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Thread: San Juan 2008-05

  1. #201
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    These are all shot with the P30 plus back . Just found this one lurking in the files. Serenity
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Got to get a flower in here
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Serenity is really wonderful. The tones are superb!

  4. #204
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Actually done in C1 with there B&w profile
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Another Panorama from the San Juan Trip. Anybody notice something strange in it?


  6. #206
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Hey he did not pay us 3x the workshop fee. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    With a wardrobe change I think Jack might have a future in modeling

    Guy, these shots are great.
    Bob, agree with Todd, that first shot is super.

    Just for the record, you really don't want to go walking under the trees in that forrest. Lots and lots of snakes hanging from the branches.

  8. #208
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You realize i am going to get strangled over this one.
    Jack attempting to show us his modeling techniques.
    You !

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  9. #209
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    But you still love me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Jack - Arch the back a little more next time please - it helps to straighten out some of the lines!

  11. #211
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Here is the DMR with Flexcolor processing. Flexcolor seems to do the best with skin tones and reds like in the dress.


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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    [QUOTE=robsteve;29554]Another Panorama from the San Juan Trip. Anybody notice something strange in it?

    As in Ray either being part of identical triplets or just in all three shots.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    You !

    Ummmmmm....I think the answer is Admin rights, they can come in handy

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Wow, it took me a looong time to find the kitty! Glad everyone is having a good time. See you tomorrow.
    OK, you are all driving me bananas! Where is the cat? I don't see any cat!
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  15. #215
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    OK, you are all driving me bananas! Where is the cat? I don't see any cat!
    Look near the upper left golden mean, small cat face in a shadow.
    Jack
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    What, pray tell, is a "golden mean"? The noun "mean" is an average. So a "golden mean" is an average Jesus gave us? Jack, circle the silly cat in Photoshop and repost. I cannot see it.
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Google it

    Here is your kitty:
    Jack
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Wow! I could not see that until you pointed it out. My brain had a blank spot for some reason. I never doubted there was a cat there, I just couldn't make it out.

    Googling "golden mean" gets me various mathematical formulae regarding "perfect irrational numbers" and the Wiktionary defines it as:

    Noun
    golden mean (plural golden means)
    A position of precise balance between good and evil.

    Still don't know how this applies to that image.

    Thanks for showing me the cat. Maybe it belongs to Erwin Schrödinger?
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05


  20. #220
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Well I don't see how the Fibonacci Series applies but I will take your word for it. And I have a minor in Mathematics. I studied the Fibonacci Series as a regression tool but it was never called the "golden mean" or that it had applications in photography.
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  21. #221
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I don't get it either. He may mean the rule of thirds. A third in from the left and a tird down from the top.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    The Golden Mean: Draw a line from one corner of the composition to the opposite corner (diagonal). Now draw lines from the remaining two corners. Each of these lines are to be perpendicular to the original diagonal line. The intersections are the Golden Mean. Place your subject of one of these intersections. It is very close to the rule of thirds.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Carlos - Golden Section. Google it.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Golden mean or golden section; take a line, divide it into two parts, a and b, where b is the longer part.

    The golden section is the ratio of the shorter to the longer being equal to the longer to the total length - a:b = b:(a+b)

    or, roughly, 5:8 [and thus 8:13] or about 1:1.618
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    The rule of thirds is derived from the 1:1.618~ exact golden section, simply being rounded off to 1:1.6667. In art parlance, the "golden means" refer to the points where any two golden section dividing lines intersect, and there will be four of them in every rectangular image.

    Cheers,
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    The Golden Mean: Draw a line from one corner of the composition to the opposite corner (diagonal). Now draw lines from the remaining two corners. Each of these lines are to be perpendicular to the original diagonal line. The intersections are the Golden Mean. Place your subject of one of these intersections. It is very close to the rule of thirds.
    The intersection of two diagonal lines (corner to corner, since the intersection must be perpendicular) in any four sided parallelogram is its center.

    Still don't see how a mathematical derivation of a nautilus shell has any bearing on this.

    BTW, I am not being argumentative. I just don't see the correlation. Just like I couldn't see the cat.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  27. #227
    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    The intersection of two diagonal lines (corner to corner, since the intersection must be perpendicular) in any four sided parallelogram is its center.

    Still don't see how a mathematical derivation of a nautilus shell has any bearing on this.

    BTW, I am not being argumentative. I just don't see the correlation. Just like I couldn't see the cat.
    A golden section rectangle can be divided alone one of the section lines into a square and a 'reciprocal' rectangle. This 'reciprocal' rectangle can be further divided into smaller squares and 'reciprocal' rectangles, all gradually getting smaller.

    If you start with the smallest square inside the original and draw a radius in each square you end up with a 'whirling square rectangle'

    Lightroom offers overlays with thirds, golden sections and this whirling pattern - hence the reference to the Nautilus shell

    Take a look at Geometry of Design by Kimberly Elam. This has excellent diagrams to show what I am trying to describe. It also explains the relationship between golden sections and the Fibonacci sequence.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The rule of thirds is derived from the 1:1.618~ exact golden section, simply being rounded off to 1:1.6667. In art parlance, the "golden means" refer to the points where any two golden section dividing lines intersect, and there will be four of them in every rectangular image.

    Cheers,
    Hmm, in the 'rule of thirds' the larger:total proportions would be 2:3 or 1:1.5

    FWIW, The DIN A series of papers has an aspect ratio of square root of 2, or about 1.414
    Last edited by Robert Campbell; 22nd May 2008 at 09:38.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    It sounds a little crazy and a bit sterile to try to apply a math formula to a composition. But if you do follow up and read a bit, you'll discover that the relationships between objects as described by the golden mean have been recognized as the "most pleasing" by humankind for centuries. It's one of those things that border on the mystical--a mathematical formula that holds true for something that occurs in nature (the Nautilus shell) and objects created by man (i.e., ancient architecture). Robert's book recommendation is a good one. Worth the price for anyone engaged in any form of design or composition.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    It sounds a little crazy and a bit sterile to try to apply a math formula to a composition. But if you do follow up and read a bit, you'll discover that the relationships between objects as described by the golden mean have been recognized as the "most pleasing" by humankind for centuries. It's one of those things that border on the mystical--a mathematical formula that holds true for something that occurs in nature (the Nautilus shell) and objects created by man (i.e., ancient architecture). Robert's book recommendation is a good one. Worth the price for anyone engaged in any form of design or composition.
    I got it on your recommendation it's an excellent introduction.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I will pick up a copy from BN. I am definitely going to have to read more into this to grow as a photographer and to lambast the memory of my college math teachers who completely glossed over this.
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    The intersection of two diagonal lines (corner to corner, since the intersection must be perpendicular) in any four sided parallelogram is its center.

    Still don't see how a mathematical derivation of a nautilus shell has any bearing on this.

    BTW, I am not being argumentative. I just don't see the correlation. Just like I couldn't see the cat.
    Carlos,
    This is approx. what I am trying to tell you. I did not say intersection of two diagonal lines. This is just an easy way to visualize the concept.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    In addition to Cindy's image:


    Attachment 4678

  34. #234
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Maybe you guys can get Bill Maxwell to make a focusing screen with these lines scribed on it.


  35. #235
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I will pick up a copy from BN. I am definitely going to have to read more into this to grow as a photographer and to lambast the memory of my college math teachers who completely glossed over this.
    Carlos,
    Do not feel alone. I KNEW what Jack was referring to and still did not see the cat's face, probably because I was being too strict in my application of where his hint was directing us

    Tim's comments about how historically these sorts of "balances" within images is true, but it fails to take into account the size of those objects and how they appear within the surroundings. Jack used the hint as a locator, not as a compositional element (I sure hope).

    Doug's comment (somewhat tongue in cheek) about having lines scribed in viewfinder screens is not far off.....as long as one does not decide to crop things later, as then the comp will most likely be off.

    In the end, some of these mathematical rules about placement of things with in a frame for viewing are very nice, and make even more sense for things that draw you into or take you out of an image, but they are only guides. The composition is still at the hands of the photographer and how he/she decides to crop and display the image. Following the "rules" is good, but breaking them is also good

    LJ

  36. #236
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    In addition to Cindy's image:


    Attachment 4678
    I know I've seen this used in a corporate logo somewhere...
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I know I've seen this used in a corporate logo somewhere...
    Some logo: when I click on the attachment 4678, all I get is a black rectangle...
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    You can see it in post #233 above.
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    The golden number, the rule of thirds, that's old school!
    In this new millinium, we're talking "Diagonal"!
    Go here and discover the new trend in composition/design.
    Francois B.

  40. #240
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Mozbee View Post
    The golden number, the rule of thirds, that's old school!
    In this new millinium, we're talking "Diagonal"!
    Go here and discover the new trend in composition/design.
    Thanks for sharing this its quite interesting especially the fact that you can use lightroom to evaluate you composition .

  41. #241
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    BRAVO!
    I love this forum.

  42. #242
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Thanks for sharing this its quite interesting especially the fact that you can use lightroom to evaluate you composition .
    We actually teach this on most of the workshops, we did not however in San Juan since it was more about shooting and venue but Jack and i do a nice composition and exposure module that really is pretty good by showing some images and going over why it works compositionally wise and we do use the golden mean but we also talk about diagonals and circles of composition and other factors like DOF and such.
    What really makes a image is light and composition along with subject matter . So this really is a major learning tool to create better images and very important to learn than go out and break the rules also and create something unique.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  43. #243
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Here's another way to compose -- WITHOUT a camera!

    http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=0k4lsi1dql

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  44. #244
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Here's another way to compose -- WITHOUT a camera!

    http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=0k4lsi1dql

    ,
    nice video..where was it before I went to Rome? you know how many kilometers that is to walk!

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Wow, pretty amazing. Having one of his drawings would be pretty cool.

  46. #246
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I shot this on the way back from one of our evening meals.


  47. #247
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Wonder what they're discussing? And their assistant with the party pizza all ready!

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    I liked the lady with the pizza too. I don't think she was part of the group. BTW, that was AWB on the M8. Didn't do a bad job.

  49. #249
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    That's a good capture and I like the way that lady is carrying her pizza.

  50. #250
    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
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    Re: San Juan 2008-05

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Finally got back to my desktop computer where I can process some of the images I took. What a difference an additional 8GB of RAM makes... the 2GB I have in my laptop is no match for the files from these MF backs. I shot the sunrise with Terry, Bob, and Lance and the light really was special... This one may be a bit warm but it's the the way I remember it.
    Congratulation David!
    The colors and mood of this image caught my eyes.

    -Son
    ALPA (MAX, STC, TC) | CAMBO (Actus DB2, WRS-AE) | CONTAX | HASSELBLAD | LEICA | DB (CFV-16, CFV-39, IQ180, IQ360, IQ3100, P45+) | Lens (Canon, Fujinon, Leica, Nikon, Pentax, Rodenstock, Schneider, Zeiss)

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