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It's that time of the year again

scho

scho

Well-known member
Pradeep said:
Thanks Carl, this is very interesting. However, PhotoAcute is no longer for sale, a new version is planned from what I read on their website. The current one is quite dated - no profile for newer cameras from Sony or their lenses. I wonder how this technique would compare with the super-resolution process through Photoshop with stacked layers and median filter - which BTW also removes moving objects unless there are too many of them so you do not see the subject behind clearly on any frame.

There is yet another technique being developed which can enhance a single image - hard to plan and shoot multiple all the time, plus this allows older photographs to be 'improved'.

http://webdav.tuebingen.mpg.de/pixel/enhancenet/

I guess this is why the Japanese government issued a warning to its citizens - do not have your picture taken with your hands up in the air - somebody could clone your fingerprints!
Click to expand...
Thanks Pradeep. I tried using Photoshop CC, but with only 16 gb ram it can't handle auto align of a stack of 10 96 mp images without freezing up. I could align the images before increasing resolution 200%, but not very good results.

Edit: I tried again using smaller files from my A6000M and it worked fine , but still slow in alignment stage. Sequence in Photoshop CC was to first import the ARW files into a stack, convert to grayscale, re-size stack files by 200%, auto align (this is the very slow step), convert to smart object, enable Median stack option, and finally export tiff file.

Example (50%):

 
Last edited:
ggibson

ggibson

Well-known member
Interestingly enough, some Sony cameras can actually do "super-resolution"/image averaging in-camera and spit out a single combined raw file by using the playmemories app, Smooth Reflection. It will combine up to 256 frames! An easy way to blow through your mechanical shutter for sure. Unfortunately, the A9 and A7rIII don't support the app. It's a neat tool to use on my A7rII, especially for lenses that wouldn't otherwise take filters. Some older discussion here:

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/57519-smooth-reflection-app.html
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Graham, What smooth reflections (output is still 42mp, isn’t it?) has to do with pixel shift merge high resolution or the one Carl talks about?
 
P

Pradeep

Member
Carl, yes, this technique is very heavy on RAM and processing power. Obviously you are not going to do it for every scene you shoot. However it would be useful in a situation where you know you will need to crop into an image to remove on object - say a car or something - and still have the resolution left for a large print.

I find I am losing pixels in correcting alignment, removing unwanted things on the side and so on even in static landscape scenes. Sometimes I realize a slightly different composition is preferable or a completely different orientation of the main subject, i.e. converting a landscape shot to portrait mode or vice-versa. That is where having the ability to create a super resolution file would be very helpful.
 
P

Pradeep

Member
Vivek said:
Graham, What smooth reflections (output is still 42mp, isn’t it?) has to do with pixel shift merge high resolution or the one Carl talks about?
Click to expand...
Vivek, I may be wrong, but the app does not seem to increase resolution at all, simply averages out the exposure to create the smooth water look. Pixel-shift is an entirely different animal.
 
ggibson

ggibson

Well-known member
Well, potentially there should be some resolution improvement using image averaging according to this article calling the technique "Super Resolution".

https://petapixel.com/2015/02/21/a-...eating-superresolution-photos-with-photoshop/

From what I know that is basically what Smooth Reflection does in-camera. Yes, the output is still 42MP. I haven't done any A/B tests myself. It's not really a huge difference to me and 42MP is more than enough for my use. Smooth Reflection can be used with some movement in the scene as long as your single exposure is long enough (maybe >1 sec) and you don't end up with those strobing blurs like in Petapixel's article. Practially, for me this app is most useful as a variable ND filter with some small side effects of improving noise and resolution slightly. Pixel-shift is different, with a better resolution increase, but potentially worse artifacts from any movement at all.
 
D

DLP

Active member
From the figure showed by Sony explaining the pixel shift function, I think it is not the same as the ones offered by Pentax and Olympus, which use the in body steady mechanism to produce super resolution files. Dpreview has released an article about the a7r3 pixel shift function used in a practical environment (https://www.dpreview.com/news/5645755619/sony-a7r-iii-pixel-shift-lifts-a-veil-off-your-landscapes), and the file size only increased 100% to about 80mb, not as significantly as the ones from the other two aforementioned competitors.

Therefore I suspect that Sony did not choose the same path as the others. The file is not down sized from a super resolution file, which is futile in my opinion if it is done in camera. From Sony's demonstration, my interpretation would be the resolution is kept the same, 42 mp, and the body moves the sensor to collect the color information 4 times for the same spot (2 times for green, one for red and one for blue), given the structure of the Bayer filter. Then the color information is processed and combined into a 42 mp file. I suspect it is enabled by the greatly increased buffer size and computational performance.

If my interpretation is correct, then this pixel shift offered by Sony is quite unique. It offers better microcontrast and color fidelity and considerably reduces Moire without increasing the file size as significantly as the super resolution , leading to a smaller burden for the computer and file storage.
 
ggibson

ggibson

Well-known member
No, Sony is doing basically the same thing as other pixel shift methods. Pentax's K1 implementation does what Sony does here and shifts 4 times to correct for the CFA on the sensor and get full color info at each pixel. Neither of these cameras up-res the original sensor output.

Olympus and Panasonic have a more sophisticated pixel shift that lets them output a larger file. They shift the sensor 8 times, 4 for each of 2 positions. The second position is sampling at a 1/2 pixel width to increase the horizontal and vertical resolution. DPReview has a good explanation here:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m5-ii/4
 
D

DLP

Active member
ggibson said:
No, Sony is doing basically the same thing as other pixel shift methods. Pentax's K1 implementation does what Sony does here and shifts 4 times to correct for the CFA on the sensor and get full color info at each pixel. Neither of these cameras up-res the original sensor output.

Olympus and Panasonic have a more sophisticated pixel shift that lets them output a larger file. They shift the sensor 8 times, 4 for each of 2 positions. The second position is sampling at a 1/2 pixel width to increase the horizontal and vertical resolution. DPReview has a good explanation here:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m5-ii/4
Click to expand...
Thanks, ggibson! I have done some further research and it is exactly like what you said. Sony and Pentax perform four color information collections but don't generate any super resolution file in the process of pixel shift, and both Panasonic and Olympus deliver super resolution files with eight color information collections.

Now I finally get it right! Thank again, ggibson!
 
scho

scho

Well-known member
Knorp said:
The Remote viewer (Mac) works with my A7rII ... :grin:
Click to expand...
Yes, also works with my A7II, but not the A7r. Only the A7rIII owners will have access to pixel shift feature, unless they provide a firmware upgrade for version II cameras.
 
k-hawinkler

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Knorp said:
According to JK : Sony a7R III is still a star eater | dpreview

Luckily I've no need for shooting stars nor for the a7R III ... :grin:
Click to expand...
Oh well Bart, c'est la vie.
The A7r.3 doesn't get me too exited either.
I'll skip it and wait for the A9r - whenever that is.
My A9 is simply too much fun to use.
It's easy to get spoiled by its superior performance,
except for the lack of those extra pixels.
But when I need those my A7r and A7r.2 do just fine. :thumbs:

As would my D800E that I hardly use these days
The one Nikon item that interests me though is the AF-S Nikkor 105/1.4E lens.
There is nothing comparable in the Sony native lenses firmament.
I would love to use that Nikkor Lens on my A9 with the Commlite AF adapter.
One even gets Eye-AF and IBIS that way.
I hope Commlite succeeds soon to improve their latest firmware and make it more stable.
 
The Ute

The Ute

Well-known member
k-hawinkler said:
Oh well Bart, c'est la vie.
The A7r.3 doesn't get me too exited either.
I'll skip it and wait for the A9r - whenever that is.
My A9 is simply too much fun to use.
It's easy to get spoiled by its superior performance,
except for the lack of those extra pixels.
But when I need those my A7r and A7r.2 do just fine. :thumbs:

As would my D800E that I hardly use these days
The one Nikon item that interests me though is the AF-S Nikkor 105/1.4E lens.
There is nothing comparable in the Sony native lenses firmament.
I would love to use that Nikkor Lens on my A9 with the Commlite AF adapter.
One even gets Eye-AF and IBIS that way.
I hope Commlite succeeds soon to improve their latest firmware and make it more stable.
Click to expand...
I'm w you.
For Landscape work there is no need to upgrade to the model III.
In fact, if you are looking for a screaming bargain the A7RII is one right now.
A brand new one can be had for 2K.
Opposed to around 3500 for a new RIII.
Is the RIII 1500 dollars better ?
Kinda doubt that.
 
Knorp

Knorp

Well-known member
k-hawinkler said:
Oh well Bart, c'est la vie.
The A7r.3 doesn't get me too exited either.
I'll skip it and wait for the A9r - whenever that is.
My A9 is simply too much fun to use.
It's easy to get spoiled by its superior performance,
except for the lack of those extra pixels.
But when I need those my A7r and A7r.2 do just fine. :thumbs:

As would my D800E that I hardly use these days
The one Nikon item that interests me though is the AF-S Nikkor 105/1.4E lens.
There is nothing comparable in the Sony native lenses firmament.
I would love to use that Nikkor Lens on my A9 with the Commlite AF adapter.
One even gets Eye-AF and IBIS that way.
I hope Commlite succeeds soon to improve their latest firmware and make it more stable.
Click to expand...
Oh yes, an a9R would do nicely, but imagine the price ... :bugeyes: :banghead: :shocked:
I'll bet you could buy an M10 instead ... :angel:
 
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