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Sony Colors

Lawrence B

New member
The comparison is not very sophisticated. It's like looking after the hairstyle of 100-m runners and saying who will win the race. Although the shape may have an influence on the time none of the runners had cut their hair because of that.

Two things:

OOC-JPGs:
Each camera set a certain style into the JPGs. The reason behind is quite simple. If the jpg would be colour-accurate no one would ever use it and it would be only usable with perfect light conditions. Therefore they have to process it in a certain way that buyers see as pleasing. Currently, it's a contrasty and high vibrancy look with a small green hue range. Brights getting pushed but also compressed on the top. This may change over time. For example the OOC-colour complainings about the II-series (greenish tone) went into the a9/a7III/a7RIII.

Accuracy:
There is a generalised understanding of a dE value greater than 1 the difference is getting visible. Below it's not. If we look at the values on these comparisons it's obvious none of the brands had accuracy in mind when they programmed the algorithms for the OOC-JPGs.

The first question here is what would be possible?
I spent hours and money in the last years to get an answer to that question: Let's assume my setup for profiling my camera (a7RII) was perfect then my best approach to get an "accurate" profile was with an average dE of 0.8 and a max of 3.6. This with a combination of two targets with very different (and many) colour patches. Here is a "similar to the article"-visualisation of one of the used targets (the point in the center is the reference, the rest of the patch shows how my profile render it). It's the accurate profile with a slight push of the darks. I'm too lazy to look after the fully correct one atm.

View attachment 136741

How practicable is an "accurate" profile?
Well, I never use it. The reason is behind the RAW data. Light (colour, dynamic range, haze, ...), hardware (esp. sensor), software (in camera but also raw-processor) are in a play all together. There are some limitations due to the used hard- and software but the biggest issue here is that the result looks not how my imagination sees it when I press the shutter. And creating my look with the adjustments of the raw-processor is just a lot of work. Well at least with an "accurate" profile. It's the reason why I started to tweak the profile in a certain way. And yes in general, my changes goes to more contrast and pushed brights that are compressed on top. Especially the compressing of the brights is a very important step because differences of dynamic range and saturated colors needs very different adjustments. It's much easier if you just compress them. It's something you can see in the profiles of LR and C1 as well (unless you use a "linear scientific" curve with a "accurate" profile in C1).
Don't ask me about the dE of my tweaked profiles. I don't care because the "accurate" profile may be a good start for creating a profile but the adjustments give the profile it's useability and a certain style. Like it is with the OOC-JPGs...
So true, so true "The reason is behind the RAW data. Light (colour, dynamic range, haze, ...), hardware (esp. sensor[i'll include lenses here too]), software (in camera but also raw-processor) are in a play all together."

I actually appreciated the referenced post. Any little bit of information to help educate the vast majority of forum photogpraphers understand even the minimal basics that are involved in colour reproduction and final output is a good thing. Based upon the many opinions I read among so many forum photographers, most have no idea the intentional and unintentional ways colour is manipulated long before the image data is uploaded to an app or even displayed on some device. How many times have I read comments stating this camera produces better color than that camera or "C1" produces better color than LR. I just shake my head.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Interesting take... and one I largely agree with in realistic practical ideology. Above all I really liked that he worked with 3 models of different skin tone and texture and really showed the effect it can have on perception of a cameras capability to produce the image you’re after in final output.

https://youtu.be/yMjb7sMiAsg
 

seb

Member
Interesting take... and one I largely agree with in realistic practical ideology. Above all I really liked that he worked with 3 models of different skin tone and texture and really showed the effect it can have on perception of a cameras capability to produce the image you’re after in final output.

https://youtu.be/yMjb7sMiAsg
Thanks for sharing. There is some interesting information in it and it looks like there are a few other videos in his channel I will have a watch.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thanks for sharing. There is some interesting information in it and it looks like there are a few other videos in his channel I will have a watch.
I started watching his channel a few months back (ironically when I was looking to possibly switch from Sony to Fuji) he has a lot of good videos on how workflow and methods. I like channels like his though a lot of people lump all YouTube creators into their own group of people... often as a dig on them to prove their own elitism... but I digress there is a wealth of information (and disinformation) available there.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Just came across this rant/review:

https://kenrockwell.com/sony/rx1.htm

A quote from above:

I'm an artist. When I speak of color rendition, I'm speaking of how well the camera interprets reality, not laboratory accuracy. Lab accuracy isn't relevant to me — I just need the photos to look great! right out of the camera.
:)
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Just came across this rant/review:

https://kenrockwell.com/sony/rx1.htm

A quote from above:



:)
Ken Rockwell... forever the “beacon of reality.” That might have been the most contradictory thing I’ve read today but the day is still young. “He’s a colorist that wants colors done for him straight out of camera” none of the colorist I know care about much more than neutrality and files easy to work with to produce their own style... but to each their own.
 
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