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Sony Alpha MIS Strobe/Flash Options

iiiNelson

Well-known member
It seems that Sony is starting to actually get some native TTL/HSSsupport when it comes to flash options finally. There's Phottix, Elinchrom, Godox/Cheetah/Flashpoint, Pixel King, Nissin Air, and of course Sony all set to release native options to allow on and off camera flash support. The point of this thread is to have a definitive source for everyone to add their first hand experiences and any testing done with MIS flash options for Sony Alpha.

So far I only have experience with PCB Einstein and their native CyberSync Commander. It's 100% Manual but works extremely well. There are a few YouTube videos that detail how to get HSS working with these strobes using a Phottix Odin controller.
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
I've already secured the new Nissin Air 1 Commander and two Di700A Speed-lights for Sony ADI/P-TTL off-camera radio controlled lighting with the Sony A7R-II.

It all works reasonably well. I've tested it, but have not done so under pressure of a job. I have a wedding in a couple of weeks and will have a much better notion of how well they work.

The Di700A speed-lights are comparable in size to top models from Nikon or Canon, so they are unbalanced when used individually in the hot-shoe of the A7 cameras. I have two other smaller speed-lights I use when just using on-camera flash for fill: the very small Nissin i40, and a new Sony compatible Metz that's still smaller than the bigger Di700As.

Setting up the Nissin Air-1 system was tricky, and the binding instructions confusing. I finally muddled my way through all of it and discovered that you have to follow a strict sequence each time you go to use off-camera wireless TTL flash.

The camera has to set to wireless flash, and the speed-lights initially have to be set to normal TTL, turned on and then set to wireless TTL using the flash's controls … when you are finished, they have to be set back to normal TTL before turning them off. Other wise, the system doesn't reliably just turn on and off in wireless TTL mode. Once you do turn everything on, you can just leave it on and let it go to sleep when not in use.

I also set one of my custom buttons to toggle between Wireless flash and other standard flash settings, so I can move back-and forth between off-camera and on-camera.

TTL exposure compensation is possible per each off-camera unit being controlled.

HSS sync is possible up to 1/8000 by pressing and holding the Air-1 Commander's Pilot Button for 3 seconds. HSS uses higher energy, so the recycle time is extended to a minimum of 7 seconds to protect the flash from over heating. 7 seconds or longer is an eternity when shooting a wedding or portrait session, so I won't be using that option very often.

The speed-light do not have 1/4" sockets on the base of the flash and require use of the foot that comes with it to attach to a stand to mobile boom arm. The stands are not exactly a sturdy attachment device, and I recommend a more robust solution like a Stroboframe cold-shoe, or something like that.

BTW, if the A7R-II is set to silent shooting, the hot-shoe doesn't work. And don't count on hard-wiring anything to the A7 cameras as a back-up when working with strobes … they do not have a PC outlet.

- Marc
 
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dmward

Member
HERE is an article I wrote about Sony TTL metering speedlites.
I've been using the Nissin Air system since its been available. It works well. The only drawback is that it has no means of controlling remote speedlites via the system while there is a speedlite in the hotshoe.

I recently did some additional testing with the Nissin Air system to confirm how it accomplishes various functions in preparation for testing the Godox Sony variant radio signaling system. I am told the first units will be available by the end of this month via a Chinese source.

Here is an article describing how spot TTL metering works along with FEL on the A7 with the Nissin Air system. Since this is all camera based its reasonable to expect that it will work with any TTL capable speedlites.

I also confirmed that rear curtain sync, since its a camera setting, is unavailable with the Air system because it requires that the camera be set to wireless, which is exclusive of RCS and slow sync.

I've also used the Pixel King Sony trigger to provide FP-sync for Godox AD360s in H mode. This will also enable "Hyper Sync" with voltage based power control strobes. i.e. Those with increasing T.1 duration as power is reduced.

As one expects, I have been able to use X-sync triggers to fire manual strobes without a problem.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
To add to that, the Nissin Air HSS is totally manual. TTL does not work in HSS.

Hopefully, the Sony wireless will adress the defects associated with Nissin Air.
 

dmward

Member
To add to that, the Nissin Air HSS is totally manual. TTL does not work in HSS.

Hopefully, the Sony wireless will adress the defects associated with Nissin Air.
Vivek, TTL worked for me in HSS mode with the Nissin Air system. It reached full power well before 1/8000 shutter speed the way I was testing but it worked.
I'm going to go back and retest, since I was moving back and forth between TTL and manual and I want to be certain that I'm remembering correctly.

Just did a quick test and confirmed that TTL works in HSS mode.

Shutter at 1/500 and 1/1000 F stops of F6.3 and F8 with ISO constant at 400. Center metering. All the frames look the same on the LCD when reviewed. Also the histograms.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
To add to that, the Nissin Air HSS is totally manual. TTL does not work in HSS. …
Bullet point in the Nissin Instructions for Sony enabled AIR-1 with the Di700A Speed-Lights:

* High Speed Synchronization: In M/TTL Mode

- Marc
 

dmward

Member
Marc,
I haven't used the Di700a much in HSS mode but have used them for several weddings. They work well. I use them the same way I used the 600EX-RTs with Canon. Only difference is having to hold one speedlite in my hand for close axis fill so I can have the Air Commander in the hotshoe. Not a big deal.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Vivek, TTL worked for me in HSS mode with the Nissin Air system. It reached full power well before 1/8000 shutter speed the way I was testing but it worked.
I'm going to go back and retest, since I was moving back and forth between TTL and manual and I want to be certain that I'm remembering correctly.

Just did a quick test and confirmed that TTL works in HSS mode.

Shutter at 1/500 and 1/1000 F stops of F6.3 and F8 with ISO constant at 400. Center metering. All the frames look the same on the LCD when reviewed. Also the histograms.
My unit fails in this aspect. Inconsistent exposures ( i can understand darker frames if the flash power is exceeded but blown frames indicate that the TTL function in HSS mode does not work).
 

fotografz

Well-known member
HERE is an article I wrote about Sony TTL metering speedlites.
I've been using the Nissin Air system since its been available. It works well. The only drawback is that it has no means of controlling remote speedlites via the system while there is a speedlite in the hotshoe.

I recently did some additional testing with the Nissin Air system to confirm how it accomplishes various functions in preparation for testing the Godox Sony variant radio signaling system. I am told the first units will be available by the end of this month via a Chinese source.

Here is an article describing how spot TTL metering works along with FEL on the A7 with the Nissin Air system. Since this is all camera based its reasonable to expect that it will work with any TTL capable speedlites.

I also confirmed that rear curtain sync, since its a camera setting, is unavailable with the Air system because it requires that the camera be set to wireless, which is exclusive of RCS and slow sync.

I've also used the Pixel King Sony trigger to provide FP-sync for Godox AD360s in H mode. This will also enable "Hyper Sync" with voltage based power control strobes. i.e. Those with increasing T.1 duration as power is reduced.

As one expects, I have been able to use X-sync triggers to fire manual strobes without a problem.
Excellent info. Thanks! Nice work BTW. As a fellow wedding shooter, I appreciate what it takes to get that sort of off-camera lighting in the midst of controlled chaos that a wedding can be:thumbs:

Like you, I had some trepidation moving to Sony and loosing more sophisticated off-camera solutions available with Canon and Nikon.

When I shot weddings with the Sony A900 (old style hot-shoe), I used the Phottix passthrough TTL sender … but the off-camera flash wasn't TTL. Still worked well, but not ideal because you couldn't adjust the off-camera light remotely.

The way I'm thinking of solving the inability to use a Nissin speed-light as a master in the hot shoe for fill is to place it on a flip bracket with the AIR-1 in the hot shoe, (In past I previously used pre-radio Canon TTL speed lights for fill using the STE-2 in the hot-shoe and eliminated hard-wires while retaining the superior AF Assist of the STE-2 sender).

Your mention of the impending smaller Nissin i60A is good news because it will make such an application less awkward and more feasible, while getting the at-camera flash up higher and centered over the lens regardless of which orientation the camera is in. The AIR-1 Commander is small/low enough to make this work.

Almost all lighting at weddings and location portraits I've done in the past few years has been with Profoto AIR … Acute B600-AIR, B1-AIR and now a supplementary B2-AIR kit. My greatest wish is for Profoto to include Sony in their supported TTL protocols including HSS/TTL. Even though the Profoto AIR is not TTL for Sony (or my Leica S) it is easy to adjust from the camera no matter where the light is.

It seems I'm either shooting in heavily back-lit conditions at the wrong time of day (I shoot in Florida during the winter, Michigan in summer), or it's pitch dark by the time the clients get to some shots. In either case, lots of W/s and the ability to use HSS has become in demand more than ever.

Like this example:
https://fotografz.smugmug.com/Weddings/Wedding-Photos/Sams-Album/

HEY! Profoto … a little help here:ROTFL:

- Marc
 

dmward

Member
My unit fails in this aspect. Inconsistent exposures ( i can understand darker frames if the flash power is exceeded but blown frames indicate that the TTL function in HSS mode does not work).
That reminds me of the miscommunication problems I had with Canon when the 580EX twisted in the hotshoe. Maybe there is dirt or something interfering with the communication connections in the hotshoe. While the Multi-function shoe offers lots of communication options for Sony it does seem that the physical connections are a bit fragile.
 

dmward

Member
Excellent info. Thanks! Nice work BTW.
Thanks.

I too used the STE2 for wireless on bracket speedlite fill.

What I'm going to test as soon as its available is the Godox X1 trigger with a Nissin Di700a on top. Indications based on testing with Canon variant is that it will work. If it does, then the i60A is a perfect on-camera speedlite with the X1 trigger firing Godox TTL lights. That offers power options up to 600Ws with TTL. :cool:

Probably lighter and smaller than using a Godox TTL speedlite as master on the camera.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Don't forget you can hook up the Nissin to external packs like the Godox 360 packs. You could go a very long time and almost instant recycle power too. I use this a lot myself. Why I like having the Godox and Nissin system together. I'm waiting for more data on the new Godox portables David's testing now and the updated Nissin portable with even more power.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Really my only complaint (and it's a big one for long term investment) with PCB equipment is the Balcar mount. Obviously and it's well documented that Profoto is far and away better than anything else when it comes to mount security and available modifier options. The Bowens mount isn't too far behind though in security and modifier options for those of us on a tighter budget.

I've been seriously considering selling my PCB stuff, changing the mount on my Mola Demi to Bowens or Profoto (depending on which direction I go), and keep going from there. I know Profoto is available to rent (so that's always a great thing) but I also like to experiment and practice techniques around the house personally. So I'd like to buy into a system based on one of these mounts be it a B1/D1, a Phottix Indra, Godox or one of the many variants of it. Elinchrom is supporting Sony too but I think they may actually make a less secure mount than PCB.

The best thing about the Godox is that they also do inexpensive speedlights that play with the rest of the system.

On a side note, Guy can we get this to be a "sticky?"
 

JMaher

New member
Just to add to all of this. I have used the Nissin flash units with the Air commander with great success. The only real downside I see is they lack a little in power.

As to Godox, I purchased a few of the inexpensive studio strobes which work well in conjunction with my portable Godox units. Same trigger and the same ability to remotely change the output.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I love my Godox 360 system. I have 3 of them and I use them all the time for portraits and such. I actually have never even needed full power with them I get F8 on even 1/32 with some modifiers. I just did a two day all day shoot with them as to just light the background and one hair light. Used two studio strobes out front for main and fill. I went all day on the same batteries, never did need my spates. Next year same project I may just go all Godox. They seem to go on and on with batteries. I really love his kit as I sold all my studio units and when I need that I will just rent.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Thanks.

I too used the STE2 for wireless on bracket speedlite fill.

What I'm going to test as soon as its available is the Godox X1 trigger with a Nissin Di700a on top. Indications based on testing with Canon variant is that it will work. If it does, then the i60A is a perfect on-camera speedlite with the X1 trigger firing Godox TTL lights. That offers power options up to 600Ws with TTL. :cool:

Probably lighter and smaller than using a Godox TTL speedlite as master on the camera.
I would say the only concern I will have going forward with these Nissin speed-lights is the strength of the foot under duress … and stability of the whole rig when mounted on top of a sender attached to such a small camera (the old Sony-Minolta mount was fairly secure in the Phottix sender mounted to a bigger Sony A900, but still vulnerable to bumps).

I recall the days of Canon speed-light's foot busting off at the most inopportune times … until Canon reinforced it. The price one pays for less expensive choices I guess. Remains to be seen. A smaller on-camera speed-light like the i60A could go a long way in mitigating such an issue.

- Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Don't forget you can hook up the Nissin to external packs like the Godox 360 packs. You could go a very long time and almost instant recycle power too. I use this a lot myself. Why I like having the Godox and Nissin system together. I'm waiting for more data on the new Godox portables David's testing now and the updated Nissin portable with even more power.
My experience with using external packs on smaller speed-lights has been thermal shut down. I guess that would depend on shooting conditions, over-all time/rapid fire/intervals between sequences, and how much light is needed. The unknown with the Nissins is not IF but WHEN they will shut down. I haven't rapid fired these units yet to see the limits. The Sony units were pretty dismal, which is why I stopped using them as any sort of main lighting. Canon and Nikon were no better.

- Marc
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Have not ran into any overheating issues with it yet, not to say it won't happen but seems pretty good about it. I shot a lot of awards stuff where I pop off two frames back to back and nothing yet. As far as hot shoes well there all the same across the industry so that problem always exist. No issues yet on top of camera.

I do want to get the I60 unit though
 
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