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Thread: The end of tolerances reached ?

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    And while we discuss the future of possible camera concepts Sony has built it - Nex 7 for 1199 $:

    http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/24/s...er-1199-price/

    Looks like a small version of our HCam.(or does our HCam look like a large version of a nex ?).

    much more technical data you´ll find here:

    http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/blo...08/sony-nex-7/ or use the google translate version
    http://translate.google.de/translate...x-7%2F&act=url

    Thanks Sony for proof of concept - the future is here (december 2011).

    And I cannot resist adding this: The history of sony comes from a background of consumer orientation for innovative electronics.

    regards
    Stefan
    It would be interesting to know the full statistical shift that has taken place in the photographic world in terms of users and buyers. The homogenization of image making, proliferation of image making tools, and access to viewing outlets like social sites and image hosting sites has obviously been a game changing occurrence.

    So, for example as you mention above, Sony MUST innovate upwards as the consumer masses gravitate to the immediacy of smart phones like the iPhone5 with its 8 meg camera and the next Android SPs that most likely will jump that even further.

    In the coming year, the mid-range area of cameras from all makers will be swarming with "must haves" and "can't live withouts" ... yet it begs the question ... to what end?

    The paradigm shift I see is a lowering of standards in favor of "it's good enough and more fun to play with" ... camera as entertainment and unbridled immediacy, less of a tool of personal expression. In short, the balance between the art of photography and the tools has gone off kilter IMO. In general, the attribute of "imagination" has become the domain of the tool maker and less so of the image maker.

    I think we now firmly reside in a "photographic technocracy" where the engineers, scientists and gamers are in control of the directional aspects of this field of creative endeavor, and for one main reason ... money, and lots of it. The consuming masses are like a wood chipper on steroids .... churning through innovation as fast as it's offered, then clamoring for more and more ... while producing more and more mediocrity. Nothing new there, just a LOT more of it .... a titanic Tsunami of swirling homogeneous white bread that has risen the image noise level to a deafening level.

    What I've observed is that those with imagination, ideas and inspiration continue to have it, and those who don't, still don't. No matter how high the technology goes or how smart the device may be, the people who would be better off immersing themselves in the art of image making, are drowning in technology that dominates their time, energy and intelligence ... not to mention that all important bank account the makers love to tap into, and super-glue that tap into place like some sort of parasite that never quite kills its host but feeds on it endlessly

    -Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 24th August 2011 at 05:08.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    What I've observed is that those with imagination, ideas and inspiration continue to have it, and those who don't, still don't.

    -Marc

    For gods sake : YES and this will stay like it forever. The only problem is that the industry tries to tell people that if they buy a 80Mpix or 200 Mpix or 10 Images per sec or Stainless Steel <GGG> body or a 1000mm lens or a 8 mm lens your pictures will be soooo much better.
    Wrong - you will get better pictures because you have better ideas and nothing else. If those with the better ideas use the better tools the ones without the ideas look at this and think - oh if I can get these tools my pictures will also be like theirs.........

    well - totally wrong ! But Psst - don´t say this too loud. ;.)))

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    For gods sake : YES and this will stay like it forever. The only problem is that the industry tries to tell people that if they buy a 80Mpix or 200 Mpix or 10 Images per sec or Stainless Steel <GGG> body or a 1000mm lens or a 8 mm lens your pictures will be soooo much better.
    Wrong - you will get better pictures because you have better ideas and nothing else. If those with the better ideas use the better tools the ones without the ideas look at this and think - oh if I can get these tools my pictures will also be like theirs.........

    well - totally wrong ! But Psst - don´t say this too loud. ;.)))

    Regards
    Stefan
    ... or a 24 meg Sony NEX or A77, or satellite controlled Nikon subject locator for the compositionally lazy .... etc. etc.

    "Sorry Dave, I can't take that photograph. It doesn't conform to the ISO standards for international tastes as set forth by the Sonikon Corporation board of engineers". - HAL 9000

    "Go #@*% yourself HAL!" - Dr. Dave Bowman




    -Marc

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ... or a 24 meg Sony NEX or A77, or satellite controlled Nikon subject locator for the compositionally lazy .... etc. etc.

    "Sorry Dave, I can't take that photograph. It doesn't conform to the ISO standards for international tastes as set forth by the Sonikon Corporation board of engineers". - HAL 9000

    "Go #@*% yourself HAL!" - Dr. Dave Bowman




    -Marc
    Thanks for the morning chuckle!

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    As about 60-70 %(maybe more) of humans on this planet are under 30 I guess this makes your choice a pretty personal and elite one, whereas other elites (mentioned before) will be the Apple geeks (I also have some of this ) or the hiphop generation (already over 25 now!) or the realist party infotainment generation (the actual young 15-25 ones).
    Depends on which "world" of this planet you are speaking of:


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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    The dumbing down to make these idiot proof is killing me. The lost art is learning how to make the gear work for you not take over the control of your brain. Technology is great but only in the hands of people that take control of it. Not the other way around. I like turning stuff off so I can do it. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi Dough

    yes - but I think the photography I am speaking of is also happening on smartphones in India , China, Afrika and Brasil etc.pp.

    And wait for some years and maybe the develloped and undevelloped statistics may switch also. Brasil has definitely a lot more young people and also a steady economic growth of around 1,5-2,5% for the last 10 years (exception 2009 see here http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/gdp-growth )
    whereas countries like Japan and UK (not to speak of the US nobody knows what will happen next) have none now........

    Regards
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 24th August 2011 at 05:40. Reason: more precise
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Demon Cam Iphone App: Turn your face into a demon zombie
    http://fstoppers.com/demon-cam-the-m...app-video-ever

    The blonde actress in the BTS video is nice but where exactly does all of this end? How much longer until somebody makes an Ansel Adams app that turns ordinary sunset pictures into Moonrise over Hernandez?

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    where exactly does all of this end?
    The War in Hipstamatic has been making the rounds for the last few weeks:
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...in_hipstamatic

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    [QUOTE=Mike M; ... but where exactly does all of this end? [/QUOTE]

    It doesn't.

    The democratization of photography has just begun.

    The image making tools will exponentially proliferate as smart phones explode across the face of the planet. Think everyone has one already? Not even close! But billions more will in the not to distant future.

    With that, the hosting outlet sites will also explode, and people will use the universal language of imagery to communicate, express ideas, and foster homogeneous change. A "united white bread world" will not be accomplished politically, but instead socially ... and photography will be its voice ... which is already well on its way.

    Consider this ...

    This visual cacophony will become absolutely overwhelming (which I think it already has). Look for any given subject matter, and it isn't the individual that stands out, it is a thousand individuals with the one piece of good work they've shot, X 1,000 other individuals. This creates a truly intimidating wall of images that makes old concepts of individual mastery and talent more difficult to realize. It is the Borg concept coming to life before our very eyes.

    As I mentioned, the engineers and gamers are now in charge ... their mission is proliferation and uniformity, their goal is profit and control. All things, for all people, available everywhere. This juggernaut is just getting going, and it is unstoppable.

    The question then becomes ...

    What's the individual to do? What is the outlet for one's work? Join the Borg or go your own way? Is resistance futile? At best, going one's own way will foster small enclaves of rebels who pat one another on their backs like we do here on GETdpi as we slowly become homogenized in our own white bread way.

    What does the professional do? Will there even be a photographic profession in 10 years? Making money from photography has always been a bit difficult, however I don't think we have even seen the tip of the iceberg regarding this issue yet. While the image making craftsman dwindles, the roar of profitable makers and proliferators making Trillions of dollars is rising so fast we cannot even began to comprehend it.

    My sunny forcast for the day ...

    -Marc

    BTW, I think I'll sink my photo gear budget into cell phone tower company stocks

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    But Marc

    there are also many more good photos taken worldwide than ever before.
    I remember very well my excitement 30-20 years back when I was visiting Photokina and everytime one of my first walks was to the Polaroid both. There many of the best showed their creative stuff which was so much different from the "standard" nice images showcased in most photomagazines at that time. There was the Multimedia Hasselblad Multivisions definitely worth looking at, there was World press award as guests on the photokina and some more. But this was only happening all 2 years.
    Today if I want to find outstanding images I go to........Flickr! I can do this any time, I have found some ways of taking up Ariadnes wool yarn and following favourites, most interesting or special groups you will find some of the best images you have ever seen - tons of creativity and lots of brain food for you and your future imaging.
    For me This is the most positive experience in Photography since a long time. This may be frightening at first (especially for Pro Photographers who can directly see this tsunami of content facing you) but actually will free you to understand that you - and nobody else - need to make YOUR Images that are in YOUR head, let it out and join this wave of creativity.
    No envy, no fear, just joy to see how much creativity this mankind can produce, we may seem doomed, we poison the planet and ruin the future of our children, but hey - something will stay and this is this multifold and endless and varying view to our world.

    Too positive ? I don´t know, but I think that´s all we have.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    If I want inspirational imagery these days I look at graphic designers, especially on Behance:
    http://www.behance.net/

    Having said that, the Internet is generally nothing more than an oversized town square ruled by mob mentality and dominated by the lowest common denominator. We are all drowning in mediocrity. However, the gems you find make it worthwhile (sometimes).

    There is a recent feature-length documentary that addresses creativity and the "democratization" of creativity in the digital age: Press Pause Play.
    http://www.presspauseplay.com/

    Go watch it, it's intelligent and well-made, although I disagree with some of the opinions expressed in it. It is also slightly focused on the music industry, but still interesting nonetheless.
    Last edited by cng; 26th August 2011 at 04:43.

  13. #113
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    CNG - thank you very very much for this link -

    AMAZING !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan

    Quote Originally Posted by cng View Post
    The War in Hipstamatic has been making the rounds for the last few weeks:
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...in_hipstamatic
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    But Marc

    there are also many more good photos taken worldwide than ever before.
    I remember very well my excitement 30-20 years back when I was visiting Photokina and everytime one of my first walks was to the Polaroid both. There many of the best showed their creative stuff which was so much different from the "standard" nice images showcased in most photomagazines at that time. There was the Multimedia Hasselblad Multivisions definitely worth looking at, there was World press award as guests on the photokina and some more. But this was only happening all 2 years.
    Today if I want to find outstanding images I go to........Flickr! I can do this any time, I have found some ways of taking up Ariadnes wool yarn and following favourites, most interesting or special groups you will find some of the best images you have ever seen - tons of creativity and lots of brain food for you and your future imaging.
    For me This is the most positive experience in Photography since a long time. This may be frightening at first (especially for Pro Photographers who can directly see this tsunami of content facing you) but actually will free you to understand that you - and nobody else - need to make YOUR Images that are in YOUR head, let it out and join this wave of creativity.
    No envy, no fear, just joy to see how much creativity this mankind can produce, we may seem doomed, we poison the planet and ruin the future of our children, but hey - something will stay and this is this multifold and endless and varying view to our world.

    Too positive ? I don´t know, but I think that´s all we have.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Not sure I can agree with you Stefan. However, in a way you prove my point

    It all seems to be far to conventional for me. I don't see improvement or revolutionary ways of seeing, I see conformity to some sort of "competent" world standard.

    That standard may have advanced to some eyes (mostly in competency), but it also is fast becoming homogenized into a grey mass of uniformity fostered by tonnage, availability and access. The revolution is in getting the stuff out there, not in what is getting out there. What is getting out there is generally and relentlessly vanilla at an ever increasing rate.

    IMO, this affects tastes in photography where the conformed is lauded, and the truly fresh is ignored. The masses are now doing the voting, and they vote for that which they feel is most like what they THINK they are capable of, because it is ladened with hope for them.

    I don't see proliferation as offering up brain food. I see it as a form of creative poison to be avoided. I look often, and see nothing inspiring like the first time I saw some of the innovators of photography work which rocked my world. To me this is a clear indication of lack of rather than growth of stunning new ways of thinking or seeing. It seems to me to be more of the same, except now it is a LOT more of the same.

    Professional photography hasn't been immune to this either. As an Executive Creative Director of a major ad agency, I watched the bleeding death of creativity in commercial works over a period of years. If I received one empty portfolio or DVD a week I received 20 ... all competent and boringly uniform. Probably as much the fault of the ad industry as it is the fault of the photographic industry. The great inspirational Art Directors of advertising and editorial have gone the way of the Dodo.

    What all this does do for me is inspire rebellion. While I may be a bit long in the tooth to do it myself ... I can grab fresh minds before they are polluted and as an art director at heart, try to instill that rebellion in them. Someone or a bunch of someones will break this log jam ... they always do.

    It all feels so familiar. Classic painting trudges on and on until a Paul Cezanne shows up. Photography mimics painting until a Bresson shows up. THAT is the hope I have!

    -Marc

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Marc

    sorry for my frank words, but could it be, this creative job is getting you into the "been there, seen this, had this" bored art directors cycle mode ?
    Maybe you are too strict , believe me there is plenty of meat on the bone.

    look here:
    http://whodesignedit.net/photography...michael-wesely

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Gursky

    http://www.kage-mikrofotografie.de/en/kage/

    and so on.......

    these topenders proof there is still something new every day.

    I also see this more from a point of - what makes my photography correspond to other people. If they do not understand what I show , it may be pretty lonesome to be elite.

    Please no insult , I have been there too ! But I changed my mind. It´s not the others who fail - it´s me who is not looking closely.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Marc

    sorry for my frank words, but could it be, this creative job is getting you into the "been there, seen this, had this" bored art directors cycle mode ?
    Maybe you are too strict , believe me there is plenty of meat on the bone.

    look here:
    http://whodesignedit.net/photography...michael-wesely

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Gursky

    http://www.kage-mikrofotografie.de/en/kage/

    and so on.......

    these topenders proof there is still something new every day.

    I also see this more from a point of - what makes my photography correspond to other people. If they do not understand what I show , it may be pretty lonesome to be elite.

    Please no insult , I have been there too ! But I changed my mind. It´s not the others who fail - it´s me who is not looking closely.

    Regards
    Stefan
    Thanks for the links, and platitudes. It actually is helpful to get this out in a pleasant and civilized discussion.

    I don't think it has to do with elitism. Lonely? Perhaps. The breakout creative people were hardly viewed as elite until the rest of the world caught up with them ... mostly due to other vigilant people who actually could see their promise of a new vision. Photography has a rich tradition of this sort of synergism.

    I'm also not saying that no one is doing anything worthy (who the heck am I to say that?). Obviously, there are those striving and doing.

    My point is that they are buried under a ton of garbage. You see the pile of horse crap and say "Hey, there is a pony in here someplace!" I say "The Pony is IN the pile of crap, so put on your boots and gas mask and dig through the mountain of manure." Instead we tend to pour perfume on the pile and call it something other than manure.

    Plus, the pile doubles every day, and how much of it can you stand?

    Am I jaded through over-exposure? Maybe. That is quite okay with me because if I've learned anything in all these years of creating, and mentoring other creative people, it is ... that any personal creative leap forward is often preceded by a gross dissatisfaction in what exists.

    Rejection of the existing is a very strong pattern easily proved by the history of art. I believe it was Jasper Johns that came to a similar epiphany, and destroyed all of his work up until that time. Something I've suggested to a couple of photographers who have enormous potential to rock the world of photography with their unique eye on humanity, and expressions of divergent ideas ... but they are drowning in approval seeking from the masses ... a natural inclination of many creative people I might add. Very few quite get over hoping their Mom will tape their drawing to the 'fridge.

    So, if the majority doesn't get it ... you may be on the right track. The trick is to get the stuff in front of the right discriminating eyes, not the world at large. That comes later.

    I do agree that it need not be the failings of the photo universe, but more a failing of the individual to look closely. As a young artist, I forced myself to learn about Japanese art simply because I wasn't all that fond of it. Now it is a favorite. People don't know what they like, they like what they know.

    Trouble is, I have looked and looked and find little to stimulate my humanity and love of aesthetic advancements that challenge preconceived subjectivity.

    Far too many think that change comes from the evolving technology ... yet nothing has really changed. The more it changes the more it stays the same ... now in heaping helpings.

    Perhaps we need to endure a neo-dadaists photographic movement so we can get on with it afterwards.

    Anyway, good discussion.

    -Marc

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    >We are all drowning in mediocrity.

    Likely true but we may not agree what is "mediocrity" and what is not.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi Marc

    compliment back - good people hanging around here.

    Uh- where to start - the pile of crap maybe needs to be there - it is neccessary to taste the unpleasant to dig for the truffel.
    Hasn´t this been the case always - just the media and frequency changed ? I remember a sentence about a bluessinger who cannot sing the blues if he does not feel the pain, so maybe the rejection of a commercialized asthetics maybe the birth of real art ? So NO ART without CRAP ?

    The dadaists were destroying the logical context of the medium using senseless fractions to create art, I think this fits very well in this discussion......;-)))

    The photographic medium is dissolving now into Film/Video/Imaging/CGI
    , the fractions collide in the internet and leave many people helpless and flattened. The need to have some orientation on aesthetics is just normal,
    social medium like Flickr is perfect to read the mind of "the temporary stream" from the socialised to the artsy the whole spectrum is there.
    This is what I like most. It is the REAL MOMA - the whole noise is part of it, like a beethoven symphony with plenty of instruments. But you still can hear the melody-better the chaos makes the melody.

    I think this is the really interesting part why I am looking at this, from Mobile phone images to videos, ads, repros and family/baby pictures.
    Did you ever try to repeat a simple and well known word so often that it starts to become phonetic-loosing it´s meaning ? I try to do this with these images and then suddenly something amazing happens- there is a lot of really valuable story telling content in this, maybe not in the single picture but in the whole stream.........

    ;-)

    regards
    Stefan


    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    My point is that they are buried under a ton of garbage. You see the pile of horse crap and say "Hey, there is a pony in here someplace!" I say "The Pony is IN the pile of crap, so put on your boots and gas mask and dig through the mountain of manure." Instead we tend to pour perfume on the pile and call it something other than manure.

    Plus, the pile doubles every day, and how much of it can you stand?

    So, if the majority doesn't get it ... you may be on the right track.

    Trouble is, I have looked and looked and find little to stimulate my humanity and love of aesthetic advancements that challenge preconceived subjectivity.

    Far too many think that change comes from the evolving technology ... yet nothing has really changed. The more it changes the more it stays the same ... now in heaping helpings.

    Perhaps we need to endure a neo-dadaists photographic movement so we can get on with it afterwards.

    Anyway, good discussion.

    -Marc
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >We are all drowning in mediocrity.

    Likely true but we may not agree what is "mediocrity" and what is not.
    As they say ... "There in lies the rub."

    -Marc

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    I think Fotografz is right. Digital integration is building a global leviathan where everything is mediocre and homogenized. Democratic access is destroying the specialized roles that were necessary for individuality to exist.

    The specialist is being replaced by the role-player (you-can-be-a-pro). Real expertise is being replaced by virtual simulation (DIY). Individuals are powerless while alone so they must form groups in order to survive (social-networking). Status within groups is determined by resemblances, strict adherence to customs, and loyalty to archetypes (genres-niches). Any deviation from standard practice is considered aberrant and treated as a threat to group cohesion (STFU-troll).

    Young people carry less predispositions and this makes them better able to adopt new technologies. But each new medium creates a new public which means that entire generations become obsolete with the introduction of new product cycles. Today's twenty-somethings are tomorrow's thirty-somethings being replaced by today's teenagers. The younger generations aren't going to conquer the world. On the contrary, they are just another generation in a cycle waiting for it's own time of planned obsolescence.

    Each successive generation that integrates into the digital leviathan becomes just another copy-of-a-copy and imitation-of-an-imitation. Eventually, they lose all ability to distinguish between a simulation and the real thing. The public already can't tell the difference between a role-player and an expert. The final result is always an obliteration of knowledge.

  21. #121
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    I usually try to avoid conversations of this flavor, but really have things changed?

    I've spent my entire photographic and artistic life ( yrs worth ) trying to both stand out and conform.

    Lets not confuse the issues of art vs product. Art is its own market: an attempt to stand out and be recognized for unique vision where the image itself is the product for consumption. As an artist whether with paint, charcoal, sculpture or photograph; it is creativity unleashed to produce something memorable on its own merit. To be viewed and appreciated for itself.

    Then there is photography used for purpose. The work should be crafted beautifully but in the end has a use other than recognition of the image itself.
    Some images for journalism are not perfectly crafted but are used to impart information within context of a situation. An AP image is pulled because the photographer lessened the impact a stray shadow made in the image and is punished by banning. Craftsmanship was secondary to the products purpose.

    Ad photography while wonderful has the purpose of showing the product in a way to attract commerce.

    Architectural photography while stunning is used to sell buildings and designs of others.

    We have to stand out in these situations with a "style" to attract customers but in the end conform to our style as this becomes what is expected.

    In this current world of "huge piles of manure" the better visions and craftsmanship will further stand out. instead of the "crap" analogy lets use a field of flowers.
    In this field there are hundreds of purple flowers, they blend together in a sea of a single colour. Add a perfect purple flower to the others and it will disappear despite its perfection. We can stand up and cry "can't you see how much better this flower is?" and the only one who will see it are fellow flower aficionados and the rest just see purple.
    It is our JOB to plant a yellow flower, and not just any yellow flower but one that will allow the rest to notice it, look closely, and finally understand the difference.

    It is going to be difficult to stand out in our future as photographers. Anyone with the cash can purchase a camera so automatic that there is a ridiculous amount of images that are perfectly exposed, clean, sharp (enough) and most importantly; boring.

    The end of tolerance if reached will be a blessing to those with vision. We play the role of using light, imagination, sheer will and personality. Those with the gift can take the new technologies to create what others never could. We stand out by using this vision.

    And then we go to work. Not everyone is prepared to work. Work is taking something you enjoy, doing it everyday whether you feel like it or not. An understanding that there are no days off for this kind of work. Not if you are doing it for a living. All the wannabes fade away.

    I admire those that persevere through and continue to love their craft while working at it.

    Just my very long winded two bits.

  22. #122
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi Marc

    compliment back - good people hanging around here.

    Uh- where to start - the pile of crap maybe needs to be there - it is neccessary to taste the unpleasant to dig for the truffel.
    Hasn´t this been the case always - just the media and frequency changed ? I remember a sentence about a bluessinger who cannot sing the blues if he does not feel the pain, so maybe the rejection of a commercialized asthetics maybe the birth of real art ? So NO ART without CRAP ?

    The dadaists were destroying the logical context of the medium using senseless fractions to create art, I think this fits very well in this discussion......;-)))

    The photographic medium is dissolving now into Film/Video/Imaging/CGI
    , the fractions collide in the internet and leave many people helpless and flattened. The need to have some orientation on aesthetics is just normal,
    social medium like Flickr is perfect to read the mind of "the temporary stream" from the socialised to the artsy the whole spectrum is there.
    This is what I like most. It is the REAL MOMA - the whole noise is part of it, like a beethoven symphony with plenty of instruments. But you still can hear the melody-better the chaos makes the melody.

    I think this is the really interesting part why I am looking at this, from Mobile phone images to videos, ads, repros and family/baby pictures.
    Did you ever try to repeat a simple and well known word so often that it starts to become phonetic-loosing it´s meaning ? I try to do this with these images and then suddenly something amazing happens- there is a lot of really valuable story telling content in this, maybe not in the single picture but in the whole stream.........

    ;-)

    regards
    Stefan
    Stefan, in the spirit of sharing I thought to pinpoint a few less obvious photographers that had/have the stuff of change and challenge IMO. There are hundreds if you have the patience to search ... even on the web they are hard to find sometimes ... and without knowing them, almost impossible to find

    One is the French fashion photographer Sarah Moon. As young Art Director I was fascinated with her work ... which I would now see as a bit more cute or precious than I did then. But she evolved and evolved and I am still fascinated by her later vision and courage. Of interest, except for a few shots, she disavowed and rejected her own earlier work. Not everyone's cup of tea, but she did have an impact on a number of those who came after her.

    Another is Duane Michals. Known to more photographers than Ms. Moon, but still an interesting photographer to me mostly because of his haunting sequential still photography. It had a great impact on me as I moved into working with motion work for TV commercials and films later in my career.

    A third is a dear friend of mine that I think is an undiscovered talent just on the verge of breaking out of obscurity. Irakly Shanidze is a Soviet born Georgian with a wicked sense of humor and incredible level of intelligence and talent. Irakly is an example of being buried by today's tonnage of horse manure. IMO Irakly IS the pony.

    There are more, but three is enough.

    -Marc

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi Marc

    I knew Sarah Moon and Duane Michaels. Irakly Shanidze was new to me but he also has this certain something - you are right. You are more interested into People ? This is good and positive as well. I am more a guy of pure form, in the Bauhaus tradition, Man Ray, Moholy Nagy, Oscar Schlemmer, Umbo, Walter Wolf, and of course Irving Penn - the Master. Maybe a very german thing, but also valid on Japanese contemporary photography (ah you know Shinzo Maeda´s japanese garden images ? ***********).

    If you ask me about my favourite Peopleographers today there´s Jim Rakete, did you see his last exhibition on the Photokina ? There is Herlinde Koelbl (she lives in Munich - you know her "Jewish Portraits"?) and again I would say - Flickr - there are thousands if not tens of thousands of extremly talented people from all over the planet.

    Nobody knows them, they have followers on Flickr but this does not mean there is any success or commercial exhibition on their side. I alone have already found several hundred of these for my favourites - the list is endless.

    some of them are here on the forum, others are totally integrated into their normal life and doing this only as a hobby (plenty of very talented women on Flickr, housewives, young girls from Japan, Sekretaries, Students......) . it is even more interesting if you watch their complete portfolios - do they post everything every day or do they select to maybe 20 images which they change regularly ? How do they represent their stream with some limited changes and do stand out as well ? What favourites do they chose, are they connected or lone riders, do they comment or just post.......

    extremly interesting ! The whole thing is art - a conceptual huge loupe to todays photography and the world.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    People learn from other people and you combine this with easier access to photographic tools and distribution ( the net) and you get what we are getting - an explosion of image making a super nova!

    However - within this great cacophony - there are many many tribes and cultures and sub cultures.. there is more and more fragmentation going on - it is a very interesting time to be alive..

    I think it is fantastic that the major media companies each year lose more and more audience and eye ball time - you see this expressed in fragmentation of design/fashion/music/ - in everything no one country or culture is going to be able to promote their particular cultural or artistic imperialism and stomp oer or control creativity and stamp or legitimise one form of creativity or art over another - I think we are witnessing the death off romantic mythology associated with false notions of 'great art'..

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post

    I think it is fantastic that the major media companies each year lose more and more audience and eye ball time - you see this expressed in fragmentation of design/fashion/music/ - in everything no one country or culture is going to be able to promote their particular cultural or artistic imperialism and stomp oer or control creativity and stamp or legitimise one form of creativity or art over another - I think we are witnessing the death off romantic mythology associated with false notions of 'great art'..
    Peter this is exactly the point why the photographers business in the classic sense will become more and more difficult. The large publishing houses are struggling to adopt for the new media - with discussions and even suing Apple and vice versa - Apple is taking command of the platform and the iTunes store is certainly the largest publishing house of all times already. But Apple is not a publisher, the content is not their business, on the other hand they do censoring- in a very american way, sexuality, political and religious controversial stuff is filtered, there is no more space for this on this platform. This is certainly not by any bad intention it´s just the american way of easy going and not causing any turbulences that may be a hindrance for the marketing and sales numbers.

    So yes, in this case this is dangerous, we need publishers who are controversial and the need to have access to media that get recognition.
    Of course anybody can get a website up and running publishing the varioust conspiracy stuff, or worlds end theories and the most stupid thing possible, but this will not reach a "noiselevel" that reaches the normal citizen and in this case this is good.
    But for culture, this may be lethal. Interesting contrary movement actually: crowd funding for Photography projects.

    http://www.photoshelter.com/mkt/rese...graphy-project

    so in this case the users of the medium decide the content that they want to see. Very interesting and a true socialist postulation of art for the people, revealing the true structure of the world and the people . The question is only : what kind of projects will be funded ?
    PC - non PC, controversial or mainstream ?
    Do we really want to see an average art, conforming to the standard tastes and habits of our neighbours ?

    So again I think the only way to get real artistic freedom is in the nonprofit, truely amateur spaces of Facebook and other platforms where no limitations exist for a worldwide distribution and immediate availability although covered with a basic noise of plentyness/flooding of content.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Interesting discussion guys...it has given me food for thought about a subject I don't generally ponder. A pleasant break from gear talk.

    @Stefan...kudos on your command of the english language.

  27. #127
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi David

    Thanks - and compliment back to you native english guys(and girls) on the internet, you tought me my english during the last 20 years of discussions.

    The discussion in this thread is indeed a bit special as the gear we are using is only an expression of the market we are working in. There are already plenty of hobbyists using these DMFB´s but I am deducting the theory from the usage of the professional photographer who needs to finance the gear with his work. And indeed the gear represents a limit we are reaching here as well as this is corresponding to the media theory, sociological context and professional difficulties which seem to indicate that something is develloping into another direction.

    The major amount of Pro work today is already done with 35mm DSLR´s.
    These are getting into the 30-40 Mpix range now (very soon). with this format factor and technology they are reaching a border also which kept companies like Canon and Nikon from doing this faster/earlier.
    The concept of a mirror for the finder comes to an end now, Sony launches an EVF with 1024 pix/2Mbyte res that should be close to eyes natural resolution limitation. The next generation of Pro bodies will certainly be without mirrors using only EVF´s. Then this means the classic format sizes will probably be wiped out, see Leica S2 chip. A 60/80/100 Mpix Canon/Nikon of 2014/15 could be a larger size than 35mm today - meaning they will get into MF territory. This should alarm Phase and Hasselblad , because as soon as these Gorillas step into their own business the fight for the market may look pretty much predefined.
    This will also mean that the classic mechanical concept of viewcameras will be ended because neither Canon nor Nikon (and Sony a third player) will take care of this.
    The MF makers do just have one chance: unite, make a valid and strong strategy whitepaper, like the Four Third/micro four third standard, see here:

    http://www.four-thirds.org/en/fourth...hitepaper.html
    http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/whitepaper.html

    and lauch an initiative to protect their future business. Otherwise I predict they will disappear. Not because the products are bad. No - because their market will be taken from the low end migrating into their customer structure plus the market which devellops into an adoption of the common tools around (which we have discussed here earlier in the thread).

    The Alpas, Arcas, Cambos etc of this industry need to combine their efforts with this initiative and get electronic and modular , taking basic support for the needs of the construction of electronically adopted 21st century gear or they will also disappear.

    The time frame for this all is pretty tight - the devellopment will be happening latest within the next 5 years, so the MF industry better gets going or it is too late for them.

    Think about it, this is the only logical consequence of what we have discussed here in this thread.

    regards
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 28th August 2011 at 01:11.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  28. #128
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi David

    Thanks - and compliment back to you native english guys(and girls) on the internet, you tought me my english during the last 20 years of discussions.

    The discussion in this thread is indeed a bit special as the gear we are using is only an expression of the market we are working in. There are already plenty of hobbyists using these DMFB´s but I am deducting the theory from the usage of the professional photographer who needs to finance the gear with his work. And indeed the gear represents a limit we are reaching here as well as this is corresponding to the media theory, sociological context and professional difficulties which seem to indicate that something is develloping into another direction.

    The major amount of Pro work today is already done with 35mm DSLR´s.
    These are getting into the 30-40 Mpix range now (very soon). with this format factor and technology they are reaching a border also which kept companies like Canon and Nikon from doing this faster/earlier.
    The concept of a mirror for the finder comes to an end now, Sony launches an EVF with 1024 pix/2Mbyte res that should be close to eyes natural resolution limitation. The next generation of Pro bodies will certainly be without mirrors using only EVF´s. Then this means the classic format sizes will probably be wiped out, see Leica S2 chip. A 60/80/100 Mpix Canon/Nikon of 2014/15 could be a larger size than 35mm today - meaning they will get into MF territory. This should alarm Phase and Hasselblad , because as soon as these Gorillas step into their own business the fight for the market may look pretty much predefined.
    This will also mean that the classic mechanical concept of viewcameras will be ended because neither Canon nor Nikon (and Sony a third player) will take care of this.
    The MF makers do just have one chance: unite, make a valid and strong strategy whitepaper, like the Four Third/micro four third standard, see here:

    http://www.four-thirds.org/en/fourth...hitepaper.html
    http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/whitepaper.html

    and lauch an initiative to protect their future business. Otherwise I predict they will disappear. Not because the products are bad. No - because their market will be taken from the low end migrating into their customer structure plus the market which devellops into an adoption of the common tools around (which we have discussed here earlier in the thread).

    The Alpas, Arcas, Cambos etc of this industry need to combine their efforts with this initiative and get electronic and modular , taking basic support for the needs of the construction of electronically adopted 21st century gear or they will also disappear.

    The time frame for this all is pretty tight - the devellopment will be happening latest within the next 5 years, so the MF industry better gets going or it is too late for them.

    Think about it, this is the only logical consequence of what we have discussed here in this thread.

    regards
    Stefan
    Like it or not, I think some of your predictions will come true Stefan.

    The innovations are, and will continue to come from companies that use technology to bust the strangle hold that Canon and Nikon have had on the industry ... like newer player Sony, and Fuji. If you can't beat them DON"T join them : -)

    If the giants don't pony up fairly soon, they are the ones that should be worried more than Hasselblad and Phase One. Also, it should be taken into consideration that the consumer point & shoot "cash cow" that funded these photographic giants is already evaporating, and will soon be history ... it is merely a generation or two of cell phones away. iPhone, Blackberry and Droid will be the most ubiquitously used cameras on Earth, if they aren't already. I've noted that migration at weddings where less and less P&S are in guests hands, and more and more they are using their smart phones.

    I think technology has impacted the professional market ... but not necessarily in the manner you describe. In fact it's been underway for quite some time. It was the digitalization of virtually all communications that forced the demise of film, not photographic technology... which actually lagged for to long. Certain industries, like the multi-billion dollar wedding and portrait industry migrated to smaller format before digital was anywhere near capable enough ... because consumer demand changed literally over-night in favor of more spontaneous journalistic inspired approaches where content trumped IQ. So, it was natural that the switch over to digital would be to stuff like Digital Rebels and the like.

    The commercial communications industry began the migration to more immediate web based approaches which required far less IQ than the previous dominate medias, and is now THE dominate media outside of perhaps TV ( which I think is also on its last legs as we know it now). Even specialty photography like car work melted away from an iceberg to an ice cube in the face of CGI. It wasn't the technology that did it, it was the logistics of shooting cars that weren't even in production yet nor the details yet finalized.

    However, we also have to take into account a few factors that may mitigate all of this. Ways of viewing photographic results will not stand still and will impact the input devices. I had an interesting conversation with a player in the GPS industry yesterday, which is sinking fast due to GPS Apps for cell phones. The only way for them to survive is to exploit the weakness of the cell phone ... its size. In a few years it will be mandatory for all cars to have screens, and we all know that screen IQ is not standing still. This opens the door for ground level projections of the route you are taking (like Google street view) coupled with directional over-lays from your cell phone that's plugged into a dock. There could well be a camera in the rear AND front of every car in future.

    Plus, as more of the masses become involved in making photos, a certain growing percentage will want more than others. Shelby Lewis here on GetDpi is a prime example of this. He found a way to alter his photographic experience and moved to an RZ with a digital back. Big change for him. The more that people become "aware" of the possibilities, the more of them that will want to step up their game. Yes, some if not most will be satisfied with the pixel packed 35mm DSLRs ... but that remains to be seen yet since it all sounds good on paper, but the end of digital tolerances may be just around the corner for them. IMO, the new Sony A77 images look pretty bad as of now, so it remains to be seen what is real and what is "in theory" better.

    IMO, the market is, and will continue to grow, for MFD due to my above observation of "upward gravitational pull". Yes, a small market, but that has always been true. The constant harping about meg count as the measure will always fall on deaf ears in terms of those who know and use MFD for its larger real estate ... and their evangelism isn't in just words but instead images that prove the point to anyone with some sense of discrimination. While most will settle, a growing number will hanker for something better because the gross numbers of photographers is rising exponentially, and more cream will rise to the top. The number of photographers using MFD today would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. In a way, it separates the terms "Hobbyists" from "Enthusiasts". Enthusiasts drive this category even more than Professionals now, and that will continue to grow IMO.

    -Marc

    (The MFD reps are probably thinking to themselves ... "From your lips to God's ears, Marc")

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I've noted that migration at weddings where less and less P&S are in guests hands, and more and more they are using their smart phones.
    Ain't that the truth!
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi Marc

    You are absolutely right about smartphones - and it´s not helpful if companies like Fuji release cameras with nominal 16Mpix which have IQ which is worse than my iPhone 4 (tried this and gave the Fuji 550EXR back because the lens was a catastrophy...). In the end this may be the same redundance effect - who needs a compact camera if he "wears" his smartphone 24 hours a day ?
    Of course my guess is just that - a guess. Do Canon/Nikon/Sony move upward faster than Hasselblad and Phase can stabilize or better increase their sales numbers ?
    It also must be taken into account that already today a significant number of Backs are sold to Hobbyists, and I guess these will mostly play with this gear, as soon as the new toys seem to be more sexy they will move on.
    If the professional Photographer will stop using backs the "amateur"users will move on, because the appeal is losing it´s context then.

    As said - interesting times coming up.

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    and do you believe pixel race will save MF, I mean 160 , 200 mp ? many users want a MF camera for the big size sensor and for that 3D look, personally I'll never go to 60 80 mp , I dont need it and I dont want it
    If Hasselblad or PhaseOne can do a FF camera with 40 mp and liveview on a modern body, with 50 to 400 ISO and 256 s exposure , I shall buy it at once

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Not with these smaller micron sensors will we see a 40mpx cam FF. Reason I had to go 160 not that I need 60 mpx but only way to get FF. Now I have it I like having it so i can sell it to my clients. BTW that's working too
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by erick.boileau View Post
    If Hasselblad or PhaseOne can do a FF camera with 40 mp and liveview
    I'm with you! This would be absolutely perfect for me as well.
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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    >>>>>>and do you believe pixel race will save MF, I mean 160 , 200 mp ?>>>>>>>>>

    Eric

    definitely NOT ! We have discussed this during this thread, and this was also the starter for my headline "the end of tolerances reached" as there is a physical limit which is caused by diffraction, mechanical tolerances and the actual deficiencies of CCD´s. More like a systematic flaw because of the roots in analogue photography, which I dare to say it - must be cut completely.

    A first step could be a larger, MF version of a Sony nex 7, yes 40-60 Mpix with a nice pricetag would be very good - why I think this shows throug the course of the discussion -see in this thread here:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29629.

    Regards
    Stefan
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Not with these smaller micron sensors will we see a 40mpx cam FF. Reason I had to go 160 not that I need 60 mpx but only way to get FF. Now I have it I like having it so i can sell it to my clients. BTW that's working too
    a P45 is not FF but 1.1 with 39mp, I sold mine one year ago , there is no needs for more pixels and the quality is perfect, but the system with Hasselblad H1 is from another age

    the P25+ and Hasselblad H3D II 22 were perfect camera with crop 1.1 and 22 mp
    there is no needs of more pixels for many MF users , MF is loosing that big part of the market including myself
    If the Leica S3 has a live view and a TS lens I shall certainly go for it

  36. #136
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    >>>>>>and do you believe pixel race will save MF, I mean 160 , 200 mp ?>>>>>>>>>

    Eric

    definitely NOT ! We have discussed this during this thread, and this was also the starter for my headline "the end of tolerances reached" as there is a physical limit which is caused by diffraction, mechanical tolerances and the actual deficiencies of CCD´s. More like a systematic flaw because of the roots in analogue photography, which I dare to say it - must be cut completely.

    A first step could be a larger, MF version of a Sony nex 7, yes 40-60 Mpix with a nice pricetag would be very good - why I think this shows throug the course of the discussion -see in this thread here:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29629.

    Regards
    Stefan
    I agree totally because of diffraction but the subject was never the needs, there is generally no needs for more than 40 mp , A2 or A1 prints

    I understand that someone can need more pixels but with MF one can change the back , and actually there is no choice

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    I'm with you! This would be absolutely perfect for me as well.
    or a FF back for Arca Swiss or Alpa with 40 mp and live view and without those horribles cables !! it will be a killer

  38. #138
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by erick.boileau View Post
    or a FF back for Arca Swiss or Alpa with 40 mp and live view and without those horribles cables !! it will be a killer
    I recently went with an IQ160 but to be honest it was for the usability and superior image review technology plus full frame convenience, not for the extra pixels. I'd rather have better DR and flexible ISO support along with ever better color rendering on a full frame platform that isn't diffraction limited, brutal on lens technology with color casts, banding, uncorrectable LCCs etc. A full frame platform with big fat pixels would be perfect (of course then you get sensitivity to moire so it's never a free lunch). Give me a 30-40mp digital back with the capabilities of my Nikon D3s - the most flexible camera I've ever owned.

    With the relentless increase in resolution there is the option of downscaling the image. With the 80mp backs that means 20mp with extended ISO support - not too shabby and very useful if you need the flexibility vs just resolution. This was another reason for me to step up to a full frame platform that could offer 15mp of non AA filtered performance when I wanted something other than IS 50-200.

    As regards the cables ... I do note that you almost never see a promotional picture of a technical camera system with the sync or sync/wake cables on them. It's just not 'pretty' I suppose. I don't have a problem with the single sync cable with my Leaf or Phase One in zero latency mode, but again therein lie compromises that not everyone will accept (limited ISO & fan whine on the Leaf, heat build up & battery consumption with the Phase One backs that support it).

    It seems that we're still waiting for the next new product ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  39. #139
    Member erick.boileau's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    it will come I think

    for Moiré it doesn't matter there is also moiré in the real life with our eyes
    the cables are not very sexy but I can live with them :-)

  40. #140
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    i think the facility and common availability of the cell phone camera has sort of dumbed down the general expectations and sensitivity to high quality as well. The HQ image has a different audience, and the gap between those audiences is growing. i see this as a good thing for both groups

  41. #141
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Just got a shock - from the inventor of the original steadicam comes this:

    http://vimeo.com/17824739

    steadicam smoothee - made for iPhone !
    originally found on outbackphoto.........

    and the best is - this really works.......

    I believe we all need to rethink, toy , tool, creative is what works.

    http://www.hdslrreview.com/HDSLRreview/Steadicam.html


    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Stefan, these are great links. Thanks again for posting

    @cng...thanks for the links too. I am looking forward to seeing press pause play

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi Mike

    I know this is totally off topic (well maybe not completely as it illustrates the modular thought that is evolving with the iPhone now), but this is the next shock here - made by Fostex - a really nice audio module for the iPhone 4

    http://www.fostexinternational.com/d...ts/AR-4i.shtml

    This shows how easy it would be with an interface to extend existing technology. Tomorrows cameras must become like this, that´s for sure.
    So Ricoh´s attempt is probably a very clever one, especially with the Leica M module now. But - not very consequent as people who spent thousands on the lenses would have not bothered buying a full format chip/camera module for 2-3x the price of that small version now. Bad product placement, wrong customer research data.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 31st August 2011 at 08:23.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  44. #144
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi Mike

    I know this is totally off topic(well maybe not completely as it illustrates the modular thought that is eveolving with the iPhone now), but this is the next shock here - made by Fostex - a really nice audio module for the iPhone 4

    http://www.fostexinternational.com/d...ts/AR-4i.shtml

    This shows how easy it would be with an interface to extend existing technology. Tomorrows cameras must become like this, that´s for sure.
    So Ricoh´s attempt is probably a very clever one, especially with the Leica M module now. But - not very consequent as people who spent thousands on the lenses would have not bothered buying a full format chip/camera module for 2-3x the price of that small version now. Bad product placement, wrong customer research data.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    What is the point of this post in this thread?
    Is it just one that happens to be open?
    thanks
    -bob

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Hi Bob

    the reason this makes sense is showing the integrated interface of the iPhone is something that extends it by far over it´s original intention (whereas I think the people at Apple certainly had stuff like this in their mind - thus the SDK and the interfaces.) .

    Imagine an IQ140/160/180 with an iPhone 5 dock, maybe supporting LTE (who knows ?) to get your shots directly to your image service/customer/home server ?

    The direction is shown, I hope Phase and Hasselblad and all the others will understand. It is pretty much frightening to see how fast the so called consumer market devellops the technology which is missing on the Pro segment.

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    What is the point of this post in this thread?
    Is it just one that happens to be open?
    thanks
    -bob
    Bob:
    It was probably just to see where
    your end of tolerance is!

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebe View Post
    Bob:
    It was probably just to see where
    your end of tolerance is!

    Yup,
    reached it
    -bob

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hi Mike

    I know this is totally off topic (well maybe not completely as it illustrates the modular thought that is evolving with the iPhone now), but this is the next shock here - made by Fostex - a really nice audio module for the iPhone 4

    http://www.fostexinternational.com/d...ts/AR-4i.shtml

    This shows how easy it would be with an interface to extend existing technology. Tomorrows cameras must become like this, that´s for sure.
    So Ricoh´s attempt is probably a very clever one, especially with the Leica M module now. But - not very consequent as people who spent thousands on the lenses would have not bothered buying a full format chip/camera module for 2-3x the price of that small version now. Bad product placement, wrong customer research data.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    That's 1000% right on topic and another perfect example of how all things digital are in the constant process of integrating together.

    The M module from Ricoh makes sense too because it is one more step towards breaking down the boundaries that exist between camera brands. It is an example of how digital forces brands to integrate together....which will eventually lead to a point where it's difficult to tell any difference between brands at all.

  49. #149
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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Medium Format Systems and Digital Backs?

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    Re: The end of tolerances reached ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Medium Format Systems and Digital Backs?
    Yeah, the the end of tolerance as relates thereto?
    You are welcome to open a thread to that effect in the sunset bar.
    -bob

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