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Thread: Sony's new camera A9

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I agree and this is telling/relevant review to firsthand accounts of using the A9 for actual action based work.
    I sat through this 47 minute video very patiently last night. It has convinced me to give it a shot. Only one way to find out if this camera will work for me.

    I love my Canon system, but the whole darned thing becomes so heavy and cumbersome. Have to carry separate batteries for the 7D2 and for the 1DX2, separate chargers, separate cards and readers (cannot read the c-fast card on regular readers). Considering you have to take the lithium batteries in carry-on baggage, I have half a bag full of just batteries between the two Canon bodies and my two Sony's (A7R2 and Rx1R2). This will be a huge weight (and probably cost) saving for me.

    The only thing is I am not sure if the Sony 100-400 is going to be as good as the Canon 100-400MkII which is superb. Given that the 24-70GM is so sharp (I found it sharper than my Batis 25), I expect it to be.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    I sat through this 47 minute video very patiently last night. It has convinced me to give it a shot. Only one way to find out if this camera will work for me.

    I love my Canon system, but the whole darned thing becomes so heavy and cumbersome. Have to carry separate batteries for the 7D2 and for the 1DX2, separate chargers, separate cards and readers (cannot read the c-fast card on regular readers). Considering you have to take the lithium batteries in carry-on baggage, I have half a bag full of just batteries between the two Canon bodies and my two Sony's (A7R2 and Rx1R2). This will be a huge weight (and probably cost) saving for me.

    The only thing is I am not sure if the Sony 100-400 is going to be as good as the Canon 100-400MkII which is superb. Given that the 24-70GM is so sharp (I found it sharper than my Batis 25), I expect it to be.
    I watched it too and it really is a highly objective account of the development and philosophy of the camera as it applies to photographing action IMO. The thing that I've come to respect most about Sony, beyond the innovation, is listening to the photographic community AND making changes to improve products based upon how people would like to shoot their cameras.

    There re aren't many companies beyond Fuji right now that seem to be following and embracing this change in how and what to market to potential customers.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 21st April 2017 at 07:22.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I myself am kind of split soul since that A9 announcement.

    While I was not paying much attention to Sony for their A7 line because of either too less resolution (12MP) or too high resolution (42MP) for my type of shooting and all the issues with not so great EVF and very poor battery life, the A9 has changed that completely for me.

    It just meets a few requirements that are important for my work, like 24MP (and NOT MORE), very fast (finally electronic shutter fully useable), high res EVF with improved brightness and NO more blackout and much longer battery life, great IBIS and finally the lens I was always asking for (100-400) I am very intrigued to get one. My problem is I would need to get rid of all my trusted Fuji and very likely also Olympus gear to finance a complete A9 setup including some lenses I need.

    This hit me completely unexpected as I was no longer expecting such a great match for what I want and need. Finally that switch would also allow me to work again fully FF and also start using my Leica M glass again on a body that allows also to connect the most modern Zeiss and G-Master EF mount lenses. I am pretty confident that most of my M lenses will work sufficiently nice on the A9, as they already did so on the A72.

    This is becoming a tough time for me
    If I'm to be honest, the Leica SL might be a better choice if you plan to keep and use your M lenses. While the body costs significantly more than the A9, you'll get the benefit of recording EXIF metadata and will have embedded lens corrections. The two SL zooms are really good optically and you can add R/Canon/Nikon lenses for longer focal lengths but you'll lose IBIS.

    If it were me and I was intent on going Sony, I'd sell the M lenses and replace them with Zeiss Loxia lenses which are comparable to Leica M lenses in performance and add the benefit of allowing closer focus. My most used lenses on my M9 and M9-P was the Zeiss Planar 50/2 (even with a Leica 50/1.4 Summilux in the bag) along with the Leica 35/2 Summicron (though I began using the Voigtlander 35/1.2 Nokton II more towards the end if I was photographing street/candid/people) so I can say confidently that the Loxia lenses probably won't disappoint you in any meaningful way.

    Just my opinion though as a former M owner/user that converted to Sony.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    In the 21st century cameras offered by Sony, switching to APS-C makes the action happen in the whole of the view finder.

    Forget the mirror slap and dumb OVFs.

    Also, there is a revolutionary no black out view finder unlike the dslrs.
    Yup, shooting with crop is much better with a mirrorless. Unfortunately, the A9 and all other mirrorless cameras except the A7R/II would offer just over 10MP in crop mode. In today's world, that doesn't really cut it. I get away with 12MP because I shoot on an amateur basis now, but I wouldn't offer that to a commercial customer except as microstock.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    The A6500 may possibly be a cropped option for some but again instandby that cropped sensor doesn't apply in an apples to apples comparison. It's just isn't the same look.
    If you need 800mm reach, that "look" isn't available to A9 users in any case. You can of course use the 500mm with a TC, but what you in reality get then is the APS-C "look" with uglier bokeh. Nikon users are luckier. They can just cough up $16,000 and buy the 800mm f/5.6. Or they can spend $2,000 on a D500 and get a 750mm f/5.6 equivalent with the 500mm f/4 lens. Guess what is the most profitable.

    While the A6500 is a fine camera, it's tiny with a small grip, and I doubt that it's comfortable to carry all day with heavy lenses, but I haven't tried. It's similar in size to my GX8 I believe, and I wouldn't use that with heavy lenses either. Is it weather sealed? The A9 seems only to be "splash and dust proof". I don't know what that means, but all my Nikon bodies have survived hours in pouring rain. They don't cancel races if the weather is bad, and "Sorry, you can't get any photos. Me and my camera could get wet." doesn't cut it.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I clicked on the link posted by K-H and I find Jorgen spinning the same in that FM thread as well.
    But obviously, Vivek. It's always fun to discuss with Sony users, and many of them get so sore when someone criticizes their camera, Sony marketing or any product that Sony ever made. Yes, I know I'm bad

    To be honest, I'm sure that the A9 is a great camera, and I'm actually quite excited by it. What sucks is the marketing. It tells a story that isn't reality yet, and might not be reality in at least a couple of years. It will work great for a lot of indoor sports with the 70-200 f/2.8, it will, if it can take the beating, work very well for photo journalists, and it's an obvious choice for weddings and other events. But what Sony shows on the website is almost exclusively outdoor sports, and the lenses for that aren't available yet. An amateur photographer can wait for more lenses and use the 100-400mm while he's waiting, but a professional sports photographer doesn't buy a $4,500 camera today unless he can use it tomorrow for all or most of his needs. That's like buying a car in November with scheduled delivery of the winter tires in April. You don't do that. Nobody does that unless he can afford to have the new car parked in the garage until spring.

  7. #107
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    If you need 800mm reach, that "look" isn't available to A9 users in any case. You can of course use the 500mm with a TC, but what you in reality get then is the APS-C "look" with uglier bokeh. Nikon users are luckier. They can just cough up $16,000 and buy the 800mm f/5.6. Or they can spend $2,000 on a D500 and get a 750mm f/5.6 equivalent with the 500mm f/4 lens. Guess what is the most profitable.

    While the A6500 is a fine camera, it's tiny with a small grip, and I doubt that it's comfortable to carry all day with heavy lenses, but I haven't tried. It's similar in size to my GX8 I believe, and I wouldn't use that with heavy lenses either. Is it weather sealed? The A9 seems only to be "splash and dust proof". I don't know what that means, but all my Nikon bodies have survived hours in pouring rain. They don't cancel races if the weather is bad, and "Sorry, you can't get any photos. Me and my camera could get wet." doesn't cut it.
    Canon EF lenses can be used with autofocus as can Sony A-mount. Again you're assuming that auto racing, which is what you do, is the only type of sports shooting. There have been pro sports photographers and photojournalists using this camera in real world testing/development. We sort of went over this a year or two ago with the A7RII where Chad Wadsworth showed real pictures taken at the Austin F1 Grand Prix (along with his usual stable of great concert/event photography). I don't think racing gets much faster than F1 (superbike may be the exception) and he didn't have any issues using a camera that isn't spec'd as high. As Vivek mentioned, one could crop the A7RII in APS-C mode and have 18mp still. In full frame mode it covers 45% of the sensor. In crop mode I'd assume about ~80% of the sensor is covered by AF points.

    Again no no one is arguing whether or not Canon and Nikon currently have a larger stable of lenses. They do. The EF mount is 30+ years old and the F mount has beeen around for 40-50 years I believe. Full frame E mount is 3.5 years old at this point. I expect more sport specific lenses to be released in the next 6 months to 2 years in time for Winter Olympics 2018, World Cup 2018, and the Summer Olympics 2020.

    The question is is what Sony offers adequate for you. If not then why question further? If so click the pre-order button or save the money for it.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    But obviously, Vivek. It's always fun to discuss with Sony users, and many of them get so sore when someone criticizes their camera, Sony marketing or any product that Sony ever made. Yes, I know I'm bad

    To be honest, I'm sure that the A9 is a great camera, and I'm actually quite excited by it. What sucks is the marketing. It tells a story that isn't reality yet, and might not be reality in at least a couple of years. It will work great for a lot of indoor sports with the 70-200 f/2.8, it will, if it can take the beating, work very well for photo journalists, and it's an obvious choice for weddings and other events. But what Sony shows on the website is almost exclusively outdoor sports, and the lenses for that aren't available yet. An amateur photographer can wait for more lenses and use the 100-400mm while he's waiting, but a professional sports photographer doesn't buy a $4,500 camera today unless he can use it tomorrow for all or most of his needs. That's like buying a car in November with scheduled delivery of the winter tires in April. You don't do that. Nobody does that unless he can afford to have the new car parked in the garage until spring.
    I don't think that it's the criticism that people mind. Some criticism is valid for some and some expectation is irrational IMO. I don't know one Sony shooter that is 1000% happy or doesn't believe there's not any room for improvement. I think we all have a wish list of features that would be beneficial for us. Many of us choose Sony because it ticks the most boxes for us.

    I don't really disparage Canon, Leica, or Panasonic systems (this is what I owned and shot in the past outside a couple of old film Vivitars) because they're all good systems but for me the Sony was/is a much better system for what I do and want in a camera. Doesn't mean it'll work for the next person and I generally steered people towards Canon or Nikon when getting into digital photography if they are novices that don't know what they want... now I feel quite comfortable recommending Sony to most as the system has matured greatly in a short period of time provided they can afford the costs of entry. No doubt Nikon and Canon have lower costs of entry and there are more used options to drive the prices down further. I generally buy everything new unless I'm looking for an older "character lens."

    Also you can't legitimately suggest the marketing isn't real if the pictures are taken with this camera and whatever lens combination that was used to make the image. It's just not logical when there are people that are actual professionals that have and continue to use this camera in their daily work over the last 3+ months. You also can't suggest that the marketing sucks when every time a Sony camera is introduced every Sony hater, skeptic, and "fanboy" alike all gather to discuss the merits and where it can potentially fit into their gear vaults. Clearly the marketing is driving some press and YouTube stars to switch on the webcams and the live social media streams.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    There must be something wrong with me: not being in the market for a camera like the A9, I don't compulsively watch and analyze Sony's "marketing."

    This thread is an example of where we've come, from a friendly group of internet friends, to a site that's often little better than LuLa.

    If you don't like Sony (or other brand) products, how about limiting your griping to a dozen or so posts and then moving on to something else?
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Canon EF lenses can be used with autofocus as can Sony A-mount. Again you're assuming that auto racing, which is what you do, is the only type of sports shooting. There have been pro sports photographers and photojournalists using this camera in real world testing/development. We sort of went over this a year or two ago with the A7RII where Chad Wadsworth showed real pictures taken at the Austin F1 Grand Prix (along with his usual stable of great concert/event photography). I don't think racing gets much faster than F1 (superbike may be the exception) and he didn't have any issues using a camera that isn't spec'd as high. As Vivek mentioned, one could crop the A7RII in APS-C mode and have 18mp still. In full frame mode it covers 45% of the sensor. In crop mode I'd assume about ~80% of the sensor is covered by AF points.

    Again no no one is arguing whether or not Canon and Nikon currently have a larger stable of lenses. They do. The EF mount is 30+ years old and the F mount has beeen around for 40-50 years I believe. Full frame E mount is 3.5 years old at this point. I expect more sport specific lenses to be released in the next 6 months to 2 years in time for Winter Olympics 2018, World Cup 2018, and the Summer Olympics 2020.

    The question is is what Sony offers adequate for you. If not then why question further? If so click the pre-order button or save the money for it.
    No, I don't think that motor sports is the only kind of sports, and I've stated clearly that I see this as a great camera for some kinds of sport, particularly indoor with the 70-200mm f/2.8. However, and I've said this before too, Sony's A9 page shows almost exclusively outdoor sports, men of which typically require long, large aperture lenses. That gives the impression that a system is in place that isn't. I doubt that Sony had adapted Canon lenses in mind, and I know that sports shooters shy away from third party adapters like the plague. They always fail at the most inconvenient time, and no one is responsible.

    Many will buy this camera even if the price is silly. Many will be happy with it too. I'm sure I would if I needed it and decided to buy it. But I doubt that those sports shooters that are targeted in the marketing will.

    This btw. isn't the first time Sony uses sports photography in their marketing without having their arse covered. They did it with the original A7 (motor sports photos in the catalogue), which made me borrow one to try it out. Not suitable to say the least. Then hey did it again with the original A99 (video showing gymnastics).

    The problem with older mirrorless cameras and motor sports isn't about speed, it's the viewfinder delay during bursts. If you do a pan shot and the car you follow changes speed, you don't notice until it's too late and the car is out of the frame already. F1 isn't more problematic than other cars. The relative speed of F1 (speed of the car divided by distance from photographer to car) is actually quite low compared to bicycles, water craft and other sports where you get closer to the action. The trickiest part is pan shots during overtaking, where the speed can vary a lot within fractions of a second. Unfortunately, those are also among the most important shots, since they show what happened when the winner took the lead. The A9 will be great for that and the 100-400mm is probably perfect for those shots, at least at some of the smaller tracks. If can do it on a rainy day too. However, my D2Xs does that just fine too. I have thousands of images to prove it. It's cheap too, and the battery lasts forever.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    There must be something wrong with me: not being in the market for a camera like the A9, I don't compulsively watch and analyze Sony's "marketing."

    This thread is an example of where we've come, from a friendly group of internet friends, to a site that's often little better than LuLa.

    If you don't like Sony (or other brand) products, how about limiting your griping to a dozen or so posts and then moving on to something else?
    In this day and age I've come to find since owning both Leica and now Sony that there are many closet fans and wishful owners on the internet that disparage ANYTHING they do to justify the superiority of the system they have. This always begs one to question why they hang out in forums or boards for which that state they have little interest in. Maybe it's me but I tend to not have that much time in my daily life.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Yup, shooting with crop is much better with a mirrorless. Unfortunately, the A9 and all other mirrorless cameras except the A7R/II would offer just over 10MP in crop mode. In today's world, that doesn't really cut it. I get away with 12MP because I shoot on an amateur basis now, but I wouldn't offer that to a commercial customer except as microstock.
    To me what is most important is getting the focus right and carrying as little in terms of weight as I can. Many small planes in Africa have a serious weight restriction. Plus I am getting older and no longer happy to lug heavy lenses and bodies if I can help it.

    To some extent the laws of physics dictate that long teles have to be heavy although Canon had managed to shave off quite a bit in its Mark-II renderings. However, Sony's 100-400GM is a bit lighter (1400g) vs Canon (1600g).

    Thus the camera makes a big difference. THe 1DXII is 1530gm vs A9 at 630gm

    As for the crop factor, I could of course use my A7R2 and crop the middle out, will still give me better results than the 7D2 with its noisy sensor, will also still get more Mpx out of it. Only problem is the poor AF and slow frame rate (relatively speaking).

    In terms of resolution and commercial quality, it does not matter to me at all since I am strictly speaking an amateur, have never made a penny from my photography, and at least for now do not intend to. So if my images can make it to my office/home walls, I am quite content. I have a beautiful pano from my 40D of the wildebeest crossing in Kenya that is 8 ft wide and hangs behind my desk.

    That's the other thing one can do to make up for lack of resolution to some extent, stitch images, although I admit would not be applicable in an action situation.

    There is always going to be some trade-off. For me, the A9 checks a lot of boxes though.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    No, I don't think that motor sports is the only kind of sports, and I've stated clearly that I see this as a great camera for some kinds of sport, particularly indoor with the 70-200mm f/2.8. However, and I've said this before too, Sony's A9 page shows almost exclusively outdoor sports, men of which typically require long, large aperture lenses. That gives the impression that a system is in place that isn't. I doubt that Sony had adapted Canon lenses in mind, and I know that sports shooters shy away from third party adapters like the plague. They always fail at the most inconvenient time, and no one is responsible.

    Many will buy this camera even if the price is silly. Many will be happy with it too. I'm sure I would if I needed it and decided to buy it. But I doubt that those sports shooters that are targeted in the marketing will.

    This btw. isn't the first time Sony uses sports photography in their marketing without having their arse covered. They did it with the original A7 (motor sports photos in the catalogue), which made me borrow one to try it out. Not suitable to say the least. Then hey did it again with the original A99 (video showing gymnastics).

    The problem with older mirrorless cameras and motor sports isn't about speed, it's the viewfinder delay during bursts. If you do a pan shot and the car you follow changes speed, you don't notice until it's too late and the car is out of the frame already. F1 isn't more problematic than other cars. The relative speed of F1 (speed of the car divided by distance from photographer to car) is actually quite low compared to bicycles, water craft and other sports where you get closer to the action. The trickiest part is pan shots during overtaking, where the speed can vary a lot within fractions of a second. Unfortunately, those are also among the most important shots, since they show what happened when the winner took the lead. The A9 will be great for that and the 100-400mm is probably perfect for those shots, at least at some of the smaller tracks. If can do it on a rainy day too. However, my D2Xs does that just fine too. I have thousands of images to prove it. It's cheap too, and the battery lasts forever.
    The original A7 is not in the same class as the second generation cameras much less the A9. That being said I have no doubt that it's possible to manually shoot action because several have. Same with the A99.

    There's a video above this that ptomsu posted of a photojournalist and professional sports photographer involved in the development of the A9 explaining the performance of... nevermind f*** it. You're right every Sony camera is a piece of s*** and they should just cash in the stock value and close down.

    For the rest of the Sony owners we will keep taking those impossible shots that Sony's marketing team is clearly falsifying.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    To me what is most important is getting the focus right and carrying as little in terms of weight as I can. Many small planes in Africa have a serious weight restriction. Plus I am getting older and no longer happy to lug heavy lenses and bodies if I can help it.

    To some extent the laws of physics dictate that long teles have to be heavy although Canon had managed to shave off quite a bit in its Mark-II renderings. However, Sony's 100-400GM is a bit lighter (1400g) vs Canon (1600g).

    Thus the camera makes a big difference. THe 1DXII is 1530gm vs A9 at 630gm

    As for the crop factor, I could of course use my A7R2 and crop the middle out, will still give me better results than the 7D2 with its noisy sensor, will also still get more Mpx out of it. Only problem is the poor AF and slow frame rate (relatively speaking).

    In terms of resolution and commercial quality, it does not matter to me at all since I am strictly speaking an amateur, have never made a penny from my photography, and at least for now do not intend to. So if my images can make it to my office/home walls, I am quite content. I have a beautiful pano from my 40D of the wildebeest crossing in Kenya that is 8 ft wide and hangs behind my desk.

    That's the other thing one can do to make up for lack of resolution to some extent, stitch images, although I admit would not be applicable in an action situation.

    There is always going to be some trade-off. For me, the A9 checks a lot of boxes though.
    I agree and I've taken my A7/A7R/A7RII throughout Europe and Africa. As you know many smaller regional carriers that are necessary to use to get to remote areas have a 32kg luggage weight limit without having to pay extra. These cameras work great for travel when you don't want to compromise on IQ, have to haul your own bags along with luggage (I usually pack a body or two and a wide, normal, telephoto option if needed, and power reserves), or want to have the most flexible camera option available.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    There must be something wrong with me: not being in the market for a camera like the A9, I don't compulsively watch and analyze Sony's "marketing."

    This thread is an example of where we've come, from a friendly group of internet friends, to a site that's often little better than LuLa.

    If you don't like Sony (or other brand) products, how about limiting your griping to a dozen or so posts and then moving on to something else?
    +1



    Only one remark, it's probably true for both sides

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    +1



    Only one remark, it's probably true for both sides
    Nah... can't be true
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Another sports related video using the Sony A99II and the Sony 300/2.8 with 1.4x converter. Interesting to see results the possible with the combo. I think the A9 might help move some A-mount glass and it's possible that those getting into Sony could choose to use the A99II for the backup body. There are still some gaps in the FE mount that the A mount can fill today.

    https://youtu.be/YqZWuygcTlQ
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    The A9 is being marketed as a sports camera for professionals. I think Sony is aiming at the 2020 Olympics in a big way, they are bound to release some big tele lenses soon.

    However, wildlife photography in low-light situations in Africa is not much different from sports photography and if I may, sometimes harder. The animals could spring into action suddenly and the light is often dismal, before sunrise or after sunset. There are obstacles between you and the animal who behaves completely unpredictably, running or leaping in random fashion, birds are even harder. Which is why critical focus lock, high frame rate, and excellent low-light capability of the sensor are very important. The weight becomes an issue after you've held the camera for hours on a bean bag, lifting it repeatedly and then putting it down again. No tripods in the vehicles, so a lot of the actual shooting is done hand-held. For me that becomes tiresome very quickly.

    So the only thing that is uncertain about the A9 as far as I am concerned is the AF capability. There is no way to find out without trying it out myself and I have just placed an order for mine a few minutes ago. It would be months before field reports from people come out and even then, who do you trust? I am traveling to Namibia in two months, hopefully will be able to get it by then.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Not just another review - this one telly a lot of important background information ....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQnj4Pt8F6k

    Puts the A9 very nicely into context with Nikon and Canon!
    Saw the video. It was long. He could have said all that in ten minutes, but since he kept repeating the advantages of the amazing new back button focus, just like on a real DSLR and on most of my Panasonics, and the sensational new control wheel on the top left, which I think I've seen before somewhere also. Might be on a Panasonic, or was it a Nikon or Pentax maybe? The A7 video button that was perfect a couple of years ago (yes, I mentioned that on this forum then and I got some replies ) was now terrible and has been moved to a better place on the A9. Then there was the shutter speed and frames per second that is even on par with the E-M1 II. Sensational that too.

    Yes, it's a nice camera, but he talked about it as if Sony just invented all that stuff.

    Now I'll make you all happy by going to bed. Goodnight
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 21st April 2017 at 11:03.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Sweet Sony dreams!

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Saw the video. It was long. He could have said all that in ten minutes
    Well nobody is complaining you needed 20+ posts to explain the camera is not for you because it's not weather sealed and lacks the proper long lenses. Seems getting long winded is caused by the excitement, both for the likes and the dislikes of this camera

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Saw the video. It was long. He could have said all that in ten minutes, but since he kept repeating the advantages of the amazing new back button focus, just like on a real DSLR and on most of my Panasonics, and the sensational new control wheel on the top left, which I think I've seen before somewhere also. Might be on a Panasonic, or was it a Nikon or Pentax maybe? The A7 video button that was perfect a couple of years ago (yes, I mentioned that on this forum then and I got some replies ) was now terrible and has been moved to a better place on the A9. Then there was the shutter speed and frames per second that is even on par with the E-M1 II. Sensational that too.

    Yes, it's a nice camera, but he talked about it as if Sony just invented all that stuff. He also kept switching between calling the viewfinder 3.6 million dots and 4K. 3.6 million dots is not 4K, never was and never will be. Or maybe I have too much dirt in my ears. Maybe he said "for you?". No, it isn't for me either

    Now I'll make you all happy by going to bed. Goodnight
    I was happy with the video record button on the side and out of my way. I hated it on the NEX-5 and nothing made me happier than when Sony released the firmware update to completely disable it. I know many use the video features but I can count on one hand how often they've been intentionally used by me.

    People have been able to back button focus for as long as I could remember on Sony cameras but I'm sure he highlighted concerns and questions that he probably receives from colleagues that some others may have. I thought the video was well thought out, his views were objective, he stated the merits of the A9 without a need to "trash" other brands that have served him well, and it's coming from a voice (paid or otherwise) of firsthand experience. The additional controls were likely in response to what some are comfortable with. I have all of those controls set to a quick menu item and takes all of a few seconds to change if I need to. A direct control is fine but it's not needed for me personally. Yes he misspoke about the EVF but you knew what he meant by saying "4K" so it's splitting hairs. Also the image quality from a Micro 4/3 just isn't the same as a full frame just as a full frame isn't the same as a 645 format camera... it's just not no matter how much you try to compare them. It's not to say Micro 4/3 is bad because it's not but the E-M1mk2 just isn't in the same class IQ wise. Hence why many still run a Fuill Frame system alongside it.

    Whats to complain about other than contrary opinion to alternative facts?
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    The video is useless. I turned it off after 45s. Sony is wasting money on him.

    That guy got corrected by one of the viewers.

    "There are no moving parts".

    Right.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Thanks, interesting read.

    What I conclude from this one it's not so much the lens IS that determines 5 or 3 axis stabilization, but that it has to fall back to 3 axis for lenses that do not report the focal distance to the camera, because for correcting the pitch/yaw axis you need this information.
    Well, no. AFAIK you need for

    • roll: no extra information
    • pitch and yaw: focal length
    • for X and Y: focal length and focus distance. For infinity this correction goes to 0. Most important for macro shots.

    BTW, there is no tilting of the sensor, only X- and Y-translations of it, in addition to what ever else the lens does.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The video is useless. I turned it off after 45s. Sony is wasting money on him.

    That guy got corrected by one of the viewers.

    "There are no moving parts".

    Right.
    Is it at all possible that the preproduction camera (#454) he tested only had electronic shutter or the menu to select mechanical shutter was disabled and he was reporting on the conditions that were true for him?

    Not being an apologist but just saying that they weren't provided documentation as stated.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Is it at all possible that the preproduction camera (#454) he tested only had electronic shutter or the menu to select mechanical shutter was disabled and he was reporting on the conditions that were true for him?

    Not being an apologist but just saying that they weren't provided documentation as stated.


    How many moving parts are there in the A9?

    Answer: 3*

    (1. LCD, 2. Shutter, 3. Sensor)

    The most delicate part of the camera, the sensor, it shakes!

    *4 If the diopter adjustment is also considered.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    How many moving parts are there in the A9?

    Answer: 3*

    (1. LCD, 2. Shutter, 3. Sensor)

    The most delicate part of the camera, the sensor, it shakes!

    *4 If the diopter adjustment is also considered.
    True but I believe he was thinking more along the lines of mechanical shutter and mirror transports which are commonly replaced items for sports shooters.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    No, Tre. You need not have to be apologistic.

    He was not thinking. Check out the viewer comments in that video.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    https://youtu.be/_ZXFI-eIXk8

    AF-C mode



    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The video is useless. I turned it off after 45s. Sony is wasting money on him.

    That guy got corrected by one of the viewers.

    "There are no moving parts".

    Right.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Why are people so worried about moving parts? The only parts that have failed for me with digital cameras are electronics (Fuji S5, Panasonic GH1), rotating controls (Fuji S3, Nikon D2Xs) and cracked bodies (Panasonic GH1 and Nikon D80). The A9 owns 5 rotating controls in addition to 2 command wheels and a joy stick. Those are all moving parts in addition to the LCD, shutter and sensor, 10 moving parts plus diopter control and push buttons. In addition, there's probably more electronics than in any other camera. Cameras fail sometimes. The A9 will too.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Does this make sense ?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Bart ...
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    That looks like a grip I have seen. It was made by Canon for its range finder camera. It was too expensive for me to buy (collector item).

    It does make sense. I hope some one makes similar ones for all of Sony's E mount cams.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Does this make sense ?


    I pre-ordered the battery grip.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That looks like a grip I have seen. It was made by Canon for its range finder camera. It was too expensive for me to buy (collector item).

    It does make sense. I hope some one makes similar ones for all of Sony's E mount cams.
    It's mentioned it should fit the A7II-series too (a7 II, a7R II, & a7S II).
    Bart ...

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Thanks, Bart. Especially for mentioning what the video says. No patience to watch the over excited unboxing/intro videos.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    So after absorbing a bit more information on the A9, I will say that this camera should excite Medium Format users as this could be the technological baseline that the next generation of Medium Format cameras will possibly be built upon. We could see a fundamental change to where Medium Format could be realistically used for general photography and no longer being confined to studio and controlled lighting in the very near future.

    More reason to skip the first round of mirrorless Medium Format and see what comes with a bit of maturation. All of them will possibly have full time Phase detect autofocus over a large portion of the sensor and electronic shutters to get around the limitations of not having a focal plane shutter. We can also expect Medium Format 4K with faster sensor readout. Exciting times for those looking to the future of the camera industry.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    I know a few ot the sony artisans one I shot with many times Don told me the af is better then the 1dx mk11 and yes he has shot bith cameras

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by dseelig View Post
    I know a few ot the sony artisans one I shot with many times Don told me the af is better then the 1dx mk11 and yes he has shot bith cameras
    That is what I am looking for. I guess I can do a search but any links to an official review yet? That really is the ONLY thing holding me back from selling my Canon stuff now. Typically I would lock on to the eye of the animal as it is coming towards me or simply moving around randomly. I want the camera to keep that eye in focus, shifting the AF spot as the animal moves or other objects come in front. Difficult for most cameras to do this, have never tried it on my A7R2. It should also be extremely easy to manually select a particular AF point without going into multiple menus or taking your eye off the viewfinder.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Does this make sense ?
    Being someone with spatula hands, having an attachment like this would be essential I think. Would let you get a normal grip on the camera but without over-bulking it with a battery grip. Some people who had early handling of this camera already report their fingers bumping into some of the bigger lenses, which is the result of trying to bunch up all your phalanges into a small area.

    Honestly the A9 could've been a bigger camera overall, if you're going to give it a number increase over your regular camera line, then there's no reason to stick to the A7 design too much.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    I am like the many who likes a modular approach with keeping the body size/heft to the minimum.

    If one wants bulk they can add this or any 3rd party grips or the battery grip, etc

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    So after absorbing a bit more information on the A9, I will say that this camera should excite Medium Format users as this could be the technological baseline that the next generation of Medium Format cameras will possibly be built upon. We could see a fundamental change to where Medium Format could be realistically used for general photography and no longer being confined to studio and controlled lighting in the very near future.
    Since when was medium format confined to studio and controlled lighting, and even if they were, why would this technology change that?

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Since when was medium format confined to studio and controlled lighting, and even if they were, why would this technology change that?
    I have a big studio...





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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Since when was medium format confined to studio and controlled lighting, and even if they were, why would this technology change that?
    If I have to spell it all out for you then you should probably do more reading and then think about what I was saying.

    Most use MF in controlled lighting environments and studios due to size and bulk. There also the noise limitation of old CCD sensors and this technology can truly make MF cameras more usuable in a wider range of applications.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    If I have to spell it all out for you then you should probably do more reading and then think about what I was saying.

    Most use MF in controlled lighting environments and studios due to size and bulk. There also the noise limitation of old CCD sensors and this technology can truly make MF cameras more usuable in a wider range of applications.
    To start with, Sony CMOS medium format sensors have been available for a couple of years already.
    Secondly, even with film, medium format cameras have been used outdoor in all kinds of lighting since the beginning of medium format. Remember the Rolleiflex? Hasselblad 500? Fuji's Texas Leica? Mamiya 7?
    Thirdly, there are two lightweight medium format mirrorless cameras already on the market, both with Sony sensors, and they are apparently already popular.

    Will this sensor technology be an improvement for medium format cameras? Obviously. It offers faster readout and probably even less noise, DR etc. at high ISO. Will it revolutionise medium format photography? Hardly. It's evolution, a natural development. It happens with all kinds of technology.

    My GH3 from 2012 had silent shutter, with some limitations. It is after all 5 years ago. All my current Panasonic cameras, including the tiny GM5, have it of course. I'm sure the silent shutter of the A9 is better. It should be. It's newer and much more expensive. Fine for golf tournaments and whatnot. That's evolution too. But rolling shutter is hardly a problem in churches and temples, so I never thought about it as a problem. Now I understand how wrong I was.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 24th April 2017 at 05:41.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post

    More reason to skip the first round of mirrorless Medium Format and see what comes with a bit of maturation. All of them will possibly have full time Phase detect autofocus over a large portion of the sensor and electronic shutters to get around the limitations of not having a focal plane shutter. We can also expect Medium Format 4K with faster sensor readout. Exciting times for those looking to the future of the camera industry.

    The Sony roadmap for sensors basically convinced me of that. Skipping the first gen GFX.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    My GH3 from 2012 had silent shutter, with some limitations. It is after all 5 years ago. All my current Panasonic cameras, including the tiny GM5, have it of course.
    With 10 bit read outs.

    Can you understand the differences in outputs?
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I have a big studio...




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    If it works without flaws, you are one lucky guy indeed!

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    With 10 bit read outs.

    Can you understand the differences in outputs?
    Yes, I understand that there has been some sensor development this year as any other year. Again, it's natural. Sony spends a lot of money on R&D.

    I was one of those who many years ago pointed out that mirrorless cameras were problematic for some kinds of sports photography due to sensor lag, blackouts and the slide show instead of live view. I based my views on experience and testing with several mirrorless cameras, including the A7 which used motor sports photos as a part of the marketing. I still have the brochure somewhere. Sony and an assortment of Sony users claimed at that time that there was no problem. The problem has since been documented by several photographers and reviewers. Now, when Sony has solved it, it's suddenly a revolution and game changer, while the old claims are forgotten. There are good reasons why I'm skeptical to marketing claims by Sony. Before I believe anything, I want to see it tried by photographers who are not paid by Sony, the same way I would from any other camera make.

    Most camera makers play this game to a certain extent, but Sony has a certain way with big words.

    Edit:... and the A7's noisy shutter wasn't a problem, or so I was told. Now of course, the silent shutter is a game changer, except again that I've been using silent shutters for 5 years. Without 10 bits. That has worried me a lot.

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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    some details https://youtu.be/Ztcf_6sp-Kg

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    That is what I am looking for. I guess I can do a search but any links to an official review yet? That really is the ONLY thing holding me back from selling my Canon stuff now. Typically I would lock on to the eye of the animal as it is coming towards me or simply moving around randomly. I want the camera to keep that eye in focus, shifting the AF spot as the animal moves or other objects come in front. Difficult for most cameras to do this, have never tried it on my A7R2. It should also be extremely easy to manually select a particular AF point without going into multiple menus or taking your eye off the viewfinder.
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    Re: Sony's new camera A9

    Let's steer the conversation back to full frame...

    I had a chance to play with the a9 at the launch in NYC and found it to be a remarkable camera. The one caveat being that I have not been able to view any files yet, but from a technology and operational perspective it ticks almost all my boxes.

    The good
    1. More physical controls
    2. Incredibly responsive handling
    3. 24mp is a sweet spot for my personal needs
    4. Improved battery
    5. AF has reached a new level of performance, unseen previously on mirrorless. I haven't used the 1DX or D5 so I can't compare but I also can't imagine needing much else in terms of speed, accuracy and tracking capability.
    6. Improved bright, large EVF with very natural color - better than SL

    The unknown
    1. Is there an AA filter? Sony has been silent, my guess is yes but I want the answer to be no.
    2. Weather sealing. I've used my a7RII uncovered in the steady cold Iceland rain with zero ill effects and I understand the a9 improves on the sealing so not really concerned, but it would be nice if Sony would convey the camera's weather sealing capability with more clarity.


    The a9 is so much more than a sports camera, it is a low limits camera. The camera is the closest thing to a frictionless shooting experience in the digital world. Abundant physical knobs, dials and buttons provide quick access to the key controls that effect the direct shooting experience while the stacked sensor and Bionz processor bring speed and responsiveness to the image processing. This is what many of us have been waiting for, that marriage of traditional control with the performance of a high speed image processing engine in a smaller mirrorless FF body. This is not a sports camera, it is an everything camera.

    While the 20fps with no blackout is impressive, I think it is the AF tracking that is going to have the most impact on composition and capture. Today I regularly use lock-on flexible point to track my subjects, even in low light scenarios and while it works well (maybe 70% success), I know the system limitations and work around them. With the a9, my short time with the camera tells me that Sony has dramatically improved the system and I'm now closer to 90+% effectiveness using AF tracking. Most impressive is the tracking of subjects moving towards the camera - this was a weak point in the previous system. It's amusing to me that Sony succumbed to demands for the addition of a joystick when the AF tracking makes it nearly obsolete.

    The only question for many will be the price. $4500 is a lot of bananas. Let's remember though, that the a7RII was not a cheap camera either and you could argue that it was the model that propelled Sony popularity and success during this last product cycle. Still, I would love to see the AF speed, battery and physical controls soon make their way to a more affordable lower end model - a7III.

    Chad
    Last edited by Show Performance; 24th April 2017 at 06:38.
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