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Dedicated Monochrome Cameras

V

Vivek

Guest
As some of you may have noticed, I have been using a monochrome converted NEX-5N for a few years now. At around the same time of having that converted by Dan at maxmax, I was also fortunate enough to buy and use a Leica MM.

The full frame MM led to the neglect of the NEX-5N but personal reasons made me go back to the lighter 5N. As the MM’s sensor corroded and needed replacement, the NEX-5N was in use all the time. At the time of the free sensor replacement, Leica sent me an “upgrade” possibility from the MM to their 24MP CMOS monochrome camera. Of course I had to give my old MM and hand over a huge amount of cash for this previlege. So, that pushed to to go for my monochrome converted A7rII. Daniel at monochromeimaging did a superb job of the conversion.

The conversion entailed getting rid of the UV/IR filter stack, the cover glass, and getting rid of the Bayer color filter array. I had a clear fused silica (1mm) thick put in as a sensor cover.

As there is quite a bit of interest in these cameras and also as we happen to have two members here- Gary and Carl having their own converted monochrome cameras, i thought I will start a separate thread for those wanting more information.

With the advent of a great RAW processor in monochrome2dng, the results have been quite pleasing.

I will add more information as and when I find time. Yes, I do have 3 monochrome cameras at the moment (the Leica with a brand new sensor is up for sale).

Hope, Carl and Gary will also chime in with their experience.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Yes, I do have 3 monochrome cameras at the moment.
Awesome! :thumbs:

I would love to see how the A7RII mono converted compares to the MM. I have the M246 and love it and have shot with the Phase One IQ3 Achromatic+ which whilst was great, it wasn't $45k+ great enough.

I wonder if monochromeimaging could convert a Fuji GFX to mono? (I've been seriously considering picking one up for dedicated mono / IR and either going full spectrum or bayer array stripped.) I assume that monochromeimaging do a chemical etch on the sensor?
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Graham, Last week I bought a ZM Distagon 35/1.4 from a local store. I checked it with my MM (for RF coupling accuracy) and the A7rII(m). The difference was immediate and obvious. Sony wins hands down.

Give Daniel a call. May be he will consider it. He lives in your town. Swell guy to deal with. I do not know the details of how he does it but I do know he has built specific custom rigs for his job that are accurate down to nano meters.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Wow - you are right. What are the chances of Daniel literally living in the same city! I'll seek him out when I'm home next week.
 

Mathieu18

New member
Thanks for helping lead me down the rabbit hole Vivek! A monochrome Sony has been on my wish list for some time but both prices and available funds are finally lining up. I’d love to hear thoughts on which bodies to use, specific to the sensor and output. I know Daniel recommends the RII, but that’s probably more than I have for camera + conversion. I’m otherwise considering the ergonomics of the A7II or the sensor or the A7R. Currently just shooting the A7R normally to see if I can live with it. The lack of EFCS and shutter delay is annoying but I’m adapting.

I’m very familiar with the ergonomics, used most of the A7 series except S variants now. Otherwise any thoughts are appreciated about the results from these cameras.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Hi Matt, welcome!

Carl has an A7r(m) and Gary has an A7(m). Also, Carl has an A6000 monochrome.

I really have not pushed my A7rII(m) in low light. I have to go >ISO 128000 to see beautiful fine grain. The silent shutter (within its limits) is also just awesome.
I like the tonality from the 42mp sensor output.
 

Mathieu18

New member
Thanks Vivek, I did talk to Carl briefly abouthis A7R(m), I'll have to reach out to Gary and get his thoughts off the 24MP sensor.

Looking forward to joining the club.

Hi Matt, welcome!

Carl has an A7r(m) and Gary has an A7(m). Also, Carl has an A6000 monochrome.

I really have not pushed my A7rII(m) in low light. I have to go >ISO 128000 to see beautiful fine grain. The silent shutter (within its limits) is also just awesome.
I like the tonality from the 42mp sensor output.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
One major downside of a mono converted, recent camera (the ones with "4D" focus) is the very slow auto focus. Phase detection is gone and the extra speed in "4D" focus that uses color information is gone as well.

So, no chance of using the Tech pro adapter (Leica M).

In A7rII(m), I have set the AF mode to "AF A". This allows for slow contrast detect auto focus. The Zony 35/2.8 is my most used lens (also the fastest focusing). Zony 55/1.8 is slow to focus. The Sony 85/1.8 seems to work OK. The kit zoom works OK in good light.
 

Mathieu18

New member
I could be wrong, but I believe you can disable PDAF in the menu somewhere, which might let you use other modes with contrast detect as well.

Also, although I have not shot a monochrome full spectrum yet, I’ve been shooting full spectrum‘s for a little bit and the best lens by a good margin that I have found is the Super Takumar 35 mm F3.5. Definitely recommend it to check out especially for its cost.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I can not find a way to turn PDAF off. I can only see a setting where PDAF is not displayed (which is not the same as turning it off).

I have a few dozen lenses in 35mm FL that I can use on Sony cams! :facesmack::eek:

The latest addition a ZM Distagon 35/1.4 is just superb! This is an untinkered lens with no add ons. There is no need to tinker with it or add anything to it.

FWIW, I also have a Minox 35/2.8 in Sony mount (body cap lens). Also, a surprise.

The Zony 35/2.8 is the most versatile on monochrome (on my NEX-5Nm as well).

For visible light captures, I use a 595nm cut drop in STC filter. For IR, an 850nm, 720 and 600nm drop in filters.

I also do a lot of UV captures (band pass filter on the lens).

While UV sensitivity is about 1.5 stops higher with the monochrome camera (compared to a Bayer full spectrum), IR sensitivity suffers from the loss of microlenses and the Bayer dyes. It is a few stops less than the visible.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
A recently processed (through monochrome2dng) handheld capture from February.

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
Sony A7rII(m), Zony 35/2.8, f/5.6, 595nm cut filter, Leiden

100% crop (wind mill)

leiden-crop by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

No sharpening applied.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
ZM Distagon 35/1.4 @ f/1.4.

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Sony A7rII(m), ZM Distagon 35/1.4, UV-IR cut filter, The Hague

From the inscriptions on the jacket button, I know it is a Dolce and Gabbana! Such level of detail is not possible from my 18mp Leica MM.
 

scho

Well-known member
A few shots taken with an old Contax-N 50/1.4 Zeiss Planar in a Fringer CN-SE AF adapter on the a7R(m). It focuses OK, but slow because of the lack of PDAF. This series just shows IR filtration effects.

Kolari Hot mirror



No filter (note the slight IR effect)



Kolari 590 nm



Hoya 720 nm

 

Mathieu18

New member
Does the STC 595 cut have a significant effect on AF range or performance of native lenses? I know PDAF is lost so it has an effect too, but someone mentioned Astronomik filters affecting minimum focus distance.

I can not find a way to turn PDAF off. I can only see a setting where PDAF is not displayed (which is not the same as turning it off).

I have a few dozen lenses in 35mm FL that I can use on Sony cams! :facesmack::eek:

The latest addition a ZM Distagon 35/1.4 is just superb! This is an untinkered lens with no add ons. There is no need to tinker with it or add anything to it.

FWIW, I also have a Minox 35/2.8 in Sony mount (body cap lens). Also, a surprise.

The Zony 35/2.8 is the most versatile on monochrome (on my NEX-5Nm as well).

For visible light captures, I use a 595nm cut drop in STC filter. For IR, an 850nm, 720 and 600nm drop in filters.

I also do a lot of UV captures (band pass filter on the lens).

While UV sensitivity is about 1.5 stops higher with the monochrome camera (compared to a Bayer full spectrum), IR sensitivity suffers from the loss of microlenses and the Bayer dyes. It is a few stops less than the visible.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
I can not find a way to turn PDAF off. I can only see a setting where PDAF is not displayed (which is not the same as turning it off).
On the A7 and A7ii PDAF only works when you're using AF-C, when using AF-S they're off.
As far as I can tell there is no way to turn them off when using AF-C.

Don't know if it's the same for the A7Rii
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Good question! :)

Yes, with the cut filter, the AF is better. Contrast improves. So, the AF is also better.

Does the STC 595 cut have a significant effect on AF range or performance of native lenses? I know PDAF is lost so it has an effect too, but someone mentioned Astronomik filters affecting minimum focus distance.
On the PDAF, again, only the “AFA” works in my A7rII(m). I am happy that atleast this works.
 

scho

Well-known member
Some cut flowers and a bushy tail gray squirrel. a7R(m) Zeiss Batis 85/1.8 Sonnar. Astronomic OWB CCD Typ 3 sensor filter.



 
V

Vivek

Guest
Some reflected Ultraviolet examples with the monochrome camera. My A7rII(m) has a 1mm fused silica cover glass on the sensor and is sensitive to deep UV to near IR. A Baader U 2" bandpass filter (320-390nm pass) was on the lens. Camera was set to auto ISO with a minimum shutter of 1/250s (no need for tripod).

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr.

(The street map next to the scooter is normally visible in visible light capture. The cover plastic is opaque in UV. Hence the darkness as is the case with the head light of the Vespa)

There was a bit of sunshine. So, sunscreens (varying strengths and applications) were also out.

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Yellow Narcis with a white swan in the background

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Swan in a canal

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

About 1.5 to 2 stop gain in UV by removing the Bayer dyes and the microlenses, this alone, is worth the trouble for me. :)
 

scho

Well-known member
Steamboat Landing on Cayuga Inlet. Ice is finally gone, but still cold and snowing on and off the last few days. a7R(m) with Astronomik hot mirror sensor filter and Zeiss Batis 85/1.8 Sonnar with B+W 040 Orange contrast filter.

 
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V

Vivek

Guest
Carl, I am quite unsure about using colored filters, especially orange/red ones with modern lenses. As is, they seem a bit too contrasty to me. If I put the supplied (usually oversized) hood on the lens, that itself seems to be enough?

I am trying with older lenses though, especially the ones with built in filters.

Keep them coming. All very useful information. :)
 
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