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Thread: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

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    Question Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Sony appear to be quite optimistic with their introductory prices that tank fairly quickly.

    Why?

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Sony A7R II has been 2599 since release a year ago, seeing as the release cycles of Sony mirrorless bodies are quite short that's held its price for a long time.
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Check the "open market" prices and not the price fixed versions. It has gone down.

    Even the RX1R 2 is down by nearly 500.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    What are "open market prices?"

    The RX1r II is offered at the same price as always on the places that come up on a Google search.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Here in the US I feel that some Sony prices have remained relatively stable. The A7RII is still selling for ~$3200 (new US non-grey market models) from US dealers (although BH had a free grip or $200 gift card bundle around the holidays). I haven't seen many used examples sell for less than $2600, if at all. I've been waiting for the price to "tank" on that one to upgrade my A7R but it hasn't happened, and we're about a year out from it's release. Other models, like the A7SII, seem to be holding value pretty well too. (Side note: there was an episode of Shark Week this year on Discovery channel that used A7S or A7SII to film great white sharks hunting at night under moonlight that was pretty cool)

    If you're referring specifically to the GM lenses, as the pricing of the 70-200mm was just announced, there's still considerable hype around them and they are in relatively high demand. I imagine it could be a long time before GM lens pricing comes down...especially given the delay of the 70-200mm. Although I don't doubt their performance, some of their other lens pricing seems high (35mm 1.4, newly announced 50mm 1.4 for example), and I'd rather go back to Nikon (I do miss my D810) and use Nikon/Sigma if I need DOF that shallow than pay the premium for the newer Sony lenses.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    I bought my A7 for ~$1000 shipped (a few years ago and it was a lot less than the MRSP), similarly my A7s for 1500 Euros (again a while ago). My 55/1.8 was bought at 60% the MRSP.

    Those who are genuinely interested in buying these for better prices can and will do that shortly after their introduction.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I bought my A7 for ~$1000 shipped (a few years ago and it was a lot less than the MRSP), similarly my A7s for 1500 Euros (again a while ago). My 55/1.8 was bought at 60% the MRSP.

    Those who are genuinely interested in buying these for better prices can and will do that shortly after their introduction.
    Generally I think the prices are about in line with what other OEM's are doing. For many, the savings you gain by buying gray market or from unauthorized dealers aren't worth saving a few hundred for high dollar items. Generally speaking, in the USA the prices of a new unit don't drop unless a new model is announced/released, you have a great relationship with your dealer, the model isn't selling well, it's an open box unit, the manufacturer is running a sale, and/or you go gray market.

    Outside of that - you pay MSRP here and the value holds here. I know it's different overseas. I know electronics are much cheaper in Asia, much higher in Africa (if you can even find them), and mostly comparable in Europe/Oceania but sometimes slightly higher.
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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Sony appear to be quite optimistic with their introductory prices that tank fairly quickly.

    Why?
    Most official Sony dealers stick religiously to MSRP (I understand because if they don't they will not be Sony dealers much longer)

    Do you have any data that Sony prices in the grey market are significantly faster at lower levels vs. other brands?
    Just eyeballing a few examples I don't find a trend that would suggest this to be the case.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Guys, As I said, if you are really keen, you will find those prices. If you are going to be a brand fanatic, you will not.

    FWIW, I bought those gear to use as photography tools. I even shared some of my pictures here, unlike some of the talking heads.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Well I'm a photographer not a lawyer or a brand fanatic and the cheaper prices here in the uk are from Asia and being VAT registered i'm better off buying from a uk store, Sony is the only manufacture you can't buy grey market from the likes of HDEW (who do vat sales from a uk shop Nikon/canon/Pentax/Olympus etc)

    I'm not sure I understand your angst regarding Sony pricing and what kind of photographer pays what price.

    If it makes you feel better I got my A7RII from the official refurb store for 1500
    never trust the opinion of anyone who lists a load of gear in their forum signature. Dealers do not email me asking to buy your products.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Guys, As I said, if you are really keen, you will find those prices. If you are going to be a brand fanatic, you will not.
    I agree and if I was in the market for a new camera or lens I will consider these cheaper sources. If the price is low enough I will take the risk of more cumbersome (or lack of) warranty.
    However are these cheaper prices are really very different between Sony and other brands?

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    If it makes you feel better I got my A7RII from the official refurb store for 1500
    It makes no difference to me. What I pay for what I buy is the biggest concern and perhaps i shouldn't give a $hit about SOny pricing or price fixing.

    Also, I couldn't give a hoot about how their prices compare with that of X or Y or Z.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It makes no difference to me. What I pay for what I buy is the biggest concern and perhaps i shouldn't give a $hit about SOny pricing or price fixing.

    Also, I couldn't give a hoot about how their prices compare with that of X or Y or Z.


    Was there a point to this post?
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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    From what I've seen of Sony, they generally price their products higher than comparable offerings from other brands, be it televisions or cameras. There is a bit of hype surrounding them too and clever advertising ensures a faithful following, many insisting on Sony even if the alternative is just as good. I remember this from the 70s/80s when their 'trinitron' series of televisions became very popular.

    If a particular item can only be obtained from one maker then a premium is often unavoidable, like the iPhone when it first came out.

    As far as being able to get it cheaper elsewhere is concerned, it is harder to do in the US, at least from a place which offers you warranties and such. If that is not a concern then it should be possible although I personally have never done it and don't know how to do it either.

    Personally I am not bothered so much by the price of Sony gear as the performance seems to be quite good, at least from what I've seen. The drop in 'street price' may have to do with the perception of people. A lot of lay people think Sony is 'not up to the mark' in comparison with the established leaders - Canon and Nikon. I routinely get asked by family and friends 'what camera should I buy' and its an education for me that people still think 'bigger is better'.

    Heck, even on this forum there are many who diss Sony and the A7 series for reasons of, IMHO, confirmation bias.

    There, I've now set off another flame war.........
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Pradeep. what is so unique about Sony products that makes them command higher prices?

    ( BTW, Thanks for answering one of the queries about comparison prices vs X and Y. )

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Pradeep. what is so unique about Sony products that makes them command higher prices?

    ( BTW, Thanks for answering one of the queries about comparison prices vs X and Y. )
    I've often wondered that myself. Going back to the very early days, I remember our first color television set was a Sony Trinitron. At the time there were other makes out there as there always have been. However, Sony looked more sleek, refined if you will, with an inexplicable aura about it. It seemed that it exuded a certain charm. If you've seen Apple products over the years you know what I mean, they look different.

    The ads were, as I said clever. Rowan Atkinson came on one, saying ''I can't show you how good a Sony Trinitron Black picture is because (tapping on the camera lens) THIS, isn't''. Everyone thought the best stuff was made by Sony and if you had one in your home then you had 'status'.

    To be honest, Sony did make very innovative products, remember the Betamax vs VHS wars? Sony lost that one to JVC despite having a better product. Then the 'Walkman'? And the Hi8 vs sVHS?

    Thirty years later, they have shaken the world of photography with the A7 series of cameras.

    In the end it's all about perception. It's human nature to gravitate towards something that costs more money, not the other way around. The more something costs, the more attractive it becomes. Witness how Ferragamo shoes, Hermes handbags or Tumi luggage sells. If you are in a business on your own and show up in a beat up Ford you are less likely to make it than if you drove a BMW, the client/customer thinks you are poor because you are no good at what you do.

    Sony is no different. Heck, look at Leica. At the risk of another war, does it really perform three times better than a Sony? We've already argued whether a Phase $50,000 system is really better than Pentax which costs $10K.

    And like Phase, Sony too tanks in price on the used circuit, although not quite as precipitously.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Sony is less of a drain on your wallet than Phase is- well I guess I can take that as a good enough reason.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Sony appear to be quite optimistic with their introductory prices that tank fairly quickly.

    Why?

    Why not? I don't think it has anything to do with being optimistic.
    Obviously enough folks are willing to pay the price so that it works for them.
    If you don't like it, don't buy.

    Here is my question, which other company has a competing offering for the A7r2, feature for feature? I don't see one.

    Of course, other cameras can deliver great images too and fit certain uses better. So those get bought as well. I don't see the problem Vivek.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    I've often wondered that myself. Going back to the very early days, I remember our first color television set was a Sony Trinitron. At the time there were other makes out there as there always have been. However, Sony looked more sleek, refined if you will, with an inexplicable aura about it.
    Back then, there was more to it than just Sony's marketing prowess. Trinitron TVs commanded high prices because they actually were better. They were technically, measurably superior to standard CRT televisions. I sold TVs back in the 70s and it was simple...if you wanted the best and could afford a Sony, that's what you bought. It was no contest.
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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEvangelist View Post
    Back then, there was more to it than just Sony's marketing prowess. Trinitron TVs commanded high prices because they actually were better. They were technically, measurably superior to standard CRT televisions. I sold TVs back in the 70s and it was simple...if you wanted the best and could afford a Sony, that's what you bought. It was no contest.
    Ah, yes, you are right Mike, which of course is what it has always been about, better quality and better marketing.

    However, by the early 80s there were a few other options (Panasonic, sold as National in the east for example). By the mid 80s, there were many more and when LCD/Plasma hit the scene yet more. Still, Sony, for all practical purposes looked the best in the shops.

    As I said, it was that 'Apple-like' appeal to it. Innovative, cutting edge, smart and sleek offerings at a premium price. Even when the competition catches up, they maintain a higher price and people are willing to pay for it. Remember their bedside alarm clocks? Looked fantastic, didn't quite perform as well.

    FWIW, I have no Sony products at home now, except for their cameras, there are better choices available.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Sony appear to be quite optimistic with their introductory prices that tank fairly quickly.

    Why?
    Nicely summed up by Kirk Tuck, for those like yourself:

    The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: The "Meh" factor. Or why X is a "deal killer for me."
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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Likely to sell even more of the 1800 Euro 50/1.4s for Sony.

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.


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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    ...meh

    just kidding!

    good article and perhaps a blog i should read more

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    Re: Why do they do it this way? Sony and their intro prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    ...meh

    just kidding!

    good article and perhaps a blog i should read more
    Yes, well written.

    I prefer forums, where you can read everyone else's nonsense as opposed to just one person's - just kidding

    Seriously though, blogs are by their very nature, somewhat narcissistic, IMHO. Hard to be objective if you are a successful blogger. A lot of them also succumb to the pressures of the split penny which I suppose is inevitable once you are popular.

    My usual cynical perspective......
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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