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A9 Rumor: Clickbait or Possible

Annna T

Active member
Jorgen, I am sure they care about market share but they may care more about satisfying their targeted group of consumers. Sort of like a publisher that prints Bibles. There are lots of books sold of all types to all kinds of people but some publishers just try and do the best they can for their targeted consumer groups. Sony just might not want a consumer who's only reason to not buying a A7 is as silly as a battery life issue. Or one so dug in against change that they have a blue knuckle grip on their OVF's and will dig 6 miles down past all a cameras advantages to find something to cry about to justify their archaic norms and the tools they use. I have to ask how many other companies lenses can they use on their bodies and still have full function, AF, and IBIS with all of them??? To me this is a far bigger plus than battery life is a minus but hey I am a Sony customer what do I know?

I have no coin in this game and actually could care less what anyone uses. When I read "sky is falling" intensity complaints about a (at worse) slight annoyance issue for some genre photographers like battery life stopping a potential buyer my BS alerts go off being as I own and use this gear for work and pleasure. I should really just say nothing and let them puke their complaints on the net so others like them also don't buy a7's and infest Sony forums with their obsurd thinking but ..... After seeing it 40-50 times my switch goes off I guess. I don't classify Sony hardware any better than any other manufacturers gear out there but then on the flip side it surely is no worse. There is a select group of photogs that use a specific brand camera who if I was Sony I would strive to not getting them as customers. Lower marketshares due to the lack of sales to that group would be a plus.
Why are you standing up in arms as soon as someone makes a mild remark concerning a possible disadvantage ? I feel you are like a Don Quichote : there are no Sony haters coming to this forum that I know. I see only pros and enthusiasts weighting the advantages and disadvantages of different type of gear. Personally I'm not disturbed by the fact that non Sony owners are sometimes visiting this forum. To me it just means that they are possibly interested by what Sony does. I think that they have the right talk about it just like the owners of Sony's cameras. The fact that you were always standing with Minolta/Sony is rather an exception here. Most of those telling what they use have gone through several kinds of systems; for me that increases the interest of their remarks.
 
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Jim DE

New member
Annna T in this paticular case it was more a "straw on a camels back" effect. As I said initially my comments were not directed towards Jorgen but at the comment "people don't buy a7's due to battery life". I see this a fair amount around the web and it is building like the ARW file compression did. Just got tired of it...

I'll tone it down for ya Annna T ;) ... It just caught me at the wrong time but it was not directed at anyone specifically but more of a general rebuttal to the not buying because of battery comment.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Annna T in this paticular case it was more a "straw on a camels back" effect. As I said initially my comments were not directed towards Jorgen but at the comment "people don't buy a7's due to battery life". I see this a fair amount around the web and it is building like the ARW file compression did. Just got tired of it...

I'll tone it down for ya Annna T ;) ... It just caught me at the wrong time but it was not directed at anyone specifically but more of a general rebuttal to the not buying because of battery comment.
I'd go as far to say that people that let battery life alone stops them from buying a Sony had no intentions of ever buying a Sony. Battery life is about on par with every other mirrorless camera with Leica SL being the exception. I understand Jim's point on this and I agree that it's sort of ridiculous where there are some other bigger "deal breakers" in regards to Sony that lend themselves to a more credible argument.

For instance if size was your primary and nearly only reason to get into Sony then your native lens selection is smaller until the system is further built out (although I like and need fast lenses.) If the menu system isn't natural for you to wrap your head around the. I'd understand (although I have no strong issue with it personally.) If you don't want an EVF only viewfinder then these aren't the cameras for you whether you go mirrorless or DSLT. If you primarily are a sports shooter and feel more comfortable with a pro DSLR then I understand not going with a Sony.

Back to the battery life comments though, people decry battery life on Sony as a deal breaker but will praise Fuji or Olympus cameras with similar (or worse in some cases) battery performance by CIPA standards. Never mind the idea from many that Sony doesn't make "real cameras" and those type of elitist blanket statements are usually where I stop listening to a source. It's not really the difference of the opinion either. I have no problem with people voicing concerns or differences. Many people do that are Sony owners (including myself) but it doesn't always have to come from a place of absolute negativity.

I personally like that the battery remains interchangeable between APS-C and FF bodies personally. I realize this may not be the case but I like that Sony seemingly has more respect for those that have invested thousands into their cameras versus those that in reality probably never will.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
My first comment on this thread was actually meant to be a positive one: My hope that Sony by offering a more advanced A-series camera with a larger battery that would cater for a wider audience. Unfortunately, Sony owners seem to believe that their cameras are already perfect and cannot and/or should not be improved upon. I find that a strange attitude. My Nikon, Olympus and Panasonic cameras have lots of potential for improvement, something I don't fail to point out.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
My first comment on this thread was actually meant to be a positive one: My hope that Sony by offering a more advanced A-series camera with a larger battery that would cater for a wider audience. Unfortunately, Sony owners seem to believe that their cameras are already perfect and cannot and/or should not be improved upon. I find that a strange attitude. My Nikon, Olympus and Panasonic cameras have lots of potential for improvement, something I don't fail to point out.
No need to use a broad brush. The folks you are arguing (and yourself) enjoy the process. It is the same old arguments rehashed for the millionth time. Obviously some do not find it boring.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
My first comment on this thread was actually meant to be a positive one: My hope that Sony by offering a more advanced A-series camera with a larger battery that would cater for a wider audience. Unfortunately, Sony owners seem to believe that their cameras are already perfect and cannot and/or should not be improved upon. I find that a strange attitude. My Nikon, Olympus and Panasonic cameras have lots of potential for improvement, something I don't fail to point out.
That's a very unfortunate mischaracterization IMHO.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Back to the battery life comments though, people decry battery life on Sony as a deal breaker but will praise Fuji or Olympus cameras with similar (or worse in some cases) battery performance by CIPA standards.
Nobody has claimed that the problem isn't universal for mirrorless cameras. The GH3/4 and NX1 have longer battery life than the A7, but it's still much shorter than that of a DSLR. This is the Achilles heel of mirrorless cameras for professional use; small batteries and higher energy consumption. There are good reasons why advanced DSLR cameras have large batteries. Or have camera manufacturers and photographers been wrong all these years?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Nobody has claimed that the problem isn't universal for mirrorless cameras. The GH3/4 and NX1 have longer battery life than the A7, but it's still much shorter than that of a DSLR. This is the Achilles heel of mirrorless cameras for professional use; small batteries and higher energy consumption. There are good reasons why advanced DSLR cameras have large batteries. Or have camera manufacturers and photographers been wrong all these years?
No but the battery argument is suggestive that it is an exclusive Sony issue and the lone reason why some don't buy Sony. The fact remains that many shoot Sony professionally. Doesn't mean it's the right fit for everyone but if it doesn't fit then there's really no reason to continually tell people that it doesn't fit your style. Believe me... I can pick out an issue with every camera brand but it's an exercise in futility as it won't change many things about those brands of cameras.

It's okay to want improved cameras, as we all do, but then I seem to remember an argument about the rate that Sony releases improved versions of cameras too. Soooo how are we supposed to take the scatterbrained contrarians seriously?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
My first comment on this thread was actually meant to be a positive one: My hope that Sony by offering a more advanced A-series camera with a larger battery that would cater for a wider audience. Unfortunately, Sony owners seem to believe that their cameras are already perfect and cannot and/or should not be improved upon. I find that a strange attitude. My Nikon, Olympus and Panasonic cameras have lots of potential for improvement, something I don't fail to point out.
$3500+ cameras aren't for wide audiences really. You have people complaining that the lenses aren't cheap enough more frequently than not (outside the 28 and new 50) so I don't see a top of the line "pro model" as the one for the masses. It's no different than a D5 or 1Dx body.
 

jfirneno

Member
Great Googley Moogley

No good deed goes unpunished. Thanks to the Sony folks who enjoy the products, added to this post and try to keep it positive. Don't worry, we know Sony has faults but it is definitely moving in the right direction. The gloom and doomers are running out of ammo. I think I'll go look at the nice photos on the Fun thread.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Re: Great Googley Moogley

No good deed goes unpunished. Thanks to the Sony folks who enjoy the products, added to this post and try to keep it positive. Don't worry, we know Sony has faults but it is definitely moving in the right direction. The gloom and doomers are running out of ammo. I think I'll go look at the nice photos on the Fun thread.
Yes, we have to count our blessings. I'm sure we'd all agree, our A7R-II was a major improvement over the A7R. Still has lots of improvements to go IMO.

However, I would say some Sony folks can be a bit hypocritical.

If someone mentions battery power as a disadvantage if the A7 cameras, it triggers indignation and personal affronts … then as a rationale is compared to other Mirrorless cameras in lesser categories that are no better with power. Yet, Sony folks are all over the web (including GetDpi) getting in the face of DSLR users, MFD users, Rangefinder users as if this Sony stuff was the photographic messiah … all while implying that anyone who doesn't agree lacks intelligence.

Generally, it feels like Sony users can sure dish it out, but can't take it.

I got over the Sony "Inferiority Complex" while using a pair of A900s then A99 for weddings. Trust me, I was pretty much alone doing that. Now I have a A7R and A7R-II, and no DSLR or SLT, for general work. Not my favorite, not unfavored. Not something that inspires a bonding experience for me. It is just a camera folks. Another step along a journey littered with cameras thought to be the "next coming" … until the "next coming" actually came.

- Marc

P.S. like a broken record I say FIX THE INTERFACE.
 

ohnri

New member
I'd like to bring this thread back to it's original topic, the A9.

I'm not sure an A9 would interest me as much now that the a6300 sports camera is in my possession, although I always want a bigger buffer, so maybe ...

I do have a few thoughts though.

It is a joy to just have one battery type and one charger for all my Sony ILC's but I miss the challenges of dealing with all new, impossible to find batteries and giant chargers seemingly every time I upgraded my Nikons. What a thrill it was to obsessively pour over the Internet night after night looking for a second battery for my D4 because none of my multiple D3 batteries would work.

And the excitement of packing two insanely enormous chargers for every trip is not to be missed. You are just not a serious photographer if your gargantuan chargers and camera batteries aren't large enough to power your Tesla an extra 50 miles to your next artistic photo shoot.

Since the A9 will be a flagship camera Sony has to greatly cripple any video implementation to show how dedicated they are to actual photography. Three minute video time limits, lousy video AF, limited video DR, terrible video ergonomics, and no FF 4K video will do for starters. I think following Nikon's lead here is best since they have been making innovative cameras ever since they first copied Leica.

As for IBIS, it sounds altogether too much like a certain organization that is getting the poop bombed out of it by government drones and should probably just be eliminated as a feature entirely.

EVF's may make it easier for a lot of folks to focus or just to use a camera at all but let's face facts ... the EVF brings our cameras closer to electric appliances than the beautiful artistic objects of inspiration they should be. Unless you want Sony's flagship camera to be mistaken for a very tiny refrigerator or water heater strapped to your old google glasses, the EVF must go. Once you are seen using an OVF no one will think you ever use your appliance-like 12MP iPhone to take a snapshot or, God forbid, a selfie ever again. You are a photographer who only uses inspirational gear. Amen.

And finally, Sony should provide a roll of duct tape and a brick with the A9 so we can make it look and feel more like a Canon 1Dx II or a D5.

And finally, finally, using the Sony UI is like typing on a tiny keyboard where the letters are randomly hidden within other even tinier keyboards which are themselves constantly moving to strange and interesting locations.

Sony, really, fix your magical shape-shifting menus and give us something an actual photographer has used without having a nervous breakdown.

-Bill
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
It is a joy to just have one battery type and one charger for all my Sony ILC's but I miss the challenges of dealing with all new, impossible to find batteries and giant chargers seemingly every time I upgraded my Nikons. What a thrill it was to obsessively pour over the Internet night after night looking for a second battery for my D4 because none of my multiple D3 batteries would work.

-Bill
Nikon's battery policy for their high-end models is indeed frustrating, particularly when the battery type for the "second tier" cameras has only changed once during the 14 years from the D100 to the current models. But you ain't seen nothin' until you've tried Panasonic. I had the pleasure of owning and using the GH1, GH2 and GH3 simultaneously, and they all used different batteries, which were all different from the battery of the L1 that I also used at the time. It must be said though, that the battery of the GH3/4 is probably the best and largest battery for any mirrorless camera at the moment, unless you count the NX1 which may or may not be in production.

When that is said, the GH4 is also the largest mirrorless out there, far bigger than the A7 II (although lighter) in spite of a sensor that is roughly a quarter of the size. It's not much smaller than a Nikon D7200. Although that may seem unnecessary large for a mirrorless camera with a small sensor, it does make for some excellent ergonomics with physical switches and buttons for all important functions, something the owners of those Panasonics appreciate.

If I should guess, this is exactly the direction Sony will be heading if an A9 is under preparation. A larger camera with better ergonomics and a larger battery, kind of a shrunken A99, would be much more tempting for users of current DSLR cameras and for users of the most advanced mirrorless cameras from Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji and Samsung. And for those who prefer a smaller body with tiny batteries, there's still the A7.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Sony could fix the power supply issue by having a vertical grip using two full size batteries, or a special made large capacity battery.

It would be good if they fixed the menu system, it is not very logical right now.

Best regards
Erik






Nikon's battery policy for their high-end models is indeed frustrating, particularly when the battery type for the "second tier" cameras has only changed once during the 14 years from the D100 to the current models. But you ain't seen nothin' until you've tried Panasonic. I had the pleasure of owning and using the GH1, GH2 and GH3 simultaneously, and they all used different batteries, which were all different from the battery of the L1 that I also used at the time. It must be said though, that the battery of the GH3/4 is probably the best and largest battery for any mirrorless camera at the moment, unless you count the NX1 which may or may not be in production.

When that is said, the GH4 is also the largest mirrorless out there, far bigger than the A7 II (although lighter) in spite of a sensor that is roughly a quarter of the size. It's not much smaller than a Nikon D7200. Although that may seem unnecessary large for a mirrorless camera with a small sensor, it does make for some excellent ergonomics with physical switches and buttons for all important functions, something the owners of those Panasonics appreciate.

If I should guess, this is exactly the direction Sony will be heading if an A9 is under preparation. A larger camera with better ergonomics and a larger battery, kind of a shrunken A99, would be much more tempting for users of current DSLR cameras and for users of the most advanced mirrorless cameras from Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji and Samsung. And for those who prefer a smaller body with tiny batteries, there's still the A7.
 

UHDR

New member
my wish list would be:

1. no more weight gain
2. no more price gain
3. slightly up the resolution so i can use it as a super high DR 24MP APS-c.
4. improve EVF/low light capability (manual focus with stop down still too noisy at night).
5. improve color

after using A7r i realise i dont need 36 MP unless doing landscape but then i can always stitch. so just put a 50+ MP sensor in it so i can use APS-c lens at 24MP (im quite a fan of sony's own 16-70mm F4.)

A7r color was abit behind canon (especially asian skin tone).the mk2 improved and almost same as canon, so im hoping this new one can catch up or get close to fuji.
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
Hi,

Are you shooting JPEG or RAW? If you shoot JPEG than colour is created by the camera, but if you shoot raw it all depends on the colour profiles, and it can be a good idea to roll your own.

Best regards
Erik


my wish list would be:

1. no more weight gain
2. no more price gain
3. slightly up the resolution so i can use it as a super high DR 24MP APS-c.
4. improve EVF/low light capability (manual focus with stop down still too noisy at night).
5. improve color

after using A7r i realise i dont need 36 MP unless doing landscape but then i can always stitch. so just put a 50+ MP sensor in it so i can use APS-c lens at 24MP (im quite a fan of sony's own 16-70mm F4.)

A7r color was abit behind canon (especially asian skin tone).the mk2 improved and almost same as canon, so im hoping this new one can catch up or get close to fuji.
 

UHDR

New member
Hi,

Are you shooting JPEG or RAW? If you shoot JPEG than colour is created by the camera, but if you shoot raw it all depends on the colour profiles, and it can be a good idea to roll your own.

Best regards
Erik
i shoot RAW. The red/liveliness in asian skin tone is just too difficult to get right without spending hours/days if not impossible. i have already used the colorheckr and a fuji compact to help getting the colour as close as possible, but still not as pleasing as fuji sensor/processor combo.
 
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