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Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

fotografz

Well-known member
Really my only complaint (and it's a big one for long term investment) with PCB equipment is the Balcar mount. Obviously and it's well documented that Profoto is far and away better than anything else when it comes to mount security and available modifier options. The Bowens mount isn't too far behind though in security and modifier options for those of us on a tighter budget.

I've been seriously considering selling my PCB stuff, changing the mount on my Mola Demi to Bowens or Profoto (depending on which direction I go), and keep going from there. I know Profoto is available to rent (so that's always a great thing) but I also like to experiment and practice techniques around the house personally. So I'd like to buy into a system based on one of these mounts be it a B1/D1, a Phottix Indra, Godox or one of the many variants of it. Elinchrom is supporting Sony too but I think they may actually make a less secure mount than PCB.

The best thing about the Godox is that they also do inexpensive speedlights that play with the rest of the system.

On a side note, Guy can we get this to be a "sticky?"
The other nice thing about the Profoto mount is the ability to "modify the modifiers" buy sliding it along the body of the strobe and changing the intensity/focus in each mod (which is why there are measured markings along the strobe heads). But, I agree that they are still pretty pricy, and so many other choices have come so very far in improvements.

I stuck with Profoto because of the mount and their AIR system which syncs with my Leica S up to 1/1000, plus AIR is built into our Hensel Porty1200L … and I like the self-contained B1s a lot.

The most problems I've ever had with strobe mounts has been with Elinchrom (both regular and the very weak plastic Quadra mount). The engineering concept of their regular mount seems like it should work but isn't robust enough by design IMO … the construction, materials and fit also leave a lot to be desired. Even the Elinchrom made Profoto speed-ring to use the fabulous Rotalux modifiers on Profoto heads (I have 3 of them), is junk compared to Profoto's OEM mount. The mount doesn't fit well, and 2 out of the 3 Elinchrom Profoto lever-clamp portions have bent and fallen apart.:angry:

Elinchrom also persists on making their umbrella shaft mount smaller than everyone else, making many of the great new umbrella mods unusable.

Speaking of umbrellas, the under $100 Wescott 7' Parabolic umbrellas with their $30 fitted diffuser sock is an incredibly good location solution (I recently used these on D1s to help a friend in need shoot bleachers full of school kids). Best value out there IMO.

Side note: One other consideration depending on what you shoot is Hensel. The Hensel mount is industrial strength. When I downsized my studio for semi-retirement, I loaned all of my Hensel stuff to a good friend and he has learned how to use the Free Mask system for studio work … unbelievable idea that allows instant outlining … you have to see it to believe it. Hensel also has some of the more innovative modifiers … their beauty dish is widely thought of as one of the best.

I'm rambling … so time to shut up:ROTFL:

- Marc
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The other nice thing about the Profoto mount is the ability to "modify the modifiers" buy sliding it along the body of the strobe and changing the intensity/focus in each mod (which is why there are measured markings along the strobe heads). But, I agree that they are still pretty pricy, and so many other choices have come so very far in improvements.

I stuck with Profoto because of the mount and their AIR system which syncs with my Leica S up to 1/1000, plus AIR is built into our Hensel Porty1200L … and I like the self-contained B1s a lot.

The most problems I've ever had with strobe mounts has been with Elinchrom (both regular and the very weak plastic Quadra mount). The engineering concept of their regular mount seems like it should work but isn't robust enough by design IMO … the construction, materials and fit also leave a lot to be desired. Even the Elinchrom made Profoto speed-ring to use the fabulous Rotalux modifiers on Profoto heads (I have 3 of them), is junk compared to Profoto's OEM mount. The mount doesn't fit well, and 2 out of the 3 Elinchrom Profoto lever-clamp portions have bent and fallen apart.:angry:

Elinchrom also persists on making their umbrella shaft mount smaller than everyone else, making many of the great new umbrella mods unusable.

Speaking of umbrellas, the under $100 Wescott 7' Parabolic umbrellas with their $30 fitted diffuser sock is an incredibly good location solution (I recently used these on D1s to help a friend in need shoot bleachers full of school kids). Best value out there IMO.

Side note: One other consideration depending on what you shoot is Hensel. The Hensel mount is industrial strength. When I downsized my studio for semi-retirement, I loaned all of my Hensel stuff to a good friend and he has learned how to use the Free Mask system for studio work … unbelievable idea that allows instant outlining … you have to see it to believe it. Hensel also has some of the more innovative modifiers … their beauty dish is widely thought of as one of the best.

I'm rambling … so time to shut up:ROTFL:

- Marc
I agree 100% on the Westcott Umbrellas. I have two silver ones and plan on picking up two white shoot-throughs next time I see them on sale. I hear the Zeppelin's a re great as well but a good bit pricier than the Elinchrom Rotalux boxes.

I also agree on the benefits of the Profoto "zoom" ability but I don't know that it would be a responsible purchase as a hobbyist... but that's never stopped me before. Hensel has always been of interest to me as well because it works with Profoto Air. I hear that Chimera makes high quality softboxes (and other modifiers) but the selection isn't as wide as Profoto or Bowens S mount. I don't fully understand how Freemask works or the purpose of it but those that use it hold it in the highest regard.

Your remarks about Elinchrom echo what most say - great product options in idea with questionable build quality in execution.
 

dmward

Member
The Godox AD600 has an interesting capability that is also available with Hensel.
It permits setting the light to trigger on one of up to 4 sequential shutter clicks.

HERE at the 4:11 point is the menu setting.

HERE is a page with videos that shows how Hensel has implemented the capability. Also, the software used to simplify creating the mask.

Its interesting that Hensel offers the Mask trigger capability as a separate hardware option for other lights.

It looks like the feature could be added to all the lights in the Godox X system. I plan to push for that, including adding it to the X system receiver which would make it available to any light that can be fired with the X receiver.

Another use that's been suggested is using the capability to create a sequence of lights that could be used to illuminate the frames in a burst used to capture action sequences. Especially when the setup means that a light can't recycle fast enough to cover the frames in the burst.
 

rweissman

Member
Beyond Phottix and Nissin, there may be some other good news on the Sony Alpha TTL strobe front. I was about to buy some Phottix gear when I was advised by a friend, "don't start investing in another flash system. You're a Profoto user. Profoto will have an Air commander available for Sony within the year." Of this, he was positive and he is in a position within the industry to know. He was not being anti-Phottix nor Pro-Profoto--just a very knowledgeable insider who knows what I regularly shoot. (Quantum and Profoto.)

And right before Quantum Instruments was acquired, I was offered a beta product (from a Q-Flash product manager) that would allow Sony Alpha to work with the Q-Flash system. I responded "Yes" but never heard back. Perhaps the M&A shelved the project, but it is good to know that Quantum was at least working on it. Perhaps some positive feedback to Quantum would be helpful?

On Profoto, keep your fingers crossed!
 

dmward

Member
My view on modifier mounts;
The Balcar mount that Buff uses is probably the least reliable for larger modifiers. Its does offer an ability to get the flash tube into the modifier which I think is important.
The profoto mount makes sense for their light design. However many of their lights have the tube buried with just a flat diffusion glass.
The Elinchrom mount is nice with its large opening and ability to get the tube into the modifier. I don't find it too flimsy for larger modifiers.
The Bowens S mount is secure but all of the adapters I've seen have a relatively deep throat which makes it difficult to get the flash tube into the modifier.

I'm not sure there is a perfect mount that is also universally adaptable to a wide range of modifiers and lights.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Beyond Phottix and Nissin, there may be some other good news on the Sony Alpha TTL strobe front. I was about to buy some Phottix gear when I was advised by a friend, "don't start investing in another flash system. You're a Profoto user. Profoto will have an Air commander available for Sony within the year." Of this, he was positive and he is in a position within the industry to know. He was not being anti-Phottix nor Pro-Profoto--just a very knowledgeable insider who knows what I regularly shoot. (Quantum and Profoto.)

And right before Quantum Instruments was acquired, I was offered a beta product (from a Q-Flash product manager) that would allow Sony Alpha to work with the Q-Flash system. I responded "Yes" but never heard back. Perhaps the M&A shelved the project, but it is good to know that Quantum was at least working on it. Perhaps some positive feedback to Quantum would be helpful?

On Profoto, keep your fingers crossed!
Well it's pretty simple given Sonys rise these days in the market a lot of companies are going to have to support Sony products to keep sales going. A lot of people are switching over. This is great news for us end users. Seems right now everyone has something in the works to support Sony. I like these choices I did not have when I bought in 2 years ago. It's all good
 

JMaher

New member
Lots of good information in this thread.

I am using the Nissin and have nothing bad to say about them and they have yet to shut down on me when using the Godox power packs. However I realize that is a possibility at some point.

I am very interested in the upcoming Godox solutions as they are my primary lights and I am supposed to beta test yet another (still undisclosed) portable solution in the next month or two. Lots on Sony options becoming available.

Jim
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Lots of good information in this thread.

I am using the Nissin and have nothing bad to say about them and they have yet to shut down on me when using the Godox power packs. However I realize that is a possibility at some point.

I am very interested in the upcoming Godox solutions as they are my primary lights and I am supposed to beta test yet another (still undisclosed) portable solution in the next month or two. Lots on Sony options becoming available.

Jim
That makes me curious if Nissin will come out with a monolight...
 

dmward

Member
That makes me curious if Nissin will come out with a monolight...
Historically, they seem to be content to concentrate on speedlites. The receiver that is announced for the Air System will, at least, make it possible to fire monolights from the controller.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Historically, they seem to be content to concentrate on speedlites. The receiver that is announced for the Air System will, at least, make it possible to fire monolights from the controller.
Yeah I know they only do speed lights for now but there's definitely a market for it and they do have the Air 1 Controller.
 

dmward

Member
Yeah I know they only do speed lights for now but there's definitely a market for it and they do have the Air 1 Controller.
Not only the Air 1 Controller but the protocol stack for ETTL with Sony, Nikon and Canon along with some others.

It would be interesting if they were to approach some of the other OEM manufacturers that are looking for the technology they have to leverage battery powered strobe technology an other manufacturer is in hand.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Not only the Air 1 Controller but the protocol stack for ETTL with Sony, Nikon and Canon along with some others.

It would be interesting if they were to approach some of the other OEM manufacturers that are looking for the technology they have to leverage battery powered strobe technology an other manufacturer is in hand.
Min halfway convinced that the Elinchrom Skyport Plus is a rebadged Phottix Odin II. They look very similar, both have ODS, both support 5 groups of lights, Odin has TTL protocols, Elinchrom has the Skyport protocols, and both recently had Sekonic native light meters released for the platform.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I agree with Guy, it is good to see that 3rd party equipment manufacturers are finally taking Sony seriously.:thumbup:

Even a hint that Profoto will support Sony TTL is fantastic news! The TTL AIR transmitters not only allow full control of individual off-camera lights, they have a read-out that shows the settings as you adjust them. HSS and the choice of rear shutter sync helps … and I hope they preserve that for Sony AIR version.

RE Mounts etc.: The newer Profoto mono-lights (D1, B1) do have the tube surrounded by a 77 degree reflector covered by flat faced diffusers. I swapped out all of the flat panels with glass domes except for one D1-AIR and One B1-AIR.

Before making that swap, I tested the D1 with dome against a standard Profoto head using different modifiers at different degrees of head protrusion into the modifiers and found no appreciable difference in light metering … across the face of the modifier, or at the subject. I also tested it with our Mola 33" dish and found the same comparable results. I kept one D1 and B1 with the flat diffuser because I love the Profoto D1/B1 grids that slip flush over the front of the head. Very compact to carry.

Frankly, Profoto should have made the dome standard, and offered the option of a flat glass and grids

I would not want the B2 Head to have a protruding glass dome because it would defeat the purpose of being so small/light weight … besides, it isn't an option anyway.

I've now sold all of my Profoto pack/head system and work with the Monos … except one Acute B600AIR pack-head kit I use for overhead boomed lighting because of the small head verses the bigger-heavier mono-lights.

As far as I know, no other strobe mount allows you to slide a shoot-into modifier deeper or shallower to alter the lighting quality from the same mod.

BTW, I'm not anti-Elinchrom. I still use a Quadra Lithium kit … I solved part of the flimsy plastic mount issue by permanently epoxying an EL Mount Adapter to the Quadra mount after one of the mount flanges broke off on the Quadra head. Even after all that, I still can't really use my much loved 39" Rotalux Deep Octa on a mobile boom arm:facesmack:

However, as I mentioned before … there are so many good lighting choices now coming on-line that it is a wealth of riches for all of us. I love hearing about all of them, and especially like that so many folks are interested in lighting and working with it.

I'd love to see a higher sync speed and a PC outlet on the next Sony A7R-III camera:thumbs:

Marc
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
...However, as I mentioned before … there are so many good lighting choices now coming on-line that it is a wealth of riches for all of us. I love hearing about all of them, and especially like that so many folks are interested in lighting and working with it.

I'd love to see a higher sync speed and a PC outlet on the next Sony A7R-III camera:thumbs:

Marc
I agree and that was my intention of starting this thread to open up these Sony specific discussions in the Sony forum where it may go missing in the Lighting specific forum or be met with responses of "switch to Canon, Nikon, or MF." In any case though I think the last 6-9 months have sort of been a true "turning point" to own Sony cameras. They sort of revolutionized what mirrorless was thought to be able to do AF and responsiveness wise with the A6xxx/second generation FE bodies.
 

dmward

Member
Unfortunately, x sync speed is tied to the ability to build shutters that have fast enough curtains. I expect that's a cost vs performance issue. Along with the consideration that the faster the mass moves the more its likely to cause camera shack.

When I was testing the Nissin system I found that rear curtain sync is unavailable because its a camera set flash condition. The Air system requires that the camera be set to wireless which excludes RCS as an option. The other camera menu option in that list is slow sync. Will be interesting to see how Godox and others address that situation.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
When I was testing the Nissin system I found that rear curtain sync is unavailable because its a camera set flash condition. The Air system requires that the camera be set to wireless which excludes RCS as an option. The other camera menu option in that list is slow sync. Will be interesting to see how Godox and others address that situation.
besides that it is really not that user friendly requiring the invisible menu diving? I am really looking forward to the Sony version.

For the first one to offer radio wireless option, it was OK. But, given a choice, I would avoid it altogether.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Received unofficial word that there may be ongoing testing in Germany for a Sony Priolite controller as well. Priolite has a couple of interesting strobes that support HotSync (similar to HyperSync,) is battery powered, can be used as a AC/DC unit, supports Priolite/Bowens S/Hensel modifiers, and there's a pack/head version of the strobe as well.

Just another potential option down the line. This year may see more of my camera budget applied to lighting than cameras/lenses.
 

dmward

Member
HERE is a page I just added to my knowledge page describing two frame masking technique. The Units/Alt feature on the AD600 started the discussion about its capabilities. Once I did some research I thought I'd simulate it to see how complicated it would be to use in Photoshop.

Now I am even more eager for the Sony variant to be available from Godox. The Hensel trigger set and the masking software together are nearly the same price as two AD600s.

I am lobbying for them to add the feature to the other lights that are supported in the X system.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Unfortunately, x sync speed is tied to the ability to build shutters that have fast enough curtains. I expect that's a cost vs performance issue. Along with the consideration that the faster the mass moves the more its likely to cause camera shack.

When I was testing the Nissin system I found that rear curtain sync is unavailable because its a camera set flash condition. The Air system requires that the camera be set to wireless which excludes RCS as an option. The other camera menu option in that list is slow sync. Will be interesting to see how Godox and others address that situation.
Yes, understood. With Nissin you have to set "Wireless" in the camera menu, so you cannot then select "Rear-Sync". The revealing question is whether that is also true for Nissin AIR-1 for Canon and Nikon TTL use.

I'm not sure why Nissin had to make the "Wireless" setting mandatory. I sure hope that isn't true for other wireless options like Profoto AIR TTL. Profoto AIR for Canon and Nikon allows use of Rear Sync with TTL … 2nd shutter sync can be set in-camera or selected via the sync button on the AIR Transceiver.

- Marc
 

dmward

Member
Yes, understood. With Nissin you have to set "Wireless" in the camera menu, so you cannot then select "Rear-Sync". The revealing question is whether that is also true for Nissin AIR-1 for Canon and Nikon TTL use.

I'm not sure why Nissin had to make the "Wireless" setting mandatory. I sure hope that isn't true for other wireless options like Profoto AIR TTL. Profoto AIR for Canon and Nikon allows use of Rear Sync with TTL … 2nd shutter sync can be set in-camera or selected via the sync button on the AIR Transceiver.

- Marc
The specifications on page 16 of the manual specifically list RCS for Canon and Nikon and exclude it for Sony.

My suspicion is that Sony does something in the firmware to control communications with flash attached to hotshoe. That's why the three flash settings in the menu. Probably part of the good news / bad news with the multi function interface hotshoe.

Will be interesting to see if Godox has found a way around it.
 
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