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Thread: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

  1. #1
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    Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Has anyone had problems selling to overseas buyers, who want to pay via Paypal?
    I can not determine how to receive payment, as well as verify if the seller is "real" or not. With Ebay you can see his feedback, but with paypal, anyone overseas will NOT have a Paypal verifiable address. How can you be sure that the funds will not be "reversed" if they challenge the sale, or if the credit card or paypal account use was "unauthorized" ?

    Any thoughts??

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    I have sold a few items overseas with payment through Paypal without any problems. However, I've only sold to members of the forums (fredmiranda, RFF, GetDPI) who are established members, preferrably with good feedback.

    Chargebacks are a common problem with Paypal so not having a verified address can be a problem should it happen.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Inmark View Post
    Has anyone had problems selling to overseas buyers, who want to pay via Paypal?
    I can not determine how to receive payment, as well as verify if the seller is "real" or not. With Ebay you can see his feedback, but with paypal, anyone overseas will NOT have a Paypal verifiable address. How can you be sure that the funds will not be "reversed" if they challenge the sale, or if the credit card or paypal account use was "unauthorized" ?

    Any thoughts??
    I've done dozens of sales to non-USA addresses and received payment using Paypal: it's the most reliable and easiest way of transferring money across national boundaries I've found.

    Buyers with Paypal accounts have confirmed addresses on Paypal.

    Do remember that in addition to the usual Paypal fees, a currency conversion fee will be assessed. I add a handling/packaging fee to cover packaging and Paypal fees above and beyond the actual cost of shipment.

    With any Paypal payment, once the payment is received, I withdraw it to my bank account. Only when it is posted to the bank account do I consider payment received and ship the purchased item. My interaction with sellers makes that very explicit.

    Similarly, I use USPS International Priority, insured with signature confirmation required for shipping overseas to protect myself against losses.

    So: I don't ship until I have the money for sure (at my discretion), and I pay for the shipping insurance to protect myself if the item is reported as "never received" by the buyer. I figure that if it is truly lost in the mail, I'll let the USPS and whatever recipient postal system pay for doing a sloppy job. And if the buyer is lying, it's up to the postal system to prosecute them ... they have more money than I do for that sort of thing.

    In the many transactions I've done with overseas buyers, I've never once had any problems at all. I've had more issues with US buyers ... !

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    I'm going to move this to the sunset bar folks. Good place for this discussion. Thanks Guy
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    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Inmark View Post
    .... but with paypal, anyone overseas will NOT have a Paypal verifiable address.
    According to paypal in order to get verified, one needs to:
    1. Confirm email address.
    2. Add a credit card or debit card to paypal account
    3. Link and confirm card

    (fromhttps://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/ma...568&isSrch=Yes)

    Overseas buyer can have verified account. My is verified and I have being using paypal for more than 6 years. But to be cautious is good, whether selling within or out of the states.

  6. #6
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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Paypal Does NOT confirm buyers that live outside of the US and Canada, and one other country. Therefore they do NOT cover any losses that result from problems.
    How can I find out if someone has been an active member of this site, or just a lurker?

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Inmark View Post
    Paypal Does NOT confirm buyers that live outside of the US and Canada, and one other country. Therefore they do NOT cover any losses that result from problems.
    How can I find out if someone has been an active member of this site, or just a lurker?
    I have no idea how Paypal will cover losses. I use them to obtain payments, not to insure goods.

    What does someone being an active member of this site or just a lurker have to do with anything? Is your buyer a participant in the forum here? Just search for their participation.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Inmark View Post
    Paypal Does NOT confirm buyers that live outside of the US and Canada, and one other country.
    Not too sure what do you mean by confirm. I type the word "confirm" through the Help at paypal and these are the outcome:

    1. What is a confirmed address?
    2. How do I get Verified?
    3. How do I confirm an address?
    4. What does it mean if a seller or buyer is Verified or Unverified?
    5. How do I confirm my email address?

    (from https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/ma...hButton=Search)

    Perhaps you are referring to:

    What is a confirmed address?
    A confirmed address means that the buyer's credit card billing and shipping address are the same. In general, we cannot confirm most addresses outside the U.S. at this time.

    If your seller requires a confirmed shipping address, we suggest you contact them directly. Sellers may deliver to an unconfirmed address, but they are responsible for any buyer-initiated disputes.

    ((https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/ma...212&isSrch=Yes)

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    @Inmark,

    I use PP all the time for moving money to and from me here in Australia, and I have a Verified account—not sure what you mean by "confirm".

    +1 for Godfrey's suggestions, too.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    In any financial transactions, in-country or cross-border, err on the side of caution.

    This holds not only for sellers, but also for buyers. A seller might worry about getting his/her funds.

    A buyer too has to worry about getting what he/she supposedly paid for.

    I used to have a Paypal account. Sellers swindled me. I do not use Paypal anymore. I only deal with reputable dealers.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    I have a verified address here in the UK. Bit confused as to why you think PP don't verify or cover loses outside of the US.
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    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    to the OP:

    It's simple: as a seller, you wait until you get the funds, then you ship

    As a buyer, you send money, and hope the seller ships.

    If you are a buyer, you will want to know their veracity/probity before sending money; that's what feedback is for. HTH, KL

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    I've never had a problem with PayPal - despite the horror stories out there. Have shippied to the UK, US, Germany and Russia (yes, Russia).

    One word of caution: Just because you withdraw funds to your bank account, and wait until they appear, doesn't protect you from chargebacks. eBay will just try to withdraw the funds back from your bank account in the event of a chargeback...or failing that, it will hit every credit card you have on file etc. Of course you can always challenge the debit with your credit card company...but that's a whole other story (has anyone read every piece of the small print you're shown when you sign up for PayPal? I suspect they've covered that base somewhere in there). I've heard the only real way to protect yourself from a chargeback is to shut your account down...but even that takes a number of business days to complete, so you could always be stung in the meantime and be left without the money and without a PayPal account either (which would make dealing with PayPal a lot more difficult I would imagine).

    Like I said, I've never had any problems with PayPal - mostly because I'm careful with who I deal with (lots of positive feedback on eBay? long time user of the forum? I google street view their address and make sure it exists, I google their name, I see if they're listed in the phone book, etc.) but my gut instinct is that it's just a matter of time. The buyer has a lot of protection - especially if they have paid with a credit card - the seller much less so.

    eBay tip: It's important that the buyer leaves positive feedback - once they've done that it's much harder for them to initiate a chargeback. That said, if they don't there's not a huge deal you can do. I'm still waiting on 4 feedbacks for some high value items, until they appear I'm a little nervous.

    eBay tip: Make sure you allow returns - even if it's just the minimum 3 day term. Once the buyer accepts delivery (always get proof of delivery) it again makes a chargeback that much more difficult if you've given them the opportunity to return the goods no questions asked, and they pass on it.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    I have bought and sold many items all over the world. In many cases I have used Paypal. I have done 100's (maybe even over a 1000) transactions online since 1994 (yes, from when Marc Andreessen introduced Mosaic) and sofar I have been ripped off only once. The rip-off occurred with a fellow countryman and even Paypal could not reclaim my money.

    I also often make wire transfers to US accounts. This is often necessary since we don't have a system of using checks. We can but it is very rare and quite hard to do, banks over here think you are nuts since it is so much easier to do a wire transfer.

    All my dealings abroad were nice and satisfactory. I once had someone send me a HC50-110 via UPS without having me pay him first. The only message I got was, 'if you are happy with it, please pay me, if not please do return'. Now this is rare, frankly I don't do this often too but on occasion I have.

    I think my main message is to first find out who you are dealing with. This is much more important than how you pay them. Most people are nice to deal with. If someone really wants to rip you off they will regardless on how you pay them. Best to stay clear from people that make you feel uncomfortable in any way. Fortunately most people are pretty decent which is kind of unbelievable when going over all the horror stories that are floating around.
    Last edited by Dustbak; 30th June 2011 at 12:52.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    I think my main message is to first find out who you are dealing with. This is much more important than how you pay them. Most people are nice to deal with. If someone really wants to rip you off they will regardless on how you pay them. Best to stay clear from people that make you feel uncomfortable in any way. Fortunately most people are pretty decent which is kind of unbelievable when going over all the horror stories that are floating around.
    I could not agree more with this, and this is the reason feedback is so important. Most of us will 'go the extra mile' when we know that our reputation is at stake.

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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    I could not agree more with this, and this is the reason feedback is so important. Most of us will 'go the extra mile' when we know that our reputation is at stake.
    It is important to distinguish between Ebay and PayPal. Paypal is for payments and receiving payments. It has been bullit proof in my experience. It does freeze funds - if deal is over Ebay - until buyer has received and sometimes longer in order to give buyer time to complain if necessary, or until buyer give good feedback when sold on Ebay. When sold on forums, PayPal gives no assurance, it is merely a transaction.

    Ebay provides buyer protection (international) and fundamental is that buyer receives goods and inspect it. I had one problem with an item I purchased from Belgium of all places and it was a pina to get the refund because Belgian FedEx frank messed up my return and I had to spend many hours to reach Ebay in States and Belgian FedEx to resolve. However, I did get my refund and it was for around 1600 usd; a large format lens that had camera side of barrel severely scratched when it had been sold as mint. This is however cases where the buyer protection comes in to protect. PayPal is solely for handling the transactions, and as such in my experience a brilliant tool.

    Selling and buying here on forums provide no assurances, except by being known and reputable and selling to those who are reputable and/or those that give impression of trust. Simply... thus less chance to not be treated honorably. My experience of what I sold and purchased here and on LuLa those has been very good. There are alot of good folks here, and usually the ones with more than a mere few of posts!

    In my opinion HONEST, reputation, trust and quick shipping and payments are the keys to any transactions. Did I mention honest? Will have some more of my gear up for sale within 24 hours... all mint, except any disclaimers I make. That is the only way I know how to deal... honest and frank. Many do same, albeit not all.

    Regards
    Anders

  17. #17
    ianbrother
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    Re: Can you trust Paypal for overseas sales

    yes i have done a few transactions using paypal, its quite safe and easy to say the least

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