Useless (or very inferior at least) focus magnifier on A7R2

[marktomaras]

The Problem:
When using the manual focus magnification feature on the A7R2 (and predumably on the other Sony cameras as well), the entire area of the viewfinder or rear LCD screen will fully enlarge to the half or full magnification level, effectively blacking out the field of view to the photographer by filling it with a small portion of the subject.

The Solution:
Rather than fill the area of the viewfidner with just a small portion of the subject, leave the full field of view of the lens to take up the majority of the viewfinder, and superimpose a small box in the center of the screen (or movable by the user) that contains a 100% magnification. This will allow one to observe a scene, aim the camera to put an important part of the subject in the 100% magnification square, focus, recompose, and shoot, all while never taking the photographer's eye off of the field of view. This is how SLRs worked for decades, and also how Lecia's range finder cameras have worked for decades (minus the magnification factor, of course). The reason is, this works! For the photographer, the field of view is paramount! A focus aid should not disconnect the photographer from the scene.

Here is a link to a petition to show Sony that this request is supported. Please sign it!
https://www.change.org/p/sony-sony-please-fix-a-huge-problem-with-the-a7r2-manual-focus-magnificatio...

youtube Link to see video of problem & solution:
https://youtu.be/SLbIXLvzknc

 

[engardeknave]

Magic Lantern for Canon does that. But I find it's still hard to compose with the picture-in-picture in the way.

A lesser known function of Magic Lantern is 'zoom on half-shutter'. This activates the magnifier when the shutter is halfway depressed (focus is assigned to a back button) and deactivates it when you let go. I didn't think this would be anything great at first, but it really turned out to be by far the best solution I've encountered. I experienced a huge increase in the number of in-focus photos shot with the 5DII & 85 1.2 wide open.

 

[CSP]

this is a a bad idea imho and inferior to the way it works today ! to focus and re-compose contradicts the idea of high precise focusing which is possible with this feature.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

this is a a bad idea imho and inferior to the way it works today ! to focus and re-compose contradicts the idea of high precise focusing which is possible with this feature.

Have to agree and I want a full screen magnified view so I can see better. That's the point if it. It's not a composing tool

 

[Vivek]

this is a a bad idea imho and inferior to the way it works today ! to focus and re-compose contradicts the idea of high precise focusing which is possible with this feature.

Panasonic m43rds offers this (from G1 on). I agree.

Lets get 14bit lossless RAW first.

Let Sony, the largest sensor maker, justify the performance of their sensor with decent processing power to match.

It is a real shame that they do not offer this possibility despite the hefty price tags on their cams.

 

[pegelli]

I don't think the current method is useless or inferior. I can see why what you propose would be handy sometimes, but most of the time I think I would prefer the current method because I want the magnified view as large as possible. So if they implement it I hope the old option will remain to be possible as well.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would say the Sony solution is OK for accurate focus, certainly not very practical for handheld shooting.

We all have some favourite features of our own.

The A7 variants are pretty much the only game if you want full frame mirrorless and they have a decent price point. The only alternative is really Leica.

That said, I would agree that there are many stupid things about the Sony A7. For instance, the focus assist magnifies around 5x, you should be able to choose between 5x and 12x. Well perhaps you can? It is not easy to find out in the menu system or in the manual.

But, there is no perfect system. You choose one and live with it's foibles and limitations.

Someone has commented about that lack of uncompressed 14 bit. Now Sony has uncompressed 16 bits. There has been an incredible lot of noise about some very rare artefacts caused by the delta compression part of the Sony raws. That was visible on some very specific subjects like star trails. DP-review has also some samples illustrating it.

So Sony gave us 16 bit uncompressed raws. So folks now complain about not having 14 bits uncompressed or 14 bits losslessly compressed. How many new raw file formats do they want?

If we go back to those compression artefacts, the person who really started it was Lloyd Chambers. I have some respect for his testing, but I have some issues with the way he publishes things. One is that he publishes his findings on his blog but you need to subscribe for details. If you subscribe you cannot share info. Lloyd was kind enough to share some raw files that shows the 'orange peel' artefacts but his conditions don't permit me to discuss my findings.

I am somewhat disturbed by the approach to making some statement but closing the door on discussion.

Sorry for meandering away from the original subject...

Best regards
Erik

I don't think the current method is useless or inferior. I can see why what you propose would be handy sometimes, but most of the time I think I would prefer the current method because I want the magnified view as large as possible. So if they implement it I hope the old option will remain to be possible as well.

 

[Lucille]

Useless or very inferior you say?

Maybe for you, works great for me.

 

[fotografz]

Not sure I'd agree that the mag feature on the A7R-II is inferior, let alone useless. Inferior compared to what? My experience is that it works as advertised.

While it is not specifically designed for manual focus hand-held work, it can be used for that IF one bothers to practice with it until it becomes more muscle memory than a thought process.

My mag function is assigned to the custom button right next to the shutter button, and after practicing with it has become pretty fast and reliable for work with my manual focus Leica M lenses.

I do use some additional techniques learned from focusing manual lenses over the years. Depending on how and what you shoot, you can get in the habit of returning the focus to infinity after each set of shots. If you look at the distance markers on manual lenses like the Ms, you'll see that a vast majority of the distance scale is packed together on the infinity end, and adjusting for focus between 10' and infinity is a very short throw (i.e., Fast!). This infinity technique also teaches you to move the focus ring in the same direction every time eliminating manual back-and-forth hunting.

Hope this makes sense,

- Marc

 

[Vivek]

@Erik. Lots of confusing things in many sentences.

The fact is that Sony have not yet offered lossless RAW (compressed or uncompressed) in any E mount cam.

They should.

 

[pegelli]

@Erik. Lots of confusing things in many sentences.

The fact is that Sony have not yet offered lossless RAW (compressed or uncompressed) in any E mount cam.

They should.

Sorry for continuing off topic, since it hasn't anything to do with the magnified focus view. However I thought they now provide lossless Raw for some of the newer A7 cams (A7ii and A7rii) with a firmware update, or wasn't it fully fixed?

 

[Vivek]

Pieter, Lossy uncompressed is the best they do (my RX1RII offers it).

Your doubt underlines exactly why i had to reiterate the fact.

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Both A7rII and A7II have loss less raw in 16 bit files. That is fact. Truth may be confusing.

Best regards
Erik

@Erik. Lots of confusing things in many sentences.

The fact is that Sony have not yet offered lossless RAW (compressed or uncompressed) in any E mount cam.

They should.

 

[Vivek]

Then one has to qualify the "truth". Is it local or global?

Any links to Sony's claim that is the case?

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have checked out the files using raw digger.

I am on travel with just an iPad, so I cannot post any evidence of my own right now.

But, you can check this info on DPReview: What difference does it make? Sony uncompressed Raw: Digital Photography Review

Keep in mind that Sony A7 models operate in either 12 bit or 14 bit modes. AFAIK only single shot modes without Long Exposure Noise Reduction are actually 14 bits.

That is relevant to some extent, as there is an observable difference between 12 bit and 14 bit files.

Best regards
Erik

Then one has to qualify the "truth". Is it local or global?

Any links to Sony's claim that is the case?

 

[mbroomfield]

Hi,

I have checked out he files using raw digger.

I am on travel with just an iPad, so I cannot post any evidence of my own right now.

But, you can check this info on DPReview: What difference does it make? Sony uncompressed Raw: Digital Photography Review

Keep in mind that Sony A7 models operate in either 12 bit or 14 bit modes. AFAIK only single shot modes without Long Exposure Noise Reduction are actually 14 bits.

That is relevant to some extent, as there is an observable difference between 12 bit and 14 bit files.

Best regards
Erik

Silent shooting and bulb also drop you down to 12 bit on A7xII bodies

RAW images recorded with this camera have a resolution of 14 bits per pixel. However, resolution is limited to 12 bits in the following shooting modes:
[Long Exposure NR]
[BULB]
Continuous shooting (including continuous shooting in [Superior Auto] mode.)
[Silent Shooting]
http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1520/v1/en/contents/TP0000818693.html?search=Silent

 

[Vivek]

Sorry for continuing off topic, since it hasn't anything to do with the magnified focus view. However I thought they now provide lossless Raw for some of the newer A7 cams (A7ii and A7rii) with a firmware update, or wasn't it fully fixed?

Is it any clearer as to the truth?

(14 bit lossy)

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The truth is that you are spreading bad info...

Best regards
Erik

Is it any clearer as to the truth?

(14 bit lossy)

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Thanks for correction!

Best regards
Erik

Silent shooting and bulb also drop you down to 12 bit on A7xII bodies

RAW images recorded with this camera have a resolution of 14 bits per pixel. However, resolution is limited to 12 bits in the following shooting modes:
[Long Exposure NR]
[BULB]
Continuous shooting (including continuous shooting in [Superior Auto] mode.)
[Silent Shooting]
http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1520/v1/en/contents/TP0000818693.html?search=Silent

 

[pegelli]

Is it any clearer as to the truth?

(14 bit lossy)

To be honest no. The only thing I do know is that according to DPR the artifacts that can be seen with the old format at high contrast edges are gone and that the raw digger histograms are much more dense vs. the old format. Practically that's all that's needed for carefree picture taking from my perspective.
However I have difficulty understanding the term "lossy uncompressed". I'm not a digital or computer scientist, but I thought the 3 possibilities that exist are "uncompressed", "lossless compressed" and "lossy compressed". Can you explain for a layman what you exactly mean by "lossy uncompressed"?