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Thread: San Juan 2008-05

  1. #101
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    The difference between the backs is something is really what you are shooting overall performance versus value the P25 plus is it. The P30 plus is suited to people work and it does a damn good job of it but it is a crop sensor and you really cannot use it for swings and tilt work so it does have it's limitations but ISO speed and such it is a tough act to beat. The P45 plus has the best micro detail among the Phase backs , these folks actually market there products correctly and tell you exactly what each one is good for and there actually quite correct. I like what I have seen and happy with my choice although I have not tested the Sinar, Hassy and Aptus which i am sure some of them are very good indeed. This just make sense for me at this time. I loved MF from my Hassy days and it sure is a kick shooting it again. I totally had a blast shooting these models today in under the gun pressure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  2. #102
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    One from last night with the GRD2. This was shot at ISO 400 but was at least a stop underexposed. Jack was teaching us some new B&W conversion techniques in the workshop yesterday.

    Attachment 4367
    Last edited by Terry; 16th May 2008 at 03:49.

  3. #103
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Kurt as you know I have been avoiding this issue for too long and the bottom line is bigger is better. MF has and always will be better overall in images. WE certainly can get close, Nice files from Nikon , Leica an the others have certainly tried and we have pushed hard to get there but MF digital just freaking rocks. Once you try these you start banging your head with what the hell have we been thinking . But nothing wrong with that, certainly the DMR and M8 images have done a awesome job for us and now we see the Nikon D3 starting to do the same. But reality is time to grow up also, as Pro's you just have to deliver the best you can with what you have. These backs are just the ticket even though it is expensive and a tougher road to work in. The results are what count. As much as i have loved the M8 and it's light weight and size plus the wonderful images from it nothing will beat a MF file. The thing that eluded me is I thought bigger files meant big weight and bulk , sure there bigger but honestly my Mamiya is no bigger than your D3 and actually lighter, we have 2 D3's here plus a D300 . I still use the same bags so really not the biggest issue. The big concern is feeding it light. Seriously it is a 2 stop loss in DOF compared to FF and you need to make that up somewhere. Reason i said i need a great ISO 400 for the times you need to squeeze the envelope. The Phase backs actually all three of them will give you a nice ISO 400 file and some better than that but your best option is using C1 to do it also. These backs are fine tuned to to C1 better than any program I have seen between camera and company software. This is a real marriage , stuff that looked a little off in LR was perfect in C1 and i will explain that later but when looking at these Mf systems look for a damn system that is tight between camera , back and software. I cannot stress this enough , seriously after one minute of setup I am shooting with no issues and it just works and this is not a knock on anyone but Phase has this stuff down really well. Look for a system that has the three parts as tight as you can get otherwise it is something not sure i want to deal with.

    Guy,
    Not sure I would agree that you have been totally "avoiding" the issue of MF for that long, but more that you were too caught up in trying to extract the most from the M8.

    Something you comment on here, the "marriage" of camera and software, is exactly the wondering that I brought up about the MF world in some other threads, and interestingly, am seeing more of that now with the 35mm DSLR folks. (Canon introduced lens correction tools into DPP, Nikon using more "tuned" things in Capture, NX, etc.)

    The concern is having too many different tools needed to deliver what you need and want. Yeah, I did say "too many" What does seem very important is to find things that deliver what you want for how you use your gear. Personally, I think MF is able to deliver some really outstanding images that are for big use, holding details that we just cannot quite get with the smaller sensor cameras, regardless of how good they may be. If the M8 had its present capabilities, but with a file that could be enlarged a whole lot, I am not sure MF would be as tempting for many. Unfortunately, it does not, and frankly, cannot get there. That sensor size does matter.

    Glad that you are enjoying the new stuff so much, as well as having "settled" into something that you think will do what you need.....for now

    LJ

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    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    One from last night with the GRD2. This was shot at ISO 400 but was at least a stop underexposed. Jack was teaching us some new B&W conversion techniques in the workshop yesterday.

    Attachment 4367
    I love that shot!!!

    I wish I was there with you all this week.

    Mike
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  5. #105
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    This AM... still bleary from days of concentrated activity we boarded a van to visit the rainforest. Most of the team shot landscape and macro. I chose to shoot IR with the M8. Now what I used was a real low tech (no tech) system... just a lee 87 filter, hand held in front of the lens.


    These images were made with the M8 28 2.8 shot wide open. I'm not sure if all lenses produce hot or warm spots in the middle of the frame... but in this case i like to think that it added a highlight to the central leaves.

    This first image is IR, converted with LR and split toned.

  6. #106
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    This image was shot with the IR filter and then converted to grayscale with True Grain. I added a moderate amount of vignetting on this and the other images in the series.

  7. #107
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    This last image was shot as part of a test of the IR filter in the m8. One image shot with and without the IR cut filter. In a rainforest there is a big difference lol.

    I decided to use as a base the frame shot without the IR filter... I did an HSL desat and then split toned it.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Todd,
    What you might want to do if you want to reduce the hotspot is to in lightroom in the channel palette, see if the hot spot appears in the red channel.
    If not, then just select only that channel then convert the image mode to greyscale, then to rgb if you intend to blend it with the color shot.
    -bob

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Terry - the B&W is really fab!

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I am totally beat and about three days behind in editing images, but took a few minutes to scan them and saw these form last night I just had to share

    First is a long hand-held shot of the belly dancer performing for us at dinner last night: M8, 28 Cron wide open, ISO 640 at about 7/10ths sec:



    Now here's the really interesting one. I guess the belly dancer generated a bit of competition in the ladies at our table. ONE result (yes, there were multiple!) is this shot of our very own David Kipper getting a lap dance right after the belly dancer performed. Same stats as above, only this one at around 1/3rd sec -- check out that smile on his face!:



    More to come when I have time. This was another super trip, lot's of great folks to shoot and hang out with!

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  11. #111
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Jack we should mention that was his wife . LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Jack these are even better than what you described.
    David - you need this printed out!

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Thanks Mike & Charles - In our "one on one" sessions, I worked some more with Jack on B&W and he had some good processing suggestions on the shot. Bottom line the GRD2 is great for this type of shooting it was very fast from "seeing" the shot to getting the shot.

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Terry - the B&W is really fab!
    I agree with Charles......


    Terry we're getting Quite Risque with the grd
    that little 'GEM'
    has made you the best photographer on the shoot

    Best, H

  15. #115
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    That camera is fun for sure. Have to get one. Sorry this is just boring rain forest shots. Shoot with a P25 and yes it does rain in the rain forest. Sorry I am a exhausted puppy at this point and ready to go home since I missed my wife's 50th BD today i need to do a little makeup. But it was a great trip and a awesome workshop with really great folks so I go home with a big smile and also have to congratulate my daughter for graduating high school today. She had a rough time in the end with geometry and it was touch and go but so proud she pulled it out. Thanks Guy
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Tres Cool Shots Guy..........

    But are we suffering from toooo much Lap Dancing & Model Smooching

  17. #117
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I know , I have a few secret files lurking just need to process them
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Guy - congrats to your wife and a special congrats to your daughter for her accomplishment. I will add another to you and Jack for pulling off what seems to be another great workshop. . . . and Nice images as well!!!

  19. #119
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Jack we should mention that was his wife . LOL
    Uh, to clarify further, that was not MY wife, but David's!

    ,
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  20. #120
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Is that Guy trying to get a few tips from a clean-shaven Ron Jeremy?

    Nope, it's just him sharing some laughs with Lance Schad from Capture Integration. BTW, special thanks to Lance for having an assortment of Phase-One backs and cameras on hand for our participants to demo! (This shot was taken with the M8 + 28 Cron )
    Jack
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  21. #121
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I am a bit behind on the posting. These are from the Belly Dancer evening. The first few are the Noctilux and 1250iso. The one of Jack was 1/4 of a second. The images in this post were all Noctilux and available darkness. Lets see what the Nikon D3 shooters got



    Here is Bob at 1/8th.



    Lance and Ray:



    Ray with the Mamiya and a special Leica flash


  22. #122
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    The belly Dancers arrived after we had been there for a while and started our meals.



    Cynthia decided to give it a try.





    Marcie then joined in.







    Guy waited until she put her sword away before patting her bottom.



    Last edited by robsteve; 17th May 2008 at 06:54.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Robert,
    These look fantastic. What a great night!

  24. #124
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    An amazing week... tired but in a good way.

    Our last night saw us on the roof top garden at The gallery Inn. Lance asked me to shoot a portrait of him "working".

    Shot with M8 28 wide open converted with true grain.

  25. #125
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Lance had me cornered up on the roof and forced a 45+ back into my hands. Wow a great camera... smooth controls, intuitive.


    I repaid him with a softer portrait shot with the lights of modern San Juan in the background.


    M8 28 2.8


    This was my first workshop with DPI.

    A great balance of shooting, fun, PP.

    I learned from Guy and Jack but also from the synergy of the other attendees. A really knowledgeable and generous group. Thanks... and I look forward to seeing some of the great images that were made this week.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Great images here from my fellow workshop attendees but they can only hint at how much fun we had down here. Learned a lot and haven't laughed this hard in forever. My laptop isn't up to the task of processing my images but I'll post some of the better ones when i get home. Thanks to Jack and Guy for hosting an amazing experience. BTW, as some of the images show, my wife Marcie had a blast... quite different than what she expected before she met the participants

  27. #127
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    These are from the last night of the workshop. We had the chance to shoot the sunset from the roof of the Galleria Inn, which overlooks a lot of Old Town.



    These last two are shot with the 180mm f3.4 APO.




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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Waking up my last morning in San Juan was a challenge but was well rewarded. Very pleased with the light this morning. All taken with the Nikon D300 and 18-200 lens.


    Attachment 4443


    Attachment 4444


    Attachment 4445

    I guess this one (below) shows the problems with this lens, as the ocean isn't quite bowl shaped and this also shows some vignetting. I will need to consult my photoshop gurus on how to try and fix (Jack/Guy help please )
    Attachment 4446


    Attachment 4447

  29. #129
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Terry:

    I really like the third image. The single person on the wall makes the image.

    Robert

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Rob: Great set of images!

    Ted: VERY nice B&W conversion -- liked that trick, eh?

    Terry: Awesome series, great compositions! That had to be this morning, because I never saw skies like that -- ?

    Congrats all!
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    wow what fun..great images!!
    Mike

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Terry: Awesome series, great compositions! That had to be this morning, because I never saw skies like that -- ?
    Thanks Jack,
    It was this morning....It wasn't easy getting up for our 5:15 departure. Bob, David and Lance were also up and out early and we were all rewarded with good light.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    It's pretty obvious you all had a great time. Congrats!

  34. #134
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Just got in late Saturday night. Hope everyone got home safe and sound . Start catching up tomorrow . Now i have my big monitor i can process better
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  35. #135
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I helped Terry edit those this morning when she got back. She scored big time with the great light this morning. I tried to get up and go but my body said no way. Damn I missed it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Finally got back to my desktop computer where I can process some of the images I took. What a difference an additional 8GB of RAM makes... the 2GB I have in my laptop is no match for the files from these MF backs. I shot the sunrise with Terry, Bob, and Lance and the light really was special... This one may be a bit warm but it's the the way I remember it.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    WoW!! great light and clouds at the Fort. Really makes the everyday view into something special. Carolyn and I left at 5am so we missed it ;but ,we both had a great time and enjoyed meeting the entire group. She is already off to the Apple store to evaluate "Aperture" . I am plugged into the wall socket trying to recharge my dead battery. Roger

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    David:

    Awesome capture, smart of you to wait for the right light! (I was obviously in too much of a hurry to get up on that roof for a glass of wine )

    Cheers,
    Jack
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  39. #139
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Dave, that is a real classic image. I'd print it big !!

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Thanks guys... it really does look print worthy in full rez... think I'll take advantage of that free print for workshop members with this one. The secret to this shot was taking a nap the day before while my friends were sipping wine

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    One from our model shoot...

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Here are a couple more from the model shoot. My 10mp digital back can't compare to the Phase and Sinar backs being shot by the others.








    The green gate added a green cast to the models faces.


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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    On the model shoot I found motion blur and focus errors ruined most of my shots. There is a reason they shoot models with big power packs and at f8 or more.

    Robert

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    On the model shoot I found motion blur and focus errors ruined most of my shots. There is a reason they shoot models with big power packs and at f8 or more.

    Robert
    Robert,
    My model shoot M8/75 cron keeper rate is low for with poor focus being the major issue. That is where the D300 and AF was helpful. That being said even with the D300 my overall keeper rate needs more practice

  45. #145
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Mine look fine straight from the box
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #146
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Little green on the left side but not bad. Unless we had strobes here to be expected
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Rob and Terry, as far as keepers on a model shoot, I wouldn't be upset with a low rate under these circumstances. Having a large group shoot models simultaneously is not the ideal setup (but it sure was fun). As Jack mentioned during that portion of the workshop, it's difficult, if not impossible, to get into a rhythm or get any kind of rapport with the model when she doesn't even know which camera to look at. FWIW, when I pick my keepers, I'm looking more for the facial expression I like than for ultimate sharpness. If I haven't nailed focus on that capture, I soften it up further with some glamour processing like I did on the shot I just posted.

  48. #148
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Funny looking tourists. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Sunrise shot of Terry, Lance (on the left) and Bob's ghost Kind of spooky when you're only a few steps from the graveyard. Got to love that early morning light.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Beautiful shot David. I don't mind being in MF shots this far away. It is when a 100% crop of the face is like 11x14 that it gets pretty scary .

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