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The end of tolerances reached ?

fotografz

Well-known member
And while we discuss the future of possible camera concepts Sony has built it - Nex 7 for 1199 $:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/24/sony-unveils-nex-7-24-3-mp-sensor-oled-viewfinder-1199-price/

Looks like a small version of our HCam.(or does our HCam look like a large version of a nex ?).

much more technical data you´ll find here:

http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/blog/2011/08/sony-nex-7/ or use the google translate version
http://translate.google.de/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.systemkamera-forum.de%2Fblog%2F2011%2F08%2Fsony-nex-7%2F&act=url

Thanks Sony for proof of concept - the future is here (december 2011).

And I cannot resist adding this: The history of sony comes from a background of consumer orientation for innovative electronics.

regards
Stefan
It would be interesting to know the full statistical shift that has taken place in the photographic world in terms of users and buyers. The homogenization of image making, proliferation of image making tools, and access to viewing outlets like social sites and image hosting sites has obviously been a game changing occurrence.

So, for example as you mention above, Sony MUST innovate upwards as the consumer masses gravitate to the immediacy of smart phones like the iPhone5 with its 8 meg camera and the next Android SPs that most likely will jump that even further.

In the coming year, the mid-range area of cameras from all makers will be swarming with "must haves" and "can't live withouts" ... yet it begs the question ... to what end?

The paradigm shift I see is a lowering of standards in favor of "it's good enough and more fun to play with" ... camera as entertainment and unbridled immediacy, less of a tool of personal expression. In short, the balance between the art of photography and the tools has gone off kilter IMO. In general, the attribute of "imagination" has become the domain of the tool maker and less so of the image maker.

I think we now firmly reside in a "photographic technocracy" where the engineers, scientists and gamers are in control of the directional aspects of this field of creative endeavor, and for one main reason ... money, and lots of it. The consuming masses are like a wood chipper on steroids .... churning through innovation as fast as it's offered, then clamoring for more and more ... while producing more and more mediocrity. Nothing new there, just a LOT more of it .... a titanic Tsunami of swirling homogeneous white bread that has risen the image noise level to a deafening level.

What I've observed is that those with imagination, ideas and inspiration continue to have it, and those who don't, still don't. No matter how high the technology goes or how smart the device may be, the people who would be better off immersing themselves in the art of image making, are drowning in technology that dominates their time, energy and intelligence ... not to mention that all important bank account the makers love to tap into, and super-glue that tap into place like some sort of parasite that never quite kills its host but feeds on it endlessly ;)

-Marc
 
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Stefan Steib

Active member
What I've observed is that those with imagination, ideas and inspiration continue to have it, and those who don't, still don't.

-Marc

For gods sake : YES and this will stay like it forever. The only problem is that the industry tries to tell people that if they buy a 80Mpix or 200 Mpix or 10 Images per sec or Stainless Steel <GGG> body or a 1000mm lens or a 8 mm lens your pictures will be soooo much better.
Wrong - you will get better pictures because you have better ideas and nothing else. If those with the better ideas use the better tools the ones without the ideas look at this and think - oh if I can get these tools my pictures will also be like theirs.........

well - totally wrong ! But Psst - don´t say this too loud. ;.)))

Regards
Stefan
 

fotografz

Well-known member
For gods sake : YES and this will stay like it forever. The only problem is that the industry tries to tell people that if they buy a 80Mpix or 200 Mpix or 10 Images per sec or Stainless Steel <GGG> body or a 1000mm lens or a 8 mm lens your pictures will be soooo much better.
Wrong - you will get better pictures because you have better ideas and nothing else. If those with the better ideas use the better tools the ones without the ideas look at this and think - oh if I can get these tools my pictures will also be like theirs.........

well - totally wrong ! But Psst - don´t say this too loud. ;.)))

Regards
Stefan
... or a 24 meg Sony NEX or A77, or satellite controlled Nikon subject locator for the compositionally lazy .... etc. etc.

"Sorry Dave, I can't take that photograph. It doesn't conform to the ISO standards for international tastes as set forth by the Sonikon Corporation board of engineers". - HAL 9000

"Go #@*% yourself HAL!" - Dr. Dave Bowman


:ROTFL:

-Marc
 

mvirtue

New member
... or a 24 meg Sony NEX or A77, or satellite controlled Nikon subject locator for the compositionally lazy .... etc. etc.

"Sorry Dave, I can't take that photograph. It doesn't conform to the ISO standards for international tastes as set forth by the Sonikon Corporation board of engineers". - HAL 9000

"Go #@*% yourself HAL!" - Dr. Dave Bowman


:ROTFL:

-Marc
Thanks for the morning chuckle!
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
As about 60-70 %(maybe more) of humans on this planet are under 30 I guess this makes your choice a pretty personal and elite one, whereas other elites (mentioned before) will be the Apple geeks (I also have some of this ) or the hiphop generation (already over 25 now!) or the realist party infotainment generation (the actual young 15-25 ones).
Depends on which "world" of this planet you are speaking of:


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The dumbing down to make these idiot proof is killing me. The lost art is learning how to make the gear work for you not take over the control of your brain. Technology is great but only in the hands of people that take control of it. Not the other way around. I like turning stuff off so I can do it. Lol
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Dough

yes - but I think the photography I am speaking of is also happening on smartphones in India , China, Afrika and Brasil etc.pp.

And wait for some years and maybe the develloped and undevelloped statistics may switch also. Brasil has definitely a lot more young people and also a steady economic growth of around 1,5-2,5% for the last 10 years (exception 2009 see here http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/gdp-growth )
whereas countries like Japan and UK (not to speak of the US nobody knows what will happen next) have none now........

Regards
Stefan
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Mike M; ... but where exactly does all of this end? [/QUOTE said:
It doesn't.

The democratization of photography has just begun.

The image making tools will exponentially proliferate as smart phones explode across the face of the planet. Think everyone has one already? Not even close! But billions more will in the not to distant future.

With that, the hosting outlet sites will also explode, and people will use the universal language of imagery to communicate, express ideas, and foster homogeneous change. A "united white bread world" will not be accomplished politically, but instead socially ... and photography will be its voice ... which is already well on its way.

Consider this ...

This visual cacophony will become absolutely overwhelming (which I think it already has). Look for any given subject matter, and it isn't the individual that stands out, it is a thousand individuals with the one piece of good work they've shot, X 1,000 other individuals. This creates a truly intimidating wall of images that makes old concepts of individual mastery and talent more difficult to realize. It is the Borg concept coming to life before our very eyes.

As I mentioned, the engineers and gamers are now in charge ... their mission is proliferation and uniformity, their goal is profit and control. All things, for all people, available everywhere. This juggernaut is just getting going, and it is unstoppable.

The question then becomes ...

What's the individual to do? What is the outlet for one's work? Join the Borg or go your own way? Is resistance futile? At best, going one's own way will foster small enclaves of rebels who pat one another on their backs like we do here on GETdpi as we slowly become homogenized in our own white bread way.

What does the professional do? Will there even be a photographic profession in 10 years? Making money from photography has always been a bit difficult, however I don't think we have even seen the tip of the iceberg regarding this issue yet. While the image making craftsman dwindles, the roar of profitable makers and proliferators making Trillions of dollars is rising so fast we cannot even began to comprehend it.

My sunny forcast for the day ... :ROTFL:

-Marc

BTW, I think I'll sink my photo gear budget into cell phone tower company stocks :eek:
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
But Marc

there are also many more good photos taken worldwide than ever before.
I remember very well my excitement 30-20 years back when I was visiting Photokina and everytime one of my first walks was to the Polaroid both. There many of the best showed their creative stuff which was so much different from the "standard" nice images showcased in most photomagazines at that time. There was the Multimedia Hasselblad Multivisions definitely worth looking at, there was World press award as guests on the photokina and some more. But this was only happening all 2 years.
Today if I want to find outstanding images I go to........Flickr! I can do this any time, I have found some ways of taking up Ariadnes wool yarn and following favourites, most interesting or special groups you will find some of the best images you have ever seen - tons of creativity and lots of brain food for you and your future imaging.
For me This is the most positive experience in Photography since a long time. This may be frightening at first (especially for Pro Photographers who can directly see this tsunami of content facing you) but actually will free you to understand that you - and nobody else - need to make YOUR Images that are in YOUR head, let it out and join this wave of creativity.
No envy, no fear, just joy to see how much creativity this mankind can produce, we may seem doomed, we poison the planet and ruin the future of our children, but hey - something will stay and this is this multifold and endless and varying view to our world.

Too positive ? I don´t know, but I think that´s all we have.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

cng

New member
If I want inspirational imagery these days I look at graphic designers, especially on Behance:
http://www.behance.net/

Having said that, the Internet is generally nothing more than an oversized town square ruled by mob mentality and dominated by the lowest common denominator. We are all drowning in mediocrity. However, the gems you find make it worthwhile (sometimes).

There is a recent feature-length documentary that addresses creativity and the "democratization" of creativity in the digital age: Press Pause Play.
http://www.presspauseplay.com/

Go watch it, it's intelligent and well-made, although I disagree with some of the opinions expressed in it. It is also slightly focused on the music industry, but still interesting nonetheless.
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
But Marc

there are also many more good photos taken worldwide than ever before.
I remember very well my excitement 30-20 years back when I was visiting Photokina and everytime one of my first walks was to the Polaroid both. There many of the best showed their creative stuff which was so much different from the "standard" nice images showcased in most photomagazines at that time. There was the Multimedia Hasselblad Multivisions definitely worth looking at, there was World press award as guests on the photokina and some more. But this was only happening all 2 years.
Today if I want to find outstanding images I go to........Flickr! I can do this any time, I have found some ways of taking up Ariadnes wool yarn and following favourites, most interesting or special groups you will find some of the best images you have ever seen - tons of creativity and lots of brain food for you and your future imaging.
For me This is the most positive experience in Photography since a long time. This may be frightening at first (especially for Pro Photographers who can directly see this tsunami of content facing you) but actually will free you to understand that you - and nobody else - need to make YOUR Images that are in YOUR head, let it out and join this wave of creativity.
No envy, no fear, just joy to see how much creativity this mankind can produce, we may seem doomed, we poison the planet and ruin the future of our children, but hey - something will stay and this is this multifold and endless and varying view to our world.

Too positive ? I don´t know, but I think that´s all we have.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
Not sure I can agree with you Stefan. However, in a way you prove my point ;)

It all seems to be far to conventional for me. I don't see improvement or revolutionary ways of seeing, I see conformity to some sort of "competent" world standard.

That standard may have advanced to some eyes (mostly in competency), but it also is fast becoming homogenized into a grey mass of uniformity fostered by tonnage, availability and access. The revolution is in getting the stuff out there, not in what is getting out there. What is getting out there is generally and relentlessly vanilla at an ever increasing rate.

IMO, this affects tastes in photography where the conformed is lauded, and the truly fresh is ignored. The masses are now doing the voting, and they vote for that which they feel is most like what they THINK they are capable of, because it is ladened with hope for them.

I don't see proliferation as offering up brain food. I see it as a form of creative poison to be avoided. I look often, and see nothing inspiring like the first time I saw some of the innovators of photography work which rocked my world. To me this is a clear indication of lack of rather than growth of stunning new ways of thinking or seeing. It seems to me to be more of the same, except now it is a LOT more of the same.

Professional photography hasn't been immune to this either. As an Executive Creative Director of a major ad agency, I watched the bleeding death of creativity in commercial works over a period of years. If I received one empty portfolio or DVD a week I received 20 ... all competent and boringly uniform. Probably as much the fault of the ad industry as it is the fault of the photographic industry. The great inspirational Art Directors of advertising and editorial have gone the way of the Dodo.

What all this does do for me is inspire rebellion. While I may be a bit long in the tooth to do it myself ... I can grab fresh minds before they are polluted and as an art director at heart, try to instill that rebellion in them. Someone or a bunch of someones will break this log jam ... they always do.

It all feels so familiar. Classic painting trudges on and on until a Paul Cezanne shows up. Photography mimics painting until a Bresson shows up. THAT is the hope I have!

-Marc
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Marc

sorry for my frank words, but could it be, this creative job is getting you into the "been there, seen this, had this" bored art directors cycle mode ?
Maybe you are too strict , believe me there is plenty of meat on the bone.

look here:
http://whodesignedit.net/photography/photograph-time-michael-wesely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Gursky

http://www.kage-mikrofotografie.de/en/kage/

and so on.......

these topenders proof there is still something new every day.

I also see this more from a point of - what makes my photography correspond to other people. If they do not understand what I show , it may be pretty lonesome to be elite.

Please no insult , I have been there too ! But I changed my mind. It´s not the others who fail - it´s me who is not looking closely.

Regards
Stefan
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc

sorry for my frank words, but could it be, this creative job is getting you into the "been there, seen this, had this" bored art directors cycle mode ?
Maybe you are too strict , believe me there is plenty of meat on the bone.

look here:
http://whodesignedit.net/photography/photograph-time-michael-wesely

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Gursky

http://www.kage-mikrofotografie.de/en/kage/

and so on.......

these topenders proof there is still something new every day.

I also see this more from a point of - what makes my photography correspond to other people. If they do not understand what I show , it may be pretty lonesome to be elite.

Please no insult , I have been there too ! But I changed my mind. It´s not the others who fail - it´s me who is not looking closely.

Regards
Stefan
Thanks for the links, and platitudes. It actually is helpful to get this out in a pleasant and civilized discussion.

I don't think it has to do with elitism. Lonely? Perhaps. The breakout creative people were hardly viewed as elite until the rest of the world caught up with them ... mostly due to other vigilant people who actually could see their promise of a new vision. Photography has a rich tradition of this sort of synergism.

I'm also not saying that no one is doing anything worthy (who the heck am I to say that?). Obviously, there are those striving and doing.

My point is that they are buried under a ton of garbage. You see the pile of horse crap and say "Hey, there is a pony in here someplace!" I say "The Pony is IN the pile of crap, so put on your boots and gas mask and dig through the mountain of manure." :ROTFL: Instead we tend to pour perfume on the pile and call it something other than manure.

Plus, the pile doubles every day, and how much of it can you stand?

Am I jaded through over-exposure? Maybe. That is quite okay with me because if I've learned anything in all these years of creating, and mentoring other creative people, it is ... that any personal creative leap forward is often preceded by a gross dissatisfaction in what exists.

Rejection of the existing is a very strong pattern easily proved by the history of art. I believe it was Jasper Johns that came to a similar epiphany, and destroyed all of his work up until that time. Something I've suggested to a couple of photographers who have enormous potential to rock the world of photography with their unique eye on humanity, and expressions of divergent ideas ... but they are drowning in approval seeking from the masses ... a natural inclination of many creative people I might add. Very few quite get over hoping their Mom will tape their drawing to the 'fridge.

So, if the majority doesn't get it ... you may be on the right track. The trick is to get the stuff in front of the right discriminating eyes, not the world at large. That comes later.

I do agree that it need not be the failings of the photo universe, but more a failing of the individual to look closely. As a young artist, I forced myself to learn about Japanese art simply because I wasn't all that fond of it. Now it is a favorite. People don't know what they like, they like what they know.

Trouble is, I have looked and looked and find little to stimulate my humanity and love of aesthetic advancements that challenge preconceived subjectivity.

Far too many think that change comes from the evolving technology ... yet nothing has really changed. The more it changes the more it stays the same ... now in heaping helpings.

Perhaps we need to endure a neo-dadaists photographic movement so we can get on with it afterwards. :D

Anyway, good discussion.

-Marc
 

ustein

Contributing Editor
>We are all drowning in mediocrity.

Likely true but we may not agree what is "mediocrity" and what is not.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Marc

compliment back - good people hanging around here.

Uh- where to start - the pile of crap maybe needs to be there - it is neccessary to taste the unpleasant to dig for the truffel.
Hasn´t this been the case always - just the media and frequency changed ? I remember a sentence about a bluessinger who cannot sing the blues if he does not feel the pain, so maybe the rejection of a commercialized asthetics maybe the birth of real art ? So NO ART without CRAP ?

The dadaists were destroying the logical context of the medium using senseless fractions to create art, I think this fits very well in this discussion......;-)))

The photographic medium is dissolving now into Film/Video/Imaging/CGI
, the fractions collide in the internet and leave many people helpless and flattened. The need to have some orientation on aesthetics is just normal,
social medium like Flickr is perfect to read the mind of "the temporary stream" from the socialised to the artsy the whole spectrum is there.
This is what I like most. It is the REAL MOMA - the whole noise is part of it, like a beethoven symphony with plenty of instruments. But you still can hear the melody-better the chaos makes the melody.

I think this is the really interesting part why I am looking at this, from Mobile phone images to videos, ads, repros and family/baby pictures.
Did you ever try to repeat a simple and well known word so often that it starts to become phonetic-loosing it´s meaning ? I try to do this with these images and then suddenly something amazing happens- there is a lot of really valuable story telling content in this, maybe not in the single picture but in the whole stream.........

;-)

regards
Stefan


My point is that they are buried under a ton of garbage. You see the pile of horse crap and say "Hey, there is a pony in here someplace!" I say "The Pony is IN the pile of crap, so put on your boots and gas mask and dig through the mountain of manure." :ROTFL: Instead we tend to pour perfume on the pile and call it something other than manure.

Plus, the pile doubles every day, and how much of it can you stand?

So, if the majority doesn't get it ... you may be on the right track.

Trouble is, I have looked and looked and find little to stimulate my humanity and love of aesthetic advancements that challenge preconceived subjectivity.

Far too many think that change comes from the evolving technology ... yet nothing has really changed. The more it changes the more it stays the same ... now in heaping helpings.

Perhaps we need to endure a neo-dadaists photographic movement so we can get on with it afterwards. :D

Anyway, good discussion.

-Marc
 

Mike M

New member
I think Fotografz is right. Digital integration is building a global leviathan where everything is mediocre and homogenized. Democratic access is destroying the specialized roles that were necessary for individuality to exist.

The specialist is being replaced by the role-player (you-can-be-a-pro). Real expertise is being replaced by virtual simulation (DIY). Individuals are powerless while alone so they must form groups in order to survive (social-networking). Status within groups is determined by resemblances, strict adherence to customs, and loyalty to archetypes (genres-niches). Any deviation from standard practice is considered aberrant and treated as a threat to group cohesion (STFU-troll).

Young people carry less predispositions and this makes them better able to adopt new technologies. But each new medium creates a new public which means that entire generations become obsolete with the introduction of new product cycles. Today's twenty-somethings are tomorrow's thirty-somethings being replaced by today's teenagers. The younger generations aren't going to conquer the world. On the contrary, they are just another generation in a cycle waiting for it's own time of planned obsolescence.

Each successive generation that integrates into the digital leviathan becomes just another copy-of-a-copy and imitation-of-an-imitation. Eventually, they lose all ability to distinguish between a simulation and the real thing. The public already can't tell the difference between a role-player and an expert. The final result is always an obliteration of knowledge.
 
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