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Thread: Future Sony FE Bodies

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    Future Sony FE Bodies

    Iím curious if Iím alone in thinking thereís room for or a desire for Sony to make a body thatís larger than the current A7/A9 specifically for those that use the larger GM, G, Sony Zeiss, or Batis lenses. Iím not saying it needs to be or should be the size of the A99 but something the size of the Fuji XH1 (maybe 10-20% larger) I think would be ideal. I donít even think it has to affect the A7... it could be strictly for the next generation A9 (or variants) especially with the 400/2.8 coming soon and the 500/4 and 600/4 being rumored.

    Thoughts on this or does everyone only want the smaller bodies?
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Personally, I have found the 'full-frame' sony designs to be unattractive and have held off from them. for the last couple of years I have used a a6000 which is a APS-C design that has some charm and grace, in my opinion. Were sony to make a FF version of the a6xxx range, which is not physically impossible according to my ruler anyway, then I would stat to scrape pennies together with some keeness!

    It seems to be an unwritten rule that; as cameras get more 'serious' they need to become more imposing and the best way of doing that is to add pointless complexity and physical bulk. If one is going to use large, ie long focus, lenses then perhaps a DSLR is a better solution anyway. What is missing (for me anyway) is a range of small quality lenses capable of FF coverage and suitable for mirrorless FF....and as we know from the film era, these need NOT be as large as modern makers would like us to believe. With the great increase of iso available many users are NOT chasing huge max apertures and fractional Dof, contrary to what many would have us believe. Relatively few photographers are covering sports/birds/low flying aircraft etc....whereas large numbers of serious users in many genres need a low weight, high resolution mirrorless kit, which still fails to make an appearance.

    With the imminent launch of Nikon mirrorless models we see one of the great camera makers now in the field. This is going to change the activities of the big electrical conglomerates such as Sony that have so far dominated mirrorless cameras apart, obviously,from fuji. So, perhaps the camera that I have waited 10 years for is just around the corner!

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    Personally, I have found the 'full-frame' sony designs to be unattractive and have held off from them. for the last couple of years I have used a a6000 which is a APS-C design that has some charm and grace, in my opinion. Were sony to make a FF version of the a6xxx range, which is not physically impossible according to my ruler anyway, then I would stat to scrape pennies together with some keeness!

    It seems to be an unwritten rule that; as cameras get more 'serious' they need to become more imposing and the best way of doing that is to add pointless complexity and physical bulk. If one is going to use large, ie long focus, lenses then perhaps a DSLR is a better solution anyway. What is missing (for me anyway) is a range of small quality lenses capable of FF coverage and suitable for mirrorless FF....and as we know from the film era, these need NOT be as large as modern makers would like us to believe. With the great increase of iso available many users are NOT chasing huge max apertures and fractional Dof, contrary to what many would have us believe. Relatively few photographers are covering sports/birds/low flying aircraft etc....whereas large numbers of serious users in many genres need a low weight, high resolution mirrorless kit, which still fails to make an appearance.

    With the imminent launch of Nikon mirrorless models we see one of the great camera makers now in the field. This is going to change the activities of the big electrical conglomerates such as Sony that have so far dominated mirrorless cameras apart, obviously,from fuji. So, perhaps the camera that I have waited 10 years for is just around the corner!
    i can understand and respect that viewpoint. For me large fast lenses are more about shooting in lower light conditions where flash isnít always allowed. So the options for me would be to buy large aperture lenses or getting a A7S type body. Yes some of the other cameras have useable high ISO I still prefer to shoot at the lowest possible ISO. Shallow DOF is a matter of aperture AND distance so often times I think that part is lost on people (not necessarily you) that say people donít need large aperture lenses.

    Now ive heard there is a demand for small light primes (and I get that) but I do believe there are some out there with the 28, 35, 50, 55, and 85. Clearly there are still gaps but o also think in the film days (and I still shoot my Minolta from time to time) most of those small lenses didnít have AF. Those that did usually had slow AF but thatís another point. If you donít mind manual focus thereís the Voigtlander, Chinese, and Loxia lenses out there.

    I still standby Fuji has the best compromise in a crop body system though I can easily make a case for Micro 4/3 as well.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    For me the size is secondary to the specs. Of course, a compact mirrorless set up is always preferred.

    I hope Nikon, etc will give Sony a run for their money, make them come up with better quality cameras.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Iím curious if Iím alone in thinking thereís room for or a desire for Sony to make a body thatís larger than the current A7/A9 specifically for those that use the larger GM, G, Sony Zeiss, or Batis lenses. Iím not saying it needs to be or should be the size of the A99 but something the size of the Fuji XH1 (maybe 10-20% larger) I think would be ideal. I donít even think it has to affect the A7... it could be strictly for the next generation A9 (or variants) especially with the 400/2.8 coming soon and the 500/4 and 600/4 being rumored.

    Thoughts on this or does everyone only want the smaller bodies?
    I think the A7/A9 bodies on itself are too small to hold comfortably.
    Even with the smallest and lightest of lenses it's only so-so.
    Of course there is the battery-grip, but then it becomes rather bulky and therefore I hardly use mine.
    I'm still pretty happy with the grip-extension.
    So getting back to your question: I'd say a slightly higher body could be just perfect (for me).
    Bart ...

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    +1 on the smaller A6xxx rangefinder style of body. I also find the mk II and III versions of the Sony FE bodies to be quite heavy, and would prefer a lighter camera. I mostly stick with small primes on the system.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Having moved completely from the big Canon DSLR/lenses to Sony, I am firmly in the 'small camera system' camp. Given that I am also a small person with small hands, it helps to have a smaller unit.

    I know many people have difficulty with the form factor of the Sony esp if they have big hands, but hey, the world is moving on, more and more Asians are buying these cameras and it is the time of the small folk now

    Seriously though, I agree completely, technology should allow the manufacture of smaller, lighter long lenses (yeah, an oxymoron, that) - the Canon 400 DO MkII was pretty good, but did not win the popularity stakes. I am hearing good things about the Nikon PF lenses and I am sure Sony can come up with something similar. A zoom lens in the 200-600 range would be fantastic, does not have to be f4 either. I know Tamron makes one in a similar config, but my own experience with it was less than satisfactory. You want to use it maximum at the longest end and that's where it fell short.

    I also agree that sometimes you want that separation from the subject and the background and nothing beats a wider aperture for that, especially if the animal is at a certain distance. Just cannot do it with an f5.6. So the need for a heavy long lens continues. I have come to the realization in life that good things cost money and all other things being equal, good images require good equipment.

    I too would love to see the FF Sony bodies become even smaller and personally I don't have issues with big lenses on small bodies, as long as it balances well.

    I love my Rx1r2 but of course it has a fixed prime lens.

    I suspect the future A7x and A9x bodies will not be any bigger, rather the same size but may have more features built in, whether we want them or not.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    It is good to keep in mind that smaller bodies can be bulked up with add ons while larger bodies are CaNikon territory. Besides, those who tarvel know the importance of smaller, lighter systems vs the bulky, heavy ones.

    I also doubt that the Zony 50/1.4 is flying off the shelf compared to the Zony 55/1.8.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    For me the A7 and A7ii are fine. Even with my big hands I can hold them comfortably (and steady).

    But as others here I like holding my A6000 even better, so a FF camera within such a smaller shell would for me even be preferred.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    A7r, A7r.2, and A9 with battery grip size- and weight-wise are a good fit for me.
    I would prefer though if the battery grip were part of the camera body, as in Nikon’s D3.
    I am shooting with my left eye, so I like the EVF in the middle of the camera body.
    Third party rubber eye cups eliminate interfering light from the side.
    I wish such eye cups were available for Olympus’ E-M1.2.

    judt for fun: A9R - Rendering from SAR - FM Forums

    Pue fantasie - all made up.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 25th July 2018 at 19:19.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    A7r, A7r.2, and A9 with battery grip size- and weight-wise are a good fit for me.
    I would prefer though if the battery grip were part of the camera body, as in Nikon’s D3.
    I am shooting with my left eye, so I like the EVF in the middle of the camera body.
    Third party rubber eye cups eliminate interfering light from the side.
    I wish such eye cups were available for Olympus’ E-M1.2.

    judt for fun: A9R - Rendering from SAR - FM Forums

    Pue fantasie - all made up.
    I find that I generally shoot with the grip attached almost all the time which is what originally got me thinking about if there is a market or room for a larger or more “pro” style body for those of us that use the larger lenses. Again it doesn’t have to be as large as a pro body DSLR but I feel the slightly larger body of the Fuji XH1 is about the perfect compromise of not too big but not too small ergonomically.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 26th July 2018 at 03:35.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I find that I generally shoot with the grip attached almost all the time which is what originally got me thinking aboutbif there is a market or room for a larger or more ďproĒ style body for those of us that use the larger lenses. Again it doesnít have to be as large as a pro body DSLR but I feel the slightly larger body of the Fuji XH1 is about the perfect compromise of not too big but not too small ergonomically.
    The XH1 body is perhaps better, but the G9 is IMV the best compromise.
    Well, let's say it's almost perfect ...
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I find that I generally shoot with the grip attached almost all the time which is what originally got me thinking aboutbif there is a market or room for a larger or more ďproĒ style body for those of us that use the larger lenses. Again it doesnít have to be as large as a pro body DSLR but I feel the slightly larger body of the Fuji XH1 is about the perfect compromise of not too big but not too small ergonomically.
    It's amazing how personal this all is. I bought my A7 2nd hand together with a grip. After some initial experimenting the grip came off and has never been back on. So for me the base body is fine and I'm glad grips can be added by people who like it.

    What would be the advantages of a larger fixed grip body vs. one with a detachable grip, since I don't use one I'm probably overlooking something?
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    I'm in the smaller body camp.

    The smaller body is less offensive. At least it's my experience with an a7RII + Voigtlšnder 40/1.2. Especially in low light situations, you can walk through the people and document easily a scenery. The camera looks more like a nice hipster gadget and surprisingly they accept pictures from it more than from professional equipment or a cell phone.
    If a bigger grip is needed I'll attach the grip extension Knorp referred to. It has no weight and adds the necessary centimetres of grip to make it comfortable enough to carry heavy lenses through a day.
    It's not as enjoyable as holding a cafť latte in a glass but I prefer the less offensive look over some more comfort. Just to clarify I have glove size 11 sometimes 12 (12 is the biggest size you can get).

    On the other hand, why not produce cameras in two parts. One is the heart (sensor, electronics, battery) and the other is the body (EVF, knob positions, LCD, body size). The heart will be attached like a computer to a docking station.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Seb's post touches on several important matters to this;

    The first Sony mirrorless was the NEX 3 (&5)...When I first used that camera as a walkaround and holiday camera I was greatly surprised that nobody even noticed me using it and that the images were every bit as good as from my Pentax DSLR's. perhaps it helped that it happened to be in a grey colour, I don't know, but the tilting screen was a bonus too. it seems that DSLR makers have dragged their feet in providing tilting or articulated screens even tho' it would add to facility greatly in many situations...

    Seb's last point about a more modular approach seems to me to make great sense, and highlights that the makers have rather turned their faces to the wall on design....They understand 'the black plastic DSLR' and that's what they would like us to like as well!

    Back in the 35mm film era there was a very clever SLR camera 'system' called Exacta. Every part of the camera set up could be modified according to the photographic task required with detachable viewfinders and screens and a large catalogue of accessories to enable all types of 'difficult' picture making..... This system was used world-wide by forensic, military, scientific and research groups, not to mention a great army of amateurs. One wonders what they use now....and why there is no digital equivalent, or even a modern evolvement into something really clever and useful. I can't help thinking that the black DSLR is really only intended by canikon for use at sports and pop events....

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Knorp,...are those camera pics to a common scale?....the M/43 sensor looks rather large by comparison...according to my 'rithmatik' M43 sensor is a quarter of the size of FF sensor almost exactly but the G9 image looks much larger than perhaps it should.....I might be wrong 'tho!

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    The question about the body size is almost like the US politics nowadays. Changing the topic every hour to take the focus away from the key issues.

    What happened to lossless RAW and lossless compressed RAW?

    What happened to removing the star eater protocol?

    Here is where Nikon will dent Sony’s sales and I will applaud them for it!

    It is the image quality and not the ergos!
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The question about the body size is almost like the US politics nowadays. Changing the topic every hour to take the focus away from the key issues.

    What happened to lossless RAW and lossless compressed RAW?

    What happened to removing the star eater protocol?

    Here is where Nikon will dent Sonyís sales and I will applaud them for it!

    It is the image quality and not the ergos!
    Vivek, what do you mean "changing the topic" ...
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    Knorp,...are those camera pics to a common scale?....the M/43 sensor looks rather large by comparison...according to my 'rithmatik' M43 sensor is a quarter of the size of FF sensor almost exactly but the G9 image looks much larger than perhaps it should.....I might be wrong 'tho!
    Oh BugleOne, you've got to blame "camerasize.com" for any scale mismatches !
    Now, I think it's all down to perception, but to my eye (and to my measurements ...), the Ķ43 sensor shown is exactly half the size of the shown 'FF' sensor.
    Bart ...

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Does everyone mean the 'battery grip' (where the grip houses an extra battery) when they mean a 'body grip'? I have never used that with any of my cameras. Bought one for my Canon 7D2 and took it off after one attempt. It made the camera unwieldy and with a big lens it did not sit well on the tripod - there was some play even if the grip was screwed on tight.

    For me, the current form of the a7x/a9 works very well, as I can actually carry and hold it with my fingers hooked on the side of the battery section. Granted this is never a good way to carry a camera with a heavy lens like the 100-400 since the weight of the lens puts a lot of strain on the mount, but for very short periods it is doable. If it is a smaller zoom/prime, it is better than my DSLR used to be since the overall weight on my fingers is much less. With the bigger lenses I always use the lens foot to hold it or to attach the BR strap.

    Vivek, I see your point but I feel Sony has been holding itself since there was no real competition, now the gloves will be off and I expect them to be even more aggressive in coming up with new tech.

    FWIW, the 'star-eater' problem, though real for many people did not bother me. On my trip to Namibia last year I did some astrophotography for the first time in my life, with the A7r2. The images were very satisfying - for me. There is no discernible loss of stars in the sky in my Milky Way shots - at least it doesn't look that way. I agree they could address this issue in future FW upgrades or future sensor designs. I am sure somebody at Sony is looking into it.

    All said and done, competition is always healthy and for us end users it means better products - at hopefully a better price.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    It's amazing how personal this all is. I bought my A7 2nd hand together with a grip. After some initial experimenting the grip came off and has never been back on. So for me the base body is fine and I'm glad grips can be added by people who like it.

    What would be the advantages of a larger fixed grip body vs. one with a detachable grip, since I don't use one I'm probably overlooking something?
    I agree itís highly subjective and I started off on the original

    Well I want to be clear... Iím not suggesting elimination of the smaller bodies at all but rather the addition of a larger one towards the top of the range specifically for the people that use the larger zooms and primes. I agree thereís room for a A5 or A6 in a ďRangefinder styleĒ body especially for those that want the smaller/lighter benefits and those that adapt old manual focus lenses.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The question about the body size is almost like the US politics nowadays. Changing the topic every hour to take the focus away from the key issues.

    What happened to lossless RAW and lossless compressed RAW?

    What happened to removing the star eater protocol?

    Here is where Nikon will dent Sonyís sales and I will applaud them for it!

    It is the image quality and not the ergos!
    Iím not sure itís forgotten but I can say itís a issue that doesnít actually affect me personally. I do hope they correct these things (that happen to be issues for some) if for no other reason than to quell the potential for negative PR.

    Now would say to Sony (if they cared or bothered to ask led me) the best forward in the future is to allow customization of the camera through a mobile/desktop app where users could have some pre-defined presets or add remove features through it. Some will never do video and may want to hide those things. Some may not want JPEG and they could hide thousands options. Some may want custom in-camera crop options and those could be added through the app. Maybe this would complicate things further but we are in an increasingly computer/phone dependent world so I really only believe those that are technologically adverse would complain. In either sense the camera could be made as simple or advanced as people wanted it to be.

    As for the current state of US politics... well... thatís a rough one and I equate it more to a dumpster fire near a sewage facility than civil conversation about camera systems.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Does everyone mean the 'battery grip' (where the grip houses an extra battery) when they mean a 'body grip'? I have never used that with any of my cameras. Bought one for my Canon 7D2 and took it off after one attempt. It made the camera unwieldy and with a big lens it did not sit well on the tripod - there was some play even if the grip was screwed on tight.

    For me, the current form of the a7x/a9 works very well, as I can actually carry and hold it with my fingers hooked on the side of the battery section. Granted this is never a good way to carry a camera with a heavy lens like the 100-400 since the weight of the lens puts a lot of strain on the mount, but for very short periods it is doable. If it is a smaller zoom/prime, it is better than my DSLR used to be since the overall weight on my fingers is much less. With the bigger lenses I always use the lens foot to hold it or to attach the BR strap.

    Vivek, I see your point but I feel Sony has been holding itself since there was no real competition, now the gloves will be off and I expect them to be even more aggressive in coming up with new tech.

    FWIW, the 'star-eater' problem, though real for many people did not bother me. On my trip to Namibia last year I did some astrophotography for the first time in my life, with the A7r2. The images were very satisfying - for me. There is no discernible loss of stars in the sky in my Milky Way shots - at least it doesn't look that way. I agree they could address this issue in future FW upgrades or future sensor designs. I am sure somebody at Sony is looking into it.

    All said and done, competition is always healthy and for us end users it means better products - at hopefully a better price.
    I was referring to the battery grip but some were referring to the extended grip as well.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I do hope they correct these things (that happen to be issues for some) if for no other reason than to quell the potential for negative PR.
    I do hope for real reasons they do not come up with truck sized monstrosities.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I agree itís highly subjective and I started off on the original

    Well I want to be clear... Iím not suggesting elimination of the smaller bodies at all but rather the addition of a larger one towards the top of the range specifically for the people that use the larger zooms and primes. I agree thereís room for a A5 or A6 in a ďRangefinder styleĒ body especially for those that want the smaller/lighter benefits and those that adapt old manual focus lenses.
    Tre, I never suggested you wanted to eliminate them, I just pointed out that I like the form they are producing today.

    But still nobody who wants bigger bodies to be available answered my other question, what's the advantage of a bigger body vs. a smaller body with a custom battery grip screwed on underneath?

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Professional CaNikon bodies are huge and heavy. So, atleast, appearance wise Sony can compete with them?

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Tre, I never suggested you wanted to eliminate them, I just pointed out that I like the form they are producing today.

    But still nobody who wants bigger bodies to be available answered my other question, what's the advantage of a bigger body vs. a smaller body with a custom battery grip screwed on underneath?
    I know you didn’t suggest I did. I was clarifying in general so I apologize for not being more clear.

    A slightly larger body (again thinking of the ergonomics of the XH1 and maybe the G9 too) provides a more natural fit for using the larger lenses without the grip. While a grip adds versatility in a sense it doesn’t tackle every issue regarding a desire for slightly larger dimensions in height and width. The biggest thing is the width of the camera and the height for me when using larger lenses and how tight it can be to fit your hand in the natural position. Many. Hangs their grip to accommodate butnid prefer not to need to. I think somewhere between .5-.75 inches taller and wider would do the trick personally. I like the size of the A7 for day to day shooting if I wanted to throw my 55 on there (or any of the Batis lenses) to walk around with or if I were using a Loxia lens. For that the A7 is perfect. When using the Sony Zeiss I generally put the grip on. For the 70-200 or 100-400 I wouldn’t mind a bit more clearance between the lens and the handgrip.

    Personally I’m not suggesting that all of the cameras become 5D or D850 size but something comparable to the XH1, D750 or D500 (with the obvious shorter flange distance) wouldn’t be a terrible thing for the next generation A9 (or maybe the A9R or A9S in they come).
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 26th July 2018 at 07:20.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    The XH1 body is perhaps better, but the G9 is IMV the best compromise.
    Well, let's say it's almost perfect ...
    I havenít handled a G9 yet but Iíve always loved Panasonic Micro 4/3 from my past experiences. I still have my G1 which was my first Mirrorless camera. I havenít been able to find my charger after we moved last year due to ďputting it in a place where I wouldnít lose it.Ē
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    My take: Given the size of some of the native lenses, for mirrorless, I think Leica got it right in terms of body size. However, I think there is also room for a smaller body optimised for smaller Prime lenses.
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  30. #30
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Anyone remember the A3000?

    https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRO...ony-a3000A.HTM

    I hope Sony do!

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    I agree about Panasonic nailing the ergonomics on their cameras. The GH lineup was always super comfortable to me. I prefer a smaller camera for portability, but it's a trade-off that not everyone wants to make.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    The a3000 was a 'cheap' way to get a viewfinder on a NEX.......But it was a blatant attempt by Sony to offer a DSLR lookalike! When you held the a3000 in your hand you wondered why it was so huge and cumbersome when the NEX models were so small and neat......

    .....I can't see that a3000 was a marketing move which will ever be repeated.......consumers are not stupid!

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    You know... when I think about it... I havenít really heard any realistic rumors about what Sony is likely to present at Photokina or PPE this fall. I think we all assume the A7SIII is due soon but with Nikon and Canon soon to show their Mirrorless hands I wonder what Sony is up to and has been holding out on as of late.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    So in light of having the Nikon Z6/7 being announced officially, what are the things you hope to see on the next Sony bodies? I figured I’d return to putting my thoughts regarding Sony here to keep the peace.

    I for one would like to see these things personally:

    A7SIII/A9S:

    18-24mp LSI/BSI/Stacked sensor (with same or improved high ISO capability - 400ISO Base)
    OSPDAF with same A9 autofocus system
    6k/24 | 4k60 or 4K120 (UHD/DCI) | 2k240p and/or 1080p240
    10-bit (internal) | 12-bit (external) color space
    ProRES RAW
    Venice Color Science
    Data bit rates up to 500mbps
    Improved heat management
    Larger body (A9S)
    3.69md EVF (A7SIII)/ 5.6md EVF (A9S)
    Improved weather sealing (since they advertise it as a feature)
    Dual SD cards (A7SIII)/ Dual XQD cards (A9S)
    Price: $3k (A7SIII)/ $5k A9S

    A9R:

    56-72mp LSI/BSI/Stacked Sensor (with same or improved high ISO capability - 50ISO Base)
    Improved OSPDAF
    4k60 DCI/2k240
    10-bit Internal/External Color Space
    Data bitrates up to 200mbps
    5.6md EVF
    Larger and more weather sealed body
    Dual XQD Cards
    User definable crop modes (or just include 1:1, 3:2, 16:9, 4:5, 6:7, 2:1, and 8:3)
    Price: $5.5k

    Lenses I’d like to see at some point:

    200/4 G (can’t justify the cost of the $10k+ lenses)
    400/4 G (can’t justify the cost of the $10k+ lenses)
    200-600/5.6 G (something to directly compete with the Nikon 200-500/5.6)
    100/2 GM (just take the Contax Yashica formula and modernize it)
    135/1.8 GM (need an update to the legendary A-Mount lens)
    Updated 24-70/4 (though I guess the 24-105 actually solves this)
    21/2 G (Walk around ultrawide)
    24/2 G (Walk around wide)
    35/2 G (Walk around prime)
    50/2 G (cheaper alternative to the Sony Zeiss lenses)
    135/2.5 G (cheaper mid-telephoto option)
    20/4 Tilt-Shift
    Updated A-Mount adapters that allow all of the newer features.
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  35. #35
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    AFAIC, i have decided to buy the cameras (any) only at <60% list price.

    Even the first gen RX1 is working too well for me!
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    AFAIC, i have decided to buy the cameras (any) only at <60% list price.

    Even the first gen RX1 is working too well for me!
    LOL.

    Yeah I know you aren't interested mostly in jumping in first anymore and I can understand being that you were burned with some cameras in the past. I generally keep my cameras for awhile though and Iím still using 2 generation 1 bodies and one generation 2 one. Whenever I do upgrade itíll likely be for an A9 level model at this point (or A7SIII).
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Interestingly enough I guess the news outlets and reviewers/first impression media are finally starting to look at the ďfine printĒ of the Z6/7 now that the excitement of a new camera system has worn down somewhat.

    https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/niko...third-parties/

    I think it'll be a successful offering but mostly for existing Nikon owners - and that just may be enough to stop the ďbleedingĒ in the short term... unless people decide to jump all in on Mirrorless then in those cases there are other options.
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  38. #38
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    I think they spoke too soon in doing the +/-.

    There are some really useful features in the Z cams. Flickr free option is one. This mitigates banding.

    Sony can improve learning from them.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I think they spoke too soon in doing the +/-.

    There are some really useful features in the Z cams. Flickr free option is one. This mitigates banding.

    Sony can improve learning from them.
    I donít think the cameras are flicker free. They showed banding in some shots in videos.
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  40. #40
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Go towards the end (ďflicker reductionĒ)of this article:

    http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review

    Atleast, as far as stills, it seems to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I donít think the cameras are flicker free. They showed banding in some shots in videos.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Go towards the end (ďflicker reductionĒ)of this article:

    http://www.rossharvey.com/reviews/nikon-z7-review

    Atleast, as far as stills, it seems to work.
    Yeah I was listening to camera reviewers at the Nikon events the last two days that arenít Nikon Ambassadors without one single critical thing to say... to the point theyíre justifying why people shouldnít even want two XQD cards. Everything is ďperfect and betterĒ than anything else on the market at any price despite others stating itís a good camera with flaws. Also the idea that the f/1.8 are magically performing like f/1.4 without a larger sensor - yeah I donít trust his opinions at all... especially when thereís clearly vignetting at the edges of the frame in many pictures (even with the larger mount that lets in more light). He started off saying the right things though and he may be honest in how he feels about the camera but nothing he raves about isnít true of most other Mirrorless cameras.

    Now I will say the 35mm looks like a winner of a lens and the IQ of the camera is very good but Iíve seen two reviews from three different sources (with direct video evidence) stating how the AF is good but doesnít keep up with generation 3 Sonyís and are closer to the generation 2 Cameras.

    I donít doubt there are situations where it works but itís not 100% on any camera. There are times on the A9 and XH1 where flicker isnít an issue and there are times it is.

    Donít get me wrong - I wanted this camera to be better than it actually is because I wanted Nikon to ACTUALLY advance the market but this is exactly what I expected. Nikon people will declare itís the second coming of the lord and talk about how great all the ďredefinedĒ Mirrorless features are that Iíve (and others) been enjoying for the last 3-10 years with cameras from Sony, Fuji, Leica, and Micro 4/3
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    I think Nikon's mirrorless FF first try is a little disappointing but mainly because we have the A73 and A7R3.
    So, actually Nikon is only 18 months behind. They will catch up I think.

    Ed

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    I think Nikon's mirrorless FF first try is a little disappointing but mainly because we have the A73 and A7R3.
    So, actually Nikon is only 18 months behind. They will catch up I think.

    Ed

    Nah, the A9 plays in a different league.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    But we haven't seen yet Nikon response for this class. Neither for the S model.

    What a beast! I think the A9 will be impossible for Nikon to match at any given time of release. Sony owns the sensor.


    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Nah, the A9 plays in a different league.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Truthfully I’d also like to see Sony produce an inspired APS-C lens lineup as well and maybe even an A6 (in the same body type as the A7/A9) that’s like an APS-C A9 for $1500-2000 that goes head up with the Fuji, Nikon, and Canon cameras.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 25th August 2018 at 13:59.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Truthfully Iíd also like to see Sony produce an inspired APS-C lens lineup as well and maybe even an A6 (in the same body type as the A7/A9) thatís like an APS-C A9 for $1500-2000 that goes head up with theFuji, Nikon, and Canon cameras.
    Yup!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Well let's go back 5 years. Sony released two FF-mirrorless cameras and both were full of flaws and could not catch up with their DSLR counterparts. They had awful battery life, bad AF, one card slot and it took seconds just to turn the camera on.

    We can blame Nikon being late. But it's never too late and those two cameras are a good start. Give them a chance and even though they are not the best choice for an FF-MILC at the moment I would recommend them to others as an alternative.
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Right seb, full of flaws but I'm still using one today (picked up cheaply second hand 16 month ago) and for me it's still a hell of a camera that produces results I'm very happy with.

    Same with the new Nikon's, they might have flaws and be behind camera X, Y or Z, but they're probably still awesome picture making machines. We'll see how they hold up when the public at large gets them in their hands, but I have very few doubts about that.
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  50. #50
    Vivek
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    Re: Future Sony FE Bodies

    Quote Originally Posted by seb View Post
    Give them a chance and even though they are not the best choice for an FF-MILC at the moment I would recommend them to others as an alternative.
    Why?

    One can always wait couple of more years for them get everything right..

    An alternative would be A7rII (new or used). Lot cheaper and better.

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