Sony 600mm f4 GM First Impressions

[k-hawinkler]

I have the camera and lens now and presently struggling through the menu system. Difficult to understand how obviously gifted engineers can produce such a disjointed menu system, but I will master it and report my impressions soon
Stanley

Good luck Stanley. It’s just a matter of getting used to. :thumbup:

Gifted engineers have no problem with this. :facesmack:
But mere mortals benefit from a better user interface. :grin:

 

[MGrayson]

I have the camera and lens now and presently struggling through the menu system. Difficult to understand how obviously gifted engineers can produce such a disjointed menu system, but I will master it and report my impressions soon
Stanley

Gifted engineers specialize in disjointed menu systems. A good UI is REALLY hard to make. The biggest problem is that there is no measurement to be optimized.

True story: A billion years ago (1989), I was asked by the developers of IBM's symbolic mathematics system, Axiom, to try it out. I was then a frequent user of MACSYMA, Mathematica, and Maple. The system had some really nice features (for that time). You could manipulate infinite series, use Roman Numeral coefficients (Exp[x] = 1 + x + x^II/II + x^III/VI + x^IV/XXIV +...) and other fun things. In normal use, pressing the Shift-C meant "compute". But if you were in a different level of the program, Shift-C would reboot. These guys had put thousands of serious Engineer hours into this thing, but :wtf:?

M

 

[k-hawinkler]

Well M, a gifted engineer wouldn't have had a problem with that. :loco: :banghead:

 

[MGrayson]

Well M, a gifted engineer wouldn't have had a problem with that. :loco: :banghead:

It is true. I am not a gifted, or any other kind, of engineer.

 

[Shashin]

Gifted engineers specialize in disjointed menu systems. A good UI is REALLY hard to make. The biggest problem is that there is no measurement to be optimized.

True story: A billion years ago (1989), I was asked by the developers of IBM's symbolic mathematics system, Axiom, to try it out. I was then a frequent user of MACSYMA, Mathematica, and Maple. The system had some really nice features (for that time). You could manipulate infinite series, use Roman Numeral coefficients (Exp[x] = 1 + x + x^II/II + x^III/VI + x^IV/XXIV +...) and other fun things. In normal use, pressing the Shift-C meant "compute". But if you were in a different level of the program, Shift-C would reboot. These guys had put thousands of serious Engineer hours into this thing, but :wtf:?

M

I would say that was a brilliant piece of engineering--you still remember after all these years! That is known as transference.

When I was working for Minolta, we were writing the instructions for a new function. The screen had a series of messages for the user to take them through the process. There were about five steps. Step two had you connect a USB cable. The problem is that connection would turn off the monitor--it was hard wired and nothing the firmware could change. The firmware engineers were unaware until we pointed it out--actually, we were confused because the screen went blank and thought there was a firmware problem. System are complex and information is always limited to each subgroup.

Speaking of Sony menus, I was involved in some of the wording and design with Minolta cameras that would carry over to Sony products. My greatest victory was removing the "Dating" option from the menu as it might have caused user confusion. Language is complex.

 

[Shashin]

It is true. I am not a gifted, or any other kind, of engineer.

But you are a mathematician! They are always my favorite movie characters!!

Good Will Hunting
Hidden Figures
The Man Who Knew Infinity

 

[k-hawinkler]

Well you all probably know the joke about an engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician trying to figure out 3*7.

Easy for the engineer, with slide rule he gets 21.01, so 21.
The physicist takes a bit longer, series expansion gets 20.99, so 21.
They don't hear anything for awhile from the mathematician.
He finally declares, gentlemen there exists a solution! :thumbup:
:grin: :grin: :grin:

Sorry if I offended anyone with this inside joke. :facesmack:

 

[PeterA]

But you are a mathematician! They are always my favorite movie characters!!

Good Will Hunting
Hidden Figures
The Man Who Knew Infinity

and

'A Beautiful Mind'..

 

[iiiNelson]

Well you all probably know the joke about an engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician trying to figure out 3*7.

Easy for the engineer, with slide rule he gets 21.01, so 21.
The physicist takes a bit longer, series expansion gets 20.99, so 21.
They don't hear anything for awhile from the mathematician.
He finally declares, gentlemen there exists a solution! :thumbup:
:grin: :grin: :grin:

Sorry if I offended anyone with this inside joke. :facesmack:

Sometimes I used to get accused of “crushing the souls” of the engineers when I would make comments like “the problem with engineers is that they are rarely operators.” Well this was in my Program Management and my Givernment Services life... probably was some truth to the soul crushing but it perplexed me that people would design systems based on requirement statements without end user feedback before the bulk work began.

Well as hurtful as it may have been for many, it’s true and what’s needed is probably a UX designer (and NOT an engineer) that sits with a variety of end users to discuss and design charts of various workflows. Personally I don’t find Sony menus nearly as bad as some make them - they’re just different and require learning new nomenclature and setting up the camera for the individual user. They’re generally designed with the professional hybrid user in mind and thus provide greater freedom to work how you want to work... though I understand this freedom adds a layer of depth to the setup. Many of the photo features simply don’t require much depth but the video features almost always do.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Well M and Tre,

Of course I agree with you on the importance of a well conceived of and executed UI. It took the genius and perseverance of Steve Jobs to actually lead an army of engineers to implement his vision successfully.

I am familiar with the UIs of cameras from Leica, Nikon, Olympus, Sony, and Fujifilm, in some cases multiple slightly different versions from the same maker. Often small changes in the haptics and menus significantly improve the user experience IMHO.

In case of Olympus it was for me an extra level of grouping of menu functions. In Sony’s case the addition of the My Menu. In both cases one also has to figure out how to switch between the primary and secondary menu system and their interaction starting from the current active selection.

My Sony IBIS cameras are setup with two things in mind:

* easy changes to IBIS for native and adapted lenses without having to scroll any menu system, requires setting up 3 buttons.

* easy switching between Eye-AF for humans and animals with the help of My Menu. Here I have also included, formatting cards, sensor cleaning, live view settings, etc.

Fuji has an interesting touch to their haptics as one can not only turn wheels but also toggle them by pushing in to switch functions.

Which one do I like best? Well the one I am most actively using with my muscle memory intact. :thumbup:

 

[doug]

My first impressions: much lighter than I expected, even hand-holdable in some circumstances. Excellent balance with the a7rIII. First pics at first light in the morning.

EDIT: it seems my backyard 'avian portrait studio' was built with a 400mm lens in mind

the blind's viewing port size and location assumes a lens with a smaller diameter and the perches are much too close for the 600's MFD, even with extension tubes. I'll have an opportunity to use the lens in the 'wild' later this week. Image quality and stabilization are great, and I expect I'll be best friends with the DMF switch.

 

[doug]

 

[doug]

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[stngoldberg]

Finally had an opportunity to try my new Sony a9 with the 200-600mm lens. The camera locked on focus with flying birds and held the focus wherever the bird flew. There are several options on this camera for following a bird or any other object in focus; I chose the zone option, but as I become more familiar with the camera I may use one of the flexible spot options.
Does this camera lock on and hold focus better than my Nikon 850 with the 200-500mm lens attached?
The comparison is a close call with the edge going to the Sony for perhaps more rapid acquisition.
The 20 frames/second with the electronic shutter is amazing, but it’s almost too much and obviously a card gets filled rather Quickly!
The camera with the additional battery pack attached with the lens is a bit heavier than the Nikon D850 with the 200-500mm lens attached.
I estimate the Sony rig I used today weighs in the neighborhood of 7 pounds, but the weight is well balanced so I was able to hold the camera comfortably while shooting long bursts.
I wish the camera produced more than 23 mpx, but with the 20 frames per second, I guess the trade off is acceptable. The resolution for this type of image is acceptable IMHO.
Today was overcast and it occasionally rained here in Florida.
I painted in the white sky on one of the images because I wanted to demonstrate the focus on a head shot and disliked the white sky that was captured. The images if I recall are mostly full frame
All of these images were taken at 600mm.
Stanley

 

[doug]

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[stngoldberg]

Stanley

 

[stngoldberg]

Becoming more proficient using the Sony A9 together with the 200-600mm lens
Stanley

 

[doug]

Becoming more proficient using the Sony A9 together with the 200-600mm lens
Stanley

Bird identification: Great Blue Heron, Tricolored heron, Pied-billed Grebe.

 

[doug]

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all: a7rIII, 600/4 GM

 

[doug]

I've been using the lens for a month now.

My impressions? Keeper. keeper. keeper. keeper. I intend to get every last penny's worth out of this lens.

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