I think its started a useful conversation.

    And, to date, no trolls.
    David

    dmwfotos | davidmward.photography
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  35. #35
    Super Duper
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    Re: Sorry, but I just donít get it - a bit of a rant

    My feeling is that there is a lot of - sorry- rubbish pseudo information on the internet. And its not allways easy to sort out which information is good and which information is bad.
    Then there are those people who have the hobby to find the faults of products they dont own, many of them seem to know the products better than people who own and use the products.
    Its harder and harder to find places in the internet where the productive and usefull threads keep coming. For me getdpi or reidreviews are such places.
    But overall I feel I enjoy chatting in photography forums less and less. The better the products get the more bashing is going on.
    I dont care if people write bul...t , but isnt it sad if other people who seek for good information read such faulty negative information and get a wrong picture?
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