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Thread: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

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    Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    I'm curious if anyone has made this switch? I've really enjoyed the Z7, but find the AF tracking good, but not great. I also like the idea of Sony's native 1.4 glass and two card slots. However, I've used the Nikon for many paid jobs and it's great. So why switch? Mostly, for the above two primary reasons...2 cards and native 1.4 glass. Although, the card issue seems remote, it's best to have and not need it. Right? Having the extra resolution probably won't make any difference other than perhaps a hardware upgrade, but the extensive lenses in the Sony line up are impressive.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Just FWIW: you can adapt the Sony E lenses to your Nikon Z for a measly $200 using the full electronic Techart adapter. A few good reviews on it out there too
    Jack
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Just FWIW: you can adapt the Sony E lenses to your Nikon Z for a measly $200 using the full electronic Techart adapter. A few good reviews on it out there too
    Thanks Jack. I've read about the Techart for FE to Z. That is a possibility. It would be hard to part with the Z because I've really bonded with it. Actually, aside from film cameras it's my most favorite. I really like base iso of 64 to really get the most of the dynamic range. Whereas, the Sony's base is at 100 iso. The Z7 really shines with adapted lenses with the wide flange. I might just stay with the Z and just do frequent on site backups (Gnarbox) for bigger jobs. I am looking for a Nikon 200mm f/2 IF ED AI-s for manual portraits.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    I have been a Nikon user for over 30 years along with having been a medium format adopter for the last 20 years.
    I acquired the Sony A7RIV along with the Sony A9 two months ago after reading some reviews from respected photographs along with watching several YouTube videos.
    Firstly the Sony A9 blows away my Nikon D850 with respect to fast focusing and continuous tracking while I am photographing flying birds.
    Secondly both of these Sony cameras produce images with more balanced exposure and color rendition than I have ever experienced with Nikon.
    Thirdly the Sony 200-600mm lens with the 1.4 extender is as sharp as the very good Nikon 200-500, but the Sony has obviously more reach and is much easier to zoom while shooting.
    A small quarter of a turn on the Sony lens move the focal length from 200-600mm in an instant while zooming the Nikon lens requires a lot more effort.
    Since acquiring the Sony equipment, I have not picked up the Nikon gear
    Stanley

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    I really can't comment about the 'Z' other than I wanted one but no more. I purchased a 7RM4 and just love it. It's not perfect but for what I use it for I don't think there is anything better.

    I also have a GFX and decided to see if there was any real difference in the files as, for sure, there are a lot of differences between the cameras. What I found was the same image shot with both cameras looks similar in its native dimensions but once push and shove comes into play there is a big difference. I processed both files in C1 and CR and finally the Fuji file in Irridient. Same amount of sharpening was applied although to be really fair the files are different enough that slightly different sharpening schemes should be used. I upsampled both files to 100MP using Giga AI and was really surprised how differently they reacted to upsampling.

    The Sony file held all of its fine detail while the Fuji file made really fine detail turn to blobs instead of keeping the intricate shape. This could just be an issue regarding Fuji files - it would be great to see how a X1D/II file holds up. If the Hassy fil also fall apart then it could be a sensor issue but I don't recall ever having any difficulty upsampling my 3100 to whatever I wanted.

    I am convinced that CR is the best developer for Sony and maybe even for the Fuji. C1 has lots of bells and whistles that I like but just doesn't give justice to the micro sharpness and micro contrast that CR does - and CR has most of the capabilities of C1 but not all.

    I can post some images if anyone is really interested but I found this to be very revealing.

    All of this said I have some wonderfully detailed 40 inch prints from my GFX - so pixel peeping is one thing and printing is another.

    I realize this doesn't address your OP but thought I would add it to the mix.....

    Victor

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Perhaps I need to get out more, but what is CR?
    I really want to use native glass as the adapters are usually the weak link if shooting in inclement weather. I've done many portraits shoots lately and just love the look of a 1.4 lens. Nikon's S lenses are good, but the the 85mm S just didn't excite me like the 105mm 1.4, albeit, with the FTZ adapter. I'd be interested in the Panasonic S1R , but I shoot with Profoto Air and currently they don't have an AirRemote for it just yet. The Sony lens lineup is pretty outstanding for native glass too. I'm not invested in Nikon glass at all, save for the 105mm f/2.5 and 50mm 1.6\8S which is incredible, so might just wait for Canon with the EOSR5. Even Canon beat out Nikon's native lenses with a 50mm and 85mm 1.2. I know Nikon's flange is the widest, but it would have made sense to get a few 1.4 or 1.2 lenses rather than the luxury 0.95, imo. From a purely aesthetic opinion, I'd love a round viewfinder!

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    IMHO, "same amount of sharpening" has no meaning between different models of camera and between different RAW converters. Each converter picks different default levels of sharpening and noise reduction for each camera (and each ISO). For instance, Fuji files are much noisier OOC in LR than they are in C1. If you play with noise and sharpening parameters, you can get them to look quite close.

    The experiment you want to do is to try to get the best result from each camera's file and see how good that is, and how hard it is to achieve.

    My 2p,

    Matt
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post

    The experiment you want to do is to try to get the best result from each camera's file and see how good that is,
    This ^^^
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    JD, a question: Have you handled the Sony A7r-iv? I ask because for me, while most reviews put the Sony well ahead, I just could not get my hands around the ergos --literally-- while the Z7 felt like an old friend the moment I picked it up. I realize that may or may not be a thing for most other shooters, but it is for me, so I felt it deserved a mention.
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    JD, a question: Have you handled the Sony A7r-iv? I ask because for me, while most reviews put the Sony well ahead, I just could not get my hands around the ergos --literally-- while the Z7 felt like an old friend the moment I picked it up. I realize that may or may not be a thing for most other shooters, but it is for me, so I felt it deserved a mention.
    Exactly! This is the elephant in the room of camera system comparisons - how does it feel in the hand? I - hated is too strong a word - but greatly disliked the feel and handling of every Fuji body, both X and G. Then I picked up a GFX100, and it felt balanced, as if my wrist were a gimbal. With everyone raving about the X-T3, I picked one up and hated it. But the discontinued X-H1, which is a bit larger with a deeper handgrip, felt great. So I now have the two Fuji cameras that feel good in my hand.

    The new FF cameras have incredible performance. Sadly, I just don't like the handling of either the Sony or the Nikon Z; both feel cramped. I *have* lenses for the L mount, but don't like either the Panasonic or Leica bodies that use them. There just isn't a FF camera besides the 1Dx or D5 that I like holding, and all my Canon lenses are over 10 years old and need upgrading.

    The point is that this is all personal. Fortunately, there are enough options which are good enough on paper, and pleasant enough in real life.

    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 6th February 2020 at 16:12.
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Perhaps I need to get out more, but what is CR?
    CR= Camera Raw.

    Victor
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    IMHO, "same amount of sharpening" has no meaning between different models of camera and between different RAW converters. Each converter picks different default levels of sharpening and noise reduction for each camera (and each ISO). For instance, Fuji files are much noisier OOC in LR than they are in C1. If you play with noise and sharpening parameters, you can get them to look quite close.

    The experiment you want to do is to try to get the best result from each camera's file and see how good that is, and how hard it is to achieve.

    My 2p,

    Matt
    I thought I eluded to this by mentioning that the files should be sharpened differently for best results.

    More than anything else I believe that the newest generation sensor used in the Sony is superior to both the GFX Sensor and the Z sensor which I believe is the same generation as the GFX. The Sony delivers a file that has a lot of room for manipulation..... much more than the GFX.

    Victor
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Fully agree with Jack, pick up the camera or rent it for a few days. Yes, there are subtle differences between lenses, sensors, colour response etc etc. but in the end if the camera doesn't feel right in the hand it's all a lost cause. I think if you don't like the hold of the camera all these other differences are unimportant. And like Matt said it's all very personal, Jack doesn't like the Sony, I don't like the Nikon and Matt dislikes both, and while this seems a contradiction it's my firm belief that all three of us are right
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    For the record, I’m not a Sony fan boy...I dislike the menu system..needlessly complicated IMHO...had to purchase an E book and watch several YouTube videos to setup the camera for wildlife and then reset for some street shooting...but the ability of the eye focus and the malleable files are a huge asset.
    Also not a huge fan of the electric viewfinder on the Sony A7RIV vs the Nikon D850.....but the files result into some amazing images and prints
    Hey let’s face it...Sony has completely taken over the photography business due to its sensor technology and its financial strength..no one is in a position to challenge their size and potential long term
    Stanley

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    JD, a question: Have you handled the Sony A7r-iv? I ask because for me, while most reviews put the Sony well ahead, I just could not get my hands around the ergos --literally-- while the Z7 felt like an old friend the moment I picked it up. I realize that may or may not be a thing for most other shooters, but it is for me, so I felt it deserved a mention.
    Jack, that's a great question and integral to the bonding experience. I have not demoed the Sony A7R4 yet, but agree that the Z7 is very well designed ergonomically for my style of shooting. However, I do shoot in portrait mode frequently and and am disappointed that the battery grip doesn't accommodate that at all in regards to controls. The build quality of the Z7 is pretty outstanding. Lens Rentals did a tear down of a Z7 and they found it to have the most weather sealing of any mirrorless camera, and that's important to me. I'm going to handle a Sony A7R4 soon, but again, the native lenses are a huge component to this original thought.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Exactly! This is the elephant in the room of camera system comparisons - how does it feel in the hand? I - hated is too strong a word - but greatly disliked the feel and handling of every Fuji body, both X and G. Then I picked up a GFX100, and it felt balanced, as if my wrist were a gimbal. With everyone raving about the X-T3, I picked one up and hated it. But the discontinued X-H1, which is a bit larger with a deeper handgrip, felt great. So I now have the two Fuji cameras that feel good in my hand.

    The new FF cameras have incredible performance. Sadly, I just don't like the handling of either the Sony or the Nikon Z; both feel cramped. I *have* lenses for the L mount, but don't like either the Panasonic or Leica bodies that use them. There just isn't a FF camera besides the 1Dx or D5 that I like holding, and all my Canon lenses are over 10 years old and need upgrading.

    The point is that this is all personal. Fortunately, there are enough options which are good enough on paper, and pleasant enough in real life.

    Matt
    These are valid points, but practical outweighs the personal for me at this time and the native lenses for Sony push me in that direction. Design wise, I think Sony and Nikon are very close.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    I think the best advice is to try the Sony out and see how it works for you. I tried the A7RIV out when it was released and wound up buying the S1R. The A7RIV is a much more practical and possibly a more capable camera in nearly every way for most people. I don’t love the ergonomics of it without a grip which using faster lenses. I will likely upgrade my Sony bodies once the A7IV is released but for my “personal camera” the S1R fit the bill for me. For professional work I trust the Sony cameras far more but part of that is familiarity and the other part of that is experience.
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think the best advice is to try the Sony out and see how it works for you. I tried the A7RIV out when it was released and wound up buying the S1R. The A7RIV is a much more practical and possibly a more capable camera in nearly every way for most people. I don’t love the ergonomics of it without a grip which using faster lenses. I will likely upgrade my Sony bodies once the A7IV is released but for my “personal camera” the S1R fit the bill for me. For professional work I trust the Sony cameras far more but part of that is familiarity and the other part of that is experience.
    Thanks iiiNelson, I always appreciate your input. I was all for the S1R, but I shoot with Profoto lighting gear and need the options that the AirRemote TTL offers for my shoots. I contacted Profoto and they did not have an AirRemote TTL for the Panasonic. The grip for the Nikon Z was another reason for the consideration to Sony because of the full control in portrait mode. Oddly, Nikon chose to just omit this and reaching for the shutter on the Z, you're basically not even holding the grip. The A74 might work too.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    JD,

    My advice is GO AHEAD AND GET THE SONY, AND SELL THE NIKON... Just tag me first on all your Nikon gear!


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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Thanks iiiNelson, I always appreciate your input. I was all for the S1R, but I shoot with Profoto lighting gear and need the options that the AirRemote TTL offers for my shoots. I contacted Profoto and they did not have an AirRemote TTL for the Panasonic. The grip for the Nikon Z was another reason for the consideration to Sony because of the full control in portrait mode. Oddly, Nikon chose to just omit this and reaching for the shutter on the Z, you're basically not even holding the grip. The A74 might work too.
    Not sure when or whom you talked to but the Panasonic is compatible with Profoto flashes.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Not sure when or whom you talked to but the Panasonic is compatible with Profoto flashes.

    https://profoto.com/uk/news-room/panasonic
    Wow! Thanks for that info. I emailed Tony Corbell last year prior to my Z7 purchase. He indicated nothing for the Lumix, but he too, wanted it for the S1R. This is awesome.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    JD,

    My advice is GO AHEAD AND GET THE SONY, AND SELL THE NIKON... Just tag me first on all your Nikon gear!


    Hi Jack,
    Of course, but it's not so easy letting this Z7 go...yet. I did handle a Sony A7R4 and liked it. It wasn't much different than the Z. I'm confident that any new pro Z would include the features that imo, are missing from the Z7 camera. But, so far the Z series have been the best digital cameras i've used and that includes MFD too. I'm a hybrid shooter in that I incorporate film in my workflow, so I could use the film cameras as a backup if needed.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    I've had similar thoughts. I do love the Z6 and it's ergonomics/feel are perfect for me, but my only issues are lack of native 1.4 lenses and focus tracking. Focus tracking is good, not great, and I get more out of focus shots than I feel like I should. Maybe it's user error and maybe my subject matter is too fast (my toddler rarely sits still and is super fast).

    I despise the Sony menu system and don't care for the ergonomics (I've owned both the A7R and A7RII), but have toyed with the idea of getting another if it would give better AF tracking. I also discovered recently I qualify for a hefty EDU discount on Sony gear, which I do not on Nikon. I may rent an A9II or A7RIV and 85mm 1.4 in the near future and see how it performs.

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Hi Jack,
    Of course, but it's not so easy letting this Z7 go...yet. I did handle a Sony A7R4 and liked it. It wasn't much different than the Z.
    Well, you're young and can probably adapt to most anything. Us old farts find dealing with change tougher
    Life is short, so my advice is get the gear you want to use today, today, and sell off the stuff it replaces. And I absolutely understand you not wanting to let go of the Z7 just yet
    Jack
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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Hi Jack,
    Of course, but it's not so easy letting this Z7 go...yet. I did handle a Sony A7R4 and liked it. It wasn't much different than the Z. I'm confident that any new pro Z would include the features that imo, are missing from the Z7 camera. But, so far the Z series have been the best digital cameras i've used and that includes MFD too. I'm a hybrid shooter in that I incorporate film in my workflow, so I could use the film cameras as a backup if needed.
    you might bring you in a risk of regretting JD ...

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    Re: Nikon Z7 to Sony A7r4

    Seriously, to me they are all just tools. In the case of Sony vs Nikon vs Fuji vs Canon vs Leica, it's all about how the tool feels in my hands. Granted there are nuances to their output that may be unique, but IME they are so insignificant your typical client doesn't notice them, let alone care. As photographers, of course we can argue about those kinds of minutia, couple them with handling, rare-earth features and of course accessory availability*, and make justification for brand X over brand Y. But none of that will make an image from one better than an image from the other -- that's all driven by the one who wields the tool...

    *I leave lens availability off the list because it is essentially a non-issue now for mirrorless bodies. It is indeed a great time to be a photographer as you can pretty much choose and use whatever body you want with whatever lenses you want, included medium format
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