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Thread: What a difference a converter makes

  1. #1
    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    What a difference a converter makes

    I have been playing with RPP today and I am simply amazed with the detail it brings out compared to ACR. Maybe I am doing something wrong in ACR. If I am someone should tell me but look t these images.

    You need to see the large images to really see what is going on. Look at the details in the green leaf on the main red bud and the detail on the purple flowers bottom left.

    First one is RPP



    Second is ACR



    And full Size files can be seen here:

    FULL SIZE RPP

    Full Size ACR

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    It's in French. In a nut shell, what does it say?

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Loosely translating the conclusion:

    - The ranking of the best software for the A900 is very different to the A700.
    - DxO beats IDC and ACR handily.
    - Bibble Pro 5, Beta 1.1 is very good too, with better detail, but worse noise handling.
    - Lightroom is far from being the best for high ISO.
    - With all the software, ISO up to 800 yields good A2 prints.
    - At ISO 1600, A3 or A4 prints are good with all software.
    - The author had some NoiseNinja (built into Bibble) licence problems, and feels that if he could have used it fully, it would have been much better.
    - With some software, noise management reduces colour saturation.

    Finally, there are some links to mosaics of crops like this for ISO 1600:

    http://www.alpha-numerique.fr/images...00_1600ISO.jpg

    And two links to raw images taken at ISO 1600 and 3200:

    http://www.alpha-numerique.fr/images...00/ISO3200.ARW
    http://www.alpha-numerique.fr/images...00/ISO6400.ARW
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It's in French. In a nut shell, what does it say?
    Marc,

    You have to click on the buttons for each converter and see the difference for yourself. I do not necessarily agree with the author's conclusions, hence each should decide for himself depending on how he likes the different interpretations.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    In the introduction, the author claims that DXO results bring the A900 to an almost comparable level to the 5D2 and D3X. He believes that the origin of the high-iso noise of the A900 lies essentially in the software, hence the abilty of DXO to solve it.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    - The author had some NoiseNinja (built into Bibble) licence problems, and feels that if he could have used it fully, it would have been much better.
    Actually he says that since he has a full licence for Noise Ninja, he was able to benefit from the full support of this software. He did not try the basic outfit (which doesn't require a licence), so he's not able to say if the results would be comparable or not.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by ryc View Post
    I have been playing with RPP today and I am simply amazed with the detail it brings out compared to ACR. Maybe I am doing something wrong in ACR. If I am someone should tell me but look t these images.

    You need to see the large images to really see what is going on. Look at the details in the green leaf on the main red bud and the detail on the purple flowers bottom left.

    First one is RPP



    Second is ACR



    And full Size files can be seen here:

    FULL SIZE RPP

    Full Size ACR
    If you open both larger files provided and extract the Exif information (RPP doesn't provide initial camera info, but all the details of both files are available under the Advanced tab). It appears that the ACR file has +25 color noise reduction applied and the PPR file has none.

    I wonder how C1 does in this mix?

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Exactly, I am missing C1 in that comparison.

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Loosely translating the conclusion:

    - The ranking of the best software for the A900 is very different to the A700.
    - DxO beats IDC and ACR handily.
    - Bibble Pro 5, Beta 1.1 is very good too, with better detail, but worse noise handling.
    - Lightroom is far from being the best for high ISO.
    - With all the software, ISO up to 800 yields good A2 prints.
    - At ISO 1600, A3 or A4 prints are good with all software.
    - The author had some NoiseNinja (built into Bibble) licence problems, and feels that if he could have used it fully, it would have been much better.
    - With some software, noise management reduces colour saturation.

    Finally, there are some links to mosaics of crops like this for ISO 1600:

    http://www.alpha-numerique.fr/images...00_1600ISO.jpg

    And two links to raw images taken at ISO 1600 and 3200:

    http://www.alpha-numerique.fr/images...00/ISO3200.ARW
    http://www.alpha-numerique.fr/images...00/ISO6400.ARW
    Thanks!

    Well, this is interesting to say the least. ISO 1600 on the A900 is a very important ISO for me because of the occasional need to open up backgrounds when shooting flash.

    Of note, in this specific test, C1 Pro does about as well as LR except the greens in LR are slightly less noisy.

    DxO seems to retain good color and contrast with less noise although not quite as much micro detail as C1 shows.

    If this is even somewhat correct, could this suggest selection of different converters for different applications?

    It would appear that DxO would be a good candidate for higher ISO wedding/portrait work where cleaner skin tones trumps micro detail.

    Your thoughts?

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    Senior Member Braeside's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    There is a problem with Dx0 and the A900 at present, shadows are green tinted. Apparently DxO know about this, there was a recent discussion here
    David Anderson

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    i am having trouble seeing a significant or even discernible difference, even in the green leaf by the bud...a slight color difference, mostly in the green, is all I see

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Actually he says that since he has a full licence for Noise Ninja, he was able to benefit from the full support of this software. He did not try the basic outfit (which doesn't require a licence), so he's not able to say if the results would be comparable or not.
    Ah, whoops, speed-reading again. Sorry. I was not aware of the existence of a basic module, and thought he was saying something else.
    Last edited by carstenw; 15th June 2009 at 06:40.
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    If this is even somewhat correct, could this suggest selection of different converters for different applications?

    It would appear that DxO would be a good candidate for higher ISO wedding/portrait work where cleaner skin tones trumps micro detail.

    Your thoughts?
    Being no A900 owner, take my opinion with a heap of salt, but unless you are printing for exhibition, I cannot imagine that the small differences between the best converters in the 100% crops translates to anything more than negligible differences in print. Small tweaks might even be able to almost completely nullify any advantage one has over the others.
    Carsten - Website

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    Member picman's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Exactly, I am missing C1 in that comparison.
    I have both C1 and DxO. At the moment I somewhat regret having got DxO as I really prefer C1. Mind you, I never shoot above 400 ISO and usually at 200 ISO. My problems with DxO are multiple: slow (up to 10 times slower than C1), you cannot see important changes unless you magnify at least 75%, the colors just do not seem OK to me when compared to Aperture and C1. This last point now seems to be confirmed by that other thread. One thing it certainly has got going for it is the distortion correction which especially for the CZ 16-35 can be nice. But as far as chromatic aberration and purple fringing goes I simply seem to have better results with C1. It is not perfect though: no lens-specific lens corrections, no dust-tool and it has a few annoying bugs.


    Cheers, Bob.

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i am having trouble seeing a significant or even discernible difference, even in the green leaf by the bud...a slight color difference, mostly in the green, is all I see
    There is more of the cloth pattern of the fake magenta flowers bottom left. However, I wonder if its due to Color Noise filtration on the ACR file where the the other one has no color noise filtration. There shouldn't be any need for color noise filters at that ISO.

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    Senior Member ryc's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Looks like I will be trying the DxO tonight. ZJust based on the results I saw on the site comparing the converters. The question is how will it handle the detail like in RPP which was not compared.

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    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    Quote Originally Posted by ryc View Post
    Looks like I will be trying the DxO tonight. ZJust based on the results I saw on the site comparing the converters. The question is how will it handle the detail like in RPP which was not compared.
    I wouldn't waste too much time with DxO until they get it fixed for the A900:
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...2090670&page=1

    It seems odd to me that, as precise and thorough as DxO claims to be, that they can't figure out the A900 black point??

    As far as the RAW test Edward posted, IMO, the DxO results are WAY too NR'ed, and one of the problems with DxO is that, like some more popular converters, there is always some baseline NR applied.

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    Member Quino Terceño's Avatar
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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    To my eyes the the noise structure (or its absence) feels nicer on the ACR file. RPP's midtones are turning a bit muddier but the file is holding more detail in general, overall color seems better also.

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    Re: What a difference a converter makes

    This thread takes me back to darkroom discussions and comparisons of the plethora of developers for use with whatever ASA(ISO) film!

    At the end of the day whatever works for you is the very best one....believe me!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

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