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Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I had a chance to play with the Priolite last night to make a few test shots of one of our flowering plants. I gotta say that I'm impressed with the light quality and the ease of use so far. I'm able to sync at any shutter speed up to 1/8000 of a second (the maximum speed for the A7 series) at any power level and that's really a huge deal to me.

It literally is plug and play. There aren't the extremely funky menus of the PCB Cyber Commander. The mount is very secure as it uses Bowens, Hensel, Priolite, or Profoto modifiers with adapters. According to Priolite, it is recommended that EFCS is off when syncing above x-sync speed for consistency but I accidentally took a shot at 1/4000 of a second and it still came out well. I'll post some pics later. All shots were taken with the Mola Demi w/ sock and the Mola Rayo.

I'll post out a few SOOC shots when able.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I had a chance to play with the Priolite last night to make a few test shots of one of our flowering plants. I gotta say that I'm impressed with the light quality and the ease of use so far. I'm able to sync at any shutter speed up to 1/8000 of a second (the maximum speed for the A7 series) at any power level and that's really a huge deal to me.

It literally is plug and play. There aren't the extremely funky menus of the PCB Cyber Commander. The mount is very secure as it uses Bowens, Hensel, Priolite, or Profoto modifiers with adapters. According to Priolite, it is recommended that EFCS is off when syncing above x-sync speed for consistency but I accidentally took a shot at 1/4000 of a second and it still came out well. I'll post some pics later. All shots were taken with the Mola Demi w/ sock and the Mola Rayo.

I'll post out a few SOOC shots when able.
Do show some results … I'm dying to see:thumbup:

I'm moving all Profoto gear to my Florida studio and need some decent lighting for the few months I'm in Michigan … which doesn't have to be Profoto.

What do you mean that you could high-speed-sync at any power level? I understand that a more powerful strobe will naturally put out more light on HSS than a speed-light … what I do not know is how much light the strobe puts out when set to HSS? Has anyone used a flash meter to measure?

Thanks,

- Marc
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Do show some results … I'm dying to see:thumbup:

I'm moving all Profoto gear to my Florida studio and need some decent lighting for the few months I'm in Michigan … which doesn't have to be Profoto.

What do you mean that you could high-speed-sync at any power level? I understand that a more powerful strobe will naturally put out more light on HSS than a speed-light … what I do not know is how much light the strobe puts out when set to HSS? Has anyone used a flash meter to measure?

Thanks,

- Marc
Above flash sync the Priolite HotSync strobes act as a constant light source so stopping ability is determined by shutter speed, as it is with other ambient light sources. This is due to a relatively slow (long) single flash duration (v. the HSS implemented with many IGBT type strobes) of around 1/200th of a second.

The reason you can sync at any power and speed is due to the controller altering the timing of when the flash fires with the camera when the shutter is pressed. One would not be limited by strobe syncing speed as the timing adjustments with various power levels is done automatically by the controller. I'm sure an engineer could probably explain it even further than I just did.

***I don't have a light meter to do an accurate measure of Priolite claims yet (my PCB Cyber Commander had a light meter on the back of it). It was accurate enough for what I needed but I will probably invest in a Sekonic after I buy these lights.***

Marc since you use medium format primarily you would probably be better served by the non-HotSync lights (if you choose that route) as they are rated to sync at up to 1/2500 of a second at 1000ws for that version. They're a bit less expensive as well when compared to the HotSync versions.

This was a SOOC test shot with the A7RII + 35/1.4 Distagon @ ISO100 | f/7.1 | 1/8000 sec | 500w/s (Full Power)... I will ask my wife to be my test model for some other demo shots since it's raining too much to go outdoors today to test this flash's abilities in the sun.

-Priolite MBX500HS Test Shots by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Thanks for the answer Hired Arm.

Actually, I'm primarily interested in lighting for the Sony A7R-II. I have the lighting down pat for my MF CS system which already syncs at 1/1000 using Profoto AIR at any power setting.

My Sony kit tends to be the more transportable system when traveling back and forth, so Remote TTL and HSS is of great interest because the normal sync on the A7R-II is 1/160 with strobes. Currently I only have a couple of Nissin speed-lights with their TTL remote transmitter which are okay IF you just need fill or any lower power requirement.

Unfortunately, there isn't TTL or HSS for Sony with the Profoto, just Canon and Nikon … at least not yet.

So, if I understand you correctly, Hot-Sync allows regular full power output like 500W/s at any shutter speed faster than 1/200 … it isn't a HSS pulsed output which limits the actual amount of light on the subject, right? (which is why I wondered what the actual meter reading would be between 500 W/s @ normal sync (1/160) and Hot-Sync.

A real informative test of Hot-Sync would be a very bright background behind a back-lit shaded subject using a higher shutter-speed to control that background:clap:

Or a beauty dish shot with the Batis 85/2 @ f/2, again using what ever shutter-speed was needed to control the ambient.

Or am I off base and not getting it right?

Thanks,

- Marc
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thanks so much for the Priolite tests. I haven't received mine yet.

Two questions:
1) Does the remote require the Sony multi-interface shoe adapter on the camera to work?: Sony Multi-Interface Shoe Adapter ADPMAA B&H Photo Video

2) Are your 1/8000th test shots done with EFCS on or off? Did you see any problems with keeping EFCS turned on at any time?

Thanks man!
1) AFAIK, yes it does although it may work with the hotshoe adapter Sony sells. What camera are you shooting with these days? I still have my A7mkI and my modified A7RmkI to test on if it's needed for anyone that is still shooting those bodies. I only have the demo kit until Wednesday then it has to go back to Priolite. I'm buying my lights tomorrow.

2) This shot was done with EFCS off. It is recommended by Priolite to turn EFCS off for shutter speeds above 1/1000 of a second FOR CONSISTENCY as you choose faster shutter speeds with the caveat that EFCS will actually help freeze action a bit better by up to a stop. For instance you may be able to get away with a 1/2000th EFCS shutter speed that would normally require 1/4000th. This recommendation is based on how the sensor readout works for EFCS.

I did take this shot below at 1/4000th of a second (as a test... but mostly by accident) without turning EFCS. Metadata can be seen by clicking the link but the important part is this: SOOC | A7RII | ISO 100 | SZ 55/1.8 FE @ f/1.8 | 1/4000th of a second shutter.

The highlights are slightly blown out on the white parts of the hydrangea flowers but it may be possible to recover in PP if necessary.

PrioliteTests 2 by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thanks for the answer Hired Arm.

Actually, I'm primarily interested in lighting for the Sony A7R-II. I have the lighting down pat for my MF CS system which already syncs at 1/1000 using Profoto AIR at any power setting.

My Sony kit tends to be the more transportable system when traveling back and forth, so Remote TTL and HSS is of great interest because the normal sync on the A7R-II is 1/160 with strobes. Currently I only have a couple of Nissin speed-lights with their TTL remote transmitter which are okay IF you just need fill or any lower power requirement.

Unfortunately, there isn't TTL or HSS for Sony with the Profoto, just Canon and Nikon … at least not yet.

So, if I understand you correctly, Hot-Sync allows regular full power output like 500W/s at any shutter speed faster than 1/200 … it isn't a HSS pulsed output which limits the actual amount of light on the subject, right? (which is why I wondered what the actual meter reading would be between 500 W/s @ normal sync (1/160) and Hot-Sync.

A real informative test of Hot-Sync would be a very bright background behind a back-lit shaded subject using a higher shutter-speed to control that background:clap:

Or a beauty dish shot with the Batis 85/2 @ f/2, again using what ever shutter-speed was needed to control the ambient.

Or am I off base and not getting it right?

Thanks,

- Marc
Marc that is 100% correct and not off base at all.

The Priolite system does not shoot pulsed light. It's just one long duration flash (it lasts 1/200th sec) that is automatically timed for by the HotSync controller for whatever shutter speed selected by the photographer on the camera. You don't have to select any special flash modes... I left mine on fill flash, plugged in the controller, locked it down, and started to shoot.

The Priolite HS system does not have TTL capability currently and I'm not sure if that is something can be added through firmware updates or not. It's not a huge deal to me that the Priolite's are missing TTL but I understand how or that it may be a deal breaker for some photographers.

I am planning to do exactly those tests today (and planned to do them for this past weekend because the ability to go cord free is half the fun) except I don't know exactly how bright I can get the background with all the rain that we are experiencing in NC over the weekend (and all throughout this coming week). I've made my decision to purchase a set already so worst case I can do those same tests when they come in in case the one that happens today isn't helpful enough with our ambient conditions.

***FWIW the first flower shot above was taken with the Mola Demi with the sock on. The accidental flower shot (with the 55 FE) was taken with the Mola Rayo that I just got last week. I believe that the Rayo throws out a significant amount of additional/focused light as the light wasn't at full power (if I remember correctly it was about 3 stops from max) for that picture while the Demi show was at full power.***

You can also try the lights for yourself using this link. The cost is $200 (insured, shipped, and return shipping included) and they put a $500 hold on your card until the lights are returned. The $200 can be applied to the cost of a lighting kit if you decide to buy after your testing is done.

TRY BEFORE YOU BUY
 

rjp85

Member
1) AFAIK, yes it does although it may work with the hotshoe adapter Sony sells. What camera are you shooting with these days? I still have my A7mkI and my modified A7RmkI to test on if it's needed for anyone that is still shooting those bodies. I only have the demo kit until Wednesday then it has to go back to Priolite. I'm buying my lights tomorrow.
I have the A7R2. When I read this page: Introducing Priolite SONY HSS HotSync up to 1/8000th shutter speed at the bottom it says "Camera must use SONY multifunction hotshoe."

So I took that to mean that you need this adapter: Sony Multi-Interface Shoe Adapter ADPMAA B&H Photo Video although I might be misunderstanding what they meant (I currently have the adapter installed in my hot shoe anyway).

Are you using that adapter, or did you just slide the remote right into the camera's hot shoe and it worked?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I have the A7R2. When I read this page: http://priolite.us/sony_hss at the bottom it says "Camera must use SONY multifunction hotshoe."

So I took that to mean that you need this adapter: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/913654-REG/sony_adpmaa_multi_interface_shoe_adapter.html although I might be misunderstanding what they meant.

Are you using that adapter, or did you just slide the remote right into the camera's hot shoe and it worked?
The RC-HS slides directly into the hotshoe. You can lock it down afterwards. They probably mean the MIS (multi-interface hotshoe) when they called it the multifunction shoe. I think every Sony system camera after the NEX-6 has the MIS hotshoe I was just unsure of the camera you used. You'll have no issues and don't need an adapter.

Priolite RC-HS Controller for Sony by Tre Nelson, on Flickr
 

dmward

Member
Marc that is 100% correct and not off base at all.

The Priolite system does not shoot pulsed light. It's just one long duration flash (it lasts 1/200th sec) that is automatically timed for by the HotSync controller for whatever shutter speed selected by the photographer on the camera. You don't have to select any special flash modes... I left mine on fill flash, plugged in the controller, locked it down, and started to shoot.

The Priolite HS system does not have TTL capability currently and I'm not sure if that is something can be added through firmware updates or not. ...
Its my understanding that TTL requires IGBT to work since its based on reading the light striking the subject and turning it off when the proper exposure is reached. That requires an on/off power feed to the tube.

The long burn approach Priolite has engineered has benefits but probably at the expense of TTL.

It sounds, for the description like an engineered solution to the PW HyperSync hack. Well thought out and implemented. Will be interesting to see if there is noticeable gradation on a smooth white background. Its something everyone talks about but that I've found has little real impact in real life except in a studio situation, which usually doesn't required HSS anyway.

I love my AD600 and TTL, but the Priolite sounds like a great solution as well.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Its my understanding that TTL requires IGBT to work since its based on reading the light striking the subject and turning it off when the proper exposure is reached. That requires an on/off power feed to the tube.

The long burn approach Priolite has engineered has benefits but probably at the expense of TTL.

It sounds, for the description like an engineered solution to the PW HyperSync hack. Well thought out and implemented. Will be interesting to see if there is noticeable gradation on a smooth white background. Its something everyone talks about but that I've found has little real impact in real life except in a studio situation, which usually doesn't required HSS anyway.

I love my AD600 and TTL, but the Priolite sounds like a great solution as well.
I agree and have appreciated all of your testing with the Godox lights they seem to be another great option. It's all just a different solution to a similar problem. I agree that it's similar in many ways to how PocketWizards, Elinchrom HS, Phottix ODS, etc. work in principle but I'm unsure if they have the same protocols to accomplish this. I do like how everything is extremely seamless and straightforward. There's no messing around in menus or special settings required... Just plug the RC-HS in and start shooting. I haven't worked with multiple lights yet but there's a Teams (Priolite's name for lighting groups) section of the controller and the light ID section of the remote allows up to 9 lights per team.

I'm uneducated on TTL technology specifics but they do offer non-HotSync lights that have short flash durations. These are marketed more towards MF leaf shutter systems, although they can be used with any camera up to x-sync.
 

dmward

Member
I had a session yesterday with a couple and relied on the 600TTL to help with main subject lighting with bright sun.
That got me to thinking about how to combine camera Flash Exposure Compensation with light Flash Exposure Compensation.

So, today I took Manny outside and did a series of shots to illustrate the effect.

HERE is a page I added to my site detailing how it works.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Well... I just bought 2-MBX1000HS units, a Sony RC-HS plus a couple wide umbrella reflectors, and 2 Profoto adapters. Should be here in a couple of weeks from Germany.
 

dmward

Member
Yeah. Time to sell the PCB Einstein.
I had Einsteins with VML battery packs. They were great lights. When PW introduced the ControlTL module for them I did some beta testing.
I sent several emails to PCB and PW suggesting that they implement HSS since the IGBT wouldn't permit Hypersonic. PCB went to some length in an email debunking my request saying it was too difficult to get HSS to work reliably in a light like the Einstein.

We've come a long way baby. :thumbup:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I had Einsteins with VML battery packs. They were great lights. When PW introduced the ControlTL module for them I did some beta testing.
I sent several emails to PCB and PW suggesting that they implement HSS since the IGBT wouldn't permit Hypersonic. PCB went to some length in an email debunking my request saying it was too difficult to get HSS to work reliably in a light like the Einstein.

We've come a long way baby. :thumbup:
Yeah they are a great light when it comes to light quality, color consistency, price, value, etc. I don't know the direction the company is going since PCB passed last year though. You really don't hear much out of them these days and I hope that their innovation wasn't lost with him.

I don't doubt HSS was a difficult job for the engineering team within the company to reverse engineer but it doesn't mean it can't be done. I imagine that the issue was to implement HSS and maintain their color consistency. Still, even without HSS, it's a great entry level product that punches well above it's weight class when it comes to output results.

The PCB Einstein is definitely one of the best products at ~$500 new on the market (for the strobe alone) to get people into studio flash photography. Approximately $800 gets you shooting a color consistent 640ws light that goes down all the way to 2.5ws of power remotely on a stable air-cushioned light stand. IMO the biggest limitation to PCB stuff is the Balcar mount when using very large modifiers... If they were fitted with Bowens or Profoto mounts then maybe I would've invested more heavily into the system.
 

rjp85

Member
Well... I just bought 2-MBX1000HS units, a Sony RC-HS plus a couple wide umbrella reflectors, and 2 Profoto adapters. Should be here in a couple of weeks from Germany.
Congrats. Are you concerned that the 1000 units don't have LED modeling lights (from what I can see in the pictures)? One of the features I like about the 500 units are the decently bright, but low-power daylight-balanced LED modeling lights.

Good news for me, my Priolite stuff is coming on Saturday via FedEx. It was starting to feel like they forgot about my order, lol.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Congrats. Are you concerned that the 1000 units don't have LED modeling lights (from what I can see in the pictures)? One of the features I like about the 500 units are the decently bright, but low-power daylight-balanced LED modeling lights.

Good news for me, my Priolite stuff is coming on Saturday via FedEx. It was starting to feel like they forgot about my order, lol.
Only the M-Pack1000/HS has an LED modeling lamp on the head. The 1000w has a 100w halogen and the 500w units sport a 80w halogen. Only the 1000w units sport a proportional model lamp as well but it's or a huge deal for me. I only use it to position the light then I turn it back off.

Congrats on your delivery. You're going to like them I believe.
 
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